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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Registered: 04/17/03
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In Memory of...
    #1825530 - 08/18/03 10:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Just the other day, I posted a link:  The Medical Aspects of Crucifixion.


Here is the  source  again.


The belief reflects love and forgiveness...  yet it is symbolized by the cross: one of the most horrific ways to die.



Why is it that this would become on of the mojor symbols of Christianity?

Was the intent to keep the symbol in our minds so that we may understand why we are allowed to suffer now?



I mean..  Its like taking your brother/sister/parents/friends  and putting them up on display in a barbaric way while "teaching" true love and compassion and forgiveness 'n stuff...


[/* This'll show'em how ta luv *\]


:oogle:


 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1825577 - 08/18/03 11:18 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I agree.. Christianity is a bunch of bullshit anyways.. just nod your head and say amen when they ask and you'll do fine.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: nubious]
    #1825598 - 08/18/03 11:31 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> Why is it that this would become on of the mojor symbols of Christianity

I always felt that it was a play on guilt. If people feel guilty about the suffering that Jesus went through on our behalf, then it is easier for the church to control those people by lessening their guilt.

> Christianity is a bunch of bullshit anyways.. just nod your head and say amen when they ask and you'll do fine.

I don't think Christianity has a monopoly on this...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Seuss]
    #1825751 - 08/18/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

> Why is it that this would become on of the mojor symbols of Christianity

I always felt that it was a play on guilt. If people feel guilty about the suffering that Jesus went through on our behalf, then it is easier for the church to control those people by lessening their guilt.




this is mostly likely the hidden reasoning behind why leaders of the aforementioned organization chose such a sybology...but if you were to ask any of the followers they'll tell ya it's a symbol of God's unequaled love for humanity, and then likely start spouting off some scripture they've been programmed to say if ever such an occasion were to arrive

(and for all you christians out there who are about to flame the hell out of me for my opionions...first think about whether or not you imeadiately thought of which passage I was refferring too, and then consider that while making whatever comments you feel obligated to make)


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1825872 - 08/18/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Why do christians wear crosses?
Do they think that Jesus wants to see a fuckin cross when he comes back, man?
Maybe thats why he hadnt shown up yet!
'They're still wearin crosses Dad, fuck it, I aint going. They totally missed the point!'
Thats like goin up to Jackie O'nassis with a rifle pendant on!"

-Bill Hicks


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1826071 - 08/18/03 02:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

maybe its like the ying yang
jesus is the love
and the cross is the hate

opposites, jesus = light
cross = darkness


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get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineFunguy
Homo SapiensEntheogenous
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1826168 - 08/18/03 02:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Some Christians don't like wearing crosses around their neck either, it's like wearing a little electric chair.
The Cross that we wear does not symbolize hate, it symbolizes that God loved us enough to have his son die a horrible death for us to live. Ironically, today's cross is a symbol of love, not hate (unless you belong to the KKK).


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Funguy]
    #1827395 - 08/18/03 07:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

isnt that the same story as some other religious figure? Was it abraham? He sacrificed his son? Doesnt it seem a little un original to copy the same activity. God v.s. Jesus... Abraham v.s his Son. Is one the glorified version of the holy name, and the other... the eartly concept?

I have scars... in memory of... hardships. I think some people wear crosses, and have no idea why they wear them. These are the "christians" you have to watch out for :wink:.


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What?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1827655 - 08/18/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'd say the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ is one of the most focused aspects of his life when it comes down to Christians and their remembrance of God. It is a symbol; of a love that is a fire, burning for humanity.


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
as above, so below
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Zahid]
    #1827737 - 08/18/03 09:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I have a question, was this sacrafice all that great if he knew that his son would be with him in heaven for the rest of eternity? I mean some mortal pain would be nothing compared to heaven forever, right?


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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1827772 - 08/18/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think he had to be forsaken by God for those three days or something...didn't he go to hell for those three days and on the third day didn't he win the keys of hell or something? I remember some sunday school story along those lines...


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


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Offlinefalcon
In the green

Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1827775 - 08/18/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

maybe its like the ying yang



Before christianity it meant the same as the ahnk, the balance of male and female or some slop like that. So pretty much it was yin and yang.
edit meant to say ankh which is a dibble. A dibble is something you poke holes in the ground to plant seeds.
Carry your ankh to remind you to poke holes and plant your seed. Ensuring eternal life or some slop like that.


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?




Edited by falcon (08/18/03 10:48 PM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1827907 - 08/18/03 10:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

*shrugs* Dunno. What do you think?


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: neutralizer]
    #1834003 - 08/20/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"...didn't he go to hell for those three days and on the third day didn't he win the keys of hell or something?"
----------------------


Nice observation...

That idea has travelled through my mind a few times.

It does seem like a reasonable concept..

As he came closer to the "Hell", it was more readily reflected by the physical environment around Him. An end such as His would no doubt feel as if the Hell was ALL around !!!

He knew that getting to Hell would be a rough ride...

Sometimes you do things you don't really want to because you have others to think about.

In my opinion, It was an honourable sacrifice he chose to follow through with.

...And for that, He solidified a wonderful friendship with trust! His end of the bargain was completed. He will not be forgotten nor left behind !



--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1838502 - 08/21/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"I have a question, was this sacrafice all that great if he knew that his son would be with him in heaven for the rest of eternity? I mean some mortal pain would be nothing compared to heaven forever, right?"
-----------------------------


I would agree with you.



I'd say, the sacrifice was the volunteering to be "exterminated" on the part of Jesus...  It was His decision to do what no one else dared to commit to.  It was, perhaps, a necessary step to get to where He really wanted to go.

He did so, because He was on a mission...  A "reconnaissance"  mission if you will...  Which he completed with absolute success !

While multi-tasking, He left behind evidence...  A series of events which were intended to remain within a potential, until the time was right for them to properly unfold.

Evidently, it was not for the purpose to exterminate...

His mission was to go deep and save the ones who have become lost,  and point them in the right direction for the purpose of escape.

Escape from where?  That's another thread... another time.

:lipsrsealed:


 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1838799 - 08/21/03 10:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I don't like putting myself in a position to say what god thinks or what he should do BUT,

if you were GOD, wouldn't you just forgive people for their sins instead of setting up this system where your sons died for your sins?

As aforementioned, I think it may be a guilt trip or scare tactic. I once saw a comic strip where a preacher was praying to God for strength and wisdom to keep people from going astray and suffering eternal hellfire. God replies "Actually, you guys made that hell thing up and I wish you would stop using it." The preacher then says "NO WAY, it is working very well for us and we cannot get rid of it"


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: In Memory of... [Re: SpecialEd]
    #1841235 - 08/22/03 05:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"...wouldn't you just forgive people for their sins instead of setting up this system where your sons died for your sins?"
--------------------


I guess you have to look "in between the lines" so to speak.. To come up with a possible why..

This place we are in, it includes a combination of wonders and horrors...

This system does exist... So it had to have been set up in the manner that it has been.. [/ouch.. nice way to run a circle around the point...]



Lemme try this..



Suppose Heaven was a place where YOU could have the freedom to do almost anything you wanted to do.. [Forgiveness seems to be the ultimate concept... Given enough "time", you can forgive even the most tragic of sins... ie- Time heals ALL wounds.. So, I'd say, forgiveness is the final step in ANY event.]

Getting back to the freedom... Suppose you excercised your freedom and created something [That could very well be, because, here, in this body that you have, you already possess the freedom to make anything within your mind happen through visualization]..

.. And because you were not a perfect expert concerning creation, something went wrong... You were only "playing around" anyways.. But often, if you play with fire, while inexperienced, you get burned.

Let's say it endangered your existance because what you have created was real big and too complex for you to handle.

So now, you'd be stuck within your own creation... trapped.. lost..

Many would surely try a rescue attempt.. But what if they got trapped in the process as well..

You'd then need the assistance of a real "expert" to bail you out... Perhaps even at the cost of making a volunteered sacrifice.


Once out, no matter what has happened, surely you can be forgiven for your mistake... There'd be no way you'd endanger yourself like that on purpose !



Now, I'm playing around with this idea of creation by extrapolating it from what we already do in our heads at our presently perceived small scale.


Since this place we are in appears to be full of exceptions and seemingly possible flaws, what if it was not a "Perfect" being that created it.. rather, a less-than-perfect entity?



The Perfect being would in now way feel threatened by your imperfections.. So you'd be allowed to "play" as you like.

You learn from your mistakes anyways [Well.. you're supposed to..]...


A parent who gives their child freedom expects that the child will get hurt in the process; but still allows it as it is a leaning experience. If the child gets in too deep, because that parent was observing with a watchful eye, the child will get a certain amount of help along the way.

This dosen't mean the child is any less loved... It is a method of giving a sense of independance during the learning phase.





--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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