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InvisibleSwami
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Respecting all spiritual beliefs
    #1824248 - 08/17/03 11:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, but I do not see how this is possible. One may respect the person behind the belief which is totally different than respecting the belief.

Seeker 1: We have but one life on this planet.

Seeker 2: We have walked on this earth many times and will again.

Forgetting the paradox doublespeak for a moment where we are all correct (I don't buy that!), either Seeker 1 is wrong and Seeker 2 is right; or Seeker 1 is right and Seeker 2 is wrong; or both seekers are wrong. This is basic logic folks and not a Swami opinion. Yet some here would have you pat both seekers on the back and say "Yes, you are correct." Not out of respect as they claim, but out of the social fear of offending anyone at any time.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinewavesoflight
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824344 - 08/17/03 11:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The first part of your post was "fact"; however, the second part was where the Swami opinion came into play(the part about the social fear). Dont post much, mainly a lurker but I most always appreciate your thoughts! peace
EDIT- Do you think one can respect a spiritual belief while not agreeing with it?


Edited by wavesoflight (08/17/03 11:40 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: wavesoflight]
    #1824380 - 08/17/03 11:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If you sincerely believe in religion A, then you must believe that religion B is false.

So would you not think that those who believed in religion B were fools? Would you not think that they had been duped?

If you're open to the idea that their beliefs may hold as much validity as yours, do you really believe then, or are you an agnostic?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: wavesoflight]
    #1824417 - 08/18/03 12:01 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

however, the second part was where the Swami opinion came into play(the part about the social fear).
Agreed. *Retracts armchair psychoanalysis* :smile:

Do you think one can respect a spiritual belief while not agreeing with it?
I would like to hear your definition of "respecting a belief". I find it hard to accept things with no substance nor proof. Astrology for example; not only fails objective tests, but is based on false assumptions and even more importantly; is NOT internally consistent.

To reiterate, I find any teachings that are not internally consistent to be nonsensical; i.e. if they don't even agree with themselves; then how can I? The Bible directs an "eye for an eye" and states at the same time that "Thou shalt not kill!" Well which is it?
 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824463 - 08/18/03 12:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

ok....so you're not a relativist. welcome to the world of being a tiny bit un pc.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824557 - 08/18/03 12:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yet some here would have you pat both seekers on the back and say "Yes, you are correct."




just because you respect something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.


--------------------
Namaste.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Malachi]
    #1824559 - 08/18/03 12:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"If you sincerely believe in religion A, then you must believe that religion B is false."

It is a mistake to say that bigotry and faith are intertwined. Although some bigots may profess faith, the truly faithful would have no use for bigotry. Bigotry is a product of fear, and the faithful fear nothing.

As for me I consider myself a believer of sorts and I find great fascination in studying all religions without predjudice. I consider them all to be different cultural manifestations of some all encompassing force. I sincerely believe that all the worlds culture worship the same god, they just have different languages and literature and ritual surrounding said worship.




--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824568 - 08/18/03 12:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Both are correct on certain levels. It's hard to explain, but the truth is a lot more complex than we can comprehend.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinewavesoflight
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Malachi]
    #1824575 - 08/18/03 01:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Ohhhh an armchair, my body needs one of those (maybe I should post more I cant seem to post a damn icon). Anyways, when I say "respect" I am meaning to say that I concede that their opinion has a basis based on their experiences, as does mine, and due to that it is just valid as my interpretation. For example, someone reads and interprets the bible consequently believing that once they die there is an "after life/heaven" awaiting them. They are putting forth a belief that is really just as plausable as my particular belief about life after death, or lack there of, as mine is again based on my experiences. For that reason, I "respect" their belief. So maybe respect isnt the best word choice! peace


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824892 - 08/18/03 02:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

And Swami you forgot to mention that many spiritual beliefs actually encourage you to not respect others' beliefs if they are different.. which naturally makes it harder


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinewavesoflight
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Strumpling]
    #1824915 - 08/18/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Unfortunately that is all too true. Raised as a Catholic I was taught so much "acceptance" and at the same time was being taught to basically close many people and ideas out from myself. ahhh, nothing like bathing yourself in ignorance!


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824916 - 08/18/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"i.e. if they don't even agree with themselves; then how can I? The Bible directs an "eye for an eye" and states at the same time that "Thou shalt not kill!" Well which is it?"
-----------------------------


Well..  An eye for an eye is not a leg and an arm for an eye..  It is refering to an equilibrium principle...

Thou shalt not kill... an obvious statement.. 

You have to consider also, the timeframe in which these were written.

Those were some BARBARIC times...  The killing reference was in the Old Testament...  An extremely rough time...


Even in the times of the New Testament, when Jesus was around, things were rather cruel...

Wanna see just how cruel?  Ok then... 

Look here...


This is how they treated Him...  No wonder retaliation was allowed to happen !!!


They don't teach this in Bible School...  :eek:


:lipsrsealed:




   


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1824965 - 08/18/03 03:34 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"Forgetting the paradox doublespeak for a moment where we are all correct (I don't buy that!), either Seeker 1 is wrong and Seeker 2 is right; or Seeker 1 is right and Seeker 2 is wrong; or both seekers are wrong. This is basic logic folks and not a Swami opinion."

How can anybody really say what is what? I don't think anyone is 100% that their belief is correct (or else it wouldn't be a belief). Since no one can really 100% say for sure that this certain belief is correct, then how can you say what's right and what's wrong?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: kaiowas]
    #1824969 - 08/18/03 03:38 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

then how can you say what's right and what's wrong?

Where do you come up with that? Are you reading a post in a parallel universe?

Reincarnation and non-reincarnation cannot both be true, yet some here think the appropriate posture is to respect both beliefs when one or both is OBVIOUSLY wrong.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Swami]
    #1824991 - 08/18/03 03:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not saying that one of them isn't wrong, simple logic shows this. Maybe an example would help convey my point. Say a person believes they only have one life. Now I know that while they do have this belief, they really can't say that a person who believes in reincarnation is wrong because that person really isn't 100% definately sure that there is only one life. Yes one of them is wrong, but who's to really say that one is wrong and the other is right. I think that's where the respect comes in.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinewavesoflight
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: kaiowas]
    #1825003 - 08/18/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

thats basically what I was saying.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: kaiowas]
    #1825006 - 08/18/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"Yes one of them is wrong, but who's to really say that one is wrong and the other is right. I think that's where the respect comes in."

It kind of rasises the question: If nobody can be 100% sure, then why are they claiming to know the answers?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (08/18/03 03:56 AM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Phluck]
    #1825041 - 08/18/03 04:14 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"It kind of rasises the question: If nobody can be 100% sure, then why are they claiming to know the answer."

Exactly! On this board at least I see more people sharing ideas than making claims (but yes I have seen some make claims). I think the question should be raised everytime a belief is stated, but at the same time don't say that the belief is wrong. Take the ideas in rather than the belief and even then some ideas won't work for some people. After all, everyone has an unique perspective.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: Phluck]
    #1825650 - 08/18/03 12:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

It kind of rasises the question: If nobody can be 100% sure, then why are they claiming to know the answers?



Maybe their answers are based on personal experience. Mine often are.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Respecting all spiritual beliefs [Re: silversoul7]
    #1825703 - 08/18/03 12:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"Maybe their answers are based on personal experience. Mine often are. "

Well, sure, but personal experience certainly can't be trusted. We know the brain can do some wild and wacky things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're getting any answers on the nature of the universe.

For instance, "oneness with everything". That's something a lot of people feel when they are in a very serene, content mood. Often brought on by LSD or other psychedelics. So we know that the brain is constructed in such a way that it will make people feel like they are one with everything. This really doesn't tell us anything about the nature of the universe, though. All it tells us is that the brain is constructed to feel that way.

I have spoken to many people who have had contradicting spiritual experiences. People have revelations that God and the Devil are illusions and we're all one energy force, and people have spoken to the devil and realized that he is everywhere forcing temptations on people. I have also met people who suffer from psychological disorders and are trapped in a world where everyone is out to get them.

What conclusion can you draw from all this? That the brain is a strange thing and it can create some wild experiences. It would be jumping to some pretty wild conclusions to think that the strange stuff your brain thinks up, which usually doesn't even make logical sense, is a clue to the inner workings of the universe.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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