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Jassassin
Shenanigan Maker



Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 191
Loc: North America
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18613035 - 07/26/13 01:22 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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So the 50 mL: 1 g didn't allow for rhizomorphic (the white fuzzy goodness, right?) growth or... Your second batch that you detail worked out much better?
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Jassassin]
#18613603 - 07/26/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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In a nutshell, rhizo growth is the ropy growth and is caused by lack of nutrients. The myc's way of reaching out and scouting for food. The white fuzzy growth occurs when there are plenty of available nutrients and the myc doesn't have to go searching for it. Don't get me wrong, the first batch did great, only no rhizo growth until they fully colonized the plates and started to grow vertically. You can see the first batch in the first two links in my sig, and the second batch in the second and and third links (different logs for different strains. 50mL for every 1g of agar is still what I used, I just diluted the soak water to 1/5 as nutritious.
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Jassassin
Shenanigan Maker



Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 191
Loc: North America
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18614412 - 07/26/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh! I see now. Thank you for clarifying that. I have totally read those posts before, but only now realized that it's YOU.... Looks funny when I type this. Haha! I really do appreciate the clarification. I'm looking into the whole agar thing for my next "production line" as PFTek is WAY too much work. Violet's tek seems like the way to go, as far as fast, now, and very little to do once you get it moving along.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Jassassin]
#18614542 - 07/26/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah. I'm stuck using glass jars for now, but am doing my best to adapt to it. Got a batch of NPK infused jars ready for PC'ing today. Having REALLY good first pin set on the straight GS (cased) blocks right now.
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Hobart Cutter
Strange


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 57
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18614952 - 07/26/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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I usually have good results with LC, except on grass seed! It just failed to start on two of four jars. The LC was second generation though. Perhaps the culture had gotten to adapted to living on sugar.
But I have to concur regarding the power of grass seed. When it grows, it grows. The mycelium becomes aggressive and recovers quickly from shakes. It's probably better bang for the buck than rye.
I think I'll save my rye for truffle grows in the future.
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Edited by Hobart Cutter (07/26/13 01:28 PM)
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Hobart Cutter]
#18615031 - 07/26/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Has anyone tried truffles with GS?
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LungCheeseFungus
Stranger Everyday


Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 75
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18615225 - 07/26/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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I may be mistaken, but I believe it was the general consensus in this thread that rye is preferred for sclerotia-only growing. But surely the grass seed will work. Violet made a good write up on the stones, if anyone hasn't read it yet.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: LungCheeseFungus]
#18615288 - 07/26/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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violet has links to extensive truffle work, let her catch up.
im watching this thread, and, making note of questions. i have answers and pics. its a club weekend, so im separated from my drives right now i need to catch up also.
its mid summer weekend peeps. stay tuned.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: LungCheeseFungus]
#18616480 - 07/26/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
shamanamba said: LC's...

LC's = FAIL
I mostly agree. IMO they're only worth doing to share edible/medicinal species cultures with peeps starting out.
Quote:
ghiajake said: My agar was extremely nutritious (not allowing rhizo growth).
This seems to depend on the culture's dispositions as well as on the media. IMO more on the culture than media. Sometimes even with consistent media it will switch back and forth for various, arbitrary, or unknown reasons.
Consider - if a culture rhizos heavily on grains, is it still feasable to say it's because it's low in nutrition? (No) Or that the culture just wants to? (Yes)
I have some that rope on strong grainwater agar as on grain, and some that never do it. Neither enriching nor diluting the media affects this for those cultures.
IME if ya really want a rhizo-heavy strain, take those that rhizo even on rich media. IMO don't place too much importance on rhizo strains anyway.
I could take some nice grainwater agar rhizo pictures of one of my best rhizo strains sometime, and add them here for fun if peeps would like :]
Quote:
ghiajake said: Has anyone tried truffles with GS?
Quote:
LungCheeseFungus said: I may be mistaken, but I believe it was the general consensus in this thread that rye is preferred for sclerotia-only growing. But surely the grass seed will work.
I love grass seed SO MUCH. SO MUCH. But for sclerotia, it annoys the piss out of me. It has a tendency (particularly if 'shaken down' after inoc instead of left loose) to consolidate thick and cause most stones to form against their containers, in which case causing a lower yield despite the appearance of big stones outside. The larger grains leave more places amongst them for stones to start and flourish. Whether this happens or not the grains are so tiny and embedded in the surface of the sclerotia that it's a pain in the ass to remove all the eaten seeds from them in harvesting. For certain you're unlikely to yield more sclerotia with grass seed than other grains, so it's pointless to pay more for the grain also just to work harder to clean them off.
Here's my comment about it on Mycomattie's RGS sclerotia gro- -and here's his response/experience feedback in my truf tek
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (07/26/13 06:10 PM)
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Jassassin
Shenanigan Maker



Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 191
Loc: North America
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
#18617514 - 07/26/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Quote:
ghiajake said: My agar was extremely nutritious (not allowing rhizo growth).
This seems to depend on the culture's dispositions as well as on the media. IMO more on the culture than media. Sometimes even with consistent media it will switch back and forth for various, arbitrary, or unknown reasons.
Consider - if a culture rhizos heavily on grains, is it still feasable to say it's because it's low in nutrition? (No) Or that the culture just wants to? (Yes)
I have some that rope on strong grainwater agar as on grain, and some that never do it. Neither enriching nor diluting the media affects this for those cultures.
IME if ya really want a rhizo-heavy strain, take those that rhizo even on rich media. IMO don't place too much importance on rhizo strains anyway.
I could take some nice grainwater agar rhizo pictures of one of my best rhizo strains sometime, and add them here for fun if peeps would like :]
I would like that! So what I gleaned here is that maybe rhizo growth is not the place to concentrate my attentions. How do you choose what to isolate? How fast the rhizomorphic growth happens? Or size....? Or...what? I am a little lost.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Jassassin]
#18618152 - 07/27/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm a noob too when it comes to agar and sector selection. I figured on just picking the meanest, toughest, fastest, and angriest looking myc in the "Hood" , then breed that fucker. Like mushroom dog fightin', bet on the meanest one!
Edited by ghiajake (07/27/13 01:56 AM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18619581 - 07/27/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Rhizos are cool, and they do seem to colonize faster, but once you've been growing for a while you're not so much of a stickler for colonizing speed. What really becomes most important for you is fruiting performance, and in the case of Psilocybes, power!
IMO, the way to go is to Clone nicely-sized fruits in dense clusters, pick the fastests growths from that, and pick the most prolific fruiters from those. Saves lots of dishes too.
This badass isolate NEVER rhizos:
 
I've yet to determine if this super-rhizo culture is any better:
  
Both were isolated from clones.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
#18619766 - 07/27/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've got those dense clusters growing now. Had planned on taking prints from the best of the clusters, but I'll try cloning now also. Thanks again, and nice pics.
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Sam.I.Am
can i come along?



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 2
Loc: willamette valley
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Jassassin]
#18619828 - 07/27/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I would like that! So what I gleaned here is that maybe rhizo growth is not the place to concentrate my attentions. How do you choose what to isolate? How fast the rhizomorphic growth happens? Or size....? Or...what? I am a little lost. 
Well hey I've not grown all that much and probably am wrong as heck here but picking the rhyzo areas for propagation certainly doesn't hurt anything. I've seen one strain that consistently refused to put out any rhyzo growth or only for a little while. 
Fast is happy but slow is good too. I've heard that the slower growing strains are more potent and I'm eager to get into that stuff.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Sam.I.Am]
#18619916 - 07/27/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fast growth is only good for the cultivator, IMO. Old southern saying is' "Anything worth doing is worth taking the time to do it right." Nature produces great results from multispore, naturally selected growth over multiple generations. And does is way faster than we can. From the cow's mouth to shroom in less than a week. Again, that's just my opinion.
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Jassassin
Shenanigan Maker



Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 191
Loc: North America
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18622044 - 07/28/13 12:55 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow! Okay. I see. How do you clone something? Do you like...hack a piece of rhizo off and stick it in a petri dish....? I know I could look this up but you're way ahead of any game I had in mind! And great pictures Violet. I'm so jelly I might turn into peanut butter.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Jassassin]
#18622711 - 07/28/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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You take a sliver of tissue from inside the stem of the mushie you wish to clone.
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shamanamba
The Shaman



Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: ghiajake]
#18623750 - 07/28/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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i always liked taking a healthy pin, slice it in half with a sterile scalpel, and put each half, flat side down, on a petri dish. Pins go so fast, nothing else has much of a chance to contaminate it.
RR doesn't even slice it. he just drops a whole pin onto a dish and it still hauls ass across the agar.
-------------------- The Shaman
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,923
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: shamanamba]
#18623757 - 07/28/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good to know. Doing agar work so I'll do it like that today. Thanks.
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invitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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Re: •Seed & Plastic• Myco Match from Heaven: a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
#18629544 - 07/29/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to this tek. My question about this tek is: If I have a fully colonized cake of straight grains and the cake starts to pull away from the walls after 1 week of full consolidation, should I add water at that point? And after adding water can I continue with the lid on until 3 weeks has passed or do I need to move it into fruiting conditions?
here is the mini-tub: it's 7 quart and the grains are about 2 inches deep.
I used about 2 quart jars to make this tub by spooning them out when they were fully colonized in the jars.
Some background information: I had some quart jars of rye grain colonizing when I found this thread, and I read almost every post. So my understanding is that 3 weeks is the perfect amount of time to let the myc digest the grains before going to fruiting conditions. So that's what I'm shooting for but it's only been about 8 days now.
I also read that pins tend to form around the time the cake starts to pull away from the walls. would pins form even if the lid was still on? I have no pins yet.
On a side note: there are 4-5 sites where metabolites have built up, is this normal? Here is a pic of the bottom of the tub, where most of the metabolites have appeared:

curiously, I have 3 other little tubs (with a capacity of about 1.5-2 quarts, each one is partially filled with spawn in the same fashion and were made at the same time, yet they have not pulled away from the sub or had any metabolites show up. The lids of those containers are loosely placed on top of their containers. Here is a pic:

also a pic of the 7 quart style containers with their lids on
, again the lid is just loosely placed on top with no visible crack, hopefully just enough air exchange is able to take place this way.
on a final note, there is a little puddle of water as condensation has formed drops on the lid and has fallen down below, the puddle is very shallow, perhaps 1millimeter deep. Also several water drops have landed on top of the cake itself but do not appear to be harming anything.
thanks all!
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