Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Myyco.com Pan Cyan Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | Next > | Last >
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
"V" Tek •Seed & Plastic• Myco Match from Heaven * 30
    #18135103 - 04/19/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Hello! :wave:

I am excited to share my spin on mushroom cultivation!
Though I am of course a student as always, I feel it's important for fellow learners to be exposed to more of the options that lay before them just as they lay before me.

With this approach to cultivating, all you need are a pressure cooker, sterilizable containers, grass seed (any small-medium grain will do), water, an inoculation workspace (still-air box/glovebox/sterile laminar airflow cabinet), and any fruiting chamber. Plant food is optional based on your choice to experiment.

It's also very easy & quick. Once you make the small leap from syringe work to G2G and/or agar transfers you are entirely capable of this technique in full glory.
Lite versions using syringes and pressure cookers but without still-air-boxes/gloveboxes/sterile airflow cabinets can be done nicely with polyfil lid modifications that otherwise I recommend against.

With no ego I share this grow philosophy as food for thought to the OnlineMushroomCommunity. I understand that INFORMATION IS FREE :earth: and thus joyfully offer what I have learned myself and of others as one.

From the wide variety of advice that can be found here, and the prompts to take deeper looks at certain elements of myco process aided by Anne Halonium, I have modified my approach to symbiosis with the Psilocybe fungi.
I have found it to be a modification worth making, and thus worth sharing.

This post and thread may feel lengthy to some. I hope to be totally clear regarding all facets of this approach and its logic, as much of it may not be understood or be misunderstood if I do not, as has already been the case in a few instances. If you enjoy a thorough read and love digging into myco mentalisms then you should enjoy this post as much as I enjoy making it!

It will contain many of my photos and statements that have also been on these forums elsewhere.
If you have any questions, do please feel free to ask them here! Anything missed will gladly be addressed and likely added appropriately into this post.
Likewise I will also be adding expansions, details, and photos as things progress.


I've grown many species of mushrooms in a myriad of ways. Can't claim to have tried them all, but can attest to having delved deeply into the many main approaches that still find themselves workable to the common grower. PF Tek, invitro grains in jars, straight grain casing, bulk substrates in bags, trays, monotubs, the works.
Even to this day I still vary widely to keep it fresh. However, one particular approach has stood out loud-and-clear, thus I'm here to spread and shout it loud and clear!

With the collection of widespread methods as they are, some of the original nutrition available is boiled away, poured off, heat damaged, destroyed for "spawning", spread-thin, and overindulged upon even before we get to a first mushroom fruiting. No wonder that it just gets 1 super flush and a couple of quickly-dwindling stragglers of predictable potency.
So you're paying for grain, paying to excessively boil and tea-out nutrition you payed for into water you payed for also but that goes down the drain, paying to heat up the same glass over and over in sterilization to contain amounts of grain so large that you're paying for half of it to be up to sterile temps double as necessary which can destroy it further, then after precious growth has eaten some of it you destroy that growth just to spread what's left like too little butter over too much bread, leading to the fact that you have PAID to throw yield potential away at almost every step!

Although they work and are possibly accessible to beginners, so many myco techniques taught here and elsewhere are inefficient and ineffective. Much of their development and spread is result of asking the 'wrong' questions in regards to a practical approach to this organism, and thinking about their answers in the context that we already had in our minds, when the experience and knowledge bases on these forums and elsewhere have already provided all the keys for us to garner ourselves with a greater perspective.

When grows are inefficient and ineffective, we all lose. People that seem totally unrelated lose too, you see if you widen your perspective enough. Oh to count the ways…
I have a dream of a greater earth, and no such subject is too trivial, nor any modification that gets the job done more for less, regardless of what the job is.

Come on, let's grow more, greener, cheaper, faster, easier, safer, stronger!

SO!
It is with great pleasure that I bring you my 1000th post here on Shroomery, the basics of my approach to the grow!


INDEX

Here's my perception of Psilocybe cultivation, in a nutshell:
Symbiotically-aided conversion of food matter's nutrition into psychoactive alkaloid, and extraction thereof.


That is, the mycelium is our teammate and tool in chemically converting a variety of common organic elements, and even extracts it for us in easily usable forms.

This method aims to do that simply and ideally, while:
Using less electricity
Using fewer materials
Spending less time and effort
Taking less space
Minimizing failures and losses


Edited by Violet (09/02/17 10:53 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135107 - 04/19/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I'm slowly getting around to cleaning this thread up a bit, re-organizing it, and including some new parts and changes to the original presentation as I would have done it if done today.

This section will be about the differences in choosing brown rice and grass seed for this tek.

The section about grass seed and prep has been moved to the section below about using grass seed in general, making that post about grass seed specifically since so little speak of it or use it openly.


Edited by Violet (01/23/15 10:32 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135108 - 04/19/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

ABOUT GRASS SEED

Many of us have seen this photo before:

On the right is rye grain. Although it works quite nicely with this technique, it is not the grain here referenced.
On the left is our grass seed.
Around these boards it's been known as "rye" grass seed, and much of the world's lawn seed is also called "rye."
There are ~9000 identified species of grasses on this planet at the moment.
Regardless of what nickname it's been given, we're talking about lawn grass here. This definitely slims that category down a lot but it is not so slimmed as to include only one variety of a grass species. If it looks like the seed on the left, it's the stuff.


As will be elaborated below, using the seed in other ways such as for "spawn" may not take full advantage of the seed's traits; any rye/birdseed/wheat you can find for less expensive may be just as good or almost.

HOWEVER!: Using other grains as a master inoculant source is factually wasteful and over-expensive compared to grass seed for these reasons.
Nevermind that the seed is often a bit more expensive per pound. That pound contains far more grains, and I believe far more value altogether especially as a pure substrate, than any opposing proportion of price. Like rye compared to corn, seed compared to rye/birdseed is simply the obvious and superior choice for this.
Grass seed should be available to you. Unless it's 3-5x as expensive for you compared to other grains, you're still wasting your money on those other grains for such a use.


Since being prompted to take a second and more thorough look at grass seed the use of this tiny grain has changed my mycological life so-to-speak.
In my opinion, grass seed is the perfect singular substrate (that is, for using only one material). The same reasons it has only a slight advantage as "spawn" are the same reasons I love it so as a fantastic straight-sub. Its size is perfectly between that of whole grains & particles of a "bulk" substrate; not so big as to have centers that are hard/untimely to reach and to easily lose its water content, but not so small as to become consolidated to the degree of being difficult to water. IME this makes it a superior straight-sub as it has both the perfect fineness as high nutrition density.


GRASS SEED PREP

Since I've created a dedicated grain prep tek thread, I've shortened this section of the thread in favor of linking to that!

As a note, I'd like to point out that sterilization times will vary due to water and its specific heat. Grains that hold more water and/or are larger, such as brown rice and especially corn, will require a longer sterilization time, especially when cooking on an electric stove element.  If I don't sterilize these smaller containers of brown rice for at least 60 minutes on my electric stove eye, the containers in the top of the cooker are not completely sterilized, causing them to have an internal bacterial contamination. This kind of contamination is not visible!  It can only be detected by scent or via evidence in the mycelium's colonization. If inoculated shortly after sterilized the mycelium will likely colonize the surface of the grains while the bacteria remnants take hold of the inside.  If allowed to sit several days before inoculated, the mycelium will colonize slowly or stall.  With even greater bloom, the inoculated mycelium may not even recover!

This tek is wonderful in allowing some reduced sterilization times, but don't skimp too much! Failure is far worse than an extra 10 minutes on the stove.


GRASS SEED as MASTER INOC. SOURCE and "SPAWN"

Grass seed has 3x-6x the grains per volume as any other grain.
Here is my "inoculation point algebra": Divide the area between inocs that mycelia must travel to complete colonization by the ratio of grains per square inch, reduce expected timeframe by that proportional value, and you get the clear and obvious fact that depending on your use either (a) each single jar can inoculate over twice as much, or (b) grass seed inoculations colonize faster per equal 'spawn' volume.


Agar wedge inoculations grow-out in 4-6 days if shaken like crazy after inoc. I learned this due to my shaking ritual developed from making sure truffle rye grain inocs were distributed thoroughly.


Multi-spore Cubensis, or even GLC of the speedy Panaeolus Cinctulus, cannot compare with that speed even on RGS. It's not just about the grain, but about its use.



4/2: 4/11: 4/18: 4/22:

This seed-to-coir would be about 1:3, common for 'monotub' spawning. The greatly increased number of grains-per-volume with grass seed can spread the mycelium everywhere amongst "bulk" substrate and colonize very quickly! This one finished in ~5days, tying or beating the fastest of even higher inoc ratios.
If you're wanting to use it for your monotubs, it may speed up colonization due to inoc point value, but not necessarily. With a strong "spawn" ratio regardless, you're likely to not notice much worthwhile difference with grass seed except that it can be harder to break-up if you let it consolidate at all.

3/31: 4/3: 4/8: 4/15:

For that same reason, a single "master" quart jar of colonized grass seed can expand to huge amounts of sterile substrate; even 1/20th of a quart contains enough inoculation points to bustle along.
Here about a spoonful of seed spreads mycelium quickly onto a sterile mix of rye and coir.
It's not quite as quick to colonize with fewer spots of course, but it's immensely efficient with the seed, making up for the time also by skipping expanding to more jars before substrate inoculation.
16 days is not bad for huge bags inoc'd with just a spoonful of seed and skipping an expansion step.
I greatly prefer lo-ratio on supplemented or grain-only substrates.


Edited by Violet (09/02/17 10:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet] * 1
    #18135109 - 04/19/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not saying that RGS is a miracle seed in all applications.
I'm not pitching the simple replacement of other grains with grass seed within the same methods.
I'm suggesting the use of straight seed in methods that fully cater to the mycelium's strengths.

Here is that method!


GROWING FROM GRAIN IN PLASTIC

Yes, plastic. I do NOT like the use of disposable plastics. In my opinion, ALL plastics where possible should be used only for permanent application. It is my belief that it is not worth using plastic as a material just to end up in a dump.
For that reason I use these containers with long-term application.

I love plastic. I'm a plastic convert. Sterilization times can be lower. You can remove them from the cooker before cooled, since the rim of the plastic does nearly immediately. You can stack them, saving space.
You can drop them and not lose them or your project; instead of accidents resulting in big dangerous messes, they result in laughter.

If you don't press these recycling code 5 plastic containers against the side of your cooker and don't heat your cooker too hard too long getting to pressure, these containers WILL NOT MELT. If you melt some containers, consider nothing but user error. Don't give up, just load fewer to not touch the sides and use no more heat than necessary to sustain 15+PSI. The thin layer of heat-permeable plastic allows for as little as half to a third of sterilization times compared to thick glass walls and deep cores of substrate to reach.

As long as you use plastics only for permanent applications, the great reduction of waste and superfluous energy expenditure makes this the greenest way to grow I've experienced/seen yet.


These recycling code 5 plastic containers of grass seed are unmodified. Their lids are left loose for sterilization and screwed tight after inoculation; NO air filter or inoculation ports.

I wish I hadn't drilled holes or silicone'd on filters of my first ones. (fortunately they were similar but inferior 'Rubbermaid' containers&lids)
For the first round I did, I drilled holes & siliconed-on filters because I wasn't yet so aware that I was able to do this just with seal-broken lids instead.
After just a couple runs with them it was clear that I had kindof messed-up the containers by modifying them. The silicone could not be expected to stay on very well. I learned that I had to be very careful in handling or shaking after PC and inoc, and totally leave them alone until ready, or the filters could fall right off wasting substrate, energy, inoculation work and time.
Whatever floats your boat, but my suggestions is to leave the containers totally as-is. Many of you will find out exactly why if you choose to try silicone lid mods.


Inoculated with less than a spoonful of grass seed, they're quite likely to be fully-colonized before 6 days pass, as with the ones above.

With a half-decent culture, room temperature or above, and good spread of inoc'd grains, 3 days until fully-colonized will not be uncommon.
Such is usually the case for me, but your results may vary depending on how you end up inoculating.
They still have enough air to colonize as long as the inoculant is distributed evenly. More about this discussed near the end of this section, read especially if inclined towards alternate inoc methods.

It's awesome to have quick colonization, but it doesn't mean they'll be pinning 10 days from inoc. I usually let them sit 7-10 days before fruiting, it's beneficial for reasons that will be mentioned further on, but they'll likely sit for this time anyway while preparing to fruit.



One quart jar holds two containers' worth of seed. I'd consider this very highly loaded, especially if inoculating with more grains. 200-300mL per container is the gist!

This means my PC can only sterilize the contents of 4 quart jars per run instead of 7 if I don't overload it. However, the plastic containers pass heat quickly and the increased individualization of the substrate means their cores are quicker for heat to reach. I run the mid-size cooker for 40+ minutes - 85 minutes total at 15+PSI then sterilizes 8 'quarts' worth instead of 7 for 90min. My friend uses small cookers on butane for 6 containers in 30 minutes, which would mean 90min total 15+PSI sterilizes 9 "quarts" worth.
With plastic, less is more, in every way.


There are some uses for these type quart containers also. They sterilize more quickly than quart jars.


When experimenting with special treatment of substrates with plant food (see Plant Food & Bacteria), around 20-28 hours after original boiling pour I microwave the loaded containers loose-lid for about 5-7 minutes.
Containers are not sterilized until another 20-30 hours afterwards for such experimentation.


Sterilize!




Just a single colonized quart jar of seed for 32 containers of sterile seed. Even spread so thin, grass seed offers a satisfying amount of inoculation points per container.


Grain-to-grain inoculation is easiest this way by far and makes for a powerful thorough spread, but any clean inoc source and method will work!
Typically I find myself inoculating all containers by agar unless doing a large number of them.


Colonizing time depends on method of inoculation, spread of inoc, speed of culture and hydration of seed. No need to shake! They'll just take a bit longer. Avoiding the shake is very advisable for this fruiting method.


Expansion is easy and quick.
All these containers were inoculated in less than 15min, the shake took longer even.
Fully-colonized in 3 days.


THE CASE FOR CONSOLIDATION
Please do yourself a favor and allow some solid consolidation time before casing and fruiting such cakes. There are several advantages besides potential potency solidification.

This growing process eliminates 1-3 weeks from other methods that the culture would otherwise have as a head-start for consuming the grain.
These straight grains require some real chewing before the mycelium will be able to flush hardy. This is for the same reason that the grain has such recurring flush capacity.
If you introduce them into fruiting and prompt them to fruit before they're maxed out on readiness, the results could possibly seem quite dwindling and discouraging since the mycelium will have expended itself in fruiting without having gotten to a point where it could do its best. May lead to earlier contamination also.

A case-in-point:


Although these first-flush yields aren't bad, pretty decent considering the future flushing curve, they're not as good as the same culture has done on other cakes.
This is because they were cased and set to fruit a weekish after fully-colonized, and that colonization only took 3 days, as displayed in this thread.
Inoc 4/19, cased and set into FC around 4/30, harvest 5/11. 3 weeks from inoc to harvest is very quick, but results were not indicative of their capability.

They haven't had enough time. Others introduced as early or earlier had even less impressive first results. In the past for me, some that went this way even contamm'd during second flush, which would be quite disheartening if you didn't know how you caused/allowed such a thing!

Let these containers take their time before introducing. Best results don't come rushed. If you want regular harvest (beyond the perpetual harvest from these!) then do cycling grows like anyone else so that their individual delays are irrelevant.


Edited by Violet (09/02/17 11:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135110 - 04/19/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

CASING LAYERS and PREP

Once they're ready to fruit, it's very helpful to add a casing layer to the top of the cakes. Casing is cheap, quick, & easy this way, and a huge benefit to fruiting these cakes especially for the first flushes. The casing layer also makes them low-maintenance; they have a primary pinning surface even in 80-90% ambient relative humidity.
I love it.

They may want to side-pin badly…

… but they won't do it.


A straight-soil, straight-peat, or peat/verm casing works fine, although this method may condense verm in the unusable mud in the bottom of the final product, and peat casings may call for a bit of garden lime if the pH is very low. I've used all of these casing materials with many cakes and they're great.
I really like sifting potting soil for the finest parts. My friend recommends the nice potting soil at stores that don't really sell garden supplies such as soil.

I see people say strait peat, 'seed starter' or fine potting soils are not good casing layers on their own, that they need vermiculite, gypsum, or lime powder.

I've used all of those things in casing layers, both with other prep methods and this one…
Some lime powder in strait-peat or 'seed starter' materials are helpful but it works fine without, the evidence is here.
Fine potting soil seems to be great as it is.

Peat/soil may not be impressive when done in other methods. Verm is used to keep materials like those from a problematic trait with those preps that happens to be fantastic with this prep which is designed to use that hydration problem as the basis for its excellence, likewise to my grain prep.
When starting from mud, and hydration reduced as part of the easy treatment, they have both the perfect fineness and aeration.



Here's how I now prepare my casing! This simple alternative to pasteurization was taught to me by Anne Halonium.

Firstly, let me say, you MUST experiment with this prep before fully using. The hydration element is different than in any other material prep. The aim is not to start with field capacity moisture but to end with it.

I am not suggesting the use of this technique over any other for casing preparation, simply offering an option I seldom see elsewhere.
Don't be afraid to use a regular pasteurization procedure. They're tried&true and involve starting with and ending with ideal moisture.


Sift/Pick out any sticks and rocks.


Turn it into mud. That's right, mud. This process involves a lot of water being boiled from the casing material, so use so much that it turns into mud and leaves puddles of dirty water in your bowl.
Even the puddle of muddy water should be loaded into the container.
Interestingly enough, even with this much water, you're more likely to end up with too dry a material with your first experiments! Water up and have faith!


Place into the microwave with the lid along with it but NOT on. Nuke it until the mud is "boiling." Allow the boil to continue 1-2 minutes. For me, this ends up totaling about 10 minutes in the microwave.

After time is up, lid the container and set it aside for 24 hours.

The next day repeat the same microwaving procedure to the T.

When it has cooled down in the lidded container, it's ready to apply!


I simply pour some of the material onto the cake, shake it a bit, and it's done!


The perfect prep of these often has a quite moist clumpy texture that must be crumbled-apart with the fingers; clean hands do fine.
This is not a problem, in fact I think it's better. Something about starting from thick mud makes the crumbled soil so fine yet clumpy and aerated. The perfect casing for Cubensis, IME.


Set into fruiting immediately after casing.
They will quickly move thru the casing, and it helps best use this casing for primodia formation within instead of above for them to be exposed to the fruiting condition right away.





You'll see many photos of Cubensis fruiting from under such casings, but know that many exotics can as well.
Here Ps. Galindoi is pinning exactly a month after container's inoc.


Edited by Violet (06/17/13 10:44 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18135111 - 04/19/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

FRUITING

This one is simple!
They'll grow in anything.

Shotgun chambers, of course.


Greenhouse. Mine was easy to make and holds ~300 containers in the same space that 8 of common 106qt tubs would hold 144.
They're forgiving of humidity due to casing layer and bottom-watering.


Old "monotubs". 106qt totes hold 18 containers.
You don't even have to drill holes if you fan the tubs out 2-3 times a day, since there's not a ridiculous amount of extra breathing mycelium in them. Doesn't get simpler than that!


Wish I had the 1st of these, here's the 2nd:   3rd flush pins:
Even such tiny bits of this straight grass seed substrate has incredible second, third, fourth, fifth flush capacity. Mostly ignores and works around prior harvest damage.


Here are those second-flush pins at harvest right at a month after container inoc. The first weighed right at 60g, second right at 50, third almost 40. If this pattern continues -as it oft does- it will produce fresh ~200g… even loaded a bit lightly as it was. This is a genetic isolate culture but just a test of a blind clone isolation that happened to pin fast and in great numbers on grainwater agar. With every variable in strong form and proven cluster clone isolates ~300g fresh from a container is not an unattainable goal.


That one particular container I've been tracking specifically, other than just averaging each yield for each clone I'm testing.
I tracked it specifically because its sub was extra-small due to shallow load with a curved bottom, and because I was looking forward to its performance due to strong agar pinning.
62, 50, 46, 35 fresh grams from each of the first 4 flushes. At that rate you can see it will flush again and be worth letting.
Calculator still shows 20g dry per tiny cake like this, which would be 25-28g for these containers proportional to usual cake size.


Here, an impressive uncased first-flush yield of multispore PE6

I could show you lots of first-flush photos, and they may be added down the line, but I feel that the 3rd and 4th flush photos say far more.

Many of my cultures at the times of the photos were clones of giants. They've since been phased-out.
Some beefy 3rd flushes that about tie the 2nd and aren't much less than the 1st.:






Extremely worthwhile 4th flushes, if they're not done they're not done:






In many instances, 4th flushes have been as large as 2nd.

The yield potential will be discussed further down with theoretical yield values that don't even fully acknowledge the flush capacity of this method.
They are conservative in the attempt to not disappoint anyone who doesn't get the results I am.
Your results will vary, but mine got to be amazing when I combined it with [url=No-pour no-mod agar containers / grainwater agar]my culturing methods.[/url]


Edited by Violet (09/02/17 11:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135113 - 04/19/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

BOTTOM-WATERING

Close to my favorite thing about this method.


Mycelium are capable of migrating water en masse. It's obvious, hence mushrooms, but the extent to which it's true is not widely known.
This is partially because of the difficulty in hydrating blocks of fine substrates such as coir, manure, compost, vermiculite, or sawdust. This is why we submerge them for such long lengths :[

Straight-grain however takes to hydration much more quickly and easily. Or rather, mycelium on straight-grains are able to hold more water, though they also lose it more easily. This is why grains are not often used directly to fruit.
Straight-grains like rye, birdseed, corn, and wheat are large and lose the water they hold very easily.
Grass seed, however, is very fine and a much more dense and retaining substrate, without being so fine as to become anhydrous and generally difficult to rehydrate.
Grass seed's unique properties seem to really streamline the mycelium's ability to soak up and move water around. Rice is right with it, interestingly.

Thus...

These cakes are not dunked, but instead bits of clean water are added into the bottom of the containers. The mycelia hydrate in the bottom and migrate the moisture up.



Just add water to the containers nearing the end of the first flush. Keep an eye on it -  when the mycelium drain it all up, add a bit more.
Frankly it's easier than plants since you can always see if they have used all their extra water.


When mushrooms are growing, keep the water coming!  Failure to provide adequate water will cut yields short directly.


After fruiting, if you see they don't soak up any more, you can remove the water until pinning if you like.


The one on the right - see how the first flush has made space between the cake and the container. This is when you start bottom-watering.
I replace the water by just adding a bit more to come about halfway up the cake itself.




THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF THIS TEK,  JUST AN EXAMPLE OF MYCELIUM CAPABILITIES
DO NOT MIMIC THESE PHOTOS AS IF THEY ARE THE TEK.  THE PHOTOS ARE FROM AN EXPERIMENT


Be assured that mycelium love to move moisture around. Doesn't matter where the food is, doesn't matter where the water is, if they can bring the two together, shit happens.
The cakes sitting on lids in these photos were allowed to dry-out some, their mycelium spread over the plastic lids, and then water was added to the lid.

With enough water, full flushes of mushrooms will grow directly on clean plastic, given that they're able to migrate-over the necessary nutrients.

Although this does imply some incredible mushroom growing innovations are inevitable, here at the moment it's only to demo mycelium's outstanding water-moving ability, when allowed.


Edited by Violet (09/05/14 09:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135116 - 04/19/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

So that's pretty much it for technique and photos!

Most of the rest will be text related to the grow philosophy, relative effectiveness, reasons for the many facets of this grow style, the likes.
If you want to read more about the results of this grow technique and why then continue on! It will pay off for you if you're truly interested in a grow like this.
For others less reading-savvy peeps… well, skim I guess.


HOW DOES IT YIELD?


This section was cleared out  -  I will at some point be re-writing this and clarifying it, making it accurate accounting for the uses of different grains.


_______


I'd like to tell a short story about how I come to these statements about yield.
Although all this yield happened right in front of me, due to such gradual harvest I didn't realize where it really stood until I got to playing with a calculator.
It was easy to figure out yield-per-container math, I had been keeping averages around and comparing them to ongoing results for consistency.
Was quite evident already that some facets of the yield were greater than other methods.
What I didn't entirely expect is that the same amount of grain had begun to consistently yield what it would when mixed with bulk substrates.

The 18 containers that fit in these 106qt totes contains 5.5-6 quarts of hydrated seed (somewhere around 5500mL, or 180 fl.oz.)

Didn't believe it myself at first… For me, LESS grain yielded MORE with this method, because my cakes stayed healthy to give out their full potential before contaminating, if contaminated at all because some do not before disposal.


That seed-to-coir block harvested 4/22:
Beautiful isn't it?
Now, it's come to disappoint me.

As glorious as it appears with all those large mushrooms I cannot help but remember the typical flushing curve with such a grow.
350g fresh first yield. If the typical math pans out it could produce around 2oz dry, being a clone isolate with dunks and all. One quart hydrated seed, ~4 quarts of hydrated coir.
Without the coir, that grain could be in 3 containers - 2oz dry. In fact it has for me, over and over again.

So yeah a big "monotub" is like fiveish of these bags - six quarts of grain, 15 quarts of coir etc. That's a nice 8-13oz dry, hopefully.
What of the 16-18 plastic containers that grain could go in? A nice 9-14oz dry.

Not to forget the myriad other advantages of the method...

Instead of huge numbers of glass "spawn" jars with long cooking time, pasteurizing "bulk" substrates, colonizing in unsterile environs, and fruiting space being occupied by colonizing blocks that produce tons of CO2, you have sterile fruiting containers bustling right thru your chambers, not just putting out a better yield but an even greater yield-per-time.
All without a single dunk.

Less grain than a mono, less casing material than mono sub, less variety materials, less time on the stove, less cooldown time, less chance of failure, less spawn-breaking, less side-pinning.
No hydrating hassle, no modification, no manure storage, no coir bricks, no glass breakage, no superfluous space consumption.
Faster inoc, faster colonizing, faster expansion, faster cycling, faster cleanup.
More rhizos, same/more mushrooms, more potency, more safe, more options, more fun.


Edited by Violet (03/27/15 04:21 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18135118 - 04/19/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I know it sounds a bit hard to believe. Fortunately I'm not asking for your belief. I had to know how the same amount of grain would yield much more with straight-fruiting, even without more substrate, so I set abouts carefully combing all the myco info I could find and read up for precedent.

Precedent was found. Precedent is everywhere.
Quote after quote, fact after fact, stat after stat, and one bit of clear-headed bio logic after another, I found that the reasons for this are obvious and right under everyone's noses.


REAL TALK about 'bulk' substrates

Consider this for a moment.
It's common knowledge that we cannot propagate and work with cultures on 'bulk' substrates. They "aren't food enough" so to speak.
Mycelium will not take to straw, coir, manure, compost, vermiculite etc. without a nutritional core. The nutrients from the grains they started from are used to expand the mycelium over the other lesser-nutritious substrate.

It's called 'bulk' substrate because it's easy to get free/cheap in large amounts, not because it makes bulk mushrooms. You may use it for growing bulk mushrooms, but do not forget the bulk of grain that it requires.

What is the point of the 'bulk' substrates? Water capacity of course! They make it to where the colony has enough water on-hand to make use of the nutrient content for a large flush. They are nutritional, thus they can be colonized, but they're not making that grow happen… the grain is.

'Bulk' substrates are simply one way of providing the nutritional core of grains with water.

By using substrates and methods that allow bottom-watering, you take full advantage of mycelium's abilities, including moving moisture!




Here is a list of some of the things that I have gathered to be reasons as to why straight grass seed used this way has greater potential than any grain with the use of "bulk" substrate.

  • Greatly reduced amount of mycelia per core nutrition. On "bulks", you've greatly increased the total sub volume but not so greatly increased the nutrition content. 2x-6x the mycelium is living off of less than 2x the nutrition. There is a lot of metabolization going on but little additional food beyond the original to support it.

  • For the same reason, less air exchange requirement per nutrition content. CO2 buildup occurs much more slowly, leaving the air fresher than otherwise at all times. Helps optimize conditions for primordia formation, while less moisture is lost due to excess airflow.

  • The colony is not broken-up after it's colonized the core nutrition of the grains. The nutrition is not further sapped for the second colonizing and networking run on lesser-nutritious sub.

  • Greatly reduced expansion. Myelium expands in practically the same way to create fruits as it does to colonize, and we know that the less mycelium has expanded the more that it can yet. Instead of re-expanding 300-700% in bulk substrate (just to grab water) after the first expansion is destroyed, the first expansion on grains is the only one besides fruiting. With this tek, total fruit mass harvested comes to exceed the substrate's mass at any point!, leading to more mycelium being in the form of fruits than cakes.

  • Mycelia, knots, and primordia are very sensitive. Although the colony obviously survives "dunks" and carrys on fruiting, the use of bottom-water totally avoids shocking resets and the harsh flattening of surface mycelium. It carrys on its life-cycle at its own pace without any "recovery" intervals necessary.

  • Grass seed specifically is extremely suited for this approach to straight-fruiting. The very fine grains have lots of small spaces for mycelial network, which means more cellular water capacity and that the grain's nutrition is for sure easily & fully accessed by the time fruiting is done.

  • Reduced cost is definitely worth noting. One primary example is how much less nutrition is purchased per dollar in coir than grains.
The list doesn't have to end there.



Frankly, without a metals scan, pesticides scan, antibiotics scan, hormones scan, & parasite scan, you cannot convince me that your field manure or compost is totally food-safe.
You might say "Oh come on now, I do it all the time, nobody dies or gets hurt"
Cigarette-smoker's logic. Don't give me that.
I know in most cases everything turns out fine. I also know that any problems are unlikely to ever be discovered as such. For some this may be a reason to do it anyway, but for me it's a reason to not do it. With grass seed I can read the label to determine if it's safe to use or not.
If you want to use it anyway, your choice, but I hope you can see the obvious logic of this selection. That's one of the few things not up for discussion with me as it'd go nowhere.




Here's the real bulk problem with bulk substrates: Energy expense.
Even beyond the needless expenditure of nutrient energy in colonizing over the bulk substrate, there is the high-energy treatment of such lo-nutrient water masses.
I no longer prepare bulk substrates for these Psilocybes, and casing layers are made with the method outlined above.

WATER & Efficiency
It's about the water. Almost entirely about the water in fact.

Nobody who is educated on myco matters underestimates the importance of water at any stage of the process.
However I feel that we've taken a somewhat poor perspective on the use of water for cultivation mycology, at least in regards to Cubensis and several other indoors Psilocybes.

Facts:
  • Mushrooms are mostly water ±90%, so effectively you cannot grow more mushrooms than you provide water
  • Some evaporation is unavoidable (desirable actually)
  • Colonized sub can hold more water than uncolonized sub material; once it's colonized it can soak it up like a water balloon and be just fine.
  • Grain does not hold enough water to take full advantage of its nutritious fruiting capacity
  • All water does not have to be present in the substrate at colonization.
    Dunks are obviously not a sterile procedure. Immediately after "birthing" PF cakes they go straight to a dunk!
    I've seen just 1/3" of seed in the bottom of quart jars grow mushrooms that reached out the top, more volume/weight in fungus than volume in grain! This is due to bottom-watering.
    Why? How?
    Because fully-colonized sub is extremely resistant to contamination. Once the nutrition is fully colonized (and especially with a bit of chew time it seems) you can definitely use non-sterile water without risking results.

    Therefore, and since mycelium can absorb and migrate moisture:
  • All water does not have to be present in the substrate for fruiting either.


    Did You Know?:
    Water has an incredibly high specific heat, a property of a substance that tells us how much heat is needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of a material by one degree Celsius. A large specific heat means you have to put in a lot of energy for each degree increase in temperature. Specific heat is measured in joules per kilogram per degree Celsius (joule/kg/C) which means how many joules it takes to raise 1kg of the substance 1/C.

    You need to add 4,184 joules (1 calorie) of heat to 1 kilogram of water to raise the temperature by 1°C. You only need to add 470 joules of heat to raise the temperature of a kilogram of steel by 1°C. It takes nine times more energy to raise the temperature of water by 1° than it does to raise the temperature of the same mass of steel by 1°.

    Water is incredibly energy-hungry. Realize how little nutrition you're treating in your bulk substrates, and at what cost.

    So why do we destroy mycelium colonies on grain just to start new ones on heat-treated water masses? Seriously, why?!
    I know why we used to. Nobody had come up with a great way to hydrate/rehydrate grains for fruiting especially after crumble&case so the limited water capacity of grain was not enough to take full use of their nutrition. Instead of finding a good way to do so, cultivators seemed to favor adding lots of low-nutrient
    (thus could be pasteurized) water holding material.

    Yes, yields are increased with the use of bulk substrates over old-fashioned straight grain teks with no decent watering.
    So since yield itself was improved nobody had reason to realize that yield potential is reduced, and the addition of bulk subs to grains thus seemed like the best thing since spore prints.

    As happens so often in our world another procedure/trick/tool/habit was developed to get around the inefficiencies of a prior method. Now these thought patterns have been entrained into the practise and cause everyone to go to such great lengths for a result when much less is required in the line of materials, energy, time, space, to get the same yield at the same (or higher) quality.


    Despite their enormous water holding ability, "bulk" substrate blocks still must be hydrated for following flushes, and it's not fun to do.
    We can cut to the chase by bottom-watering as hydration application instead of the combined use of dunks and heat-treated bulk substrates.

    So if substrates don't have to hold ALL the water IN the substrate during colonizing OR for each flush, their huge energy expenditure for treatment is unnecessary, and they even reduce overall yield potential, then what is the point of using bulk substrates?

    My friends I see little or no point at all in using bulk substrate for these species, and many points NOT to have been stated.



    Let's get specific, & bust out some numbers!

    Although the technique recently written-up in this post is an excellent pasteurization method for bulk substrates and casings that I have done many times, it nonetheless requires 2-3 hours 160˚F hot water bath to pasteurize 7 "myco"-quarts, more like 5 actual quarts of substrate.

    Or, same big cooker, 9-12 actual quarts of substrate in bags instead, 160˚F hot water bath for 3-4 hours. You get more in the run but it takes much longer to pasteurize thoroughly, gets a bit more done in the run but the outsides of the sub may be a bit overdone.

    So you've prepared 15 actual quarts of sub with long hi-heat water bath times… And of course, your 7 "myco"-quarts, more like 5 actual quarts, of grain which took 90min at 15PSI to sterilize.
    6-7 hours of heat treatment combined!
    For, say, 8-11 dry oz yield, done well with solid culture.


    My first solution was to combo the grain and sub in blocks and sterilize, eliminating the separate runs for "spawn" and "sub", as a grass seed master can inoc 10-20 of such bags.
    8 actual quarts of this sub 1:4 grain:bulk took a bit less time to sterilize as straight bulk sub did to pasteurize, due to the higher temp and more saturated steam in the PC.
    16 actual quarts stuffed into the cooker, 4 hours total treatment. For, say, 9-12 dry oz yield, done well with solid culture.


    6 hours running my cooker will do 4 60min runs of 8+ plastic containers of seed, 48+ containers, 16+ actual quarts of pure grain.
    If each container produces average total 22g dry over 4-6 flushes…. my calculator says 37+ dry oz.


  • Edited by Violet (09/02/17 11:28 PM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    InvisibleViolet
     User Gallery


    Registered: 12/06/11
    Posts: 4,205
    CULTURE [Re: Violet]
        #18135119 - 04/19/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    The content of this former section is no longer particularly called for, having been said and heard.
    So I'm making use of this post space for something more useful and informative!
    Thus,


    UNDER CONSTRUCTION




    Even a single gene provides many variables. Array of metabolic enzymes will cause an isolate to perform better on some substrates than others and these will vary with genes. Its propensity towards behaviors changes, often quite dramatically from one situation to another. Although I would not make this statement as blanketedly as it may initially sound, isolate cultures will behave differently on scenarios as different as these.

    Here already is an example that I feel is case-in-point.
    You saw me testing an isolate I am referring to as 'cream', here it was in its second flush:


    Here is that exact same isolate 1st flush on a sterile substrate of 1:1 coir:seed, inoculated with small amount of colonized seed.

    Although this is a very high ratio of seed to "bulk sub" in that block and it has yielded more in its first flush here than 3 containers would in their first flush, it will not come to yield more than those 3 containers would total.

    Observe the completely different behavior on this substrate. The mushrooms are different shape, vastly different sizes, giant single mushrooms instead of numerous clusters.

    It's worth noting that this culture was isolated from a clone taken on a rye grain & coir substrate, but now totally outperforms that mix on straight grass seed.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________



    We refer to Cubensis as a dung-loving species, but I don't think that's what it is. I think it is a grass-loving mycelium that has strongly adapted to the partially-digested grass of certain manures, thus making it the mushroom most likely to fill the large niche created by human's live stocking of cattle and horses.
    As noted here already, if you try to grow mycelium on manure without some other core nutrition to start from, it won't work.
    What mushrooms love is SEED! So of course they're able to process the planty husks those seeds can grow into and leave behind, but without that core nutrition, they can't sustain.
    I bet that grass seed is especially appealing to the fungi, and that they have far fewer opportunities in nature to eat other yet somewhat similar grains, thus the array of enzymes mycelium will use to metabolize food are quite possibly "fit" to grass and grass seed more than any other, and such may contain more matched potential for the organism.
    This is only a little better than an educated guess, but it does seem to explain the fact of my incredible experience with the seed.


    Edited by Violet (12/11/13 10:16 PM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    InvisibleViolet
     User Gallery


    Registered: 12/06/11
    Posts: 4,205
    Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet] * 1
        #18135122 - 04/19/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    I will only discuss the matter of potency with those open-mindedly willing to move towards its improvement.
    Do not drop-in with your opinions about potency's relevance or the supposed impossibility of objectively improving it, I've heard them all.

    If you're only interested in growing mushroom matter because people will pay good cash for mushroom matter, then go away & never speak to me.
    Be glad that this information is shared openly regardless of your asinine priorities.
    I am not interested in helping you produce & sell, especially with no regard to quality, skill, or greenness of the grow.



    LET'S GET SERIOUS ABOUT: POTENCY

    Potency is a sensitive subject for many people. It's laden with variables, and worst of all it's not currently possible to quantifiably determine.
    The solution that is most taken and shared is to forget about trying to control potency because of how many variables there are.
    However, just because "multi-spore is a crapshoot" doesn't necessarily mean our grows have to be. There are ways that we can take some degree of control over potency.

    I've seen many variations of the following sentiment: "Potency is irrelevant. If you want to trip harder, eat more".
    That rule-of-thumb works perfectly fine for fungi that you may already have. But this isn't "The Psychedelic Experience" this is "Mushroom Cultivation"; we are acting BEFORE the fact, which allows us to play whatever part in the potency of our project that we can.

    Instilling apathy in ourselves and others about the strength of our cultivars is literally the opposite of the ideal way to handle it.

    "Potency doesn't matter" is a very poor mentality to take regarding the very reason that we grow at all.
    What if marijuana growers had stuck with this mentality? "Potency doesn't matter. If you want to get higher, smoke more." How much sense does THAT make? We'd all be smoking autumn leaves still!

    In my opinion it would be even more important to improve the potency quality of fungi. The more fungus matter you eat, the more likely you are to get cramps/sick, or the worse it will be when you do. With a higher Psilo% the required weight of fungus matter decreases, resulting in a cleaner experience that won't distract you or bring down your vibe.
    That's also directly related to the fruits of our labors. With a greater potency, your same total product mass actually contains a greater amount of the target particle, thus a greater yield of the grow's true intended product.



    _______________________________________________________



    The best that we can do to determine potency is bioassay - eat and see, eliminating as many other variables as ya can. This is unfortunate, as people jump to throw-out such "subjective" information, especially when it points to conclusions that such people do not like.
    My friends, we must be willing to accept the limitations of bioassay for now, until accurate and accessible ways of measuring Psilo% are devised.
    The good news is that the results of bioassay are truly the only thing of real importance when it comes to potency, and over a wide enough scale/timeline it can become clear if there truly is a difference. If what would otherwise give you the mental tingles leaves you flat-backed and mind-fucked then most would consider that a pretty strong indicator of significant potency difference.
    This is what I saw occur when I switched to this methodology and used straight grass seed or brown rice particularly "pre-fermented" with liquid plant food.

    Are ya ready for a bunch of bullet points?!



    Here are some things we know about potency.
    • Different genes have varying metabolisms which result in varying amounts of alkaloid metabolites. In a multi-spore grow every mushroom likely has different potency.
    • Isolating mycelial genetics allows for consistent reproduction of potency levels from consistent substrate.
    • Different flushes often have varying potency. With multi-spore grows it is because different genes can be fruiting each time. With isolate cultures it is because the alkaloid content may increase as the substrate is continually consumed.
    • That is also why "consolidation" of the substrate is thought to increase the general/average potency of mushrooms.
    • Nitrogen is crucial in all of the mushroom's psychoactive alkaloids. Lots of potency simply cannot occur without lots of nitrogen, simple math.
    • Psilocybin is 4-PO-DMT. Lots of potency simply cannot occur without lots of phosphorous present in the substrate. I was even told that a scientific study was released showing that phosphorous content is the limiting factor of potency from a substrate.



    Here are potency-related conclusions that personally I draw from those.
    • All growers should seek to clone/isolate, if not to maximize potency at least to stabilize it. Bioassays can then be performed and possibly a strong culture found.
    • The more flushes, the better, especially if those later flushes actually put out decent weight.
    • Where it does not reduce flushing potential, a 7-10 day "consolidation" period would benefit the grow by increasing alkaloid metabolite content.
    • When you double the amount of mushroom matter that grows from the same amount of nutrition, it only means that you've diluted the potency potential accessible to that mushroom mass. Thus, greater yield doesn't even necessarily mean more psilocybin, unless the increased yield is due to increased nutrition in par. "Bulk" substrates thus reduce potency potential, though not necessarily potency itself.
    • Substrate nutrient densities are very important for the creation of potency level, but are not responsible for it.



    That last one is the kicker. Let me elaborate on that, so that nobody mis-takes me:
  • High nutrient density ≠ potent mushrooms. Low nutrient density ≠ weak mushrooms. It's not that simple.
  • Potency < Nutrient density. There will always be fewer Psilo particles than were originally nitrogen and phosphorous.
  • Low nutrient density + impotent mycelium = low potency.  Hi nutrient density + impotent mycelium = low potency.  With weak mycelium, no substrate will grow strong mushrooms.
  • Low nutrient density + potent mycelium = low/limited potency.  Hi nutrient density + potent mycelium = high potency  Even with strong mycelium, without the necessary components for potency it cannot be developed.

    Thus substrate nutrition determines how potent mushrooms can be but mycelia genetics determine how potent mushrooms will be. When enough nutrition is present for them to perform up to their capability in all aspects, and genetics proven to make the most of that are used, you can be pretty sure of a knockout batch!



    Here are some ways that this avenue of cultivation can offer greater potency:
    • The colony is not broken-up after it's colonized the core nutrition of the grains. The nutrition is not further sapped for the second colonizing and networking run on lesser-nutritious sub, so more is available for fruiting and conversion to alkaloid metabolites.
    • For the same reason as above: The bio cycle uninterrupted, the original mycelial network undestroyed, more potency has had time to develop. We anecdotally know well-consolidated subs to have more assured potency. This would be because mushroom metabolism results in these alkaloids. Resetting that growth resets alkaloid buildup progression.
    • The high surface area relative to mass means that the grain's nutrition is more easily & fully accessed by the time fruiting is done, meaning that a greater degree of the goods available for conversion to alkaloid metabolites can be reached before fruiting time is over.
    • Active ingredients in the mycelia cannot be tea-ed out into dunk water. If you don't think you lose some potency in a dunk, you're forgetting how to make psychedelic tea.
    • The metabolic process is occurring only on nutrient-rich substrate, due to the sub's original content and to a preparation that preserves it as much as possible. A high concentration of nutritious elements is available for production of alkaloid metabolites by genes fully-capable of utilizing them. When you double the amount of mushroom matter that grows from the same amount of nutrition you've diluted the potency potential accessible to that mushroom matter. Thus greater yield doesn't even necessarily mean more psilocybin. However, greater yield from nutrient-equivalent or nutrient-surpassing substrates can and usually will.



    To me, the combination of all variables in full-form with this approach has shown a clear improvement of the quality of my product, all the while being simpler and more efficient, and ultimately even coming to yield more of it.
    Your experiences may vary; again, it is these variables accounted for as fully as possible that has made the consistent and quite outstanding difference.

    You'll simply never know unless you give it a few goes, eh?
    Try it out!


  • Edited by Violet (06/17/13 10:48 AM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    InvisibleViolet
     User Gallery


    Registered: 12/06/11
    Posts: 4,205
    Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet] * 1
        #18135125 - 04/19/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    UNDER CONSTRUCTION

    We can fine-tune materials/preparation, culture, and procedure to make the most of the mycelium's capability. This can have quite a positive effect on potency.
    But is there anything we can do to straight-up boost power? Why yes, my friends, there is!

    Aren't you excited?  That would be an incredible thing to implement!
    Aren't you skeptical?  Many things have been tried in the name of this, and nothing has really seemed to do it.

    Fortunately you don't have to stay skeptical for long! I felt that it was pointless to be skeptical, critical, hopeful, anything until I found out for myself.
    An experiment is simple and easy. It may even come to feel like a magic trick once you understand it, but it is not magic at all. It is elegant in its simplicity and affords astounding results with the proper guidance.


    PLANT FOOD "FERTS"
    There are countless varieties.
    This stuff is pretty much Nitrogen and Phosphorous in a bottle, the exact goodies we want the maximum of in our substrates. They're mixed with water as directed on their bottles and used for grain preparation. Again, it's not a magic-trick additive: if you do like I did at first and leave it at this you'll experience no improvement. Simply adding the elements to the substrate doesn't make them usable.


    The current mycological understanding is that mycelium cannot take-up elemental nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorous like plants do via roots, since mycelium use enzymes to metabolize compounds more akin to humans. While correct, this alone would lead to the conclusion that plant food is not a usable material for cultivation of Psilocybes.
    Yet we know that much of field manure's nitrogen which allows mushrooms to flourish is from Urea, a main part of urine, which so happens to be plant food's nitrogen as well!

    So what's the missing bridge between the two?

    Bacteria!

    To say that bacteria are your friends or mycelium's friends would be too general, like saying that earthling humans are your friends.
    But certain spectra of bacteria are of immense benefit to mycelia in some ways that are obvious, some to a degree of which few are aware, and probably more ways than we even know.

    Pasteurization is a method of heat-treating developed by Luis Pasteur for eliminating bacteria not within that spectra. Certain types of bacteria remain but will not expand invasively even though amongst a field of free-game food. All professional or hobby mycologists alike use this technique some, as these microbes defend semi-nutritious substrate from invasive contaminants while it is waiting to be colonized by our target mycelium in unsterile environs.


    No cow field is free of piss or bacteria. Day after day, manure paddies are partially dried and occasionally rehydrated, the baking sun fractionally "pasteurizing" them, which helps keep some of those paddies free of invasive mold and favors the selection of nitrate-fixing bacteria.
    Those "composting" bacteria can and do take up the basic waste elements and much of it ends up in compounds that many mushroom mycelium can use. This is not news! We know that bloodmeal and bonemeal are only usable in substrates when thoroughly composted first. What is this if not the composting-in of plant food, simply brief due to the dense nutrition of the seed?
    Thus the very reasons that these mushrooms can grow on such substrates in nature (that we cannot use without the "core nutrition" of grains) are the key to understudying how plant food can be used to increase the potential of substrates.


    Using plant food as an additive to grain substrates, preparing those substrates in a manner that encourages the brief flourishing of nitrate-fixing bacteria, and sterilizing only after they've had a chance to make use of our added nitrogen & phosphorous can result in a substrate loaded with potency potential. Paired with genetics that are driven to make the most of it results in a boost of power that you can practically "dial-in" to a degree... with the use of differing plant foods.

    Not all fertilizer products are the same. The different proportions of NPK (eg. 10-10-10, 20-20-20, 30-18-10 etc) describe relative amounts of Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium that the crystals or concentrate will come to have once mixed with water by proportion given in the instructions.  I might have said "experiment with several" if I thought it were a good idea to buy a bunch of different ones, but since I don't think that's a good idea I'll tell you that mixtures that have the first 2 values as 15-15- to 25-25- are what I've ended up using. 10-10- may be a good place to start.

    It's inadvisable to use much of a "heavy spoon." Mixing a certain amount more of the ferts in by proportion can leave an environment problematic for mycelium even after the bacterial process.


    "Pre-ferment" process
    This is simply an extension modification of grain preps (thread contains process details)
    After the first hydrating boil there is still a very wide range of contaminants present amongst the grains. They germinate but none flourish before the 2nd heat treatment.
    After waiting 24+hrs since the first hydrating boil of the seed, depending on how I prepared the grains I microwave the strained seed loaded in their containers (6-8min) or bring to rolling boil for 3-5 minutes then thoroughly strain (keeping the dark grain water of course!) and load into containers.

    After that second heat treatment the living organisms have been massively selected akin to pasteurization, evidently in favor of what I believe are nitrobacter and nitrosomonas.

    The fermentation progressions after then are not hard to detect. Over the next 24hrs you can make observations as to the transformation on the grains, in particular their scent. I've found that the pre-fermentation period is quite reliably about 24hrs from return to normal temps after the boil.

    Over the last many batches of grain preps I've done, I noticed that the scent of the grain stays mostly consistent until about 24-27 hours! (This is at 71-75°F; I suspect that the temperature, particularly the time of temperature reduction from the boil, is responsible for the varying time beyond 24hrs.)  At that point the grains' scent begins to transform dramatically, over 7hrs from grainy/earthy/hay thru weird overtones something like cider vinegar all the way to straight-up bacterial sour.
    I suspect they don't have to go nearly that far for desired effect & don't suggest you let them get so nasty. Sterilize 24-29 hours after the cooldown from your 2nd heat treatment.

    As long as I sterilize thoroughly anyway, staying on the edge of my PC weight's pressure for the full time, I don't get increased contaminations with this.



    It may be as hard to believe for you as it was for me. It didn't help that my first experiments yielded no such result, since I didn't do what was necessary for the additive to be put to use.
    Regardless of if you feel disbelief, skepticism, hopefulness, excitedness, or whatever, all those feelings can be fuel to the fire of finding out yourself!



    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________


    For what it's worth to you (which may not be much), I have been astoundingly impressed with the change in results from such simple alterations and fine-tuning of my process.
    My intent is only to share that experience & excitedly look to seeing adaptations, suggestions, and improvements from fellow growers!
    These have been far greater in all facets than any other methods I've experienced.
    EDIT:  except the new and modern bottle tek using these styles of containers! Yay!

    Thanks to you fellow supporters who enable this environment and the open sharing of information!


    --------------------
    Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

    PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
    The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
    Violet's Teks and Posts


    Edited by Violet (09/27/15 01:32 AM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    Invisiblemycomattie
     User Gallery


    Registered: 11/15/12
    Posts: 1,323
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
        #18135135 - 04/19/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Amazing - thanks for taking the time and effort to share your hard work!


    --------------------


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    OfflineMastaBlastar
    Ruler Of Barter Town


    Registered: 04/06/13
    Posts: 1,069
    Loc: Barter Town, AUS
    Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: mycomattie]
        #18137132 - 04/19/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Wow, awesome write up and a lot to digest, at least I will stop asking questions....til I read it a few times that is.


    --------------------
    Everything I have said, may say, will say, am thinking about saying and/or thinking/typing/dreaming/writing is in all likelyhood made up and has no factual basis in reality whatsoever, and is likely all plagiarized and copy pasted straight from someone else, so get mad at them .  Just a warning


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    Offlinesansa

    Registered: 11/17/09
    Posts: 647
    Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
        #18139322 - 04/20/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    Violet said:
    BOTTOM-WATERING




    I've been playing around with just having trays sitting out on an open shelf (no GH) and bottom watering them. They appear to be doing OK, but not fantastic. The ones I put in my GH do better. However, I like the fact that I can use a bunch of shelf space that would otherwise be wasted so I'm OK with it being a little slower.

    Have you been able to use bottom watering to take a tray all the way to fruiting with it out in the open? I'm wondering how long I should keep going with this?


    Edited by sansa (04/20/13 08:35 AM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    OfflineMadSeasonStudent
    Enjoying Life
    Male User Gallery


    Registered: 08/26/12
    Posts: 758
    Loc: Swinging on the spiral
    Last seen: 1 month, 1 day
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: sansa]
        #18139336 - 04/20/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Thanks for the write up, I will use some of the advice on the next round. Answered many questions that i was curious about, and I will try that in the next project.
    +rep---Thank you! :thumbup::peace:


    Edited by MadSeasonStudent (04/20/13 08:41 AM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    InvisibleViolet
     User Gallery


    Registered: 12/06/11
    Posts: 4,205
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: sansa]
        #18139377 - 04/20/13 08:59 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    sansa said:
    Have you been able to use bottom watering to take a tray all the way to fruiting with it out in the open? I'm wondering how long I should keep going with this?



    I don't do trays or bulk substrates anymore, except some bags I did for photos here.
    So happens I've been trying bottom-watering those in their bags after first flush.
    Whereas it seems they've soaked-up much of the water, I'm not seeing notable flushing come of them at all.
    Seems like my supposition is correct that such subs and cakes have sorta become anhydrous and difficult to water. I feel they take little advantage from it whereas such seed cakes have tons.


    Just to be clear for everyone, this thread is not presenting bottom-watering as a hydration option for other methods, just this one.
    Whether it is or not I do not fully know and am still experimenting myself just so that I can answer honestly when people ask, but it's looking like it's not much for them.


    --------------------
    Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

    PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
    The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
    Violet's Teks and Posts


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    OfflineRideAllBears
    rawr


    Registered: 08/09/12
    Posts: 166
    Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
        #18139513 - 04/20/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    I am so curious to try this from your past threads, but I have not been able to find reasonably priced grass seed. Any recommendations?


    --------------------


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    Offlinefirst time expert
    practice makes perfect
    Male User Gallery


    Registered: 02/19/13
    Posts: 1,246
    Loc: top of mount washington Flag
    Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
        #18139520 - 04/20/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    So if this is to be done, bottom watering, the whole liner in the tubs and trays are out of the picture unless they had a bunch of holes right?  So does this effect the evaporation process negatively or positively? I would assume if the environment was a bit dryer, it would in turn make the water evap. a little faster. Do you still maintain the same mist schedule or do you go a bit lighter on misting? Just a few questions. I have some small trays that are on the dry side and producing smaller mushrooms, Im sure if they had more water they would be larger. I did dunk them mid flush for 3 hrs but its hard to keep the sub in the water without damaging the pins.


    --------------------


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    InvisibleZarotti
    Stranger

    Registered: 05/12/12
    Posts: 314
    Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: RideAllBears]
        #18139770 - 04/20/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

    Quote:

    RideAllBears said:
    I am so curious to try this from your past threads, but I have not been able to find reasonably priced grass seed. Any recommendations?





    This ^
    grass seed is so expenisve in my country
    Its like 4 times the price of rye and oats

    -Are there any alternatives?

    -Why cant you use coir or fine straw as casing?


    Your text/TEK is great and very well written Prof. Dr. Violet :thumbup:


    Edited by Zarotti (04/20/13 01:24 PM)


    Extras: Filter Print Post Top
    Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | Next > | Last >

    Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Mushroom-Hut Grow Bags   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Myyco.com Pan Cyan Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


    Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
    * quick grain ( bird seed) question for the masters! dodder 3,082 14 07/26/02 10:20 AM
    by Killa420
    * grain-bird seed XAZIA 778 1 01/10/02 02:49 PM
    by ar393
    * Seeds, Grains, and more ExtravagantDream 5,107 8 12/15/12 11:28 PM
    by Mycopath666
    * bulk question Killa_J 946 2 08/26/02 07:06 AM
    by Killa_J
    * Arrowhead Mills - whole grain rye babyshroom 2,022 13 11/07/02 10:23 AM
    by babyshroom
    * colonize bulk now? darshan 1,094 5 10/08/02 08:46 PM
    by SixTango
    * Bulk Tek Beginner, Help! KalvinKlaw 3,832 9 11/17/02 02:43 PM
    by Anonymous
    * Bulk Substrate Dilemma formico20 1,801 4 01/17/02 11:50 AM
    by pj541

    Extra information
    You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
    HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
    Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
    101,154 topic views. 9 members, 131 guests and 34 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
    [ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
    Search this thread:

    Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

    Generated in 0.036 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.