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OfflineMasterElectron
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: botanicalbishop]
    #18241075 - 05/10/13 12:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:confused:What I was asking was if you used the strainer instead of tipping the tub, Would you just let the bulk of the water drip off, say like 10-15 min for a strainer full? I've gone through your seed tek here and there's not a "time" for draining in strainer....guess the tub works as good but I figured strainer would make it easier on me and probly a little quicker on the drain. Thank you so much for your share brother. :thumbup:

:confused:Also the other question on tips for large spawn bags, since the seed is smaller can I say put 5Qts in a bag and PC for 60min or should I stick to 2+hrs? Or what if I chose to put like 10-25Qt or what ever would be maximum I guess. I need 10 qts per bag ATM, and would like to use as few containers as possible ATM thats all I need, Although if I could get 10qt in a bag and fit 2 in my PC at once. That would be great for me and my PC hating wife...not to mention tring to synchronize scooby-doo movies with my PC schedule for my ever curious "mini me" lol at that " what's that" and "whatcha do with that dad". so if I could knock out 2 at once or even one 10Qt in say 1 hr that would be awesome.

:stoned:Im currently burning the strain "king kong" and he's definitely kicking my ass!, so if I haven't said thank you then thank you!, all of you!


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:goat:

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OfflineSpiral Climber
Happy Farmer


Registered: 02/16/13
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: MasterElectron]
    #18241194 - 05/10/13 12:50 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Violet I've followed your RGS tek to the T and inoculated with MS syringes. 4 containers out of 6 have started colonizing, no contam. Higher success rate than my rye grain batches so far :smile: Also inoculated another 3 containers with tampanensis agar wedges...:thumbup:

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Offlinebotanicalbishop
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Spiral Climber]
    #18241689 - 05/10/13 04:13 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spiral Climber said:
Thanks Violet I've followed your RGS tek to the T and inoculated with MS syringes. 4 containers out of 6 have started colonizing, no contam. Higher success rate than my rye grain batches so far :smile: Also inoculated another 3 containers with tampanensis agar wedges...:thumbup:




Sclerotia forming species yield more using rye berries, also its a pain trying to clean the grass seed off them, just something to consider


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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinenksfo5
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: botanicalbishop]
    #18241710 - 05/10/13 04:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

lots of detail and description, lots to think about and consider

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OfflineSpiral Climber
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: botanicalbishop]
    #18241790 - 05/10/13 05:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I use RGS containers to fruit tampanensis not for scletoria production I heard it works well

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Spiral Climber]
    #18241800 - 05/10/13 05:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

@ violet

Will have to read through this thread later, I only had time to skim. I didn't see any mention of using brown rice as a grain, and it's definitely one of my favorites. Prepare just like RR's tek, but wash it a little more thoroughly during the soak and use soap. Without using soap on BRG, you can't shake it because the starch will pool.

BRG is half the cost of rye berries for me. Not as cheap as wild bird seed, but 100% worth a couple more pennies on the pound imo.


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I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

Edited by maug (05/10/13 05:40 AM)

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Offlinebotanicalbishop
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Spiral Climber]
    #18241823 - 05/10/13 05:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Spiral Climber said:
I use RGS containers to fruit tampanensis not for scletoria production I heard it works well



Do you use isolates or ms? just wondering cuz my atl7 syringe is low and i need to fruit some of these bad boys


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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln

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Offlinebotanicalbishop
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: maug]
    #18241841 - 05/10/13 05:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
@ violet

Will have to read through this thread later, I only had time to skim. I didn't see any mention of using brown rice as a grain, and it's definitely one of my favorites. Prepare just like RR's tek, but wash it a little more thoroughly during the soak and use soap. Without using soap on BRG, you can't shake it because the starch will pool.

BRG is half the cost of rye berries for me. Not as cheap as wild bird seed, but 100% worth a couple more

Will have to read through this thread later, I only had time to skim. I didn't see any mention of using brown rice as a grain, and it's definitely one of my favorites. Prepare just like RR's tek, but wash it a little more thoroughly during the soak and use soap. Without using soap on BRG, you can't shake it because the starch will pool.

BRG is half the cost of rye berries for me. Not as cheap as wild bird seed, but 100% worth a couple more pennies on the pound imo.




Violet mentions that the number of inoculation points is vastly greater for grass seed than any other subs so it out weighs the cost. Not that its that expensive i can get a premium 50lbs of it for 25usd or 37usd if i go to wally world instead of the feed store


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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln

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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: maug]
    #18241968 - 05/10/13 06:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

maug said:
@ violet
I didn't see any mention of using brown rice as a grain





annie has ya covered,
whole brown rice works fine .




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:aliendance:

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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: anne halonium]
    #18241980 - 05/10/13 07:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

In mushroom cultivation, its all about economy. You want to run the cheapest grain with the biggest (inoculation point) bang for your buck. Realistically any grain can be used, as long as you can still shake it post PC'ing. I heard of excellent results with millet, however it was cost prohibitive, when compared to rye.


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1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.

Edited by Sillyputty67 (05/10/13 07:03 AM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18242003 - 05/10/13 07:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Rice, Indeed!
I only mention it once in-passing:
Quote:

Violet said:
Grass seed's properties seem to really streamline the mycelium's ability to soak up and move water around. Rice is right with it, interestingly.



Other grains aren't far behind, but I think we all realize how absorptive rice is!

From what little I've seen in-person so far, rice is an excellent substrate for straight-fruiting. However it's a terrible (starchy, clumpy, etc) expansion source, and each grain is much larger than grass seed, so I've been sticking with large bags of grass seed for now.
More rice fruiting in the future!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisiblemaug
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18243046 - 05/10/13 11:50 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You have to get the moisture content right before hand. Rice will absorb more than it needs, but only if you let it. I think the right ratio was about 3/4 cups water per 2 cups grain, after a soak/rince. I remember it was about half of the maximum it could possibly hold. It should be chewable, but not soft/fun to eat. And no split grains. The inside has a lot of sugars, and brown rice more than most grains. If the grain splits, it's kinda like not washing off the starch. If you have too much water or you didn't wash off the starch, you need to shake up the grains while the jars are still warm. This can save a jar when it's clearly soggy/wet. You can also try shaking it a little more gently than just wacking it against a office chair arm or tire.

With smaller batches (4+/- cups of dry rice), I was able to get perfect moisture content by steaming. No straining, stirring, or drying. The wider the pan, the more you can make this way without it pooling in the bottom and ruining moisture content. Just had to bring it to a boil, stir once, cover, turn off the heat, and leave it for 30-40 minutes. Not a big hassle when the PC is already being used anyways.


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I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

Edited by maug (05/10/13 11:56 AM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: maug]
    #18243129 - 05/10/13 12:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Great option is my boiling-water-pour prep for rice just like grass seed, but you can use a bit more water too.
Perfect moisture. Full absorption just from that so it's even easier and more assured than grass seed is this way.

I'd be wary of messing around with rice in jars, gets troublesome for a few reasons. However as a final fruiting sub it's perfect for the very same reasons.
If you're growing with methods anywhere near the ones presented as this tek, as they're the only ones on-topic, and grass seed is the only thing worth putting in jars as stated, and for that matter you can use tall plastics instead of quart jars just the same or better (with good clean tech)


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18243157 - 05/10/13 12:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I was very apprehensive about cracked corn, but the apprentice pulled it off. Its all about achieving that exact moisture content. Rice seems too starchy/sticky for my liking, but if you polish the tek, should work just fine.

One dude on here was fruiting Cordyceps directly on rice. Freeking amazing.


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1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Sillyputty67]
    #18243418 - 05/10/13 01:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cordyceps will fruit on strange stuff... :lol:




:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Invisibleb plus Happy Birthday!

Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18246577 - 05/11/13 02:06 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not trying to refute what you are doing here. I think it's a wonderful method that I will eventually try myself. I just find it hard to jump right onto the bandwagon when every TC/reputable grower on the forums use/recommend bulk substrates:shrug: And then that got me thinking, why do commercial growers use bulk substrates if this method is so much more time/cost effective?

My only issue is a 50lb bag of Rye Seed costs around $40 at a local feed store. A 40lb bag of WBS costs me $15 at lowes. Horse manure is free. I'm not sure I could find any way to make this method cheaper than my current hpoo bulk method. In the end, It would cost me twice the amount to theoretically gain a larger yield.

Edited by b plus (05/11/13 02:25 AM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: b plus]
    #18247005 - 05/11/13 06:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for your statements/questions, I wondered when someone would voice such a thought.
Of course TCs and reputable growers have recommended bulk subs.
Until now, straight-grain teks did not tie much less surpass bulk subs since none of them took advantange of grain's flush capacity via application of proper hydration.
How long has this option for Cubensis and other Psilo exotics even been openly known so far? Not long.

It's worth noting that several of said TCs, as well as some 'old hands', seem to be fans of this writeup! Which is great!


As for why commercial growers use bulk substrates… what are those commercial growers growing? Remember you're talking about gourmet edibles. Almost ALL of them besides Agaricus require wood substrates, and Agaricus has particular sub needs as well, which effectively means they 'require' their bulk substrates.
Shiitake, for instance, cannot grow on such a nutrient-rich grain substrate without intense mutation.



50lb seed for $40 doesn't sound like an 'issue' to me. I'd definitely pay that price for seed. As said before, it out-runs other grains by that margin or more by far when using as an expansion source. I feel it has that value as a straight substrate as well.
Sure you could buy a lot more initial dry weight in other grains for the same cash but it doesn't mean you've bought more value. One kilo of grass seed has 3x-6x the actual grains and surface area of any other grain.

Even if you use a cheaper grain for this tek, not grass seed, you'll do better than that same grain in bulk sub. This tek isn't ABOUT grass seed. It's about grain and a particular straight-grain technique, where it happens that grass seed finds itself as king, and grass seed is used for the lead-up to it since it's uncommonly used and other preps are difficult to master or produce an inferior sub.


Sure manure is free. But, you can't easily and optimally grow mushrooms with it alone if at all. Using it draws away from the flushing power of your grain! It is literally wasting your grain! Using manure/coir/verm lowers possible yield. So forget that it's free. It is a huge energy expense and a yield detriment.


… not to mention, potency is a bit blasé by comparison…
So, for me, if straight-grain only tied what it could do in bulks, I'd still use straight grain! Of course; a tied yield still means a greater 'yield' from the grains in Psilos (if done as presented), and the bulk requires long heat treatment and another colonizing run just for the sake of initial water presence when we know that the mycelium can uptake and migrate that water gradually instead with no heat treatment.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (05/11/13 07:02 AM)

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Offlinebassclef
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18247186 - 05/11/13 07:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

so i inoculated 16 p5 containers of RGS on 4/17 from MS syringe.  As of today 5/11 one is around 99% colonized with several others not far behind.  The redboy seemed to not want to germinate on RGS very well.  It took a very very long time, while the same syringe germinated on Rye in 5 days.  2 of the 16 containers just never did anything.  Both from the redboy MS syringe. 

During that time i've built myself a grow house and will see how things go.  so far pretty good!  Dont know if i'll continue with RGS but i'll surely be using the p5 containers more.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: bassclef]
    #18247820 - 05/11/13 11:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)


To any peeps that are trying out this technique:

1. Wanna see your experiments and results! Don't be shy!

2.
It should be clear, but I'll say it over and over again… don't expect my results unless you do my practise or find something that works the same or better.

Please do yourself a favor and allow some solid consolidation time before casing and fruiting.
This process eliminates 1-3 weeks from other methods that the culture would otherwise have as a head-start for consuming the grain.
These straight grains require some real chewing before the mycelium will be able to flush hardy. This is for the same reason that the grain has such recurring flush capacity.
If you introduce them into fruiting and prompt them to fruit before they're maxed out on readiness, the results could possibly seem quite dwindling and discouraging since the mycelium will have expended itself in fruiting without having gotten to a point where it could do its best. May lead to earlier contamination also.

A case-in-point:


Although these first-flush yields aren't bad, they're not as good as the same culture has done on other cakes.
This is because they were cased and set to fruit only a weekish after fully-colonized, and that colonization only took 3 days, as displayed in this thread.
Inoc 4/19, cased and set into FC around 4/30, harvest today 5/11. Not a bad first-go for 3 weeks but not indicative of their capability.

They simply haven't had enough time. Others introduced as early or earlier had even less impressive first results. In the past for me, some that went this way even contamm'd during second flush, which would be quite disheartening if you didn't know how you caused/allowed such a thing!

If you're in a hurry for drugs or something, leave this thread and go order some Chinese research chemicals.

Let these containers take their time before introducing. Best results don't come rushed. If you want regular harvest (beyond the perpetual harvest from these!) then do cycling grows like anyone else so that their individual delays are irrelevant.

________________________________________________________



Bassclef:
Can't blame any particular variety, nor the seed, only your particular syringe's contents.
I love Redboy, and so happen to have some multi-spore Redboy getting started fruiting on GS as well.

Hope they work out for you! Post results!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (05/11/13 11:36 AM)

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Invisibleb plus Happy Birthday!

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 928
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18248137 - 05/11/13 12:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well that just about wraps it up for me. I guess the only real reason I'm holding back is because I've purchased over 130 quart jars in the last half a year. If I was to make the transition to this method, would there be any myco related use for those jars anymore?


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:mushroom2:-Reishi Grow-:mushroom2:
:mushroom2:-Grey Oyster Grow-:mushroom2:

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