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OfflineTerry M
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Spore fall time * 1
    #18139756 - 04/20/13 11:08 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I first posted this on another mushroom site, but it seems useful to post it here as well. I was answering a question about how fast a mold spore falls in front of a laminar flow hood.

A small particle falls and reaches its terminal velocity according to a simplified equation derived from Stokes' law:

v = 2r^2·pg/9n
where r=radius of particle, p=density of particle, g=acceleration of gravity, and n=viscosity of air

I found that here.

I couldn't resist filling in some numbers with the following assumptions:
a spore is maybe 10 microns in diameter, so r ~= 0.5 10^-6 meters
a spore is approximately the density of water

From the equation above, I calculated that the terminal velocity of a 10 micron spore is around 3x10^-3 meters/second. That's very slow! It will drop very little distance moving along with laminar flow air at 100 fpm.

This has interesting implications for a glove box. How long does this spore take to settle to the bottom of the glove box?
3x10^-3 meters/second = 0.18 meters/minute
If your glove box is 1/2 meter tall, it would take a little more than 2 1/2 minutes to fall from top to bottom.

Since v is proportional to r^2, what about a 5 micron particle instead of 10 microns? This would fall at 1/4 the speed, and would then take around 11 minutes to fall in your glove box. A 2.5 micron particle takes about 44 minutes to settle. This provides a rough guide for how long you should let the air in your glove box settle!

This is in line with general guidelines for using a glove box. Cool result, huh?


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OfflineMonkeyJesusFresco
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18140657 - 04/20/13 03:08 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

so...blast your glove box with lysol, let it set for an hour and most everything should be settled...cool results brah :smile:


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Offlinemycofever
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: MonkeyJesusFresco]
    #18140838 - 04/20/13 03:50 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Good write up. Thank you terry interesting information.


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Patience will help you keep your sanity.It will insure your success if you are patient in all aspects of mushroom growing.When you rush you are prone to make mistakes and all of your efforts are wasted.

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Offlineorison
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: mycofever]
    #18140844 - 04/20/13 03:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

very interesting..



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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: orison]
    #18140853 - 04/20/13 03:57 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Cool man.

Waiting time. 7 seconds
Hey they're all gonna die when the bleach vapor hits em bwahahahah


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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: mycofever]
    #18140867 - 04/20/13 04:00 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I don't even use Lysol. I just allow time for everything to fall to the bottom. And I sometimes absolutely need my GB even though I have a lab with a flow hood. Just last week I used it to isolate some clean mycelium from a plate infected with sporulating Penicillium mold. I didn't dare do this in the lab because my flow hood would likely blow contaminant spores around to infect the lab. The GB worked like a charm!


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Offlinemycofever
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18140876 - 04/20/13 04:04 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Good point, so a flowhood is not always the best thing to use as described.


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: mycofever]
    #18140917 - 04/20/13 04:14 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Well, like he said, in that case it would turn the lab into the mold zone.
Definitely.
  Man its a good idea to hit the whole space with clorox water.
I use one of those big garden sprayers. Spray bleach water high into the air and on the floor and leave. Come back later  & mop with bleach water. Do it again & its a clean place.

Of all products available for sterilizing air & surface, I advocate bleach as the staple for mycology, culturing , surgery and brewing


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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18141040 - 04/20/13 04:52 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I use a couple of gallons of diluted bleach on my entire lab once a month. The ceiling and walls drip with it, the floor is covered with it. The air is so thick with buffered bleach solution you can't breath without a respirator! I let this settle for the rest of the day, by which time there's just an isolated puddle or two of water on the floor. I pushed my luck recently and tried waiting two months between lab sterilizations. FAIL! I got lots of contamination.

Fortunately, the standard bleach treatment restored the lab to excellent sterility. I tested this with plates opened in front of the flow hood for different amounts of time: 10, 15, 20, 30, 60 seconds, 2 and 5 minutes. The agar stayed absolutely clean, even on the 5 minute exposed plate!

Of course, your mileage may vary. No matter how clean I routinely keep the lab, I get mold growth from a hidden nook or cranny in this 150 year old house. Once every month perfectly controls it.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18141355 - 04/20/13 06:21 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Cool man.

Waiting time. 7 seconds
Hey they're all gonna die when the bleach vapor hits em bwahahahah



Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Well, like he said, in that case it would turn the lab into the mold zone.
Definitely.
  Man its a good idea to hit the whole space with clorox water.
I use one of those big garden sprayers. Spray bleach water high into the air and on the floor and leave. Come back later  & mop with bleach water. Do it again & its a clean place.

Of all products available for sterilizing air & surface, I advocate bleach as the staple for mycology, culturing , surgery and brewing




I use the clorox too.:thumbup: i physically handwash with soap and hot water everytime I use my GB. Then while its still wet i blast with bleach .




Terry, that was a cool little bit of math. :smile: Thanks for sharing that.

And I like how you still utilize the old GB when you have a hood! Thats smart thinking!


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #18142640 - 04/20/13 11:57 PM (11 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Man its a good idea to hit the whole space with clorox water.
I use one of those big garden sprayers. Spray bleach water high into the air and on the floor and leave. Come back later  & mop with bleach water. Do it again & its a clean place.




Quote:

I use a couple of gallons of diluted bleach on my entire lab once a month. The ceiling and walls drip with it, the floor is covered with it. The air is so thick with buffered bleach solution you can't breath without a respirator!




Damn!  Your lab is so big you need 20 gallons of bleach solution to swab it down?  WTF?

Go spend $15 on a UV light, flip it on when you leave or for an hours or two each day, and you'll be practically done with your sterilization.


-FF

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18143498 - 04/21/13 07:20 AM (11 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

Man its a good idea to hit the whole space with clorox water.
I use one of those big garden sprayers. Spray bleach water high into the air and on the floor and leave. Come back later  & mop with bleach water. Do it again & its a clean place.




Quote:

I use a couple of gallons of diluted bleach on my entire lab once a month. The ceiling and walls drip with it, the floor is covered with it. The air is so thick with buffered bleach solution you can't breath without a respirator!




Damn!  Your lab is so big you need 20 gallons of bleach solution to swab it down?  WTF?

Go spend $15 on a UV light, flip it on when you leave or for an hours or two each day, and you'll be practically done with your sterilization.

-FF




No, not 20 gallons. A couple means 2! The room is about 12'x14', and for bleach to be maximally effective, it should remain wet on surfaces for 20 minutes. That takes a lot of bleach. And better too much than too little.

UV light wouldn't work for my lab. For one thing, I also grow mushroom cultures in there. I have shelves full of inoculated bags, jars, petri dishes, and slant tubes. I don't wish to kill these cultures!

Besides the shelves, I also have a supply cabinet near the wall. And the wall behind the flow hood and table is shaded by them. UV light works line-of-sight only, so any shaded areas won't get sterilized.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18145888 - 04/21/13 05:18 PM (11 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

No, not 20 gallons. A couple means 2!




You said, "a couple of gallons of diluted bleach" which would be 20 gallons at standard 1:10 dilution.

1:10 dilution is the most effective surface sterilizer.  More or less is LESS effective, so if you're using a stronger concentration then it's worse than just wasteful.

Quote:

UV light wouldn't work for my lab. For one thing, I also grow mushroom cultures in there. I have shelves full of inoculated bags, jars, petri dishes, and slant tubes. I don't wish to kill these cultures!




Plastic and normal glass is opaque to UV.  Assuming you don't have open air cultures going UV should work well for you. 

Quote:

Besides the shelves, I also have a supply cabinet near the wall. And the wall behind the flow hood and table is shaded by them. UV light works line-of-sight only, so any shaded areas won't get sterilized.




Having 90% of the surfaces and air sterilized goes a long way towards staying clean.  You still have to swab things down occasionally and practice good technique even with UV.  You can't let dirt and grime pile up as that will shade the lower layers and allow contams to grow.

UV is just a handy tool that is quite effective when added to a proper setup.  It should either increase your success rate or cut your labor and chem usage depending on your current situation.


-FF

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18282742 - 05/18/13 08:45 AM (11 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Go spend $15 on a UV light, flip it on when you leave or for an hours or two each day, and you'll be practically done with your sterilization.
-FF




OK, you've convinced me FF! Now where do I get a $15 (or other reasonable price) complete short wavelength UV lamp including ballast that I can just plug in to 120 volts?

I see lots of inexpensive 9 watt G23 UV bulbs for sale on the Internet, but no complete, stand-alone, plug in unit.


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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18283988 - 05/18/13 02:22 PM (11 years, 3 days ago)

really interesting tipic, and thanks for the calculations!

maybe make sure you can switch the uv light on and off from outside the room, so you won't get exposed to it


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: forrest]
    #18285841 - 05/18/13 10:45 PM (11 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

OK, you've convinced me FF! Now where do I get a $15 (or other reasonable price) complete short wavelength UV lamp including ballast that I can just plug in to 120 volts?




Here is my quick guide on getting your UV going...

Google "g15t8 uv germicidal lamp".  Click on shopping, that should give you any number of sites.  I suggest the one that is the cheapest source, around $6.88.  You want one that is G15T8.  This should work in a F15T8 light fixture.  I recommend 1000bulbs.com, I've never had any problems with them and they seem to have the cheapest prices.

The measurements are often a little confusing.  Just remember to check the measurements or the numbers.  In F15T8, the "F15" refers to 15 watts, and the T8 refers to the diameter of the bulb and pin spacing.  The other number you need to check is the length.  18" is the typical length for this type.

Always use the proper wattage ballast for the bulb.  Don't think you can get away running a 30W bulb with a 25W ballast.  You can do it, but it doesn't fully light and you'll get poor output.  Many ballasts have a wattage range, so you might not have to use the exact same wattage bulb as the one that came out of it, but normally this is on the ballast and the manual will just list the recommended bulb.

Now go to your local MegaMart or hardware store.  Buy an 18" fluorescent light fixture for one 18", 15W bulb. Under-Cabinet types will usually have a switch on the cord or fixture and be cheaper.  Strip light type will be a little more and probably not have a switch, but they will be metal (withstands/reflects UV better).  They are about $8 and $14, respectively.  Make sure to take any plastic cover or diffuser off.

Now you've got a 15W, 18" germicidal lamp for just under $15.00! (shipping will bring this up a little)

Remember you're not trying to replace all your good sterile technique, such as swabbing down surfaces with disinfectant/IPA/1:10 bleach/etc.  But "LYSOL Professional Brand III Disinfectant" is $9.99 at my local MegaMart, and you can certainly reduce your disinfectant consumption significantly by letting UV do the work.  So it shouldn't take too long for the light to pay off.


-FF

Edited by fastfred (05/18/13 10:56 PM)

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18332396 - 05/28/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Received two 18" fluorescent fixtures last week, and my UV tubes just arrived! They'll start sterilizin' tonight. The two lights are mounted high up on opposite lab walls, and plugged into cheap mechanical light timers set to go on from 2AM to 3AM every night. Cost wasn't critical, hence the possible overkill with using two lights. I just didn't want to be spending $100 or more on one UV light, which looked like a distinct possibility for a bit. And having lights on opposite walls makes sense for better line-of-sight coverage, given the low cost of these devices.

Oh, and I'll still be keeping to my once a month bleach sterilization schedule, except it will take no more than 10 minutes instead of an hour. I'll be spraying nooks and crannies, hidden areas, plus drenching the antique steam radiator which is a mess of tortuous loops. Thanks, FF!


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Edited by Terry M (05/28/13 08:53 AM)

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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18334236 - 05/28/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Very interesting. I wonder how effective it is against mold & mold spores.
I have no experience with this


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18336473 - 05/29/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting theory Terry,

Your results are probably pretty good assuming said spores fall vertically  downwards but have you considered the idea that many spores have a very aerodynamic shape and may not necessarily fall directly downwards, even in a still air environment I believe it's possible that some types of spores may actually in a sense glide, if this is true then the maths you have done may not be so accurate, to get a more accurate idea of fall time the maths would become quite a bit more complicated and would require data from a study of the aerodynamic properties of fungi spores.


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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: inski]
    #18337030 - 05/29/13 06:33 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting idea, inski. But I'm afraid my own analysis must stop here, as the aerodynamics of different spore shapes is just too complex a subject for me to enter into! From the 5 minutes of google research I just did, it appears that at least simple shape modification from a sphere changes drag and therefore Reynolds number. All my computations assumed a smooth sphere. Changing the surface of a sphere from smooth to rough (spore ornamentation, which is common) simply increases the drag. Of course, this wouldn't apply to airfoil-shaped spores, if there actually were any. I dare not start performing wind tunnel experiments in viscous media, or do finite element analysis. I've had some experience in the latter, and believe me, it's not an area of computer modeling one can do easily!  :eek:


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18339595 - 05/29/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Very interesting. I wonder how effective it is against mold & mold spores.
I have no experience with this




UV is 100% effective on every living organism when you deliver the proper dose.  Pigments and coatings can shield things from UV to some extent.  But I'm not aware of anything that can survive an hour or two of decent UVC exposure.  It will sterilize the air (assuming no drafts) and relatively clean surfaces very effectively.


-FF

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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18341004 - 05/29/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Very interesting. I wonder how effective it is against mold & mold spores.
I have no experience with this




UV is 100% effective on every living organism when you deliver the proper dose.  Pigments and coatings can shield things from UV to some extent.  But I'm not aware of anything that can survive an hour or two of decent UVC exposure.  It will sterilize the air (assuming no drafts) and relatively clean surfaces very effectively.


-FF




Very interesting, I have never heard of this before. One question though, if you run a UV light in a room with quart jars full of colonizing spawn will it harm your spawn?

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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: chopstick]
    #18341386 - 05/30/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

There's lots of threads on here about people experimenting with uv...  Most of what I read, it seemed they did fine up till fruiting, where some flopped side by side with other lighting (most I read were using isolates iirc)

I also believe there was quite a bit of talk about mutations, especially a couple spore prints down the road from using it...    lots of reading on the subject, if you experiment please add more...

I'm debating getting a couple larger wattage uvc lamps myself as I live near a lake and mold counts are always so high in the area, but don't think I'll be exposing my mushrooms or their mycelium to it.

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Re: Spore fall time [Re: BloodKil]
    #18342071 - 05/30/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

> I'm debating getting a couple larger wattage uvc lamps myself

G30T8's (30W) fit into some daisy chain types of strip lighting with 25-35W ballasts.


Do not expose anything you want to remain living to UV light!  At least not for anything but the most brief, incidental exposures.

Plastics and most glass will block UV light.  The exception is quartz glass.  YMMV with any container type, and I would suggest some plastic to cover any glass if you're doing long exposures or high wattage.

It's certainly easy enough to find out how well your material blocks UV.


-FF

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18342209 - 05/30/13 07:42 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:

Do not expose anything you want to remain living to UV light!  At least not for anything but the most brief, incidental exposures.

Plastics and most glass will block UV light.  The exception is quartz glass. 




I'm counting on this, FF, or I'm in deep shit! My lab is also my grow room for plastic agar plates, glass slants, glass canning jars for grain culture, and clear plastic filter patch bags (from Fungi Perfecti). I've already started the UV treatments with cultured plates, grain jars, and spawned bags in the room.


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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18342780 - 05/30/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

An interesting observation:

My lab was just recently contaminated with dust mites. First time it ever happened. Whole stacks of freshly-poured plates had bacteria mite tracks all over them. I have one petri with live mites that I've saved. Checked under the microscope, and they are definitely dust mites roaming around on agar. The UV lights have cycled on the last few days, but the plastic petri dish covers blocked the UV. I have sticky mats to trap possible new ones before they get into any more unsealed petris that I will pour.
Tonight, before the UV lights lights cycle on, I shall perform a fiendish experiment! :hotidea:  I will take the cover off the dish with live mites (dish is on a sticky mat to contain them). The UV light should kill them all dead overnight. I'll check under the microscope in the morning.

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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18355842 - 06/01/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I will take the cover off the dish with live mites (dish is on a sticky mat to contain them). The UV light should kill them all dead overnight. I'll check under the microscope in the morning.




Mites are many times the size of a bacterium, spore, or hyphae.  Still, I would be shocked if they could survive a 20 minute dose.

You might want to mount your lights about midway on the walls to fry the floors really well.

I think it would be pretty fun to expose them and watch to find out exactly how long before they fry and how long it takes them to start reacting to it.  If you do that make damn well sure you use some protection for your eyes and cover/sunscreen ALL exposed skin.

You can pretty easily do experiments to check how well the glass blocks the UV.  I know plastic works very well.  Special quartz glass cuvettes for UV spectroscopy are very expensive, and I know from experience that plastic and regular glass doesn't work.  I always check specs I come across hoping somebody left a cuvette in it.

Edit:  From a quick search I see that most glass blocks UVC and UVB light, but allows most UVA through.  UVA can sometimes cause a little bit of sunburn, so you'll probably want to make sure you're being reasonable about the amount of time/exposure you're doing.  I would think the myc would have no problem with a little tan as long as it's not getting the UVC.


-FF

Edited by fastfred (06/01/13 11:10 PM)

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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18357030 - 06/02/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
An interesting observation:

My lab was just recently contaminated with dust mites. First time it ever happened. Whole stacks of freshly-poured plates had bacteria mite tracks all over them. I have one petri with live mites that I've saved. Checked under the microscope, and they are definitely dust mites roaming around on agar. The UV lights have cycled on the last few days, but the plastic petri dish covers blocked the UV. I have sticky mats to trap possible new ones before they get into any more unsealed petris that I will pour.
Tonight, before the UV lights lights cycle on, I shall perform a fiendish experiment! :hotidea:  I will take the cover off the dish with live mites (dish is on a sticky mat to contain them). The UV light should kill them all dead overnight. I'll check under the microscope in the morning.




I was shown at Aloha and have personally discovered that parafilm only slows them down!  Sticky mats is their and my first line of defense.

I would appreciate an update on the UV exposure as I am contemplating it for the hall leading into my lab.


--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: OICU812]
    #18357524 - 06/02/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Here's the latest.

I gave the opened plate of mites a 1 hour exposure to 2 15-watt UV sterilizing lights placed about 3 meters away. They are about 2 feet from the ceiling. The next morning, nearly all of them were dead. But some stragglers remained. I calculated that at this exposure (allowing for efficiency at 254 nm), the hardiest of microbes, Tuberculosis bacteria, should have been wiped out. All the visible bacteria on the agar plate were certainly obliterated.

The next night, I upped the dosage time to 2 hours. In the morning, there were maybe a few less mites, and moving slower. But definitely alive. And I've had the open plate on a sticky mat to catch any escapees. BTW, I noticed a tiny spider crawl across the sticky mat, completely unimpeded!

Mites are relatively large, and have tough exoskeletons. I'm guessing that's why UV wasn't 100% effective on them. But I'm still a believer in UV sterilization, and have ordered 2 more 15-watt lamps, so I'll have coverage from all four lab walls.

Oh, and all previous contamination in the lab has been from much tinier stuff, mainly Penicillium.

Edited by Terry M (06/02/13 10:00 AM)

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18360849 - 06/03/13 01:05 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Those exoskeletons must really be helping them survive.  I'd assume that they will eventually succumb though.  You might try checking to see if they die in a day or two from the UV dose you already gave them.


-FF

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: fastfred]
    #18362026 - 06/03/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Mite update:

I gave them another 2 hour dose last night. No obvious difference in the number alive and still crawling, dozens of them, vs. the previous day of 2 hours exposure. The total short wavelength, UV dosage over 3 days was 5 hours. Perhaps I had selected for the hardiest ones.

So today I tried my regular 10:1 dilution of household bleach, to see if it would kill the remainder. I misted the plate until the surface was wet, my standard application level. They now seemed to be swimming or floating in the solution.

After 10 minutes: Most killed, but a handful of survivors, some walking, some just moving their feet a little.

20 minutes: Fewer completely mobile ones, but still a fair number staying in place, moving some feet.

30 minutes: Found 2 remaining completely mobile one after looking around the plate quite a bit. 4 others were stationary, with just 1 or 2 slowly moving some feet.

40 minutes: Found 3 completely mobile mites, blithely moving around. Another 3 had a single barely moving front leg.

60 minutes: 4 mites found walking around freely. 5 mites seen with barely moving front legs.

So there was no significant difference in mites kiled after 30 minutes since bleach solution was first applied. I'll also check back later in the day.

Note that the above observations did not systematic cover the entire plate surface. It was a sampling using a magnification of 25x with a stereo microscope. The plate was moved around a fair amount for searching. Note also that the typical "until wet" application is supposed to last for 20 minutes until evaporated, as I understand it.

Conclusion: Mites are tough little buggers! Bleach solution is more effective against them than UV radiation. But bleach at a typical application level still doesn't kill 100% of mites.


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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18363859 - 06/03/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Terry:

If you have any specimens left, try alcohol for me.  It's my standard lab sanitizer when I am working and I would appreciate knowing if they can survive a dose of 70% solution.

Also, do you think they are getting into your lab under their own locomotion or hitching a ride on objects?

As they have exoskeletons, I am temped to dust my entrance with food grade Diatomaceous earth. 

For those who are unfamiliar with Diatomaceous Earth (often referred to as "DE"), it is an off white talc-like powder that is the fossilized remains of marine phytoplankton. When sprinkled on a bug, such as bed bugs, ants or fleas, that has an exoskeleton, (or when the bug walks through it) the DE gets caught between their little exoskeleton joints. As they move, the diatomaceous earth acts like razor blades and cuts them up. But it doesn't hurt mammals. In fact, we can eat it. Actually we do eat it without knowing it. It's in lots of grain based foods because lots of grains are stored with diatomaceous earth to keep the bugs from eating the grain.  It's also used in commercial animal feed as a natural  anthelmintic (dewormer).




--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: OICU812]
    #18364351 - 06/03/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OICU812 said:
Terry:

If you have any specimens left, try alcohol for me.  It's my standard lab sanitizer when I am working and I would appreciate knowing if they can survive a dose of 70% solution.

Also, do you think they are getting into your lab under their own locomotion or hitching a ride on objects?





Will give the 70% alcohol a try tomorrow. There should be some mites left alive to experiment on.

They are probably getting into my lab both ways. It is not well-sealed, being in an antique house with wooden window frames. There is an old steam radiator which has a floor hole around the steam pipe. God knows what is alive in the space below the floor. I spray lots of bleach in that spot monthly, but that's not going fix things 100%. There is no general room filtration or positive pressure. The door to the room is simply kept closed at all times other than entry and exit. There is no "air lock" or changing area. When I open the door, I step right into slippers which have shoe covers on them. But contaminants can still get in on clothing, since I'm only in hot, freshly dried clothes when doing sterile procedures, and not when in there to check plates and bags.

The good news is that when working under a flow hood, there should be pretty much no dust mites blowing out if it. Any decent prefilter should take them all out, as they are an enormous 250 by 400 microns in size. But the larvae are a tenth this size, and the eggs about 15 microns in diameter.

Never had a mite problem before, and I'm guessing that high humidity allowed them to flourish and spread. One thing I did differently just recently was to cover the freshly poured plates with their plastic sleeves, and leave these on. In the past, I've had them in stacks without the plastic wrapping. The covering could have increased humidity in the environment around the plate stack, and allowed mites to easily reproduce and move from one plate to another. I'm going back to my old unwrapped plate procedure. And the newly installed sticky mat (I had this hanging around, but saw no need of it before) should take care of any remaining plate spreading problems.


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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18366142 - 06/04/13 04:41 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting!

I have first hand experience with the damage they can do to a colonized plate.  I had a couple of infected Pleurotis djamour plates last year and discovered just how fast those little buggers can destroy a whole 100mm diameter plate of mycelium.  They plowed through that whole plate in about three days!

Just thinking about them makes me itchy.




--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: OICU812]
    #18367267 - 06/04/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

70% alcohol didn't appear to kill any. I used my alcohol squirt bottle to completely cover the agar. There was so much of it that it took around half an hour to dry. Mites did get a bit stuck in it, apparently due to water tension as the last bit of liquid dried. They dragged a significant trail as they moved their front legs.


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Liberté, égalité, humidité.

Edited by Terry M (06/04/13 03:21 PM)

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OfflineOICU812
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: Terry M]
    #18368840 - 06/04/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
70% alcohol didn't appear to kill any. I used my alcohol squirt bottle to completely cover the agar. There was so much of it that it took around half an hour to dry. Mites did get a bit stuck in it, apparently due to water tension as the last bit of liquid dried. They dragged a significant trail as they moved their front legs.




Well, looks like I had better develop a plan B for mites!




--------------------
--------------
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin

"Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin
----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson

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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: OICU812]
    #18479688 - 06/27/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Try sticking the culture in a plastic box or ziplock with moth balls inside. I was told this trick for mites on cultures by a well known microbiologist. I tried it a few years back and it killed them dead so I could then transfer material away. Use sticky mats too and never use anything other than parafilm, rubber or wax to close up cultures. No plastic wrap.

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OfflineTerry M
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Re: Spore fall time [Re: lipa]
    #18529050 - 07/08/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks Lipa. I'll try the mothball trick if I find any more mites. Which I hope will be never!


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