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DeepDish2
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 15 years, 2 days
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829935 - 08/19/03 01:50 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it is you who needs to reread the article. Click on the link again and take a careful look at how the title reads.
LOS ANGELES — A federal judge said Monday he will rule by midweek on an effort to postpone California's Oct. 7 election to recall Gov. Gray Davis (search) because some counties will use old punch-card voting machines (search).
Notice my title and yours differ in wording, in between (search). In your title the author is argueing that the ACLU is making a big deal out of the punch card machines because it is going to defranchise minorities, however, nowhere in the article does it say this. The actual ACLU arguement is "Most recently, the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California says voters in six counties would still be using the error-prone ballots if the recall is staged on Oct. 7." This comes directly from the article, and contains no mention of minorities. In fact the only place minorities are mentioned in the article is in this statment, " Fogel said issues raised by two civil rights groups need to be sorted out to make sure minorities are not disenfranchised as election clerks save money by opening fewer polling places and hiring fewer Spanish-speaking poll workers." This statement is seperate from the ACLUs proposition to uptdate voting machines, and deals with the language barriers of voting and polling.
My question is, did you actually read the article or just the title? If you had read both, you should have titled the thread "Sounds as if HE thinks minorities are too stupid to vote. (He being the original writer of the article).
Innvertigo: "I wonder why most libbies think that minorities aren't the same as the majority?" The next time you feel the need to make a statement as ingnorant and stupid as this one, at least TRY to back it up with some relevant information.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1829954 - 08/19/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dont forget about the thousands of elderly and thousands of handycaped who may have a hard time seeing a hanging chad. Should their votes be thrown out just because?
If they are handicapped in any way they can ask the pollsters for assistance, that's the law (ADA) and the pollster's job.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Innvertigo (08/19/03 02:21 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: DeepDish2]
#1830373 - 08/19/03 03:25 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you shouldn't assume people are that stupid. The article was copied and pasted on page one of this thread. My cut and paste was directly from the article. Why they would choose to alter it is a mystery to me. Write them and ask if you'd like. As shown in my previous paste this is how it read.... "LOS ANGELES ? California's high-stakes recall election has another court date Monday, when a federal judge is scheduled to hear arguments by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) that using outdated punch card machines (search) threatens to disenfranchise minorities." Read it as it originally was and you'll see "they" is quite correct. Like it or not, I merely pasted it.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830762 - 08/19/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let me try to summarize this argument to make progress:
Liberal: 3% of all voters who use punch card ballots leave a hanging chad, and since these punch cards are only being used in minority districts, it's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: Anyone who leaves a hanging chad is stupid.
Liberal: Whatever, but punch cards are only being used in minority disticts and that's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: You must think minorities are stupid then.
Just for the sake of argument, let's agree that people that leave hanging chads are stupid, and that 3% of the population doesn't deserve to have their votes counted. If every district in California used the punch cards, then it wouldn't be a racial issue. But since only the minority districts have their "stupid" votes eliminated, it's unfair to the people in those districts. Get it???
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830767 - 08/19/03 05:10 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where is the evidence that this is happening in minority districts? I heard somewhere that the old machines will affect 44% of the voters.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830810 - 08/19/03 05:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Worker 1 (chewing tabacco) - where do these machines go. Worker 2 (tugs on suspenders) - lets check the super secret minority area map. Worker 1 - yuhp.... that'll sure show them upity minorities. Worker 2 - afterwards, lets go drink some shine Worker 1 - hot damn, discrimination AND shine all in the same 2 hour work day Worker 2 - gotta love these here union jobs
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1830987 - 08/19/03 06:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: Where is the evidence that this is happening in minority districts? I heard somewhere that the old machines will affect 44% of the voters.
The old machines did affect 44% of the voters in the 2000 elections. California decertified these as "defective, obsolete, or otherwise unacceptable? and planned to phase them out by next regularly scheduled statewide elections. Since these elections are coming early, six counties (Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, Santa Clara, Solano, and Mendocino) with a disproportionate number of minorities still have them (source), meaning a disproportionate number of minorities' votes won't get counted. It doesn't mean white votes in those counties won't have the same thing happen to them, it means that a disproportionate number of minority votes won't get counted. Make sense yet???
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831036 - 08/19/03 07:00 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said:... Since these elections are coming early, six counties (Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, Santa Clara, Solano, and Mendocino) with a disproportionate number of minorities still have...it means that a disproportionate number of minority votes won't get counted.
Whites are not a majority in California. Based on the 2000 census numbers, whites (non-mixed race) in California now represent only 46.7 percent of the state's population. So which minorities are you referring to?
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831044 - 08/19/03 07:02 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good point!
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831087 - 08/19/03 07:18 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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What point? It still doesn't change the anything having to do with the arguemnet.And It's quite clear that by minorities he meant it on a national level,as in mainly blacks,hispanics,and asians. And why is it that anybody that is mixed race is automatically considered "not white" and usually given the title of the other race?
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
Edited by grandmasterfat (08/19/03 07:20 PM)
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: monoamine]
#1831099 - 08/19/03 07:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that is dishonest then. The election only effects those in CA. Why should they be called minorities if they aren't? Sure would be nice if eventually we could all just be people. I would not have had a problem with it, had they just said "Peoples votes aren't going to be counted and that is wrong." Instead it has to be yet another race issue.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831173 - 08/19/03 07:53 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does anyone here know what a minority is??? Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people. Edit: There are several different definitions of minority (see below). By some definitions whites are not a minority because whites are still the largest ethnic group; by other definitions it could mean less than 50%. I think it is clear which definition the ACLU was using.
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Edited by Cornholio (08/21/03 07:17 AM)
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831234 - 08/19/03 08:14 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: I would not have had a problem with it, had they just said "Peoples votes aren't going to be counted and that is wrong." Instead it has to be yet another race issue.
THANK YOU shakta for making that excellent point! That's exactly what the original article that lds posted DID SAY! He had to refer to another article by the ACLU when he realized his bashing of minorities had nothing to do with the original article. (I'm giving you another red angry face lds, since those seem to annoy you ) But since he then changed the argument to attack the ACLU's position, and ignored the position of his original article, I still defend it by saying that minorities are disproportionately represented in the counties that are using the defective ballots, and therefore are having their votes disproportionately cut. (I'm using the political definition of minority, not the one that got us sidetracked). And you're right, it shouldn't have anything to do with minorities. But since this happens to affect counties with a disproportionately large number of minorities, that means that a disproportionately high number of minority votes will not be counted.
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Edited by Cornholio (08/19/03 08:21 PM)
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831248 - 08/19/03 08:17 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Does anyone here know what a minority is??? Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people.
minority. 1. the lesser part or smaller number; less than half of a total: opposed to majority. (source: Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831273 - 08/19/03 08:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Whites are not a majority in California. Based on the 2000 census numbers, whites (non-mixed race) in California now represent only 46.7 percent of the state's population. So which minorities are you referring to?
Quote:
Does anyone here know what a minority is???
Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people.
To all those who have never lived in California you have NO clue... When I drive to my down town I am thrown into another world, signs are NOT writen in english and usualy I am the ONLY white guy around....
Come to California some time and youll see. Their are towns and their are Cities. The majority of towns people are white which makes up a LARGE number of the population but go to ANY City and its hard to find the white people..
If youve never lived in a major city whith ghettos and urban ethnic areas or if your a non resident of California who watches the news you should stay out of this thread cuz you just have NO fucking clue.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831290 - 08/19/03 08:31 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting. I checked my own Webster's dictionary before I made the post, and I checked Webster's online, and neither had that definition.
Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring. We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1831330 - 08/19/03 08:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was born in Los Angeles, have spent over 45 years in the state and watched the quality of life plummet under the Democrats. Businesses have left, taxes have gone up (especially 'sin' taxes), propositions have been nullified by government employees through legal maneuvers, and the Governor has refused to represent the people of the state by standing up to the Feds over the medical marijuana issue. It is time for a serious house-cleaning.
Here's a question for you, Did you know that tax payers dollars are being used to fund anti-recall efforts?
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831345 - 08/19/03 08:47 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring.
You are guilty of the typical liberal tactic of re-definition of terms to suit your purposes.
Quote:
We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
Then the ACLU is also guilty of the typical liberal tactic of re-definition of terms to suit their purposes. The fact remains that there is no racial majority in California - there are only minorities. Your ignorance of the situation does not advance your arguments.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831375 - 08/19/03 08:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Interesting. I checked my own Webster's dictionary before I made the post, and I checked Webster's online, and neither had that definition. Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring. We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
I don't think it is a red herring at all. So you are saying that even if the minorities outweigh the majority they are still minorities? WTF? Drive an hour south and you will understand that the minorities aren't minorities everywhere anymore. :rant: I am just sick of all this racial bullshit. This is off topic I know. I read the same article that stated minorities were being singled out basically. That is the basis for the argument anyway. It is bullshit, and the lawyer uses it to make everyone think they are racists if they don't agree with him. He is using it as a red herring. I am not going to overgeneralize here, but a LOT of liberals tend to play the race card when it has no place. The Dems in Texas are doing it, and their argument makes no sense at all. We are all people. None of us deserve special treatment. No one alive today has owned slaves and no one has stolen land from the native americans. I don't owe anyone shit for something my ancestors MAY have done. If you are a 'disenfranchised minority', quit feeling sorry for yourself, get off your ass, get a fucking job, and buy the crap you want. I am not saying there is no racism in America, or that very bad things haven't happened in the past. I am saying that as long as a group of people use something as an excuse, they will never overcome. This poor me mentality has infected our entire population. Note to everyone. The world doesn't owe you shit! If you want to be successful you have to work for it. So, you may have a disadvantage or two. Suck it up and you will be better for it. I could whine and complain about plenty of stuff. My parents got divorced when I was 3. My Dad has been an addict my whole life. I had to overcome a major substance abuse problem. My family wasn't that well off. Big fucking deal. Everyone has shit that they have to overcome. Winners figure out a way to do it, while losers sit and bitch about it. :end rant:
Edited by shakta (08/19/03 09:12 PM)
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831387 - 08/19/03 09:05 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly!
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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