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Offlinesmurf_master
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18459399 - 06/23/13 03:05 AM (11 years, 9 days ago)

Got my first pins!

From one of the jars I cracked in my SGFC. No pins yet on my monotub 12 still waiting.

Question about the bottom watering, do you water before pins form or afterwards?

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InvisibleLungCheeseFungus
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: smurf_master]
    #18461050 - 06/23/13 01:53 PM (11 years, 8 days ago)

Hey Violet, got a couple more quick questions for ya. I think the first one blends into a previous question asked by PrimalSoup. I hope the second one does not violate your blanket rule. If so, let me know and a Moderator or I will edit it ASAP.

During consolidation, can I leave the lids cracked like for sterilization? Or how can I achieve optimal gas exchange for consolidation without initiating fruiting?

I thought I read something about preforming this optional fertilizer experiment without a microwave. But I read it again and can't seem to find it. Any Light to shine of this subject?

It's nice to see this thread being woven into a nice piece of fabric, and I look forward to the end product that it will make when all the measurements are taken, the pieces are sown together, and the excess is cut off, i.e., a well rounded and proven technique. Thanks to all the OMC. And Violet, pass some extra gratitude on to this "incredibly experienced grower and wonderful person" for us, if you could.


--------------------
If you have not found something worth dieing for, you have found nothing worth living for.

The most effective barrier to knowledge, is the illusion of it.

Is there any long time member here that used to have the handle "Mr. Cool" elsewhere? PM me.

Edited by LungCheeseFungus (06/23/13 02:02 PM)

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: LungCheeseFungus]
    #18461247 - 06/23/13 02:52 PM (11 years, 8 days ago)

So after a test run realized the hole with the band-aid filter was gonna have to be on the side of the jar, on the top you can't stack them. :lol:

First completely successful run shown. These are gonna get PE agar wedges later today.  Happy happy, liking the tek so far.  Many advantages here...



Oh yeah, one other thing, rather than pouring boiling water onto seed, I boiled the water in a big kettle and poured the seed in there, stirred it like mad.  Seemed to work really well, virtually nothing left over and they cooked up lovely.  Smelled wonderful too, much better than cooked rye berries. :wink:

:peace:PS

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18464609 - 06/24/13 09:57 AM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Gas Exchange during colonization/consolidation.
It's quite a topic, one that could be gone more in-depth into. It's sortof a bit difficult to however as the right approach may be different for each grower. So I'll discuss it a little, but readers should remember to grapple this topic with their own adept minds!


As said before here, whether you end up slightly cracking loose the lids for a little GE before fully-colonized largely depends on method of inoc and speed/hardiness of culture.
If you must crack those lids before fully colonized, BE CAREFUL! It's possible that you could expose contaminants in the act. The smallest crack loose is probably enough, so be gentle!

In some of my experiments with this, I learned that success with cracking lids wide before fully colonized partly has to do with how clean your area is, and how much airflow there is in it. When some of my partially colonized containers had lids cracked rather loose in an area where there had been serious penicillium outbreak, ALL of them succumbed to the penicillium.
As long as I kept the lids only slightly cracked in the same environments and wait as long into colonization as seems plausible, no such failures occurred.


Once it's fully colonized, you have practically NO dangers whatsoever in cracking the lids to give them a little breath for their chew time, especially if you wait many days to do it. However, remember that such small substrates don't need tons of GE for the same reason I don't actively exchange fresh air in my fruiting chambers!


So far, all of the containers that I've consolidated for quite some time before fruiting all were totally air-tight. It's hard to see how large of an effect this has on consolidation. I'm sure I'll be leaving some cracked in the future but suspect that they're likely to start fruiting early, like MaJik_420's. Not that this is a problem but I'd prefer they start fruiting in fruiting conditions.



One thing is sure with me: With few exceptions, and those exceptions being for n00bs, I will blanket recommend peeps NOT modify their containers! Leave them their whole lives like they were off the store shelf!

PS, So many maimed containers!  Tsk tsk.
Might I ask, are you averse to the loose-lid sterilization? I saw that your first round of containers were snap-down lids, but I suspect those can be snapped down immediately upon opening the cooker, especially if you have something like laminar flow or if the PC fits in glovebox lol.
Perhaps you were just waiting on my word for GE during consolidation. Nutshell; I'm not yet sure that GE, or very much, is important during that phase. As I mentioned above, I'll have to see, but I suspect that little to none would make a difference and would only inspire them to begin fruiting invitro before 2-4 weeks consolidating have passed, and especially if you're shooting at 4-6 weeks for the potency project.


Quote:

unteagle said:
I thought mycelium would drown if submerged in water. Aren't your cakes on the bottom of the container? Also does it not increase contam risks.
Also how do u bottom water? Are there holes in the containers to allow water in. If so, where?



No holes. "How do you bottom water" is as simple as adding water to the bottom of the containers once the sub has pulled away from the sides.
Quote:

smurf_master said:

Question about the bottom watering, do you water before pins form or afterwards?



Usually you can't add water until pins have been growing since it's at that point that the cakes should begin to shrink which is what leaves space for the water.

Man your containers are loaded so high! You guys really load up!

I suggest smaller subs. I ask: Do you want the most results per container or per seed? Interestingly enough, half-loaded containers hit the sweet spot of both.

(they also lead to far fewer side-pin scenarios like yours smurfmaster)

Quote:

LungCheeseFungus said:
I thought I read something about preforming this optional fertilizer experiment without a microwave. But I read it again and can't seem to find it. Any Light to shine of this subject?



It just depends on how you prepare your grain. With my grain prep the grains are not submerged in water so I cannot "boil" them for the second treatment 24hrs later, so I microwave flash treat them instead. If you boil your grains a round on a stove OR microwave, then you can boil them another round a day later however you choose as well.

Clarifying how to use ferts in this tek is welcome here, it's part of the tek; only debate about using them period and/or as a part of this tek is off the floor.

I'll also reiterate… don't expect any clear results from using the ferts unless you allow plenty of time (at least 20hrs) after prep before the 2nd heat treatment, and same after that treatment until sterilization.

Quote:

LungCheeseFungus said:
Thanks to all the OMC. And Violet, pass some extra gratitude on to this "incredibly experienced grower and wonderful person" for us, if you could.



Oh this person knows :]


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (06/24/13 11:29 AM)

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18465204 - 06/24/13 12:49 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

PS, So many maimed containers!  Tsk tsk.




:lolwut: 

It is their new purpose in plastic life.  Much like my collection of quart jars, many of which came from the Goodwill at $.29 apiece, they serve this function until they crack - or now, with new tek taking over, return to whence they came. :lol: 

They will be recycled in the sweet bye and bye, either when they crack and fail, or when my cold dead fingers can no longer light the lamp nor grip the scalpel to work my culturing. At that point ain't nobody gonna want these well used containers anyway... :shrug:

As I see it, the advantage of storage space required alone is a nod in favor of the tek.  When in a nongrowing phase I can stack all the little blue devils up and store them in the SAB in the closet above my FC.  Without several dozen jars and a fleet of minitubs taking up room everywhere, I get a more compact operation that unfolds into what I need when I need it.  Grain or seed, it goes in a 5 gallon bucket for protection from moths and serves as a table surface.  And I can give up on the monotubs I've never quite gotten around to. :lol:

Plus it's tidy and extensible: minimal supplies required (seed, casing); if I need more containers I can get them at the grocery store easily, unlike jars, autoclavable lids and filter discs.

So since you ask:
Quote:


Might I ask, are you averse to the loose-lid sterilization? I saw that your first round of containers were snap-down lids, but I suspect those can be snapped down immediately upon opening the cooker, especially if you have something like laminar flow or if the PC fits in glovebox lol.




Absolutely.  I have terrible penicillin and pin-mold prevalent in my house in general, along with trich and god knows what else.  It gets into my agar and I've lost multiple bulk grows to the damn greenies.  Any exposure to contams via infiltration into the 50 year-old PC is too much.  No laminar flow, no glovebox for the PC, want the lowest tek that does the job.  I don't trust the seals on the snap-lids, those have gone to recycle-land. A slight goof in handling and the lids pop off - instant waste if growing.  Screw on containers are tightly sealed and durable against handling errors, stack like turtles.

Quote:

Perhaps you were just waiting on my word for GE during consolidation. Nutshell; I'm not yet sure that GE, or very much, is important during that phase. As I mentioned above, I'll have to see, but I suspect that little to none would make a difference and would only inspire them to begin fruiting invitro before 2-4 weeks consolidating have passed, and especially if you're shooting at 4-6 weeks for the potency project.




For long term consolidation you MUST have GE or the growth simply stalls when it depletes the oxygen.  The whole idea is to keep the myc in vegetative mode chewing away at its food stock until introduced to fruiting.  I've seen fruits develop OVERNIGHT once this trigger is thrown.  It was unreal.  All those experiments were done with GE through Micropore tape on two 1/2" holes  on the sides of the 5 qt minitubs, with a folded over compostable liner for the cased sub.  I could and probably will run a control in the test batch where I'll put electrical tape over the bandaid vent.  Sacrifice one for science. :wink:

In my current hit-or-miss PE grow I'm getting excellent fruiting.  This is the culture I'll be trying with the grass seed first.  If the little blue devils support the same kind of fruiting as the coir/verm/gypsum/coffee sub (at 1:4 spawn ratio) I'll count it as successful.  If not - well I only used one bag of seed and mutilated a dozen containers.  It's nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let me into heaven for.

Study this picture, 40 days consolidation with GE only:    They pin but cannot fruit.

And this, the fruiting result, overnight: 

Those baby snakes are the best it could do without FAE.  Or so it all seems to me. :thumbup:

Yah, well, enough hijacking...:bow:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18465350 - 06/24/13 01:25 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Well ok then! :grin:

The ones I originally tried had siliconed SFD circles on them. I stacked them anyway. Like keeping foil on PF-Tek lids, I don't figure that having another container on top stops CO2 from being forced out due to buildup. But it may.


I feel you on the prevalent molds. Have 'em at my place too. As long as I only slightly crack the (unmodified) lids after they've colonized for quite some time, I don't get the attacks.
However I do indeed use sterile laminar airflow so I don't give myself the challenge inoculating that you have.
Commendable, but inadvisable!  Of course, you know this already :tongue2:
For what it's worth, in line with our brief chat about this earlier on, I've yet to see a contaminated container from sterilizing cracked-lid.


I had been wondering if your long-consolidated tubs/trays with only GE were monotub-style. Now I know.
I'm of a mind that 'monos' don't really need "GE" because of how much gas they contain already, just like agar dishes. The proportion of mycelium to space is so low they they have everything they need for quite some time. This is what I think helps in keeping these containers unmodified even for consolidation. But, if the containers are over-loaded like these other peeps have been doing, it can't work out that way!

As said above, it would be different for every grower, but perhaps a momentary lid crack only on occasion would give them enough of a breath to keep metabolizing. Though in contam-ridden places like yours PS and mine, it might not be smart to do this without the safety of a glovebox or sterile airflow.

Those are some things I intend to play around with soon as well :sherlock2:


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineMaJiK_420
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18466196 - 06/24/13 05:21 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

I wanted to add that I admit I have been overloading my containers. I think I read somewhere that GS doesn't plump up as much as other grains, so I took that to mean that it doesn't expand at all. Silly noob mistake; I did the same thing with my WBS jars at first too, overloading them because I didn't factor in expansion after soaking.  I am learning that a little over half full seems to be about right now. I also have more containers on the way.

Since I had my containers overfull, I figured that they would surely not have enough space for air as your containers would, so I have let them colonize with the lid cracked since day one. Most of them colonized completely before pinning. That one just went hulk mode early as hell for some reason.

I cant remember if I have posted this pic of the LawnGS I am using compared to RGS(for lawns too) that I found:

Seems like since its smaller it stays a little wetter somehow.


I let my first flush go and then I am gonna start the bottom water with just a little bit at time and see how it soaks up.

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18467187 - 06/24/13 08:28 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

I feel you on the prevalent molds. Have 'em at my place too. As long as I only slightly crack the (unmodified) lids after they've colonized for quite some time, I don't get the attacks.
However I do indeed use sterile laminar airflow so I don't give myself the challenge inoculating that you have.




I've not much problem with inoculating so long as I exercise care and slow movement in the SAB.  And remember to wipe down the inside and let it sit for a while.  But a flowhood or proper glovebox has been on my list for a long time - where it competes with dozens of other projects. :lol:

Sterile technique requires attention to detail for success.  With that you can use almost any setup.  But it's always easy to make mistakes.  The more you do it the better you get. :thumbup:

Quote:

I had been wondering if your long-consolidated tubs/trays with only GE were monotub-style. Now I know.
I'm of a mind that 'monos' don't really need "GE" because of how much gas they contain already, just like agar dishes. The proportion of mycelium to space is so low they they have everything they need for quite some time. This is what I think helps in keeping these containers unmodified even for consolidation. But, if the containers are over-loaded like these other peeps have been doing, it can't work out that way!




Oh well, thought you'd seen that.  Yes, a mono has plenty of air in it.  I'm packing these screw-top containers about 2-1/2" deep, allowing only for casing.  My usual bulk sub is around that.  Since the seed doesn't much clump it should be easy to innoc and roll around.

I agree cracking them will provide GE if needed.  But ideally I'd manufacture a whole mess of these, they just go to sit for a month or two before fruiting - no attention needed, and no contams.  That would be excellent.

:peace:PS


--------------------

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Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Offlinesmurf_master
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18470280 - 06/25/13 02:59 PM (11 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Usually you can't add water until pins have been growing since it's at that point that the cakes should begin to shrink which is what leaves space for the water.

Man your containers are loaded so high! You guys really load up!

I suggest smaller subs. I ask: Do you want the most results per container or per seed? Interestingly enough, half-loaded containers hit the sweet spot of both.

(they also lead to far fewer side-pin scenarios like yours smurfmaster)




Good to know for my next batch, I assumed the more the merrier.

Is it worth black taping the bottoms so i dont get side pins on this batch? The one jar that had all those pins looked too good to let them die so I popped it out and dumped the casing layer, gonna try and roll it in verm since it's in my SGFC anyway.


My 12 in the monotub dont seem to be doing much, how often do you recommend misting and faning them ? and may I ask how long does it usually take your cakes to colonize the casing layer?

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OfflineCaps_n_Stems
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: smurf_master]
    #18473843 - 06/26/13 09:03 AM (11 years, 5 days ago)

Simply amazing, Violet.

I wish I hadn't found this thread after I bought a shit ton of glass ware :lol:.

Anywho, I've spent the week reading and re-reading your tek, and I cannot wait to get this rolling. Got the supplies now, all except the RGS. I plan using the rye berries I have instead.

I must say that this tek has really inspired me. So thank you very much for being so thorough.


--------------------
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Offlinesmegzilla69
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Caps_n_Stems]
    #18477071 - 06/26/13 10:40 PM (11 years, 5 days ago)

Do u think this will work its a "contractors mix" supposed to be a rye mix but its off season and nowhere has pure rgs that's not 15lbs/$40 locally. It has some type of powder that Is supposed to help the grass hold water...? I figure I can rinse it off.



--------------------

EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN
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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: smurf_master]
    #18479460 - 06/27/13 12:43 PM (11 years, 4 days ago)

Eww, no.
Maybe if it REALLY washed off, but I'd be wary of using it period.

Use some other grain. This thread features grass seed because there's been no great prep method (especially one that works perfectly for all grains) and because most people seem unaware of its advantages which very much compliment the teks advantages too.
But you can use any grain, particularly small/medium grains like Rice in particular as well as millet/milo (WBS), rye, wheat, whole oats, etc.


Quote:

smurf_master said:
Is it worth black taping the bottoms so i dont get side pins on this batch?



I'd say, no. Let grow what grows.

Quote:

smurf_master said:
My 12 in the monotub dont seem to be doing much, how often do you recommend misting and faning them ? and may I ask how long does it usually take your cakes to colonize the casing layer?



Any recommendation I'd make would be moot. There's no single recommendation that works for sure in all cases. It depends on if your casing layers dry out, and if so how quickly.
These small cakes don't need as much fresh air exchange as large substrates by a long shot. More air exchange than necessary means more moisture loss from casing/sub surface than necessary. Especially if your totes have 'mono'-style holes in them, they'll get plenty enough exchange just from the misting routine.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18479667 - 06/27/13 01:54 PM (11 years, 4 days ago)

Would it be beneficial to tape off some of my mono tub holes...since the smaller containers require less air exchange?


--------------------
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: scooter61]
    #18480115 - 06/27/13 03:34 PM (11 years, 4 days ago)

Probably. Mono blocks don't get enough air exchange in those FCs, but needing less as these cakes do it's possible that fine-tuning them could involve rather less exchange.
Anne Halonium doesn't modify totes at all, just fans them 2-3 times a day, and uses a fan that blows out the room as well.

This is something few home growers pay attention to - CO2 doesn't just build up in the chambers, it builds up in the room, and even whole home. This is why it's often difficult to grow Oyster mushrooms indoors. Our own breath, as well as that of any pets present, attributes to the same buildup that causes CO2-sensitive mushrooms to have problems forming proper fruits.
Fresh air in the chamber is much easier to achieve if the house has nice fresh air too. Most don't circulate well.

Point being that I can't give accurate advice about such matters over the internet! It's not hard to fine-tune your environment though!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineCaps_n_Stems
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18508458 - 07/03/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quick question, Violet.

Say if someone were to have already PC'd 1/2pint jars of rye, and then discovered this awesomely simple tek, acquired the containers and a new monotub and a SAB was made to do it all safely, and wanted to transfer the rye to the containers before g2g with a colonized rye jar.

Would you recommend sterilizing the new containers featured in your tek before transferring?

And if so, how would you do it? PC just the containers for 15 mins @15psi?


--------------------
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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: smegzilla69]
    #18508549 - 07/03/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

smegzilla69 said:
Do u think this will work its a "contractors mix" supposed to be a rye mix but its off season and nowhere has pure rgs that's not 15lbs/$40 locally. It has some type of powder that Is supposed to help the grass hold water...? I figure I can rinse it off.






Lookie here....  20 bucks for 25 lbs delivered to your door...  kinda hard to beat price wise for rgs and there are no additives.

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Caps_n_Stems]
    #18511794 - 07/04/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Caps_n_Stems said:
Say if someone were to have already PC'd 1/2pint jars of rye, and then discovered this awesomely simple tek, acquired the containers and a new monotub and a SAB was made to do it all safely, and wanted to transfer the rye to the containers before g2g with a colonized rye jar.
Would you recommend sterilizing the new containers featured in your tek before transferring?
And if so, how would you do it? PC just the containers for 15 mins @15psi?




Let me get this straight: You've sterilized but not inoc'd some jars of rye and are wanting to transfer the sterile rye to containers then inoc the rye in the containers?

Well, it's possible, and yes you'd sterilize the containers first... but that's very pointless and out-of-the-way, not to mention an extra step towards failure. Just use your jars as you'd planned and prep some new rye for the containers.

It's also possible to break-up colonized grain into such containers, have them recover/consolidate then case & fruit, but it doesn't work at all as well as colonizing grains within the container and consolidating that way.

Just start fresh with the containers!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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OfflineBleedThatMule
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18512222 - 07/04/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Mycelium will not take to straw, coir, manure, compost, vermiculite etc. without a nutritional core. The nutrients from the grains they started from are used to expand the mycelium over the other lesser-nutritious substrate.

It's called 'bulk' substrate because it's easy to get free/cheap in large amounts, not because it makes bulk mushrooms. You may use it for growing bulk mushrooms, but do not forget the bulk of grain that it requires.





First I'll say props for using logic to try and innovate!

:manofapproval:


This just isn't correct though :facepalm:

I've PERSONALLY knocked up two huge bags of straw with Hoog LC, 1 bag of straw with some cube LC, and 4 bags of coir/shit with LC. I've only successfully fruited 3 of the total bags but each cube (and currently almost the 2 Hoogs) reached 100%. It works!!!:rockon:

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that your claims aren't correct, and in my opinion this is even harder than it has to be.

Myco-bags are ~50 cents a pop, you can sterilize up to ~10 lbs (maybe more?)in them, and they're easy to knock up. Oh, and they can be sealed with simple masking tape!
:hahyeahwoo:

All one must do is put the coir into a bucket, cold water, no pasteurization. Sometimes we'll use cow shit, worm shit etc as a boost but it's not necessary. As I said you can sterilize gargantuan amounts of grain but a bulk substrate (especially one that fights mold as well as coir!) can colonize off of a quart or even less if you wanted to wait long enough!
:noargument:

With some proper additions to your coir (and pasteurization! I always pasteurize but it's not NECESSARY) the nutrition will be there...so there should be no reason it wouldn't produce some good yields under good circumstances. :shrug:

Anyway...1 quart (or 10 if you feel like it!) mixed in with the coir straight in the bucket...then portion into bags, clip off and forget them. Essentially maintenance free, on average we got 1 z. dry per flush per bag...with maybe 3/4 of a brick of coir with ~3 qts of spawn in each....not a waste of effort or money. And you can just line up your bags in your closet (EVEN ON THE FLOOR!!!!) and forget them.
:fuckyeahdance:

I'm not trying to dump water on your method I just think the mixing of bulk isn't even a hassle! And the mycelium LOVES(!!!!!!!!!) when you pasteurize their food...you can see the difference in how hard they munch!

I think that too much of the tek'age is over-complicated...BAGS FOREVER!!!

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: BleedThatMule]
    #18512350 - 07/04/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure which part of that wily post to address first.
Can't help but think that you have missed the point here.

Let me start by saying that I am going to go ahead and disregard your bold claim that I'm entirely wrong in the difficulties of growing with straight bulk subs particularly with spores or liquid culture. Your very small range of experience and small sample size defy your out-of-proportion degree of confidence on the matter.

From what I read, it looks to me like you've colonized straight bulk with LC but not had results of which to speak (much less to show), and gotten mediocre-at-best flushes using big bags of heat-treated bulk sub inoc'd with plenty of grain spawn.
Classic.

Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Mycelium will not take to straw, coir, manure, compost, vermiculite etc. without a nutritional core. The nutrients from the grains they started from are used to expand the mycelium over the other lesser-nutritious substrate.
It's called 'bulk' substrate because it's easy to get free/cheap in large amounts, not because it makes bulk mushrooms. You may use it for growing bulk mushrooms, but do not forget the bulk of grain that it requires.



This just isn't correct though :facepalm:



Prove it.

Someday peeps will realize why noobs/trolls are the only people that question that point, and why the many pro growers that have posted in this thread didn't think to address that statement similarly, even the few being critical of me.

I keep waiting for someone to prove me wrong, but it hasn't happened...
Some peeps have been trying, a couple of them specifically on my challenge, as of yet to no avail.
If/when they do succeed fruiting them, the yields will still be less than a smaller amount of grain. This is a known fact that you cannot refute. So the true axiom of my point will stand even then: that's not how strong & reliable results come.


Hm, I assumed you were saying that myc can take to bulk sub and fruit without a nutrition-dense ingredient, so maybe I should ask you what part of my quote "just isn't correct though"?
The part that myc use nutrients from the grain to expand over lesser-nutritious sub?
The part that bulk sub can be used to grow bulk mushrooms but requires bulk grain?

Neither of those are "claims." They're biological facts about what happens when you use those techniques.

Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
I've PERSONALLY knocked up two huge bags of straw with Hoog LC, 1 bag of straw with some cube LC, and 4 bags of coir/shit with LC. I've only successfully fruited 3 of the total bags but each cube (and currently almost the 2 Hoogs) reached 100%. It works!!!



This post is mostly about Cubensis, and additionally any other psilocybe that can fruit on straight-grain.
It was discussed earlier in the thread that I do Not make these statements about species that have specific food requirements, most of which would fall under the "bulk" sub category.

That's a very small sample you took there, especially with that success rate it's not really going strong for your point. No more need be said. Show your LC-to-straight-bulk results.

Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
in my opinion this is even harder than it has to be.



:lolwut:

Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
Myco-bags are ~50 cents a pop, you can sterilize up to ~10 lbs (maybe more?)in them, and they're easy to knock up.



Yeah, and you're gonna throw them away.

They also require MUUUUUCH LOOOOOONGER heat treatment periods and the outside is up to temps way longer than needs be in order to heat-saturate the core. Highly inefficient considering their output especially if you manage to fruit them grainless.

Mycobags are fine when necessary, or if it ends up being ones preferred technique, but they're not necessary or even helpful to acquire a high yield-per-material with Cubensis.
Use those things for species that require 'bulk' subs like Shiitake.

Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
All one must do is put the coir into a bucket, cold water, no pasteurization. Sometimes we'll use cow shit, worm shit etc as a boost but it's not necessary.
1 quart (or 10 if you feel like it!) mixed in with the coir straight in the bucket...then portion into bags, clip off and forget them.



:lol:
If strong and consistent success were so possible/easy that way, you wouldn't see the teks and procedures spread on here that there are.

Your sample size here is too small, and you're talking about inoc'ing with grain...

People don't just want results. That's fine for newbies like yourself. People want Strong and Consistent results, and you'll find your selections in techniques will fall short of efficient and effective standards.


Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
As I said you can sterilize gargantuan amounts of grain but a bulk substrate (especially one that fights mold as well as coir!) can colonize off of a quart or even less if you wanted to wait long enough!



Do you really think this tek involves gargantuan amounts of grain? 200-300mL hydrated per container?
Every grower that throws quart after quart into bulk sub in a tub (yes, or bag) is far more liberal with their grain than I.

It's not just about getting it colonized. It's about having a yield that's worth making & treating the block.


Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
With some proper additions to your coir (and pasteurization! I always pasteurize but it's not NECESSARY) the nutrition will be there...so there should be no reason it wouldn't produce some good yields under good circumstances.



Are you still talking about unsupplemented bulk subs with no-grain inoc? Because if so, see above: Prove it.
Are you talking about spawning colonized grain to bulk subs? If so.... DUH.

.... You said above "no pasteurization", now you're saying you always do it, yet somehow with your tiny sample size you think it's not necessary?

What are you calling "some good yields"?
You cannot Possibly be taking in considerations such as yield-per-material, yield-per-energy, nor yield-per-space.



Quote:

BleedThatMule said:
Essentially maintenance free, on average we got 1 z. dry per flush per bag...with maybe 3/4 of a brick of coir with ~3 qts of spawn in each....not a waste of effort or money.



Oh, THAT's what you're calling "some good yields"??!?!?!  Riiiiiiiight.
1oz per flush? Are you saying your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th flushes each produced 1oz?
I would HOPE your 1st flushes would do more, and entirely doubt that it keeps flushing that strong.
You must be too new to have realized typical flushing curves.

Do you think I've not done bags or bulk subs before?
Here's a post from this very thread where I show even stronger results using bags.  Got 3 dry oz from just a couple flushes with only 1/4 brick of coir and 500mL of 'spawn', 1/4 of the material you said you used, and it's far from the only one like it I've done. Point is that bottom-watered straight grain, done my way, yields the same (sometimes better) per grain.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (07/04/13 04:18 PM)

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OfflineCaps_n_Stems
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18512925 - 07/04/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Caps_n_Stems said:
Say if someone were to have already PC'd 1/2pint jars of rye, and then discovered this awesomely simple tek, acquired the containers and a new monotub and a SAB was made to do it all safely, and wanted to transfer the rye to the containers before g2g with a colonized rye jar.
Would you recommend sterilizing the new containers featured in your tek before transferring?
And if so, how would you do it? PC just the containers for 15 mins @15psi?




Let me get this straight: You've sterilized but not inoc'd some jars of rye and are wanting to transfer the sterile rye to containers then inoc the rye in the containers?

Well, it's possible, and yes you'd sterilize the containers first... but that's very pointless and out-of-the-way, not to mention an extra step towards failure. Just use your jars as you'd planned and prep some new rye for the containers.

It's also possible to break-up colonized grain into such containers, have them recover/consolidate then case & fruit, but it doesn't work at all as well as colonizing grains within the container and consolidating that way.

Just start fresh with the containers!



Oh I do agree with you. But I'm at the bottom of my rye bag :lol:

All I have left laying around for a grain is some enriched white rice. Really don't wanna have to go out and buy more grain when I have 12 jars of prepped and PC'd rye ready to inoc.

Anywho, thank you for your insight.


--------------------
"He who makes a beast of himself alleviates the pain of being a man."

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