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Subverted


Registered: 01/02/13
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Enlil]
#18227356 - 05/07/13 01:46 PM (11 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: At this point, the only evidence you have are some statements from a Hollywood actor/producer/tech advisor. Is that really enough for you?
Well, there is Room 641A and who knows how many rooms like it.
The people in this thread might be a bit paranoid...but the surveillance state is coming, and quickly.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Subverted]
#18227442 - 05/07/13 02:04 PM (11 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Subverted said: The people in this thread might be a bit paranoid...but the surveillance state is coming, and quickly.
Well they try....but....If you don't use strong encryption, you are just lazy.
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fastfred
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18230066 - 05/07/13 10:47 PM (11 years, 14 days ago) |
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> The people in this thread might be a bit paranoid...but the surveillance state is coming, and quickly.
I don't think we're paranoid. We're basically stating what the government has already admitted or what is known to exist.
We know the CIA has aggressively collected satellite and other international communications for decades. That's pretty much their mission statement, and I don't think anybody has a problem with that. Most don't even care that domestic communications between US citizens are also sometimes caught in that net.
We also know they have large data centers co-located at major telcom company facilities and are plugged directly into the main pipes that our communications go through.
We also know the Patriot act allows warrantless wiretaps, and abuse of this has already been admitted by the administration.
I don't see what more evidence you expect. They're not just going to disclose details of classified national security operations. If that EVER happens it will be at least a few decades after they consider those details to no longer be strategically important. Since it's an ongoing thing it's pretty doubtful it will ever happen.
>> We know they're doing warrantless wiretaps > Source?
Check the link I posted earlier. Warrantless wiretaps are authorized by the patriot act. They've been criticized many times in the press, and the administration has also admitted this has been abused. "Overcollecting" I think was the official term.
Of course this is not for average American citizens, it's supposedly only for terrorists and dealing with national security issues. So you're fine unless you're involved in any way with terrorist activities like explosives, guns, chemicals, drugs, money laundering, or subversive groups.
Since marijuana funds terrorism, if you smoke weed you're a national security threat and can be wiretapped.
Quote:
That's a whole lot of assumptions...
I don't see how assuming the worst of your government is any better than assuming the best of it.
At this point, the only evidence you have are some statements from a Hollywood actor/producer/tech advisor. Is that really enough for you?
I'm not sure what you think is an assumption. I started this whole thing off by discounting the news story interview as old news. If you doubt anything specific I've mentioned then let me know, I'll try to dig up a source or basis.
I'm not assuming the worst of the government, simply using some inductive reasoning. If we knew the gov. had a secret $1M supercomputing program, and we take what they admit to having, and combine that with what we know other countries/universities/companies have, it would be pretty safe to extrapolate that they have a certain amount more capability than what is known of.
In any case, I can't see any other logical interpretation of the evidence. They've put in large datacenters on the main domestic pipes. There's no other credible explanation other than that they are collecting domestic data.
There's legal info on the data centers available.
Check this out Enlil... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepting_v._AT%26T
Seems pretty real to me. If this or anything else is BS or debunked, anyone please let me know. I'd like to hear your legal opinion on it. I haven't looked into the paperwork, but as a layperson I'd figure there must be some meat in the EFF lawsuit.
Things like this seem to pop up every so often. I can't help but think back and wonder what ever happened to those stories. To me, it would be foolish to just forget about them and just figure it was resolved. Usually if I bother to look back I just find that everyone just forgot about it.
-FF
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Subverted


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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: fastfred]
#18230443 - 05/08/13 12:07 AM (11 years, 14 days ago) |
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fastfred said: I don't think we're paranoid.
I think we most definitely are paranoid and rightfully so. It is only crazy to be paranoid when nobody is actually snooping around.
I also think you misunderstood my stance, but its ok I was pretty vague. While I agree with most of the points made...with encryption most all of the concerns are eliminated, as Alan pointed out.
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Shins
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Subverted]
#18231139 - 05/08/13 04:14 AM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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fastfred
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Shins]
#18232522 - 05/08/13 12:47 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
While I agree with most of the points made...with encryption most all of the concerns are eliminated, as Alan pointed out.
I don't think hardly any voice is encrypted, and when and who you communicate with is probably almost just just as useful to them as the content.
Strong encryption is a great thing for privacy. I couldn't find any stats, but I'd figure that only a very tiny percent of email is encrypted. You have to figure that they would take special interest in encrypted messages.
Anybody want to send an encrypted message to some Al-Qaeda related email address and see what happens?
Encryption would work better if the gov. exposed more of their data collection operations or flat out eliminated any perceived protections for email and voice. Then everybody would use it. Right now I would think that using encryption would get you on some sort of list pretty quickly. Of course, that's just speculation, but it's what I would do in their shoes, with their resources and authorities.
-FF
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: fastfred]
#18233196 - 05/08/13 03:04 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Right now I would think that using encryption would get you on some sort of list pretty quickly. Of course, that's just speculation, but it's what I would do in their shoes, with their resources and authorities.
I don't think using encryption will get you on a list. If so you'd be on a list with a bunch of crypto nerds and privacy advocates. A lot of people use encryption for the principle of it.
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Enlil
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18233269 - 05/08/13 03:18 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Not to mention the fact that AES encryption would take forever to break with a brute force attack.
Well...not forever, but until long after we're extinct.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#18233458 - 05/08/13 03:59 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Anonymous
Reason for deletion: f
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Enlil
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Anonymous #1] 1
#18233860 - 05/08/13 05:31 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yes. I don't even believe they have one that can crack it in 1000 years.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#18233924 - 05/08/13 05:48 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Anonymous
Reason for deletion: f
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Enlil
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Anonymous #1]
#18233952 - 05/08/13 05:53 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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3 million processors wouldn't do shit, bro...
"To put this into perspective: on a trillion machines that each could test a billion keys per second, it would take more than two billion years to recover an AES-128 key"
http://www.scmagazineuk.com/has-the-advanced-encryption-standard-been-broken-or-weakened/article/210146/
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#18234015 - 05/08/13 06:05 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Post deleted by Anonymous
Reason for deletion: f
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Stonehenge
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Anonymous #1]
#18234684 - 05/08/13 08:33 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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>If they eliminate women and children, which don't fit the profile
They are going to kill all women and children? That sounds harsh even for the govt. Or they won't bother recording anything a female or under 21 person says? Why would they exclude that group? A woman is on the fbi most wanted list right now. Women and under 21's do lots of murders and other crimes every year. Ethnic gangs are made up of mostly that age group in many cities.
They aren't building that data center in utah for nothing. That is a fact. Worst president ever? Lets wait till he finishes his last term before deciding.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Anonymous #1]
#18235417 - 05/08/13 11:20 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Anonymous said: LOL!!! You really think the NSA doesn't have a super computer capable of breaking any AES encryption within minutes? 
I'm sure that they want you to think that, but I don't think they can. If they can crack it, they don't appear to have ever used the capability in a meaningful way.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Enlil]
#18235444 - 05/08/13 11:29 PM (11 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Not to mention the fact that AES encryption would take forever to break with a brute force attack.
Well...not forever, but until long after we're extinct.
The amount of time encryption takes to crack depends on the length of the password. That's why my passwords are over 32 characters long.
If you have a 6 character password, it doesn't matter what encryption you use, that shit will be broken very quickly.
It also depends on the size of the data. Something the size of a hard drive takes WAY longer to crack than a text file.
Edited by nooneman (05/08/13 11:32 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Anonymous #1] 2
#18236296 - 05/09/13 03:19 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous said: Interesting.
Personally I dont care what the government reads. Only people with things to hide are paranoid

why are you posting anon then?
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fastfred
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Shins]
#18238286 - 05/09/13 01:57 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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It's not practical for the gov. to be trying to break encryption. As was mentioned, the calculations are far to large. It's also very easy to up the encryption level, so if there's ever any remote possibility that the encryption scheme has become compromised people would just increase the level.
I think the weakness is that they still know who and when you're communicating with in most cases, and because only a small proportion of people use encryption it would seem to potentially make you stand out as more of a target for surveillance.
Quote:
they won't bother recording anything a female or under 21 person says? Why would they exclude that group? A woman is on the fbi most wanted list right now. Women and under 21's do lots of murders and other crimes every year. Ethnic gangs are made up of mostly that age group in many cities.
It's all a numbers game since, despite their resources, they can't possibly listen to everybody. Since the vast majority of crime and terrorism is perpetrated by adult or teenage males, it is reasonable to assume that they focus their finite resources on them.
-FF
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: fastfred]
#18238543 - 05/09/13 02:53 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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fastfred said: I think the weakness is that they still know who and when you're communicating with in most cases
That's rarely the case anymore with email, for example. The government sees your connection to the mail server, and that's it - Even the headers are encrypted by default now. They would know that you are sending an email to a gmail user, and the size of the email, but that's all they could deduce from sniffing your packets unless you are using seriously outdated mail clients.
Most ISP's are starting to shut down these non-encrypted services, forcing all their users to use encryption for all email related connections.
Quote:
and because only a small proportion of people use encryption it would seem to potentially make you stand out as more of a target for surveillance.
As someone who has sniffed internet backbones at a large peering point, I disagree that encryption is rarely used.
Sendmail now defaults to using strong encryption if it's available, and that's been the default for years. This is the reason most email uses tcp port 587 now instead of 25. That alone is a HUGE amount of encrypted data. Add SSH and SSL to that, and you'll see that a large portion of standard internet connections use military grade encryption. Your mail client probably encrypts POP and IMAP connections without you realizing it. The amount of plaintext flying around the internet decreases every day.
From a network security perspective, failing to use encryption is lazy and foolish. Sending passwords in plain text has been a faux paus for 20 years now. People still do it, but less and less...
Try downloading Wireshark, it's free and will show you the contents of all the packets you are sending.
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CidneyIndole
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Re: Former FBI Agent Confirms the Surveillance State Is Real [Re: Enlil]
#18238764 - 05/09/13 03:47 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's a whole lot of assumptions...
I don't see how assuming the worst of your government is any better than assuming the best of it.
At this point, the only evidence you have are some statements from a Hollywood actor/producer/tech advisor. Is that really enough for you?
1- I don't know what in your experience dictates you should expect the best of human behavior (especially when money and power come into the equation) but from what I've seen, governments don't always play by the rules, or do the "right" thing. Even believing that you're doing good, and doing "the right thing" does not always mean it's so. Good intentions and pavement, or something like that...
2- Forget the screenwriter (although lots of retired professionals have gone on to consult for hollywood and tried to get their foot in the door-- who doesn't want to be rich and famous?) This is not a court of law, and we do not have to consider only the facts of the case before us, excluding other evidence. And the totality of what I've seen suggests to me that FF may have some good points here.
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