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InvisibleSclorch
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Testing for Swaminess
    #1815561 - 08/15/03 01:28 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

How can you be sure that your guru/swami/master/spiritual leader is legit?

I suggest a rectal examination... but that's just me.


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1815578 - 08/15/03 01:38 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

mental examination proves alot more effective when you have nothing better to do than hang out in a spiritual forum disrespecting people.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1815598 - 08/15/03 01:44 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

fuck you all


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Dogomush]
    #1815602 - 08/15/03 01:46 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

*puppy dog eyes* Me, too?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1815607 - 08/15/03 01:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

None of you have answered my question.

(if my answer is too distracting, just cover it up with your hand)

Thanks.


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1815618 - 08/15/03 01:52 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

what exactly do you mean by "legit?"

faithful to his/her/its beliefs?


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Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


Edited by eric_the_red (08/15/03 02:02 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: eric_the_red]
    #1815621 - 08/15/03 01:54 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, sure... whatever...

What makes them "not a phony"?
You know... how can you be sure your second mortgage is guaranteed to buy authentic spiritual insight?


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1815628 - 08/15/03 01:56 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

light them on fire
if they don't burn they're legit


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1815637 - 08/15/03 01:58 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

LOL!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1815649 - 08/15/03 02:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Uh, I thought this was a test for Smarmyness - nevermind...


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1816023 - 08/15/03 05:12 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

If the teachings can be verified in some way, then the teacher is legit. If they can't be verified, it's impossible to tell. If they can't be verified and the teacher wants you to pay money anyway, then consider buying the Brooklyn Bridge from me instead. It's a much better investment, trust me on this!


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1816042 - 08/15/03 05:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i suggest walking through india for years with nothing but a few clothes and begging for alms, and searching for a legit master...he'll reveal himself to ya

its a good place to start

eat mud if you get too hungry


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1816123 - 08/15/03 06:35 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

In the article HOW TO RECOGNIZE ENLIGHTENMENT there is a story about the Buddha that goes like this:

When the Buddha was walking along the road to Benares following his post-Enlightenment pause he was approached by a wandering ascetic. According to the custom of the time the ascetic greeted him and asked who his teacher was or what doctrine he followed. The Buddha told the wanderling that he was "the Victor and Conqueror of the World, superior to gods and men, an All-Enlightened One beholden to no teacher." The wandering ascetic could see no hint of anything of the Buddha's nature and wandered off as wanderlings are oft to do, mumbling under his breath something like, "If it were only so!"

So even if you do meet an enlightened being, you may not know it.

And later on, the Buddha taught his followers to verify the truth through their own experience. In the Kalama Sutta he even recommended people to become skeptics:

Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.'

And I think that's good advice. Not because Buddha said so, but because it works well for me too.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1816592 - 08/15/03 12:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i suggest walking through india for years with nothing but a few clothes and begging for alms

As India is already crowded and it's resources overtaxed, should many Americans go there to beg? I think we need more people contributing materially rather than being parasitic. Being a leech seems quite selfish. (You work and provide for me as I only have time to focus on the "spiritual" world!)


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1816622 - 08/15/03 12:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

He he he he. Good one Swami!


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Anonymous

Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Autonomous]
    #1816722 - 08/15/03 01:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you guys obsess way too much over enlightenment.

who cares?

we should all just get together and share experience and learn from one another.

"enlightenment" is an ego thing. its really not even something to worry about.


Edited by immaculate (08/15/03 01:26 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1816748 - 08/15/03 01:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

who cares?

As many here choose ideologies and teachings based on personalities claiming to be wise or enlightened men (and women), should there not be some way to validate them?

When you go to a doctor, you want to see a diploma and certification, Yet one's spiritual life, which is allegedly much more important, is oft times attached to the latest and most popular "teacher" or author.


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Anonymous

Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1816760 - 08/15/03 01:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

good point.

validate the idealogies, not the person. the person who you learned from is pointless. information is pure, we arent responsible for it existing, we just 'know' and share it.

yes i want to see a diploma when i go to a doctor. but i think thats far more important than a spiritual teacher, or whatever.

i dont get it. its all an ego thing. the source of the information doesnt really matter. its what you do with it, whether its logical and sensible to you. learning and evolving. people seem to have forgotten that.

i dunno, im rambling. i never post here cuz i cant order my thoughts well enough, and my grammar skills are terrible. college should change that. whatever.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1816791 - 08/15/03 01:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> When you go to a doctor, you want to see a diploma and certification

There is no accreditation board for spiritual leaders... probably because there is no way to verify that a spiritual leaders faith is valid or not... nobody that I know has come back to life with tangible proof that their faith system is the correct one.

> How can you be sure that your guru/swami/master/spiritual leader is legit?

Anybody that tries to teach others is a victim of their own ego at best, or simply a con artist at worst.  I have been guilty of this myself, as many of us have.  Nobody can say with 100% certainty that their system is the correct one.  The louder somebody shouts that they know the secrets of truth, the faster I run away from them.

> I suggest a rectal examination...

Perhaps a bit messy, but as good of a method as any.  :grin:

If your question is serious, here is my recommendation... look for people that are happy in everything that they do.  People that don't try to force their own methods upon anybody else.  People that are reluctant to 'share their secrets' with others.  People that would never claim to be able to teach or show you the way.  Emultate these people and find within yourself what they have already discovered.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1816792 - 08/15/03 01:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

A real Swami has to know about the other side....


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1816801 - 08/15/03 01:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

validate the idealogies, not the person. the person who you learned from is pointless. information is pure, we arent responsible for it existing, we just 'know' and share it.

Sounds good, but take a book like "Seat of the Soul" by Gary Zhukov. After reading it, I can neither validate the author nor the teachings and therein lies the problem with adopting esoteric ideas.



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Anonymous

Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1816903 - 08/15/03 02:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

exactly.

thats why you dont adopt them, you explore them. you never stop exploring. when you do, your mindset stagnates and you become dogmatic. and no one likes a dogmatic asshole.

beliefs are useless. ideas are the only thing that matters.


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1816951 - 08/15/03 02:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Realized souls exist.... People with completely pure minds are the strongest ones in the world (I know this from experience of being around Saints and Monks)

but they arent gonna go on tv and do magic tricks.... you gotta go out and search for truth in this world and you cant expect it to fall in your lap

it also takes a good ammount of interest in the subject
and a pinch of effort here and there


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1816976 - 08/15/03 02:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't think the strongest people in the world would need the safety net of religion.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1816986 - 08/15/03 02:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
I wouldn't think...



You must not let thinking get in the way of believing.  If everyone were to succumb to this, the structures of all religious and political institutions would collapse.  :wink:


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Autonomous]
    #1817000 - 08/15/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> You must not let thinking get in the way of believing. If everyone were to succumb to this, the structures of all religious and political institutions would collapse

Doh... too late... Time to sclorch the planet and start over...


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Seuss]
    #1817004 - 08/15/03 02:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

LOL!


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1817008 - 08/15/03 03:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
I wouldn't think the strongest people in the world would need the safety net of religion.




their safety net is purification of the mind

that doesnt involve the politics of egotistical man which has tainted 'religion'

it involves many lifetimes of hard work to understand truth.

If you think that truth doesnt exist then what interests you in spirituality


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1817023 - 08/15/03 03:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rastafari said:
... their safety net is purification of the mind...
If you think that truth doesnt exist then what interests you in spirituality



Some of us seek increased awareness, knowledge and clarification rather than purification.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Autonomous]
    #1817026 - 08/15/03 03:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Autonomous said:
Quote:

Rastafari said:
... their safety net is purification of the mind...
If you think that truth doesnt exist then what interests you in spirituality



Some of us seek increased awareness, knowledge and clarification rather than purification.





Dark to Light, unpure to pure, unclear to clear... ignorance to knowledge

one is no different from the other


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1817090 - 08/15/03 03:29 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Mumbo to jumbo....

A difference that makes no difference is no difference.


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Anonymous

Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1817099 - 08/15/03 03:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dark to Light, unpure to pure, unclear to clear... ignorance to knowledge

one is no different from the other




that makes no sense at all.

dark and light are two totally different things. as are knowing and being ignorant.

you spiritual people confuse the shit out of me sometimes.

no one ever addressed my comments about not worrying about enlightenment or any of that crap and just learning and evolving.

i guess if you really need to soothe your ego.. but, whatever..


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1817132 - 08/15/03 03:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> dark and light are two totally different things

... and yet without one, the other could not exist.

> that makes no sense at all

Correct, but incorrect. It is obvious that they are different, but when experienced without beeing categorized, they are the same.

> no one ever addressed my comments about not worrying about enlightenment

As I have said before, enlightenment is pointless. This is what you said as well, if I understand you correctly.


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Anonymous

Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Seuss]
    #1817146 - 08/15/03 03:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

true.. but.. i mean.

just cuz something cant exist without something else doesnt mean theyre the same thing. they arent, i swear to god light and dark are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

its really pretty obvious..


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Methinks this is good advise [Re: Seuss]
    #1817262 - 08/15/03 04:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If your question is serious, here is my recommendation... look for people that are happy in everything that they do. People that don't try to force their own methods upon anybody else. People that are reluctant to 'share their secrets' with others. People that would never claim to be able to teach or show you the way. Emultate these people and find within yourself what they have already discovered.





I especially like that last part about finding within yourself what these people have already discovered.....


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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1817264 - 08/15/03 04:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> i swear to god light and dark are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

I once stayed at a hotel with a bunch of friends.  We each had our own rooms.  Everybody shared their room number with everybody else so we could hook up later.  When they asked what room I was in, I answered, "Room 5".

The next day when I see everybody at the conference, one of them exclaimed, "I looked all over, there IS NO ROOM 5".  I proudly led him back to my room and showed him the number on door...  101.

In base 2, 101 is the same as 5 is in base 10.

What we see as different in one light can be seen as the same in a different light.  This is something which must be experienced... I call tell stories and give analogies until I am blue in the face, but until it happens to you, you will not understand what I mean.

To say that everything is the same is as big of a mistake as saying that everything is different.  Keep your mind open to possibilities and try not to worry too much about it.  :smile:


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1817477 - 08/15/03 05:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mystical_Craven said:
Quote:

If your question is serious, here is my recommendation... look for people that are happy in everything that they do. People that don't try to force their own methods upon anybody else. People that are reluctant to 'share their secrets' with others. People that would never claim to be able to teach or show you the way. Emultate these people and find within yourself what they have already discovered.





I especially like that last part about finding within yourself what these people have already discovered.....





i agree !

beautiful words indeed


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1817559 - 08/15/03 05:51 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

If your question is serious, here is my recommendation... look for people that are happy in everything that they do. People that don't try to force their own methods upon anybody else. People that are reluctant to 'share their secrets' with others. People that would never claim to be able to teach or show you the way. Emultate these people and find within yourself what they have already discovered.

Aha! Go to the Special Olympics to find your guru...



--------------------



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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1817579 - 08/15/03 05:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

a swami wears the color of ocre to represent the burning of his ego in the fire of life

he doesnt wear he color of a computer monitor to represent the burning of his ego in the fire of shroomery.org bullatin boards does he?

there may be more truth in that than you think Swami (about the special olympics)

I think mentally challenged people are very spiritual.
a Saint said most of them come to this earth to work out their karma, not incur any more.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1817595 - 08/15/03 06:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

a swami wears the color of ocre to represent the burning of his ego in the fire of life
Wearing orange robes will not make a person one whit more nor less spiritual than wearing jeans and a polo shirt.

he doesnt wear he color of a computer monitor to represent the burning of his ego in the fire of shroomery.org bullatin boards does he?
Master's come in all guises. Are you so attached to form?

I think mentally challenged people are very spiritual.
And intellectual people are unspiritual? Using your logic, normal babies should have a section of their brain removed at birth to better help them karmically.

a Saint said most of them come to this earth to work out their karma, not incur any more.
Karma comes from errors in thought, judgement, and action which all humans make.


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1817733 - 08/15/03 06:41 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

A Senyassi (Swami, Renunciate)

was on a train, and he had his orange bag with his few posessions, and a man was sitting next to him with his bag...

The man said to him, you wear orange but you have a bag just like me,I dont see any difference between us.

the Senyassin took his bag and pushed it out the window

the guy said why did you do that???

he said with a smile, That is the difference between me and you... i'm not attached to that


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: ]
    #1817880 - 08/15/03 07:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

immaculate said:
true.. but.. i mean.

just cuz something cant exist without something else doesnt mean theyre the same thing. they arent, i swear to god light and dark are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

its really pretty obvious..




Haha.. true, but. Nah, no buts, mister. hehe

Two things not being able to exist together doesn't mean they are the same thing, but from a view from outside the schism, so to speak, they are One, just as everything is One.

Just as Seuss said, it is US that make the distinction of the difference.. it is up to us what we want to believe... people can debate and debate, people can tell you one thing is true, one isn't, the majority of people can tell you what is and isn't true, people can die for what they believe is true, but the fact of the matter is, it is up to YOU and what YOU want to believe.

People go off, thinking that there IS proof that something can't be true, fine, that is up to you. IT IS ALL UP TO YOU. People can cut me down now, for so openly saying this without tieing it down in reason, but our mind decides WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT ISN'T. They can tell you that it isn't like that, that your mind believing something is real doesn't make it real, because others "KNOW" it isn't real.. but it IS UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT ISN'T. We all have a purpose here to find, and we will find what we are suspossed to find. It is up to you..
Peace.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1818172 - 08/15/03 10:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

the Senyassin took his bag and pushed it out the window

The Senyassin was a drug smuggler and the other guy on the train was a narcotics officer...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineShadowsEnd
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1818285 - 08/15/03 11:00 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"the Senyassin took his bag and pushed it out the window

the guy said why did you do that???

he said with a smile, That is the difference between me and you... i'm not attached to that "


A true display of ego. What a waste... He could have at least gave his cloths to someone who really needed them.



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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: ShadowsEnd]
    #1818531 - 08/16/03 12:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

did the bag contain clothes?


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineShadowsEnd
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: CleverName]
    #1818536 - 08/16/03 12:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Even if the bag contained nothing.... He still wasted a good bag. He could have givin it to someone who really needed a bag.

I bet it was full of money. Lots and lots of money.


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: ShadowsEnd]
    #1818540 - 08/16/03 12:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ShadowsEnd said:
"the Senyassin took his bag and pushed it out the window

the guy said why did you do that???

he said with a smile, That is the difference between me and you... i'm not attached to that "


A true display of ego. What a waste... He could have at least gave his cloths to someone who really needed them.






He did. Most ghettos are situated upon the side of train tracks, i'm sure the parcel made it to the person who was supposed to receive it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: ShadowsEnd]
    #1818542 - 08/16/03 12:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

A true display of ego. What a waste...

Exactly. "Look at me! See how unattached I am!"


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1818672 - 08/16/03 01:39 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

your attached to talking shit arent you?


I hear your an older fellow... I find it sad that you spend all day long picking at peoples threads on the shroomery bullatin boards

i hope you start reading more spiritual books and seeking peace of mind

"O divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
To be consoled as to console,
To be understood as to understand..." - St. Francis of Assisi


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1818693 - 08/16/03 01:46 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

forgive swami.
he knows not what he does :wink:


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1818705 - 08/16/03 01:51 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

i do forgive him

i was just under the stars and i was thinking about him as a little baby with his mom and how much love i have for them

i appologize for my ego... I need to substitute the time I spend here for watching mars in the sky and clearing my mind

thank you all

much love


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1818728 - 08/16/03 01:59 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

As for the topic of this post:

Life is the guru

In life, you have experiences. Try to learn from them.

In life you meet people. Try to learn from them.

The guru is everywhere

I've met people who claimed to be gurus that were just con artists. I still managed to learn from them. I've learned things from the garbage man and the guy that makes my coffee. I've learned from twisted psychedelic experiences and boring, mundane tasks.

The teacher is always present. the student must only open his eyes


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'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1818740 - 08/16/03 02:04 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"The Seeker is his own true Guide" - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1818978 - 08/16/03 03:25 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

your attached to talking shit arent you?

Most all of your replies are personal. You espouse love even as you attack angrily while contributing little.

Your quaint and borrowed train fable says nothing of your experience. Why not tell us all how to detect an authentic realized soul?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1819034 - 08/16/03 03:44 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

okay now that you've tried to find negative things in everything i've ever said


will you try to find some positive ones


much love


ps. i didnt 'attack angrily' I was asking why you were doing that... a cuss word doesnt mean i'm angry...

i dont like flinging poop when there are roses around to be smelled


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819038 - 08/16/03 03:45 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

to detect an authentic realized soul, he will reveal himself to you

and you wont find one if your not looking


let us not so much seek to be understood as to understand.


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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819047 - 08/16/03 03:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Is this an example of doublespeak?

Maybe I should start a thread on doublespeak...


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819079 - 08/16/03 04:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

ps. i didnt 'attack angrily' I was asking why you were doing that... a cuss word doesnt mean i'm angry...

My questions when trying to understand are "talking shit"? OK, that is not a belittling or negative comment, now is it?

How is this, "Every word you say is a pearl and I agree whole-heartedly." Of course this IS a discussion and debate board where ideas are put to the test.

Koombayah, oh koombayah!


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Swami]
    #1819110 - 08/16/03 04:23 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I didnt realize that this was a debate forum

I thought a spiritual forum would be people communing to exchange positive vibes


It would seem to be a rare thing to hear you agree with me on anything, since you disregard my positive intentions to find something flawed in my words


if every piece of critisism is negative, how do you expect me to understand your point of view

and yeah its not the best way I could have put it, I appologize

it would be nice to exchange some mutual respect for a change...


--------------------
I&I


Edited by Rastafari (08/16/03 05:16 AM)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819206 - 08/16/03 05:23 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

My impression is that this forum is both of the things you mentioned.

"Philosophy" literally means love of knowledge. And the limits of knowledge are widened by analysis and criticism. How can that be non-constructive?

I suggest in all friendliness that you just go with the flow here in S&P and keep sharing and learning without getting hung up on any comments that you didn't expect.


Edited by Rhizoid (08/16/03 05:24 AM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1819210 - 08/16/03 05:26 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"How can you be sure that your guru/swami/master/spiritual leader is legit?"

I've found the best way to ensure that your "guru/swami/master/spiritual leader" is "legit" is to BE YOUR OWN LEADER.

And even THAT won't "ensure" legitimacy, because hopefully we've all learned that WE CAN ALL BE WRONG AT TIMES.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (08/16/03 05:27 AM)


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1819219 - 08/16/03 05:38 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

sometimes i think there has been a lack of love... critisism with love is much different than egotistical battles....

I like the philosophy part... but i have come to expect unconstructive comments around here more and more... and I guess thats the way of the world... i've been blessed with people who love me unconditionally in my life, so i guess i am used to more constructive critisism...

so I conclude that I need to be around my family most of all because love is the strongest medicine there is...

i'm also starting to feel more and more everyone in the world is my family... i think i should cultivate that


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819280 - 08/16/03 07:40 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rastafari said:
I like the philosophy part... but i have come to expect unconstructive comments around here more and more... and I guess thats the way of the world... i've been blessed with people who love me unconditionally in my life, so i guess i am used to more constructive critisism...





Perhaps you are ATTACHED to constructive critisism. When you say that you are used to constructive critisism, maybe it is coming out now, so you can learn what is needed to learn from it... living an Enlightened life unchallenged isn't the same as living an Enlightened life challenged.

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
I've met people who claimed to be gurus that were just con artists. I still managed to learn from them. I've learned things from the garbage man and the guy that makes my coffee. I've learned from twisted psychedelic experiences and boring, mundane tasks.

The teacher is always present. the student must only open his eyes




This is what it is about. Everyone is our teacher, even the person who posts on the Shroomery that challenges what you say, obviously, he is there to give you your lesson... I can't say what that lesson is, because it is not me, but it seems like it might have something to do with not letting people take you down, etc.. see, I don't know, but somewhere, you do.

I like a lot of your ideas, but it sort of seems you may have not had your ideas TESTED yet, which is of course what will happen. Don't let the tests discourage you, but let them reaffirm your faith, man.
Peace.





--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Methinks this is good advise [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1819453 - 08/16/03 12:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I've met people who claimed to be gurus that were just con artists.

You have not shared your method of determining a "real" guru.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1819463 - 08/16/03 12:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

How can you be sure that your guru/swami/master/spiritual leader is legit?

By his title...


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1819781 - 08/16/03 02:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"You have not shared your method of determining a "real" guru."

If you mean 'guru' in the sense of a fellow human being who teaches spiritual knowledge, i would say that all people are gurus in one sense or another.

I dont understand the elitism attached to this term.

I will say that most people who make the claim that they are a 'guru' are just con artists. Most of the people I've met with a high degree of spiritual knowledge were not interested in teaching it to others for any amount of money.


--------------------
'You can go to a hospital
Get yourself cleaned out.'


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1819826 - 08/16/03 03:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

yea i'm attached to love... so when i feel a lacking of it i naturally want to go back to it... i dont think theres anything wrong with attaching ourselfs to positive things...might not be the way to enlightenment but it does make us able to show more love to others

and i agree...everybody in the world has something to teach me... I hope I try to look for that more

thank you

and there are alot of guru con artists out there unfortunately....but people who have purified their minds do exist... i dont think jesus was a con artist but perhaps some of the people who edited the bibles over the centuries were...the good points in the bible override the political contredictions in my mind
I think a guru is somone who teaches us to serve others selflessly and alleviate the suffering of the world
also the guru could come in a disguised form of a person doing wrong...to show you what not 2 do

hence we've got somethign to learn from everybody


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1819893 - 08/16/03 03:35 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rastafari said:
yea i'm attached to love... so when i feel a lacking of it i naturally want to go back to it... i dont think theres anything wrong with attaching ourselfs to positive things...might not be the way to enlightenment but it does make us able to show more love to others





Well, being attached to love is better, I guess, than being attached to security, sensation, or power.. but what are you like when you are in a situation that isn't so loving, does it effect your loving attitude?

Attachment to anything is a bad thing.. preferences to something aren't, however. Preferences work like this: you PREFER to have something, but if you don't get it, it doesn't affect you at all, as, after all, it was only a preference. See?

The only thing with attaching ourselves to anything, negative or positive, is that you are still attached.. tied to the ground.. we should only really be attached to the essentials, as being attached to anything else is only bound to bring suffering sooner or later...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1820069 - 08/16/03 04:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

also the guru could come in a disguised form

Yet, you stated unequivocably that I am not a "real" Swami. It is hard to follow you. A swami must come from a lineage according to your view, but where did the first swami get his authentication?

BTW how do you know if a challenge to an idea is backed by love or not? By the "tone"? That is a huge assumption based on how your ego perceives it. Con artists, lawyers, politicians and others often use pleasing and flattering words as a form of manipulation, yet there is no love behind the sweet and comforting phrases.

A student of the spirit looks to see beyond the surface and the form.


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1820143 - 08/16/03 05:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you would have to study on the liniage if you were curious about how it started

its like this; your not a fransiscan monk because you dont wear a robe and have a roserie...its a simple thing... you cant claim to be one because you arent familar enough with the subject

at heart we are all a fransiscan monk but we have yet to manifest it completely

I'll tell you this much, monks dont hang out on the computer all day having debates.


--------------------
I&I


Edited by Rastafari (08/16/03 05:07 PM)


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1820150 - 08/16/03 05:08 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Rastafari said:
yea i'm attached to love... so when i feel a lacking of it i naturally want to go back to it... i dont think theres anything wrong with attaching ourselfs to positive things...might not be the way to enlightenment but it does make us able to show more love to others





Well, being attached to love is better, I guess, than being attached to security, sensation, or power.. but what are you like when you are in a situation that isn't so loving, does it effect your loving attitude?





i try to respond instead of react..but that takes alot of work in this world

I think attachment to the physical forms of your family is a set up for alot of sadness when they die...but if you keep the wisdom of love they have taught you in your heart always, that can be motivation to overcome all of the negative things in the world

much love


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1820306 - 08/16/03 05:46 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rastafari said:
i try to respond instead of react..but that takes alot of work in this world





How do you respond, what do you mean by that?

Quote:


I think attachment to the physical forms of your family is a set up for alot of sadness when they die...but if you keep the wisdom of love they have taught you in your heart always, that can be motivation to overcome all of the negative things in the world





Attachment to anything will bring you suffering when that anything is not in your hands.. Some people aren't taught the "wisdom of love" by their family.. a lot of people are not set up by their parents to overcome all the negative things of the world. I don't think this applies here, man. I know what you are trying to say, but it doesn't have anything to do with the subject of attachment.. which, is, of course, off topic from Testing for Swamines..hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1820736 - 08/16/03 08:03 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Rastafari said:
i try to respond instead of react..but that takes alot of work in this world





How do you respond, what do you mean by that?

Quote:


I think attachment to the physical forms of your family is a set up for alot of sadness when they die...but if you keep the wisdom of love they have taught you in your heart always, that can be motivation to overcome all of the negative things in the world





Attachment to anything will bring you suffering when that anything is not in your hands.. Some people aren't taught the "wisdom of love" by their family.. a lot of people are not set up by their parents to overcome all the negative things of the world. I don't think this applies here, man. I know what you are trying to say, but it doesn't have anything to do with the subject of attachment.. which, is, of course, off topic from Testing for Swamines..hehe
Peace.





for the first part
what i mean by response instead of reaction is like ghandi and martin luther jr's methods of nonviolence... and if you dont react with the same hatred somone sends towards you, your ending that cycle

for the 2nd part I agree that i got off track on the subject of attachment

detachment is a very good thing... i think thats one of the ways to respond instead of react


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Offlinelucid
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1820745 - 08/16/03 08:06 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think the Litmus test for Swamihood would be levitation.
Then u'd have a real Jedi on your hands :grin:


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1821299 - 08/16/03 11:50 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

...and if you dont react with the same hatred somone sends towards you,

Who here is sending you hatred?


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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1821326 - 08/16/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

he asked for an example of how you respond instead of react


i never said anything about anyone here

/me hugs swami


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1821932 - 08/17/03 04:39 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

So... let me sum it all up....
THERE IS NO LITMUS TEST FOR SWAMINESS.

However.... I have a feeling that a simple sleaze test would suffice.... :wink:
*Sclorch feels the Vegas magnet and realizes that a return trip is inevitable*


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1821975 - 08/17/03 05:04 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

lol well put


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Rastafari]
    #1822334 - 08/17/03 11:30 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Sclorch: So... let me sum it all up....
THERE IS NO LITMUS TEST FOR SWAMINESS.


Rasatfari: Well put.

Yet, you were able to determine from a few posts that I am NOT a "real" Swami. You MUST have had some testing criterion.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1822576 - 08/17/03 02:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Swami, you've read 1984, right?
Remember doublethink?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Sclorch]
    #1822709 - 08/17/03 02:54 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I understand doublethink and doublespeak all too well.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1822719 - 08/17/03 02:56 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

trying to understand religion with political concepts is like trying to start a fire with water.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1822749 - 08/17/03 03:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You can freeze water into ice, then mold it into a lens to amplify the sun's rays and easily start a fire.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1822765 - 08/17/03 03:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

OK anthony hopkins :wink:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1822775 - 08/17/03 03:12 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

OK anthony hopkins

Damn you for revealing my true identity! Now I will have to get a new IP address and handle else I will be incessantly hounded by movie buffs.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: Swami]
    #1822836 - 08/17/03 03:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, and BTW... I seriously doubt that would work. I used to burn toy soldiers with a magnifier when I was a kid and I noticed that the surface of the lens had to be machine-polished smooth in order to focus the sun into a concentrated pinpoint necessary to ignite something. A rough, watery lens with lots of ripples and dents in the surface would not do it.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Testing for Swaminess [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1822853 - 08/17/03 03:32 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yes it would still work, just would not be nearly as efficient as polished glass or plastic.


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