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Invisible2525

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 323
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: Icelander]
    #18223417 - 05/06/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: falcon]
    #18223459 - 05/06/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

If a liar, it shows that he will disregard the truth and act in way that is in his best interest.

Again, irrelevant. Randi is not the judge of these tests. Nobody is. The claimant suggests the test protocol, not the JREF. The result must be intrinsically obvious without a judge for exactly the accusations that have been posted. You either do what the protocol says is a win, or you don't. If judging or estimating or subjectivity is involved, the protocol will not be accepted by the JREF because then people will claim bias.

For example: you claim you can predict the roll of a 6-sided die. The test is that a die will be rolled 10 times inside a cage (to remove any possibility of cheating) and if you guess 8 or more correctly, you win. No judging, no subjectivity. You either do it or you don't. And you can bring someone to film the test for YouTube to ensure it is fair.

So again, the ad hominem is irrelevant. Randi could be an ax murderer, pedophile, and embezzler. The test will remain rock solid anyway.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: Diploid]
    #18223520 - 05/06/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

If the test is solely based on what i claim and my own devices to find. With no objection to my taking concentrates to boost my ability, then as i stated before, i will gladly accept, i can find practically anything with remote viewing..i was posting this on the shroomery months ago lol. that is something that i have become very good at, as long as what i'm searching for is within my vicinity. I have never tried searching/viewing long range. I would have you show me items, let me feel them & see them. Then i would go into a dark room blindfolded. Then i would have have you hide them in a field. I would find everthing you have hidden. To its exact spot. The skeptic in you will tell you that i may find it all anyways just by the length of searching. But i will find things quickly....I may not be able to control my tk without more training & repetition to be able to move things at will yet, but i have felt the potential & seen/felt/experienced something very fluid and natural happening. That will come soon.

Will they take a remote viewer? or is that not magical enough to debunk....

afterall it fits into their "paranormal" category, even though its a really more mainstream topic. You cant really debunk a good remote viewer hahaha.

oh wait, they did... apparently the have turned down a few "winners" who have met the challenges that were in place. They met the required "mutually agreed on terms", then they were changed to meet standards outside of what was presented. As to create an impossible scenarion with the only real winner being james randi....the man who strangely enough gains the highest regard of certain shroomerites even though he has absolutely no scientific accreditation, even in how he speaks, shows a lack of scientific understanding . And the standards in which he has created (according to the testimonials of winning contestants including other scientists) are beyond any reasonable means of correlating scientific measurement/standards in which test are done.



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Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


Edited by treesniper119 (05/06/13 06:22 PM)

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #18223532 - 05/06/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I found the following description here of some of the protocol and the vetting is harsh.

Quote:

The Challenge begins with a red herring:

Randi boasts that the protocols of each test must be “mutually agreed upon.” But the only terms he agrees to insist that applicants obtain results beyond what would be demanded to determine scientific significance.

The preliminary test, which must be passed before an applicant can try for the million, demands odds against chance of 1,000 to 1. The second test, to win the million, requires the applicant to show results at better than a million to one against chance.

The result is that an applicant can—and did—achieve statistically significant positive results, yet was deemed to “fail” the challenge. Taylor quotes a psi researcher giving the following account:

“In the ganzfeld telepathy test the meta-analytic hit rate with unselected subjects is 32% where chance expectation is 25%. If that 32% hit rate is the ‘real’ telepathy effect, then for us to have a 99% chance of getting a significant effect at p < 0.005, we would need to run 989 trials. One ganzfeld session lasts about 1.5 hours, or about 1,483 total hours. Previous experiments show that it is not advisable to run more than one session per day. So we have to potentially recruit 989 x 2 people to participate, an experimenter who will spend 4+ years running these people day in and day out, and at the end we’ll end up with p < 0.005. Randi will say those results aren’t good enough, because you could get such a result by chance 5 in 1,000 times. Thus, he will require odds against chance of at least a million to 1 to pay out $1 million, and then the amount of time and money it would take to get a significant result would be far in excess of $1 million.”




The rest of the article goes on to describe the kind of control Randi gains over the successful applicant.

Quote:

In addition, there are other reasons anyone might decide not to apply. JREF requires applicants to grant the rights to all video, audio and written record of the tests to the JREF, and also to waive any legal claims stemming from the challenge. In other words, anyone who ventures into Randi’s lair, seeking to win $1 million, will find their every word and deed therein subject to Randi’s editing and promotional exploitation, without any legal recourse. (Taylor first reported this, providing a link to rules posted at Randi’s website that have subsequently been taken down.)




Randi has stacked the odds against winning and gets the a bigger prize if he does have to pay.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: treesniper119]
    #18223560 - 05/06/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

....I may not be able to control my tk without more training & repetition to be able to move things at will yet,




Of course you can't. Other members have promised and practiced for years - nothing.

Sort of like the over-unity device people who are almost there - every single year.

When you do get it down, fly to Vegas, control the dice at craps and we shall have a helluva time spending all that free money!


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Posts: 45,441
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: falcon]
    #18223574 - 05/06/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Funny how it is ALWAYS the misunderstood legal reasons and not the physical reasons why one cannot change the world as we know it.

Yet no one is prohibiting anyone from uploading a decent video of alleged TK to get the Diploid Challenge rolling.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (05/06/13 05:48 PM)

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18223613 - 05/06/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Funny how people are challenged to take Randi's test and it's not a scientific test, it's goes way beyond statistically significant and funny how a lot of skeptics are taken in by this con man, Randi.

Oh and if someone did have talent do you think they'd give over that control to Randi?
Would you? Yeah, sure you would.

So there's a legal reason and the test is impossible to pass. Randi not only wants result he wants the kind of results that would let anyone that could produce them make his time spent at Randi's a waste, pfft a million dollars, some so called skeptics are so easily fooled because it appeals to their world view.

Edited by falcon (05/06/13 05:44 PM)

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Invisible2525

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 323
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18223619 - 05/06/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
When you do get it down, fly to Vegas, control the dice at craps and we shall have a helluva time spending all that free money!




We?

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: 2525]
    #18223656 - 05/06/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Even with remote viewing, he will not likely know where the best steakhouses and strip clubs are. And he will need a designated driver with all that spark going on.


--------------------

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: falcon]
    #18223668 - 05/06/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Funny how people are challenged to take Randi's test and it's not a scientific test, it's goes way beyond statistically significant and funny how a lot of skeptics are taken in by this con man, Randi.




For about 8 years here Swami had a $20K challenge without lawyers that not even one person showed up for.

All mystic-heads excel at is excuse-making. No one squirms and wiggles like a True Believer.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18223764 - 05/06/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I remember that. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: falcon]
    #18223781 - 05/06/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I found the following description here of some of the protocol and the vetting is harsh.

That's because the JREF has been the target of many thousands of cheaters in the decades since the price has been on the table. Fool me once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me. Or some such.

Now, can you show me how they are unfair? The claimants to these prizes state that they can perform to well above the statistical requirements of the JREF. So why is requiring the same level of performance claimed "harsh" in any way.

Harsh is fair. It is part and parcel of science. Leave no room for mistakes or self-delusion or statistical flukes because it will render your results meaningless. Even a fair coin will occasionally flip heads 10 times in a row. The JREF is not interested in finding lucky people. It is interested in finding genuine paranormal ability.

And in any case, claims of TK are pretty simple to protocol. No fancy math and statistics. Just do it or don't do it. The end. I don't see how that can be called "harsh". TK is what is being claimed here.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18223785 - 05/06/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Funny how people are challenged to take Randi's test and it's not a scientific test, it's goes way beyond statistically significant and funny how a lot of skeptics are taken in by this con man, Randi.




For about 8 years here Swami had a $20K challenge without lawyers that not even one person showed up for.

All mystic-heads excel at is excuse-making. No one squirms and wiggles like a True Believer.




Good for you, but that in now way makes Randi's challenge more credible. :haha:


--------------------
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: falcon]
    #18223790 - 05/06/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

it's goes way beyond statistically significant

If we were talking about one individual, you are correct. But we are talking about tens of thousands of individual tests over the years. If the required performance was not high, someone could have have won by now on luck, not genuine ability.

You do realize that someone wins the lottery even at tens of millions to one odds, no? All it takes is enough people taking the test (buying a ticket). Can that lottery winner claim paranormal powers because he beat "impossible odds"? Really?

So there's a legal reason and the test is impossible to pass.

If the claimed ability is real, a trillion to one test is simple to pass. You are just not getting that this is a test of ability, not luck. If you REALLY have these powers, the odds against a lucky win are irrelevant.

And again, statistics don't play into tests of TK. The claimant either moves it or doesn't. Why are you bringing statistics into this at all?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinetreesniper119
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 1,893
Loc: rainbow land
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: Diploid]
    #18223831 - 05/06/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

The claim of JREF is that no one is psychic and that proof of this is that no one can pass their tests and claim their prize.

If you are going to use this as proof that someone isn’t psychic, then it is up to you to provide a credible test of their ability. There is absolutely no proof that any of the JREF tests meet that standard. They are too short among other things.

It is up to JREF to provide proof that the test is credible in order to make any claims about what the test has demonstrated. The whole process though, is poorly documented and lacks any objective observers. It is not up to scientific standards.

well said.


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


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Offlinetreesniper119
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #18223845 - 05/06/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Even with remote viewing, he will not likely know where the best steakhouses and strip clubs are. And he will need a designated driver with all that spark going on.



shrooms are a fickle thing
and your comment really made me laugh, thank you.
+5 shrooms for you.


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: treesniper119]
    #18224100 - 05/06/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

You are changing the subject. You said some bullshit. I asked you to show me. You lied and agreed, then reneged. Now you're backpedaling. Rinse and repeat. Nothing more to see here.

This theme repeats here almost monthly when the next guy shows up insisting he can do something magical and a few pages later starts calling people names when they ask for a demo. Then they change the subject when they realize their bullshit bluff was just called out and they got nothing. Par for the course.

If you are going to use this as proof that someone isn’t psychic, then it is up to you to provide a credible test of their ability.

How old are you? Have you ever taken a class in basic logic or basic debate? It is not possible to prove the general case that something does not exist.

Prove to me the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist. Bet you can't. Should we all now fall to the default belief that she does exist because no one can prove she doesn't or should we insist that someone who claims she does exist introduce us?

This last post of yours is far beyond the ordinary facepalm. I am now forced to resort to my heavy-duty facepalm.



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: treesniper119]
    #18224241 - 05/06/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

treesniper119 said:

I don't want to kill other creatures, i tried to hunt, it sucks to take life. You believe you need to do this to survive, i do not. mute point






Moot point


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18224268 - 05/06/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: The Observers? Cannabinoids & multiple levels of simultaneous observation [Re: Diploid]
    #18224278 - 05/06/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

The link I provided claimed that the claimant meet 1000 to 1 in the preliminary and 1000000 to 1 in the final, is why I brought statistics into it.

Doing TK on demand all the time, would be a remarkable ability. I hope someone steps up and takes your challenge with respect to Randi's challenge with a valid claim. Having you in their corner would certainly help them when dealing with Randi. I don't envy you though, if you should have to deal with JREF as I think Randi is a con man and has no intention of ever making a payment and if they could he and his group would run you around till you had to get on with your lives.

Edited by falcon (05/06/13 08:29 PM)

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