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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: bassclef]
    #18379337 - 06/06/13 06:30 PM (11 years, 25 days ago)

Like Violet already said distilled water is not really what you want...  it will serve to leech nutrients and minerals from whatever it is in contact with..

As far as your inoculations, next time you might try taking one that fully colonized and g2g it into multiple containers. (could likely have turned that 1 into 10)  the g2g containers would have then colonized much faster and you wouldn't have to worry about them drying out. 

The couple of twist and lock containers I made for inoculations seem to hold moisture fine. (4 rtv self inoculation ports, and a 7/16 hole in the middle with ez felt filters glued to each side with rtv)  I had left them on the table as a contam test for ~2 weeks before remembering they were there and inoculating...  They not only colonized fine, but outpaced the quart jars that were inoculated with twice the solution. (Not that inoc amount really makes a difference)

Also they have made it through 2 pc cycles and a dish washer cycle with filters still attached so you might try making one or two of them for masters next time your using a syringe, just to try out.  (The rest of my containers remain untouched as per the tek and work great for g2g propagation)

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OfflineHobart Cutter
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: anne halonium]
    #18382539 - 06/07/13 10:47 AM (11 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:

RGS, in large contianers, is actually hard to sterlize IMO.
small containers even spread in a PC, it sterilizes well.




Could be. The bag that was going seem to have stalled. It does not smell though. My grass seeds could be laced with some kind of fertilizer or maybe even fungicide.

The other one that I re-cooked has not taken off yet.

I've put them aside for the time being, they may yet recover.

Meanwhile a rye bag prepared at the same time is rocking 30% colonization.


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OfflineCloudyDrizzle
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Hobart Cutter]
    #18404821 - 06/11/13 06:59 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

What should I look for to constitute grass seed as safe? The stuff I had laying around is tall Fescue and the water run off is blue.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Hobart Cutter]
    #18404918 - 06/11/13 07:19 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

The label would say if it's been treated by any unwanted chemicals.
Weird that your water is blue.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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OfflineCloudyDrizzle
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18405054 - 06/11/13 07:50 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
The label would say if it's been treated by any unwanted chemicals.
Weird that your water is blue.




It is Smart Seed....... I was looking for an ingredient chart instead of reading the captions and info beneath DOH!

has two chems in it and one is to protect against deadly fungus and the other to grow deep, dense roots.

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OfflineMonsieurChampi
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18405068 - 06/11/13 07:54 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

Anyhow, I don't think it's the chem that turns that blue. Because water coming out of RGS is deeeeeep red. But even if you add chem's to RGS, I don't think it would be enough to turn that blue.

As you have alot of blue fescue and even the green fescue has a blue teint, I would think the blue teint of the water is normal.
http://goo.gl/FcbYa

But now that you know that there's chem inside...


--------------------
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OfflineCloudyDrizzle
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: MonsieurChampi]
    #18405134 - 06/11/13 08:05 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

MonsieurChampi said:
Anyhow, I don't think it's the chem that turns that blue. Because water coming out of RGS is deeeeeep red. But even if you add chem's to RGS, I don't think it would be enough to turn that blue.

As you have alot of blue fescue and even the green fescue has a blue teint, I would think the blue teint of the water is normal.
http://goo.gl/FcbYa

But now that you know that there's chem inside...




LOL.... This is lawn grass seed which may be a hybrid of those in the pictures, but looks nothing like what the pictures show.

It is actually a mixture of 5 different kinds of grass seed.

Edited by CloudyDrizzle (06/11/13 08:08 PM)

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OfflineMonsieurChampi
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: CloudyDrizzle]
    #18405162 - 06/11/13 08:10 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

ho! Sorry for my mistake!

To be forgiven, here is some grass seed porn :



--------------------
"it's more like a war that you haven't won yet, where the enemy turns out to be your saviour and you have been fighting yourself all along."
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: MonsieurChampi]
    #18405584 - 06/11/13 09:34 PM (11 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Substrate nutrient densities are very important for the creation of potency level, but are not responsible for it




I see no evidence of this.  Some of the most potent cubensis mushrooms I've ever had grew on plain straw.  Wood decomposing mushrooms are also some of the most potent of all.

Quote:

Yet we know that much of field manure's nitrogen which allows mushrooms to flourish is from Urea, a main part of urine, which so happens to be plant food's nitrogen as well!




Urea is toxic to fungi.  When we use manure we age it to remove the urine before it can turn to ammonia. Plant food won't do squat for mushrooms.  Mushrooms don't 'uptake' as you suspect because they don't have a vascular system like plants. Food is digested at the cellular level.

Using plant food on grains probably won't ruin the batch, but it won't do any good either.  Grains are already nearly too rich in nutrients, and this is the reason they must be sterilized.  Grains are also the reason we consolidate a substrate.  They're so rich that blobs and mutants generally develop if we fail to do so.  Any plant food in the grains would have been long since metabolized by fruiting time. We also know that excess nutrients slows down colonization.
RR


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InvisibleViolet
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Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18407099 - 06/12/13 06:27 AM (11 years, 20 days ago)

I hear what you're saying RR, and it's not very arguable. All that's worth saying is (a) it's indeed the point that it be largely metabolized by fruiting  (b) colonization time is quicker than ever for me; tho the technique certainly hasn't been a cause for sped up colonization, it clearly hasn't slowed it  (c) these cakes do indeed need to be consolidated for some time before optimal fruiting, but I've yet to get a single mutant (from other than PE) on these grain cakes even the ones fruited early, so what you're saying would happen hasn't happened in the hundreds of these cakes I've made.

Not to dismiss your experience; it simply hasn't been the case for me. Nothing but good has come for me of using plant food (precisely as indicated here, otherwise no result), and there certainly has been nothing lost from using it. I've seen only benefit.

Referring to "taking up" those elements is not to suggest mycelium are roots. I know of their digestion; I only meant it as literally taking them from the substrate and using them, not as a technical or biological term


In any case, it's really just a tag on the tek, for consideration - because I do it and I consider it a part of my technique. If readers choose to leave it out then they will; it's listed as optional in ingredients & grain prep pending the desire to experiment with it as I have.
The grow tek itself stands as-is regardless the use of ferts, which is why it's tagged as an aside for those like me who also wish to see :]

Thank you!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18407116 - 06/12/13 06:37 AM (11 years, 20 days ago)

It's important to remember that mycelium is not a plant.  In nature, mycelium breaks down raw organic material, which makes it available to plants.  So-called 'plant food' bypasses this process and gives plants the results directly.  If you put a plant into sterile soil with sterile manure and compost, it would starve to death.  If you put some fungi in that manure/compost, it would then decompose it and make the results available to the plants.

Chemical plant foods are not used by fungi.  For example, fungi has the ability to break down rock phosphate to get the phosphorus.  Plant food provides monosodium phosphate, which is not only useless but actually toxic to fungi.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18407132 - 06/12/13 06:44 AM (11 years, 20 days ago)

We know for sure that, as you said, chemical plant foods are not usable by fungi as-is. This was acknowledged in the thread and you surely saw it; I posted there effectively the same thing you're saying here. This is why I point out that the plant food is likely long-transformed by "composting" bacteria before mycelium get to it, akin to the necessity of composting bone/blood meal into substrates before use if using those things. For instance, you said "urea is toxic to fungi" and yet formerly-urea-saturated manure is obviously not toxic of course.

I've clearly stated to not expect differed results from ferts unless used exactly as such in which case they're likely not present in their original form anyway. Even then, it's possible that no difference could be made, or any differences may not be noticeable, considering the variables of culture and material used. All I know is what I've said: It's made a difference to me.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18407454 - 06/12/13 09:06 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Violet said:

Not to dismiss your experience; it simply hasn't been the case for me. Nothing but good has come for me of using plant food (precisely as indicated here, otherwise no result), and there certainly has been nothing lost from using it. I've seen only benefit.






I can think of a couple things that are lost from using 'ferts' that I definitely am not willing to sacrifice by adding them.

-Time and money is lost by adding plant food, and the environment is being sacrificed by the production of it...

This is the reasoning behind why I said I would never use them to grow mushrooms.

Plants don't even need plant food let alone mushrooms. Composts and compost teas are much better for plants and the environment.

Fertilizers destroy soils and they produce an unnatural agricultural product in doing so....

I'm not trying to knock your tek but if you had a friend like my buddy who lives in Florida and owned a nursery throughout the 80's and you knew the health problems that were caused by the fertilizers they used I bet your opinion about adding chemicals to your grows may be a little different.

He had a child in the late 80's. That child had numerous birth defects and passed away at 2 years old. After that he found out he was sterile and couldn't have kids.

They suspect the issue stemmed from the fertilizers they were using which they later discovered had leaked from a barrel and seeped into their well water.

His brother also lived at the nursery and has a son with sever neurological problems born around the same time.

I doubt this is a coincidence.

:shrug:

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OfflineInTheBiggun
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #18407590 - 06/12/13 09:51 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

Blue LED ... AND chem-ferts disproved in one week.

Wowsers. Epic.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #18407622 - 06/12/13 10:01 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah don't worry about me thinking any of this is adverse reaction to the tek itself, I know it's not. The tek stands as-is regardless of this topic; it's entirely about the ferts and differences of belief in them.


This use of your anecdote seems to attempt drawing simile between allowing bacteria to process ferts in grains before being eaten with mycelium and a human accidentally consuming the ferts directly. It's not proper nor fair to make such a simile especially when fungi are now intentionally used worldwide for detoxifying. I figured this was common knowledge and find it surprising that you have left this common detail out in order to use your anecdote as a reason against the use of fertilizers in the grow.

It doesn't seem sensible to claim that potentially toxifying effects of the ferts on humans (assuredly unknown) means that those toxifying effects would be passed-on via fruit bodies when for the most part we know that fruits grown from chemically-contaminated substrates often are safe to eat (depending on the fungi and chemical contaminant).
Simply enough, I don't buy it as you're selling it, and would ask for evidence of: its supposed harm, that the harm is still possible after bacterial processing, then after mycelial processing, and then into fruit body migration as well.


As far as "time and money being lost", I must say, that's laugable. About 5 seconds a week might be "lost" and a bottle of ferts that will last over a year is only a few dollars.

You say that fertilizers harm soil. Well, I'm not adding it to soil, am I? It's an entirely moot point to bring up here.
You also say it's harmful for the environment for its materials to be processed into fert form. I have very little knowledge of this, so I looked it up, and found only the high energy expense of processing ammonia. This may be true, but perhaps it doesn't have to be, so you can't blame the material for the inefficiencies of its process. All that tells me is that a new way to handle it is required.



I highly doubt this thing can be considered "disproven", far from it in fact, so the pretense is quite hilarious.
Especially the blue lights thing. I see no evidence whatsoever of it being "disproven", and this thread is not at all about that.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (06/12/13 10:13 AM)

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: MonsieurChampi]
    #18407641 - 06/12/13 10:06 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

MonsieurChampi said:
To be forgiven, here is some grass seed porn :




:lol: Only on the shroomery!


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Quick WBS Prep

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: FooMan]
    #18407656 - 06/12/13 10:11 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

Noteworthy that it's the only grain I like to look at! :heart::heart::heart: :eek:


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineInTheBiggun
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: FooMan]
    #18407684 - 06/12/13 10:19 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

"Disproven"

- Yah, that's the word

dis·prove   (ds-prv)
tr.v. dis·proved, dis·prov·ing, dis·proves

To prove to be false, invalid, or in error; refute.

*[Middle English DISPROVEN, from Old French.]

I think its apt...

RGS is still very cool, and bottom-watering is awesome, heck I've been doing that for years and even mentioned it to Anne in one of his hydro-shroom threads a couple years ago by name, perhaps you saw that. Bottom-watering is definitly good in my books.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #18407752 - 06/12/13 10:35 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

It's not the definition of "disproven" that's in question. It's the appropriate application of the term.
You want it to be disproven so badly, you have so much emotional investment in it as is seen now on these forums, that you're willing to make a hilarious pretense to "proof" where there is none.
Note that these grow pros don't make such a bold, wide, infactual statement.

It's not disproven, simple fact. Two reputable growers who insist that they won't ever use it said a few things triangulating the topic. Nothing to the effect of "disproof" has been shared here. You can call words on a forum "proof" all day, but the grows going on less than twenty feet from me are a living and true proof to the contrary.

I'm glad you like bottom-watering, that's nice.
Dismissed.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (06/12/13 10:41 AM)

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OfflineHobart Cutter
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons [Re: InTheBiggun]
    #18407813 - 06/12/13 10:50 AM (11 years, 19 days ago)

I think dis/proof would have to be in the form of parallel grows with isolates.

The claim hinges on whether bacterial activity makes the nutes available to mycelium.

It seems, it is widely accepted that spent coffee grounds can increase the yield and potency of truffles, despite them being grown on very rich substrates.

Looking at the contents of the liquid NPK stuff I give to my ficus, it seems similar to what can be found in coffee.

So, whats to say that a bacteria can not serve the same function as a mangled coffee bean. We don't really know what that function is after all. Do we?

Also, one has to remember that when you are watering or dunking in between flushes, you are extending the water capacity of the substrate. This might create room for extending the nute side of the equation. In classic teks this would have been pointless since you always ran out of water first.

Basically, the rules may have changed.


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