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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18197931 - 05/01/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Whoever married the guy and brought him into the house should be held accountable.  A parent's job is to protect his or her children, and bringing the guy in the house should be enough to make the parent liable


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: Enlil]
    #18197976 - 05/01/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

What if she's dead?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18197999 - 05/01/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Take it from her estate to the extent that it isn't the victim's already


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: Enlil]
    #18198411 - 05/01/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

:facepalm:


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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18201064 - 05/02/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What breaks do you think I got?  Having decent parents who stayed married?  Genes? 

If you live in this country and do not have children you will almost certainly be able to support yourself.  There are some medical conditions that doom a small amount of people to permanent life support but almost always the condition of poverty is self generated.  Do not rob the liquor store and get sent to prison.  Do not punch people in the head just because they disrespected you.  Do not plug an excess dose of hot peppers in your ass.  Or anything else anywhere else.  Do not get shitfaced and drag race.  Finally, above all, DO NOT HAVE BABIES. 

In American, poverty is almost always a result of choice.




See, this is what I'm talking about.  If you read more carefully you would notice that A) I agree with most of you views I've seen you post and B) the "breaks" I am talking about are the ones where you boss comes up to you and moves you up the ladder.  This is based on a combination of two things usually: hard work mixed with intelligence and a personality that's appealing to said boss.  In this case breaks aren't bad things and I wasn't insulting you.

Then you go and say that the poor don't generate the wealth?  Really?  How can you be so smart and so oblivious.  So the guys in the factory getting paid shit to make the materials you use in your business don't contribute to you wealth?  Without them you'd have to make you own materials.  So goes for almost any industry.  You can't win this debate.  Without poor people working at poverty wages you would be far less better off than you are now. 

What's so hard to understand about that?  You think all those jobs your scum work don't line the pockets of those above them?  That's so hard to believe about someone of with your intelligence.

Poverty surely can be a matter of choice to lazy fucks.  But how many millions work at a wage that puts them into a poverty wage for life?  Tens of millions?  Sure even some of those are lazy as shit, but the majority work their ass off.  Just because you've hired a few laborers that were lazy doesn't mean you can generalize that trait to all poor people.  I grew up poor with a single parent and I made something of myself, but I'm lucky.  I see the majority of people I went to school with struggling to work two/three jobs just to make ends meet.  Are they lazy? You can't look at a food stamp office and say "They're all scum, even the ones who worked 25 years at the same place and got laid off so their scum bosses can move their company over seas and pay slave wages while they pay their workers 2-3 dollars a week or worse. 

I respect you.  I think you have many correct views.  This isn't one of them.  It makes you look like a sociopath "Fuck the poor people, they're scum whose biggest amount of work is riding to the food stamp building". 

If everyone could move up based on hard work a large portion of the bottom would be people who just entered the work force.  I worked 12 hour days landscaping when I was 16, I never even got a raise.  My boss was a college student with a rich daddy who thought he was gonna make himself rich cutting grass and planting fruit trees for rich people.  He was wrong.  If I had his capital and parents I would have been even more successful, because I wouldn't have picked a business that barely generates any revenue. 

I grew up on food stamps, WIC, in a house my grandparents gave to my mom, dealing with an alcoholic step-father, a drug addict mother, and on and on.  I'm the scum you hate and through talent and intelligence I made my way.

Poor people are people, just like stuck-up know-it-all's are people.  Neither is better or worse than the other.  There are plenty a lazy alcoholics/drug addicts making money hand over fist.  Yes, people tend to stay in the class they were born, a few rise, a few fall, but most of them stay right where their parents are.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: amilibertine]
    #18201678 - 05/02/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Having a good work ethic, intelligence and ability that gets recognized is not, in my mind, "a break".  Nor was it "a break" when I went into business for myself, with absolutely zero assistance from anybody, especially the government which was way more of a hindrance than a help.


No, if you got off the tit you are not the scum I hate.  The scum I hate are the scum that demand tit, do nothing to get off it and actively adjust their life situations to remain on it and maximize the flow of unearned succor.  Do oyu know who else disgusts me?  People who, when they reach a certain eligibility age, disgorge themselves of assets in order to suck government tit.  This is far more common than you might think.


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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18203563 - 05/02/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I think it's freakish you common for people to be lazy and avoid the system.  I suppose break isn't the right word in your mind.  You and taking it to mean that I'm calling it a bad thing.  You have to have capital to start a business in most cases.  People that work minimum wage you call scum as well, you said anyone who works minimum wage and isn't promoted in six months is (I'm paraphrasing here) an idiot. 

Those people could be the best of all the laborers in the place they work and still be not rewarded for it at all besides maybe a poultry raise.  I'm in the process of starting my own business as soon as I finish school.  I work and go to school full time.  I want to succeed and you're right in that many are lazy.  Not everyone is eager to slave at a job with no room for advancement when welfare pays batter. 

I would do away with all wellfare (except food stamps, children are innocent even if their parents are lazy fuckups.  They didn't choose to be born).  If we stopped sending billions overseas to places like israel we might get the ball rolling to make this a better country for everyone without the need destroy the economy.  We need to bring manufacturing back to this country.  We need to make more cars.  The list goes on and on. 

I used to hate your posts but I'm come to respect you about most topics.  But you are just plain wrong about all poor people being scum.  Many work harder than you or I and get paid a fraction of what we do.  I don't want to pay for their health care or anything else of their's.  I would like to see the economy grow though so that more people can find decent work with upward mobility.  Unfortunately that's not likely to happen with the money junkies run the world.

Anyways, let's agree to disagree.  You agree on many other things and I'm by no means a tree-hugging liberal whose living in la-la land where all things should be fair. 

Truce?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: amilibertine]
    #18204395 - 05/02/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think all poor people are scum.  I think poor people who don't try are scum. 

Young people should expect to be poor.  I fucking was.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: amilibertine]
    #18204403 - 05/02/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Let me add that I once worked harder than I do now for a lot less money.  It was called "being 25".


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OfflineSpace Monkey
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18204640 - 05/02/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

So you admit that there are poor people who work hard and are not scum! Do you think they deserve to die if they cannot pay bills for cancer treatments?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: Space Monkey]
    #18204656 - 05/02/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

We all deserve to die.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: Space Monkey]
    #18204736 - 05/02/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
So you admit that there are poor people who work hard and are not scum! Do you think they deserve to die if they cannot pay bills for cancer treatments?



We already had that covered


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OfflineLBM
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18217273 - 05/05/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

The idea of universal health care sounds great the problem is only a few people are responsible to pay for it.We have a small number of people who can't take care of themselves and I don't mind picking up the bill.I do mind paying for a third generation welfare recipient that has never added to the tax base but physically can work.I believe that if you want something out of the system you must put something in.It appears that half of the recipients of this obamanation are already feeding on the teat of society now I have to work even harder to support them, now that's not fair.


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I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors
                                                               
The best government is the least of it!

There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.
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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: "obamacare" [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #18219966 - 05/05/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

People on minimum wage already have a tax break.  i.e. they pay just about zero income tax.




Since minimum wage doesn't rise with the inflation of the currency those who earn minimum wage can barely cover their bills.  Therefore they can't save capital.  Therefore they are stuck being poor.  Not their fault. 

Quote:

Because it is important to point out that NO it isn't the government that is paying.  It is a small but significant proportion of the population that is paying for it.  Barry is not paying for it.  Pat Leahy is not paying for it.  Elizabeth Warren is not paying for it.  You probably aren't paying for it.  But I and those in my income range are.  Just like most everything else.





When someone makes dozens or hundreds of times the amount of those at the bottom they should pay a much higher tax rate.  Not everyone can be middle or upper class, there isn't enough wealth in the world for that.  So when Bill Gates pays a large federal income tax and someone who's making minimum wage gets a small return instead that's fair.  Some rich people have more money than the next ten generations of their family could spend.  I'm not talking about paying for welfare, I'm taking federal income tax (which pays the interest/debt on the money the government borrows from the Federal Reserve), State Taxes that pay for infrastructure in the state, unemployment, and FICA taxes).  People with 1,000 times the wealth should pay more taxes.  To most of them their accountant does it and it in no way diminishes their substantial wealth. If the poor paid the same high rates they would soon be homeless bums starving to death.

Quote:

How can a CEO decrease the wealth of everyone else?




Lay offs.  Moving company overseas.  Getting bonuses all the time that are larger than what the guy at the bottom will make in his life.  Replacing worker with machines.  Trying to outlaw unions so we can go back to the good old days of child labor, six day work weeks with no overtime, no minimum wage, and on and on.  So many examples books could be written solely about this topic.

Quote:

Fortunately there are saner people in charge determining the appropriate size of our military





This is shocking.  The military surely serves a needed service and I respect them.  The people who run it however are nuts.  Getting into wars to spread "democracy" when our country is a Constitutional Republic and democracy is mob rule.  Spending billions off the book of "black projects".  Writing off hammers for $1,000 dollars in their books.  Being extremely aggressive. Too red-blooded to understand blowback.  To short-sighted to realize ever innocent person we kill (and even every true terrorist) spawns hate and creates more terrorist just like putting out a fire with gasoline.  The leaders of the military are inept and bankrupting our country right along with their banker and arms manufacture friends.

Quote:

The percentage of taxes paid now is far more disparate than the percentage of income earned.




Agreed, at every level except the very poor.  In the case of people making several hundred thousand or more a year their taxes are too low.  This isn't some liberal winning, I don't generally like liberals.  If we keep spending money as fast as we can borrow it you can expect your taxes to rise regularly.  But I'm certain that the government will fix it either by war or confiscating most of everyone's money, just like what happened in the 1930's with gold.

Quote:

The only people who don't get fucked are the bums and losers who don't pay the tax. 




Their getting fucked the worst.  You think making 8 bucks an hour doing hard work and barely covering the bills is paradise? It's crazy.  Every job I've every had I could have done my bosses job (and in some cases even the owner's job) much better, more efficiently, and made the company more successful. But I was just a loser bum and my ideas are likewise the ideas of a loser bum.

Quote:

Minimum wage employees are parasitic losers if they have been out of school for more than six months.




Tell that to all the college grads who worked their ass off in promise of a great job and now work at the drive-thru or mcdonalds while living with their parents again and weighted down by student loan debt.  The jobs aren't there in a lot of fields.  This may be the craziest statement yet you've made in this thread.  You completely sound like an elitist asshole who judges a persons worth by their net worth instead of their intelligence and ability. 

Quote:

They aren't.  They can always work for free




Back before medical malpractice became so common and doctors had more freedom they regularly gave their services for free to those in need.  Now they fear being sued and losing their license to practice medicine.  Soon as the fat-cat insurance companies and their bought and paid for politicians changes the rules the free help stopped.  Doctors now are seen as money hungry and uncaring but it was others who wanted to make money off them that made them that what.

Quote:

but almost always the condition of poverty is self generated.




I'll agree that a lot of it is, but many people are born into poverty by parents who had no business having children.  They were taught no responsibility.  They weren't taught hard work.  They saw their parents getting free housing, money, insurance, and food and thought "Why bust my ass when the liberals will pay my way?"  Sad but true.  However some rebel from this and strive to be better than there parents and some of them against all odds become successful.  But the fact is that the class you're born into is almost always the class you are buried as a part of.

Quote:


In American, poverty is almost always a result of choice




Tell that the the veterans beyond count sleeping outside tonight.  I'd love to see where are these high-paying, great benefits having, awesome jobs are you seem to think exist.  There aren't that many.  It takes money to make money almost all the time. 

Quote:

The wealthy of this country were mostly born into it?  I don't think so. 



You may not think so, but that doesn't make you right. You weren't I assume, and neither was I but the vast majority were.  There's no denying it man. 

Quote:


The poor are not the people who make things go.  They are grinding the gears to a halt like sand in the lubricator




Gas stations. Food service. Grocery stores. Labors for construction. Manufacturers of all manner of goods or parts of goods.  Poor kids in foreign countries making Nike's for idiots in the US that collect hundred dollars shoes that they wear once and sit in a closet forever. I could go on, but I won't.  If every poor person stopped working tomorrow your business would suffer heavily.  minimum wage employees are the gears of the machine, if they stop turning the machine stops.  How do you think worker strikes lead to unionization laws?

Look, I like your posts most the time. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm just pointing out that you seem to have contempt for the people that hold up all of us who live comfortable lives.  Without them we would be doing their work and being paid what they make and barely scrapping by.  Intelligent people can embrace a different belief system when provided with new, accurate, and intriguing evidence.  I know I won't change you views but I just wanted to point out that not all poor people are poor by choice and likewise some of them are completely attached to the government teat.  The percentages though may not be in favor of the later, especially if the supposed wonderful leaders we have actually could run a country to success instead of into the ground. 

Also, you never responded to my offer of truce. I don't wanna fight, I just want to have intelligent conversations so I feel like a can post in the political forum without having to always argue with people.  I'm just one person and I'm surely not right about everything and my mind can be changed when faced with new evidence.  I'd rather be friends than enemies.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: [Re: amilibertine]
    #18223990 - 05/06/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

amilibertine said:
Quote:

People on minimum wage already have a tax break.  i.e. they pay just about zero income tax.




Since minimum wage doesn't rise with the inflation of the currency those who earn minimum wage can barely cover their bills.  Therefore they can't save capital.  Therefore they are stuck being poor.  Not their fault.




If you are still making minimum wage after being in the workforce for a couple of years it is your fault.  They  are starting wages.  IOf after a couple years in the workforce you have not made yourself more valuable through experience you are a complete fucking loser.
Quote:



Quote:

Because it is important to point out that NO it isn't the government that is paying.  It is a small but significant proportion of the population that is paying for it.  Barry is not paying for it.  Pat Leahy is not paying for it.  Elizabeth Warren is not paying for it.  You probably aren't paying for it.  But I and those in my income range are.  Just like most everything else.





When someone makes dozens or hundreds of times the amount of those at the bottom they should pay a much higher tax rate.  Not everyone can be middle or upper class, there isn't enough wealth in the world for that.  So when Bill Gates pays a large federal income tax and someone who's making minimum wage gets a small return instead that's fair.  Some rich people have more money than the next ten generations of their family could spend.  I'm not talking about paying for welfare, I'm taking federal income tax (which pays the interest/debt on the money the government borrows from the Federal Reserve), State Taxes that pay for infrastructure in the state, unemployment, and FICA taxes).  People with 1,000 times the wealth should pay more taxes.  To most of them their accountant does it and it in no way diminishes their substantial wealth. If the poor paid the same high rates they would soon be homeless bums starving to death.




Productive work creates wealth.  Of course their wealth diminishes when the government takes it away.  Duh.  So what if they have a lot of money.  It didn't cost you anything
Quote:



Quote:

How can a CEO decrease the wealth of everyone else?




Lay offs.  Moving company overseas.  Getting bonuses all the time that are larger than what the guy at the bottom will make in his life.  Replacing worker with machines.  Trying to outlaw unions so we can go back to the good old days of child labor, six day work weeks with no overtime, no minimum wage, and on and on.  So many examples books could be written solely about this topic.




Not by you, apparently.  You are clearly a Luddite.  They get the big bonuses because the people who pay their check think that they are worth it.  BUt they aren't the real people who are gettig screwed into oblivion.  The biggest victims are successful lawyers, doctors, small business owners and anybody else who makes real money through their own labor
Quote:



Quote:

Fortunately there are saner people in charge determining the appropriate size of our military





This is shocking.  The military surely serves a needed service and I respect them.  The people who run it however are nuts.  Getting into wars to spread "democracy" when our country is a Constitutional Republic and democracy is mob rule.  Spending billions off the book of "black projects".  Writing off hammers for $1,000 dollars in their books.  Being extremely aggressive. Too red-blooded to understand blowback.  To short-sighted to realize ever innocent person we kill (and even every true terrorist) spawns hate and creates more terrorist just like putting out a fire with gasoline.  The leaders of the military are inept and bankrupting our country right along with their banker and arms manufacture friends.




The people who got us into the wars were the elected civilian leaders.  The military does what they are told.  Did kicking Saddam out of Kuwait spawn hate among the Kuwaitis and the Saudis?  Japan?  Germany?  Do they hate us?  The Islamic retards are just nuts.  You do not eliminate terror by surrendering to it and they kill far far more innocent people than we do.  They target innocent people.
Quote:



Quote:

The percentage of taxes paid now is far more disparate than the percentage of income earned.




Agreed, at every level except the very poor.  In the case of people making several hundred thousand or more a year their taxes are too low.  This isn't some liberal winning, I don't generally like liberals.  If we keep spending money as fast as we can borrow it you can expect your taxes to rise regularly.  But I'm certain that the government will fix it either by war or confiscating most of everyone's money, just like what happened in the 1930's with gold.




The removal of gold bullion from private hands in the thirties was not a confiscation.  They were paid for it.

My family income fluctuates between 400,000 and 800,000.  It wasn't always so.  In fact we both spent plenty of time working for shit money.  We write six figure checks.

Let us take one example.  Two wage earner family.  Doctor makes 500K.  Dentist makes 150K.  Both are self employed.  The Dentist pays 15% on FICA and every single dollar earned is taxed at the top bracket.  Federal that means 40%. In NY that mean over 10%.  There are other taxes as well but they are minimal.  Still the Dentist is seeing 2/3rds of his/her income ripped.  Why work?  The government tax scheme is disincentivizing work.
Quote:



Quote:

The only people who don't get fucked are the bums and losers who don't pay the tax. 




Their getting fucked the worst.  You think making 8 bucks an hour doing hard work and barely covering the bills is paradise? It's crazy.  Every job I've every had I could have done my bosses job (and in some cases even the owner's job) much better, more efficiently, and made the company more successful. But I was just a loser bum and my ideas are likewise the ideas of a loser bum.




How are they getting fucked?  In 2011 the various governments of the United States spent over 1 TRILLION dollars on means tested largesse, which does not include soc sec or medicare.  Even if there is 100 million poor people, and there isn't, that would amount to $10,000 each. 

If you could do their job you would be doing it.  Somebody would find you and use you and pay to keep you.  Or you could start your own enterprise.  I did.  My wife did.  What's stopping the incredibly talented Mr Amilibertine?  Or anybody else?
Quote:



Quote:

Minimum wage employees are parasitic losers if they have been out of school for more than six months.




Tell that to all the college grads who worked their ass off in promise of a great job and now work at the drive-thru or mcdonalds while living with their parents again and weighted down by student loan debt.  The jobs aren't there in a lot of fields.  This may be the craziest statement yet you've made in this thread.  You completely sound like an elitist asshole who judges a persons worth by their net worth instead of their intelligence and ability.




I sure as shit didn't promise them that crap about college and I absolutely would encourage most people to avoid college unless they are in engineering or science/math.  Art history is for schmucks.  Further, the ever increasing amount of federal interference with college payments has done nothing but increase the cost of a college education and inflated the size of the non-teaching bureaucracy at university so much that it now surpasses the cost of actual professors
Quote:


Quote:

They aren't.  They can always work for free




Back before medical malpractice became so common and doctors had more freedom they regularly gave their services for free to those in need.  Now they fear being sued and losing their license to practice medicine.  Soon as the fat-cat insurance companies and their bought and paid for politicians changes the rules the free help stopped.  Doctors now are seen as money hungry and uncaring but it was others who wanted to make money off them that made them that what.




It wasn't the insurance companies and the politician that caused the litigation problem.  It was the bar and stupid fucking juries who see a wallet and dig into it for every sob story. 
Quote:



Quote:

but almost always the condition of poverty is self generated.




I'll agree that a lot of it is, but many people are born into poverty by parents who had no business having children.  They were taught no responsibility.  They weren't taught hard work.  They saw their parents getting free housing, money, insurance, and food and thought "Why bust my ass when the liberals will pay my way?"  Sad but true.  However some rebel from this and strive to be better than there parents and some of them against all odds become successful.  But the fact is that the class you're born into is almost always the class you are buried as a part of.




Now you are agreeing with me.  The welfare state creates welfare dependents.
Quote:



Quote:


In American, poverty is almost always a result of choice




Tell that the the veterans beyond count sleeping outside tonight.  I'd love to see where are these high-paying, great benefits having, awesome jobs are you seem to think exist.  There aren't that many.  It takes money to make money almost all the time.




No, it doesn't take money to make money.  Neither I nor my wife started with any money.  Fuck benefits, give me cash.  Make your own future.  You are a genius so surely it should be no problem
Quote:

 

Quote:

The wealthy of this country were mostly born into it?  I don't think so. 



You may not think so, but that doesn't make you right. You weren't I assume, and neither was I but the vast majority were.  There's no denying it man.




This is flagrant nonsense.
http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/most-wealthy-individuals-earned-not-inherited-their-wealth/

Quote:

Recently, PNC Wealth Management conducted a survey of people with more than $500,000 free to invest as they like, a fair definition of “wealthy,” and possibly “millionaire” once you begin including home equity and other assets. Only 6% of those surveyed earned their money from inheritance alone. 69% earned their wealth mostly by trading time and effort for money, or by “working.”




Quote:

 

Quote:


The poor are not the people who make things go.  They are grinding the gears to a halt like sand in the lubricator




Gas stations. Food service. Grocery stores. Labors for construction. Manufacturers of all manner of goods or parts of goods.  Poor kids in foreign countries making Nike's for idiots in the US that collect hundred dollars shoes that they wear once and sit in a closet forever. I could go on, but I won't.  If every poor person stopped working tomorrow your business would suffer heavily.  minimum wage employees are the gears of the machine, if they stop turning the machine stops.  How do you think worker strikes lead to unionization laws?




Minimum wage earners are by definition utterly replaceable but there are none in my industry around here.  Day laborers, mostly illegal, get paid $100 a day cash, plus lunch plus transportation.  That's over $20,000 a year, totally tax free.  That Juan is not poor.  Even if he was making minimum wage that Juan would not be considered poor.  But Igor who makes the same money would be considered poor.  Why is that, you ask?  Because Igor has two kids and a wife.  Having children is a choice and a life killer for people at the bottom but that doesn't stop them from breeding.  Poor by choice.
Quote:





Look, I like your posts most the time. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm just pointing out that you seem to have contempt for the people that hold up all of us who live comfortable lives.  Without them we would be doing their work and being paid what they make and barely scrapping by.  Intelligent people can embrace a different belief system when provided with new, accurate, and intriguing evidence.  I know I won't change you views but I just wanted to point out that not all poor people are poor by choice and likewise some of them are completely attached to the government teat.  The percentages though may not be in favor of the later, especially if the supposed wonderful leaders we have actually could run a country to success instead of into the ground.




There are physically and mentally deficient people.  It isn't their fault.  Everybody else has no excuse for long.  WE would be a lot better off if the politicians would stop trying to run things as much as they do.  The success of this country was NOT built on the back of government.  Do you not notice a correlation between increased government interference and decreased individual opportunity?
Quote:

 

Also, you never responded to my offer of truce. I don't wanna fight, I just want to have intelligent conversations so I feel like a can post in the political forum without having to always argue with people.  I'm just one person and I'm surely not right about everything and my mind can be changed when faced with new evidence.  I'd rather be friends than enemies.




Dude, this isn't a fight and it isn't personal.  I think you have been fed garbage information.  I am trying to help you and everybody else to embrace personal responsibility and at least some sense that enterprising individuals, no matter where they start out, can improve their lot in life.  Here is where I see your biggest misunderstandings. 

Minimum wage is not a person's permanent wage.  Unless they are complete fucking losers
Most wealth is earned, not inherited.
When the leftwing nutjobs screech about the greedy rich who they want to fuck they do not discriminate in their taxation demands between people who earn their money by producing goods and services and this who make their money investing.  They also lie about the tax rates paid by the investors.  A stock dividend reflects a profit returned to an owner only after it has been raped by the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.

There are too many government employees causing too much harm by being officious bureaucrat weenies enforcing inane regulations.

Keystone Now!

Edited for formatting error.


Edited by zappaisgod (05/07/13 02:23 PM)


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Invisibleliquidlounge


Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: "obamacare" [Re: carpetmunch]
    #18226878 - 05/07/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Am I overreacting?

NO.


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As far as I assume to know...


Edited by liquidlounge (05/07/13 12:02 PM)


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Offlineamilibertine
It’s good to be back!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Northern South Midwest
Last seen: 5 months, 17 days
Re: [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18231940 - 05/08/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dude, this isn't a fight and it isn't personal.  I think you have been fed garbage information.  I am trying to help you and everybody else to embrace personal responsibility and at least some sense that enterprising individuals, no matter where they start out, can improve their lot in life.  Here is where I see your biggest misunderstandings. 

Minimum wage is not a person's permanent wage.  Unless they are complete fucking losers
Most wealth is earned, not inherited.
When the leftwing nutjobs screech about the greedy rich who they want to fuck they do not discriminate in their taxation demands between people who earn their money by producing goods and services and this who make their money investing.  They also lie about the tax rates paid by the investors.  A stock dividend reflects a profit returned to an owner only after it has been raped by the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.

There are too many government employees causing too much harm by being officious bureaucrat weenies enforcing inane regulations.




Keystone Now!

Edited for formatting error.




All wealth was created at some point correct.  I'm far from a "lefty".  Getting a 15 cent raise every six months or year is pretty much standard in service level jobs.  Those jobs have to exist, my point is that the minimum wage is too low to start with.  Not that we could just raise it and that would fix anything. 

The rich that own these companies don't produce the goods that they profit from, the workers at the bottom do.  Not everyone is a success story like you and whether you believe it or not hard work doesn't always equal more rewards.  That system is vanishing.  Things have changed and are ever changing.  I don't hate rich people, nor am I envious.  What I dislike is how they are insulated from prosecution so often when they bend or break the law.  When we bailed-out the banks and the CEO's gave themselves huge multi-million dollar bonuses who was rewarding them for a job well done then?  The taxpayers?  The board at the bank?  (As a side note, when I'm talking about rich people I'm talking about the richest people in the world, not just someone making a couple million a year)

Hypocrisy is what I hate.  I may not hate the super rich but they sure seem to look down on everyone else even though without everyone else they wouldn't be where they are.  Not many make it to the very top (too be clear, by top I mean the .01% ultra-rich) without stepping on the backs of others.  If the CEO of Goldman-Sachs gets a 20 million dollar bonus this year it's a drop in the bucket for him.  That amount of money could feed every homeless veteran in this country.  Not that it's the CEO's job to do that, but it should be someones job seeing as those vets risked their lives for all of us.

You're right, the Muslims are just crazy.  No doubt about it.  But I don't see leaving them alone as defeat, I see it as strategy.  We may not target innocents but every one we kill breeds more hate and more terrorists.  Maybe we should try listening for a change.  Maybe we could use logic and pay attention to blow-back.  I don't know if it would work or not, but what we are doing not certainly isn't working.  I expect attacks here at home will increase over time.


You know you're stuff.  You made a good life for you and you family, and I respect that. When I first came to this board I didn't like your attitude but I grew to see the need for it and that it was assertiveness and not aggression. I think I'll start posting in the political forum more often.  We may have differences but I think we can learn from one another.  I've enjoyed this back and forth and even though we differ on some things it's nice to talk to someone with intelligence who's not afraid to say things that need to be said (like the Muslim issue). 

Cheers :super:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: [Re: amilibertine]
    #18233871 - 05/08/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I have no problem with reforming the tax code.  The CEO of Goldman Sachs gets paid mostly in stock, not wages.  The stock he gets paid in represent an income that has already been hammered by our corporate taxes, which is the highest in the developed world.  If you factor that in he is paying 3 times what the newspapers say he is.


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OfflineTrauM
Poker Player


Registered: 12/05/00
Posts: 1,009
Loc: North America
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: "obamacare" [Re: carpetmunch]
    #18237673 - 05/09/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Obamacare.. sounds wrong!


--------------------
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practise to deceive..


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