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matarky
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/13
Posts: 2
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: smegzilla69]
#18724151 - 08/18/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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There's not a Lowes here but just found Menards has 5lb/5$ and does the tote size for soaking not matter then?
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: matarky]
#18724295 - 08/18/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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this thread has had a strong response, and, appears to be a rally point for the violet tek peeps.
ive been seeing violet tek results here, and, on other forums. i suspect soon, we will see even more results.
this tek, demos it doesnt have to be hard, or complex, to get serious boomage.
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: anne halonium]
#18724345 - 08/18/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just a helpful hint for those trying this tek: once you crack a tub, after 3 weeks of consolidation, I recommend putting a bug net over your containers to keep fruit-flies out. They seem to like to lay eggs in the cakes. I used a 5 gallon paint strainer (nylon) from home depot. They are about $2 for a 2 pack and work well.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: invitro]
#18724598 - 08/18/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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fungal gnats are an issue in all grows.
stocking footies , fit nicely over PP5 contianers, in situations where bugs are intense.
years ago, we had a setup that had all kinds of bugs. the common fly strips, thin all flying shit out rather well.
my understanding is, fungal gnats , require light cycle for eggs.
oddly, we rarely see them , as we use short duration LED 450 nm blue.
gnats, can be defeated.
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Edited by anne halonium (08/18/13 08:26 PM)
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CunningStunts
Stranger
Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 2
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: anne halonium]
#18724653 - 08/18/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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 Got 5050 smd blue light strips in action now! Fruits flies were annoying me. Thanks for the insight.
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smegzilla69
StrangerDanger



Registered: 09/02/12
Posts: 1,129
Last seen: 5 years, 8 days
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: CunningStunts]
#18724844 - 08/18/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Apple cider vinegar works good to trap gnats just but a glass of it beside Ur grow and they will find it
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EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes! SO DOPE "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. " Albert.
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Caps_n_Stems
Never got my grade 10.


Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 55
Loc: 1 step from insanity.
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: smegzilla69]
#18725675 - 08/19/13 01:05 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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So I'm in the process of fruiting my first few containers, and I seem to remember it being said that "they'll wanna side pin badly, but they wont"..
Not in my case. Side pins... side pins everywhere...
However I will say this. I have never seen so many pins first flush. Quite excited to see the end results!
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"He who makes a beast of himself alleviates the pain of being a man."
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Caps_n_Stems]
#18726244 - 08/19/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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i rarely see side pins.
but, pins and yield, is the cornerstone of this tek.
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Hobart Cutter
Strange


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 57
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: anne halonium]
#18727505 - 08/19/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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So, it seems after a few flushes, that grass seed yields on average 2.4x dried grams compared to an identical grow on rye, per flush.
This is, in plastic jars, about 300ml of wet substrate in each. (Thick plain verm casing. Soaked 6 hrs, excess poured off. Fruited in shotgun chamber. Re-soaked between flushes.)
The rye jars have coughed up 4.5g dry per flush. The grass seed jars 11g. Only 2 flushes so far so I will have to come back regarding their stamina.
Now, these are not ideal rye conditions, so the comparison is not fair. I did to get some kind of reference. I'm considering doing it again, but do a 50/50 coir mix with each jar...If I can be arsed.
But 11 dry grams per flush for 300ml wet grass seed is very good in any case.
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b plus

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 928
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Hobart Cutter]
#18730086 - 08/19/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Three months ago supplies were gathered to begin experimenting with this tek. Rye Berries were supplemented for Rye Seed, but everything else was left the same.
 All of the containers were inoculated via grain to grain transfer 5/25 -6 /2. Today, the the final harvest was made on the last few containers, and the subs were disposed of. While these containers were not thoroughly documented, they were carefully observed while fruiting next to similar sized horse manure/straw substrates that were were inoculated during the same time period, with the same grain spawn.




















Well, after a few months of giving this tek a try, I have a few things to say. It has potential, but is far from anything I'd consider a "bulk grow". This tek requires time and energy, and is not quite as simple as described.
On the other hand, this is defiantly an alternative method for the small-scale grower. I'd certainly recommend this method to those who are ready to move on from BRF cakes, but have no need or desire to fruit bulk substrates.
Overall, I'd have to say that my results fell short of the large consistent flush capacity that was described in the tek. MS and ISo's both produced 4-5 flushes each, very similar to a BRF cake in size and consistency. Flush size seemed to increase each flush, but decreased after the 4th flush. 5th and 6th flush were observed on a few substrates, but were quite pathetic in size and appearance.
People have been fruiting straight grain containers for decades.
 Violet has simply created an organized write-up for doing so on a larger scale. If nothing else, this tek defiantly deserves some consideration. Thanks again for your work Violet. These way's may work well for some, but I'm still not convinced it's the most efficient and effective way of doing things. If you want my honest opinion, I still prefer horse manure;)
Edited by b plus (08/20/13 03:24 AM)
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: b plus]
#18731162 - 08/20/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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wonderful commentary. the tek hits full power with clones, and, the idea of assembly line prep.
the yield on rye, is always less. hence RGS or WBR preffered.
ive noticed fert grain subs also run hotter than bulks, hence more air needed by a margin.
running em like bulks , sorta inhibits them.
good grow though b-plus.
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: anne halonium]
#18738867 - 08/21/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anne, I have some cakes that started pinning before I could get a casing on. I had trouble getting lime and other events prevented me from doing it in time. Should I mist as normal or do I need to make special consideration?
Also, the cakes that didn't seem to re-colonize I decided to keep as straight grain because I was curious to see how they would do. They only slightly re-colonized but there are pins on some of them so time will tell if they are good, I can still see the grains easily through the myc. I figure it might be just an exceptionally wispy form of myc and might just be genetic.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: invitro]
#18739082 - 08/21/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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some case, some dont, generally i do. you can play it either way.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
#18739187 - 08/21/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just read the last part of the op, about potency. Would I be right to think that according to your points about shaking and spawning to bulk, e.g. pf-cakes (or rgs-cakes ) gives the most potent shrooms? Since going bulk includes several shakings, and have less nutrient-density.
Quote:
Violet said: Just add plant food to water as directed on its bottle and use for grain preparations. Then a day after hydration microwave/boil for some minutes for bacterial selection. Sterilize another day later.
It may be as hard to believe for you as it was for me. It didn't help that my first experiments yielded no such result, since I didn't do what was necessary for the additive to be put to use.
This sounds amazing, kinnda like adding coffee to dunk water, except going right for that NP-boost! The only difference being you leave it for another 24 hr dunk after the simmer/boil part?
I never quite got was this thread was about first, found it after searching for potency threads. Have been twisting my brain lately, how shrooms have different types of potency. The ones I have been growing lately have not been that visual at all, while my head's going off the rails.. If I had several isolates, could I stock up on "visual shrooms", "drooling shrooms" "philosophers" etc, instead of just bags of "potent"? Like the coffeeshops does with their cannabis?, offer a high that suits my wishes
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: spacechildo]
#18739209 - 08/21/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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actually, space, ya can. but to avoid rioting here on this thread, it hasnt been mentioned.
ya know, you may have some promise in this hobby. im kinda impressed your catching on!
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: anne halonium]
#18739715 - 08/21/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: actually, space, ya can. but to avoid rioting here on this thread, it hasnt been mentioned.
Please warn the staff if you ever decide to let the secret out so the rest of us can prepare. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
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Quick WBS Prep
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: FooMan]
#18740039 - 08/21/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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now that ya mention it, i was gonna.
as far as the aspect of, isolating strains that vary by sub and power type, or "designer strains", we beleive its possible, but beyond the scope of this thread.
check out some of my designer lophs. ill contend ANY bio form, can be adjusted to need.
im with this thread, cuz essentially its a tek i taught violet. so naturally id have most experience for questions, since violet is pre occupied lately......
the question was asked, my experiments indicate, that thru this tek, one can dial an many possibities for power potential and effect. has anyone suggested that so far, no. its not part of tek as presented.
as said, its asked, i say yes , and thats my formed over decades opinion, with this tek.
not interested in expanding on it here ATM.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: anne halonium]
#18741234 - 08/22/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: actually, space, ya can. but to avoid rioting here on this thread, it hasnt been mentioned.
The only thing I've seen causing "riots" in here is "peeps" claiming everyone else is doing it wrong, without anything but generic sentences and pics of crappy looking shrooms to back it up with. Well, maybe besides the standard "teks will come"
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anne halonium said:
as said, its asked, i say yes , and thats my formed over decades opinion, with this tek.
not interested in expanding on it here ATM.
In respect of violet, I dont want this to be another hopeless thread. I dont need/want to argue when I know what your responses would be. However, questions was not answered at all, you just kept bragging again.
1: Is the only difference between a coffee soak and fert soak for your grains that you let them soak for another 24 hrs after boiling? Does this introduce the bacteria violet talked about in op, where she said it wouldn't work if not done correctly.
2: More nutes/grains with less bulk sub means more potent shrooms? How come there's so little info on ratios, other than 1:1 finishes faster then 1:5 ? No-one has said before that their shrooms are so much more potent when doing 1:1 instead of 1:10.
3: Does this mean cakes are superior to bulk? Because every shake ruins the myc network, hence lowering the potency..?
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: spacechildo]
#18741888 - 08/22/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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So let me try to catch up. regarding potency, you are stating that shaking, ruins the mycelial network lowering potency? What reason is there to believe this? Shaking clearly increases colonization time, distributing mycelial mass more evenly.
Now, doesnt the mycelium bind together once again when they come into contact again?
Mass and volume are already determined via the garin and genetics determine density of the mycelium. so regardless of shaking or not, a fully colonized sub will have the same density regardless of whether its shaken or not.
that's like saying cloning a cannabis will reduce potency.
If thid is the case it can be easily proven by using a monoculture to grow out a brf style cake, which is never shaken, and a bulk grow which is shaken and spawned to a higher amount of sub and comparing potency.
personally i find this hard to believe.
We all know senescence is possible by expanding mycelium exponentially, but it does not occur from immediate expansion in a single generation.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: b plus]
#18742466 - 08/22/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: since violet is pre occupied lately......
Yes very.
Quote:
spacechildo said: 1: Is the only difference between a coffee soak and fert soak for your grains that you let them soak for another 24 hrs after boiling? Does this introduce the bacteria violet talked about in op, where she said it wouldn't work if not done correctly.
Yes it does this, altho your description misses the steps, it requires 2 boils each followed by 24+hr periods after. This I've been observing very closely lately in particular. What I might call my findings have interested me very much!
The 2nd boil heat treatment is to selectively destroy contaminants. After the first hydrating boil there is still a very wide range of contaminants present amongst the grains, nearly anything you can imagine. None seem to begin to flourish before the initial 24hrs to the 2nd heat treatment. After waiting 24+hrs since the first hydrating boil of the seed, I microwave the strained seed in the containers or bring to boil for a few minutes then strain (keeping the dark grain water of course!) and load into containers. After that second heat treatment the living organisms have been massively selected akin to pasteurization, evidently in favor of what I believe are nitrobacter and nitrosomonas.
The fermentation progressions after then are not hard to experience yourself. Over the next 24hrs you can make observations as to the transformation on the grains, in particular their scent. I've found that the pre-fermentation period is quite reliably about 24hrs from return to normal temps after the boil. By pre-fermentation I mean the period before hard & smelly fermentation is occurring. Over the last 3 or 4 batches of grain preparations I've done, I've noticed that the scent of the grain stays mostly consistent until about 24-27 hours! This is at 75°F; I suspect that the temperature, particularly the time of temperature reduction from the boil, is responsible for the varying time beyond 24hrs. At that point the scent of the grains begins to transform dramatically, over 7hrs from grainy/earthy/grassy thru weird overtones something like cider vinegar all the way to straight-up bacterial sour. I suspect they don't have to go nearly that far for desired effect & don't suggest you let them get so nasty. Sterilize 24-28 hours after cooldown from your 2nd heat treatment. Point is that these patterns in the organisms seem to follow a ~24hr cycle very well, perhaps even naturally! Certainly they're built around the natural 24hr cycles of the sun, and the fractional 24-hr cycle of "pasteurizations" from the sun are one of the factors in creating the proper and selective environments for the fungi out in the cow patties :]
Quote:
omegafaust said: regarding potency, you are stating that shaking, ruins the mycelial network lowering potency? What reason is there to believe this? Shaking clearly increases colonization time, distributing mycelial mass more evenly.
You say shaking increases colonization time? It may have a "recovery" time, but no sir, it's usually done for the point being to decrease colonization time and it does it well. Do you suppose that distributing the mycelium and achieving colonization more or less quickly has any effect on potency, positive or negative?
I don't feel that it has much effect in and of itself, but when entangled with other concerns I think it effects potency indeed.
When there's no reason to break up the original colonization in order to reach 100%, it means they're reaching consolidation steps sooner. Remember that the growth of the initial colonization is fueled by the grain's nutrients. Although of course mycelium survives in the surfaces of colonized grains, much of it is badly battered and perhaps destroyed by the shake. The recovery and new growth require more of the grains nutrients. It may seem like a negligible amount to some, but when you start stacking seeming negligibles...
Psilos are the results of metabolic processes. It's created by mycelium over time in the bio process as it matures. Breaking up a colony starts that cycle over from 0, delaying the development of potency.
Oftentimes after being broken-up and spread, when mycelium embedded within the grains recovers and reclaims outside territory beginning recolonization, it doesn't appear as thick and dense. This may not always be the case, but the dynamics of why it's sometimes visible are surely always present. IMO(IME) the mycelium simply 'likes' growing this way moreso and it's easy to gather why.
Many factors come together to create potency - best potency comes of bringing them together in best form, not maximizing any particular one!
Quote:
b plus said: It has potential, but is far from anything I'd consider a "bulk grow". This tek requires time and energy, and is not quite as simple as described.
They all require time and energy. I've found this one quite clearly requires a good bit less of both. What did you not experience being as simple as described? Personally, as I 'get' the tek and it's very easy for me, I think it's simple as shit and hardly spend any time doing the tek at all (by comparison) and yet get the same kind of results. Perhaps it's understanding the tek or its simplicity that wasn't as simple as you thought.
Quote:
b plus said: On the other hand, this is defiantly an alternative method for the small-scale grower. I'd certainly recommend this method to those who are ready to move on from BRF cakes, but have no need or desire to fruit bulk substrates.
Overall, I'd have to say that my results fell short of the large consistent flush capacity that was described in the tek. MS and ISo's both produced 4-5 flushes each, very similar to a BRF cake in size and consistency. Flush size seemed to increase each flush, but decreased after the 4th flush. 5th and 6th flush were observed on a few substrates, but were quite pathetic in size and appearance.
Similar to what Anne said above - beyond really understanding the water dynamic & conditions, culturing styled from/for this tek really makes or breaks ones perceived success. In fact I consider the greater perceived variability of success with this tek as one indicator of the "playing-field-leveling" qualities of colonizing watermass bulk sub.
I'm glad to see your photos and thoughts, but you and all else ought keep in mind; more than the tek's success you're showing us YOUR success. Simply put, you can do better than that. See where this sentence hinges: "Overall, I'd have to say that my results fell short of the large consistent flush capacity that was described in the tek." My results did not.
No tek takes the responsibility of success away from the grower! Peeps it's really important to handle culture & develop an organic understanding of the watering process and conditions if you want best results!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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