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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Registered: 05/06/04
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Newtimer]
    #18243411 - 05/10/13 01:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Newtimer said:
I soaked it for close to 16 hours then after I boiled the popcorn for an hour and let it sit over night. In the morning I placed in in jars and the steamed each batch for two hours then let it sit over night again before inoculation. As I read in other threads and whats posted on you tube allowing popcorn to sit soaked in water for more than 12 hours triggers all grain spores to germinate once this occurs the two hours of steaming with lids loose allows for heat to kill all contaminating grain spores which has seemed to work. I know everyone says its going to fail but I don't think alot of people have ever tried to prepare popcorn like you tube says to so if they have not and only preach pressure cookers than they should not comment because trial and error will determine who's correct. Every step I have taken has been tried and proven true so we will see if I have same results. Slow colonization is normal with popcorn especially with multi sp. inoculation, I have orders a bunch of new syringes from Sponcers  and hope to try another grain soon cakes do not produce enough of a yield for me so waste of time. I did order a PC for next 50 jars but for now this is my fun




Did you come here for advice or did you come to here to argue that your way is correct and that everyone who says otherwise is wrong?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10394962#10394962
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

If it can kill whatever is in the jars for the PF tek, so in theory it should be able to kill the same things on whole grains.



Incorrect theory.

Grains such as rye harbor bacterial endospores that can survive many hours at 212F/100C.  Brown rice does not.  That's why we use pressure cookers for whole grains.  Noobs will just have to stick to brf tek or pony up the dough for a pressure cooker if they want success more than a tiny fraction of the time.
RR





http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17867637#17867637
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Whippy said:
I am just pointing out the fact that the first things I ever tried to sterilize were 4 quarts of grain.  I steamed them 3 days in a row @ 212.  Is it "recommended".  No.  I don't recommend it because what can be done in a Pressure cooker in 1/3 of the time or less. 

Point of the matter, that Fractal sterilization may be not recommended, but if done correctly it accomplishes the means necessary for this hobby.  It does work, and failure is from not adhering to specific schedules.  It must be done every 24 hours....not later in the day.....




No it does not work.  I suggest if you wish to claim it does that you 'fractional sterilize' 100 jars of grains and inoculate them.  If over 50 of those jars produce mushrooms, you can say it has a 50% success/fail rate.  I know for a fact however that you won't be able to get 50 out of 100 jars to fruit that way.

After preparation of the grains, you can steam at 100C for 8 hours and succeed.  In fact, this is the method we use on our commercial mushroom farm to achieve 100% success.  Not only that, but we're at 4000' elevation so water boils at less than 100C.  The key is to keep the grains or supplemented sawdust at or near 100C for 8 hours.

Obviously a pressure cooker or sterilizer is best and quickest, but the above works.
RR




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16725278#16725278
Quote:

Green molds aren't the problem, they kill easily below boiling. What we sterilize for is bacterial endospores, which can be really tough to kill. Many begin to form new endospores within hours of germination, so if you go too long between boilings, you're screwed. I'd start over and do the three boilings 24 hours apart as suggested in the tek.

Of course, this method has a very high failure rate, so I'd still recommend using the brf tek. There's nothing wrong with it. Many very experienced growers do very well with pf tek, and stick with it even though they're also experts at bulk.
RR



Quote:

If you don't wish to sterilize by traditional proved methods, you can simply boil as in the
brf tek for 8 hours and this will sterilize grains.
  Fractional sterilization is a failed tek that has been disproved for many years.
RR




Edited by NewfoundFreedom (05/10/13 01:28 PM)

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OfflineNewtimer
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #18243593 - 05/10/13 02:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well lets see I'm not doing anything diff.from suggested lets see what horriable predicted success I have, personally I think I'm going to be just fine :smile:

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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
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Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Wow Day 10 and finally a good sign / pic below [Re: Newtimer]
    #18243732 - 05/10/13 02:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Newtimer said:
Well lets see I'm not doing anything diff.from suggested lets see what horriable predicted success I have, personally I think I'm going to be just fine :smile:





Quote:

Newtimer said:These are the steps I have taken thus far. I soaked Popcorn for 15 hours, rinsed and boiled for hour and half. Then I washed all jars and boiled jars and tops for hour. After that I placed jars in micro wave for 3 min just to be sure zero contamination. Rinsed my popcorn a final time and let dry on towel for two hours until mostly dry "it felt nice and soft but not mushy and not very wet" I then filled jars with popcorn and do not have a pressure cooker so instead I used a huge roaster in which I placed all the jars in covered and boiled i did same with bags just zipped the bags closed wrapped in tinfoil and placed poly fill at end of zipper to allow bags to breath,  boiled all for two hours with tinfoil and tops. I poked to holes in each jar top with a nail and I stuffed the holes with poly fill  then I placed tinfoil on the tops did not screw the tops on completely and boiled. After I took all units filled with substrate in oven and allowed to sit and cool over night. I'm morning I cleaned bathroom vigorously and disinfected like three times with whole can of Lysol. Did myself up with rubber gloves and clean clothes and started my inoculation process through the poly fill, I did notice that some redish appearing stuff was on some of my poly fill which I contributed to the wax on the lids Probably from the boiling process. As it was red wax, makes since. I injected half a cc in each hole against the glass into the corn. I did not use a vermiculite topping as I read on here its not nessasary.  I then placed in a dark area in which the temp carries from 75 - 83 and here we are, should I be worried what scares me is I have four strains and see no sign of colonization in any of them yet? Tinfoil is removed. Important note the first day my temp did go to 90 due to heater being to high and that morning go to 68. But I have it perfect




Quote:

The key is to keep the grains or supplemented sawdust at or near 100C for 8 hours.



Quote:

Fractional sterilization is a failed tek that has been disproved for many years.
RR




:retawed:

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OfflineNewtimer
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #18244054 - 05/10/13 03:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Will see I'm starting 30 more jars with same process

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InvisibleFuzz-nutter
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Newtimer]
    #18244279 - 05/10/13 04:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Will see I'm starting 30 more jars with same process




Reinventing the wheel eh
:goodluckwiththat2:



:cheersyoufuck: Good luck with that

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Newtimer]
    #18244710 - 05/10/13 06:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Newtimer said:
Wow I hope to prove you all wrong, as I have alot of faith in what I have done so far and wouldn't I see contamination by now its been over two weeks?



You can't see bacteria. Although eventually it can make your grains look wet and then slimy, sometimes you only know it's there because the jars stalls.


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Invisiblemycomattie
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Kizzle]
    #18244749 - 05/10/13 06:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How are your one gallon Ziploc bags holding up?  Trying to sterilize and keep medium sterile in Ziploc bags has been real hit or miss - more often a miss for me. 

They contaminate very easily.


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OfflineMadSeasonStudent
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: mycomattie]
    #18244983 - 05/10/13 07:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You know what dude, you did what you did and even if it doesn't work out, at least you got some of the procedures down, so it's not all in failure if it does contam.

You might want to think about investing in a pressure cooker at some time.
I wish you the best luck....

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OfflineNewtimer
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: MadSeasonStudent]
    #18247825 - 05/11/13 11:31 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Great news I have three out of the four strains colonizing I see mycelium finally in 16 out of 24 jars all but Cambodian. Bag substrate too out of 3 bags two look real good b+ and creeper all looks good thus far / I'm super stoked :wink:

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OfflineNewtimer
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Two and a half weeks on popcorn [Re: Newtimer]
    #18269841 - 05/15/13 04:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Almost there

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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Two and a half weeks on popcorn [Re: Newtimer]
    #18269859 - 05/15/13 04:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

how cute...shake it


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Offlineheebusjeebus
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Re: Two and a half weeks on popcorn [Re: cronicr]
    #18269907 - 05/15/13 04:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
how cute...shake it




:thumbup:

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OfflineNewtimer
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3 weeks good mycelium / popcorn [Re: heebusjeebus]
    #18279995 - 05/17/13 06:02 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Three weeks good things all my creeper is colonizing and looks like pic, my b+ is going nice also. Nothing from Cambodian unfortunately I'm still going to let them try.y equator are just starting and I'm seeing positive growth so I'd have to say all is working Out one bag of b+ still going strong think for fun in going to fruit in bag. Started Mexican, pink buffalo and golden teacher the other day same way because it seems to be working perfect. Because no Cambodian came alive in thinking maybe a spore issue or bacteria but seems weird all others came too but one certain strain. Any way stoked with results loving the process. Going to case with vermiculight and earth worm stuff.

Edited by Newtimer (05/17/13 06:07 PM)

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OfflineLeseid
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Re: 3 weeks good mycelium / popcorn [Re: Newtimer]
    #18280845 - 05/17/13 09:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Glad this worked out for you man

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OfflineNewtimer
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Leseid]
    #18282649 - 05/18/13 07:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Newtimer]
    #18282655 - 05/18/13 07:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

How do you shake your jars with it being that full?

anyway looks good, id give popcorn a go if it wasnt so damn expensive for popcorn seed in the UK.

WBS is 85p for 1.5 kg compare to almost £2 for a small bag (probably 500g) of popcorn.


If your fruiting straight grain you could just mix 50/50 with hydrated verm (rez effect) rather than using a casing layer. Will provide all the needed water to support fruiting.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
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Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
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Invisiblerulesq
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Newtimer]
    #18282760 - 05/18/13 08:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Just this monday i noc'd a jar(2,5 liters by volume), filled with 2dl of popcorn, used a print of Pcola and the first signs of myc growth appeared three days later..

So far so good,  gonna use it for g2g transfers. My 2nd attempt to grow(ever) btw. frst one failed miserably, scored a contam hat trick with green&black mold and what i suspect was a bacterial growth(smelled like strawberry yoghurt). Came to a conclusion that its time to do some serious spring cleaning :grin: 2nd conclusion was that my grain-to-spore ratio was a  little optimistic grain-wise

good luck with your grow dude!


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: rulesq]
    #18282771 - 05/18/13 09:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rulesq said:
Just this monday i noc'd a jar(2,5 liters by volume), filled with 2dl of popcorn, used a print of Pcola and the first signs of myc growth appeared three days later..

So far so good,  gonna use it for g2g transfers. My 2nd attempt to grow(ever) btw. frst one failed miserably, scored a contam hat trick with green&black mold and what i suspect was a bacterial growth(smelled like strawberry yoghurt). Came to a conclusion that its time to do some serious spring cleaning :grin: 2nd conclusion was that my grain-to-spore ratio was a  little optimistic grain-wise

good luck with your grow dude!





Are you using a still air box, any attempts i made at inoculating without a still air box usually ended in 90% failure to molds. If your not using a SAB you could well be contaminating syringes you make from a print as well as the print itself.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18282800 - 05/18/13 09:16 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not condoning the lack of a pressure cooker, but what people often do not mention, is how rye in particular has more bacterial issues than other grains. 

  Odd as it may be, I've seen folks in Europe pull off these popcorn grows with no PC.


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OfflineNewtimer
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Re: 6 days popcorn substrate no sign mycelium [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18282832 - 05/18/13 09:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It shakes up just fine, i inject in three spots middle and both sides. Colonized thick and steady in middle first. Believe it or not I'm not using still air box just small bathroom which is sprayed to hell with Lysol. I even took a real healthy jar of creeper and opened it five days ago and opened three jars that were not showing mycelium. Scraped out some healthy whites and tossed em in the other jars. They took like wild fire. Showing fast colonization. So far I've been pretty lucky with no molds and great results out if all my jars now only five have nothing all the one strain of Cambodian. All others are beautiful white fuzzys eating up all the popcorn in their warm beds. Can't wait to see how my new three strains take to the corn, split half white/ yellow corn. I also heard to fruit with something nutritional is that the case or popcorn would be good alone with vermiculight?

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