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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: FooMan]
    #18187894 - 04/29/13 05:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mosey3012 said:
until I'm able to get my hands on some would using 1/2 pint wide mouth jars like one would when doing the BRF Tek be just as sufficient provided the 90 min sterilization time instead? Or perhaps u'd recommend a different size? I only ask as I'd like to use what I've got around for now ya dig?



I'm not sure you'd have much fun using jars this way, although those would be the only ones for the job otherwise.
Try it and see. I'm certainly no end-all-authority of how this tek could be fudged around. It's just that any such fudges don't seem to help but rather draw away form most of its premises.


There's absolutely no problem with going from one grain to the next, unless for some reason your culture is too picky towards one to climb off onto the other, unlikely.



Quote:

FooMan said:
I'm starting to think you're simply trolling Violet here.



This has been suspect for a long time, and across several threads
Figure I made myself a target for him awhile back.
But I don't care. It's over now.


Sansa we know you don't agree. Some of the things you have stated are indeed fact but are simply not contradictory to our actual statements which you consistently fudge; the rest of the claims you've made that you say support we are wrong and you are right have not been shown as blanket truths ever much less for cultivation conditions.
The burden of proof for those obscure claims is now on YOU to be displayed in its own thread, never to be mentioned in THIS one again; regardless of the conclusion it's irrelevant here nonetheless. Seriously, don't even post back, go away for good as you said you were, like a good and honest doggie.

THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER
and now considered fully off-topic to the intents of the thread.  It's drawn enough hits and post count as-is; thanks for that by the way!
My request to moderators is that trolling this beating-dead-horse topic result in ban at least from this thread.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Offlinethe_jerk
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18187965 - 04/29/13 05:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cross-posting here from the original thread:


After an 8hr soak and a 16hr drain I found them to still be a bit moist but proceeded to PC anyways. They did soak up quite a bit more moisture. Innoc'd on 4/20 with 3 tiny agar wedges per tub. Shook vigorously.

Now 9 days later all 10 of my tubs are at 90+ % colonization. Super-rhizo growth too! To compare, this same strain/isolate on Rye Berries took me 3-4 weeks.

I'm going to do more experimenting with drain and soak times but this tek is a hit with me so far. I'm curious to see how well they fruit.

Colonizing and fruiting from the same container is going to be a big time and space saver :wink:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: the_jerk]
    #18188144 - 04/29/13 06:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't let them drain nearly so long and they still soak up the moisture. So long as they weren't fully-hydrated by a boil, that prep teks works right-off!
Sometimes I have problem with dry grains if I let them strain so long! As-written, the prep hits the nail right on the head


Shook vigorously!
That's the spirit. Agar spreads everywhere on seed that way!
Quick colonizing, yeah!

I bet the flush capacity will surprise you.
With a culture that flushes big each time, it will REALLY surprise you!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18188225 - 04/29/13 06:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
I don't let them drain nearly so long and they still soak up the moisture. So long as they weren't fully-hydrated by a boil, that prep teks works right-off!
Sometimes I have problem with dry grains if I let them strain so long! As-written, the prep hits the nail right on the head


Shook vigorously!
That's the spirit. Agar spreads everywhere on seed that way!
Quick colonizing, yeah!

I bet the flush capacity will surprise you.
With a culture that flushes big each time, it will REALLY surprise you!




To be honest, they soaked up 'quite a bit more' moisture but the inside walls of the containers still showed moisture droplets. It was almost as if the container had ~100% RH. The environment seemed a tad wet still.

My thought is that when straining, i should spread them out further across a larger strainer (or more strainers) so the core of the pile of grass seed doesn't stay quite so wet.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: the_jerk]
    #18188941 - 04/29/13 08:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If you'll note the tek I don't strain at all, just drain off.
I wonder if you boiled, or prepped as per the outline?

There's almost always gonna be some moisture droplets on the inside, I see tons of it right after PC. The inoc-and-shake spreads and soaks it up, although during/after colonizing droplets may show up again. It's certainly not a problem, shows that they've got the moisture for a hefty first flush.

BTW the inside of enclosed colonizing spaces is always 100%RH pretty much


Your thought about the 'core' of the pile staying wet is pretty valid, when I prepped differently and with strainers I definitely noticed that the bottom 1/4 seed in the strainer stayed a bit on the wet side and required much longer strain
But as outlined in the thread it's not been beneficial to strain for any great length.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18189354 - 04/29/13 09:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Heya, I have a question about bottom watering.  If I set up a constant, slow moving stream of water below the cake and let the bottom sit in it, would it still fruit like normal on the top? 
Would the constant water contact inhibit fruiting?


Also, hi!  First post on the forum.

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18189369 - 04/29/13 09:44 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
If you'll note the tek I don't strain at all, just drain off.
I wonder if you boiled, or prepped as per the outline?




In the Tek you even show them piled in a strainer...

Quote:

There's almost always gonna be some moisture droplets on the inside, I see tons of it right after PC. The inoc-and-shake spreads and soaks it up, although during/after colonizing droplets may show up again. It's certainly not a problem, shows that they've got the moisture for a hefty first flush



This exactly how i noticed the moisture to appear (after pc, after shake its soaked up, after colinization its back)

Quote:


BTW the inside of enclosed colonizing spaces is always 100%RH pretty much



Yes, slightly less so when there's a GE hole & filter. Describing the moisture on the plastic as being the amount you would see on a container with 100% RH...was the most accurate way I could think of to describe the level of condensation it had.
Quote:



Your thought about the 'core' of the pile staying wet is pretty valid, when I prepped differently and with strainers I definitely noticed that the bottom 1/4 seed in the strainer stayed a bit on the wet side and required much longer strain
But as outlined in the thread it's not been beneficial to strain for any great length.



I would think that straining gets them drier than simply draining the water off. If I'm already in the zone moisture wise, is draining alone going to be enough? Would you drain for the same length of time that I'm straining?


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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: the_jerk]
    #18189879 - 04/29/13 11:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

peroporquemaria said:
Heya, I have a question about bottom watering.  If I set up a constant, slow moving stream of water below the cake and let the bottom sit in it, would it still fruit like normal on the top? 
Would the constant water contact inhibit fruiting?

Also, hi!  First post on the forum.



Hi! Well that's an honor!

There's no need for such constant water, but ya it should work, my friend has put them on ebb-and-flow tables.
Gotta keep some decent level of humidity on the fruiting area up top tho for pin formation so most setups for this get too complex. There's no need for the moving water, adding a tad every few days in a cinch, usually less than 10mL every few days so I just go thru with a few rounds of a 60cc syringe every 2-3 days. It's just as easy as automation really and way cheaper/simpler.

Quote:

the_jerk said:
Quote:

Violet said:
Your thought about the 'core' of the pile staying wet is pretty valid, when I prepped differently and with strainers I definitely noticed that the bottom 1/4 seed in the strainer stayed a bit on the wet side and required much longer strain
But as outlined in the thread it's not been beneficial to strain for any great length.



I would think that straining gets them drier than simply draining the water off. If I'm already in the zone moisture wise, is draining alone going to be enough? Would you drain for the same length of time that I'm straining?



If you're prepping them this way then you don't need long strains.
In fact it ended up in too-dry seed that easily stalled-out in colonizing since they're so small individually.
I don't drain them nearly as long as you're straining, you'll see why below

Quote:

the_jerk said:
Quote:

Violet said:
If you'll note the tek I don't strain at all, just drain off.
I wonder if you boiled, or prepped as per the outline?



In the Tek you even show them piled in a strainer…



As an option, but it's right after showing what I do usually.
Quote:

Violet said:

I usually scoop the grains to one side and prop the tote up on that side, for easy drainage, and loading some time later….


or ya can pop them in a strainer.

There is going to be excess water on the grains when strained off regardless of prep selection. This is actually necessary and important for this preparation.
If you're familiar with other RGS preps, such as the no-prep where you add water to seed in a jar and PC, then you know well the 50% volume of moisture capacity these seeds have when hydrated perfectly. We used that same proportion of water, but it's not all in the seeds yet!

This is what makes this grain approach so easy, and makes preparing grass seed perfect every time. The right initial moisture is used, and what's not absorbed by the grains is retained on their surface (except what little excess can be strained off) meaning that the perfect capacity of moisture is present amongst the seed when loaded for sterilization. When they get thrown in the cooker the seeds finish expanding and the water remaining on their surfaces is perfect to finish hydration & stop any burning/drying.






Quote:

the_jerk said:
Quote:

Violet said:
There's almost always gonna be some moisture droplets on the inside, I see tons of it right after PC. The inoc-and-shake spreads and soaks it up, although during/after colonizing droplets may show up again. It's certainly not a problem, shows that they've got the moisture for a hefty first flush



This exactly how i noticed the moisture to appear (after pc, after shake its soaked up, after colinization its back)



You're good then :super: sounds about perfect


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Edited by Violet (04/29/13 11:15 PM)

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18190692 - 04/30/13 04:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
My request to moderators is that trolling this beating-dead-horse topic result in ban at least from this thread.




No need for a request. sansa is taking a break for a few days. I don't mind the debating, but calling people lazy, telling them they don't comprehend English and being an asshat in general isn't going to fly. If anyone wants to debate anything, stick to your argument and skip the insults.


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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: FooMan]
    #18190761 - 04/30/13 05:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the reply Violet. Sometimes your advice seems confusing or contradicting to me. Perhaps something is getting lost in translation.

In your last thread you stated
Quote:

...I pour the boiling water on them late at night and start them straining the next day. The day after that I load them up for cooking.



That's a whole day of straining for an ~8hr soak.
This is after saying that the longer I soak the longer I strain and that soak:strain is not a 1:1 ratio.  Regardless, judging by the moisture/condensation amounts I'm on the right track. Maybe this tek is forgiving on the initial moisture amount.

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: the_jerk]
    #18191080 - 04/30/13 08:26 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Oh ya sorry about that one. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll fix it up even tho I've pretty much abandoned that thread for this larger more inclusive one.
It needs to say I pour the boiling water on them at night and drain them the next day to load, the day after that I cook them in PC. Close but not quite right there.
The instructions there, long length in strainer etc., are actually dead-on for an old fashioned simmer/boil prep but that's not what I'm meaning to post about.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18191136 - 04/30/13 08:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

How long do you keep the tub propped up to run the excess water off then? I'm not sure I can see a figure on that.

My last attempt I threw them in a strainer for 6 hours, they seemed a little wet but a few days post pc they look pretty good!

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: GoldenArrow]
    #18191327 - 04/30/13 09:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You don't see a figure on that because I don't have one.
Sometimes I let it sit for fifteen minutes or so, sometimes up to an hour if I stirred the settled water back onto the grains first which I do recommend.
When you're in that spectra of procedure, you've gotten to the point that such a little time difference makes nearly no product difference.
Just make sure that it's had time for all the slack water to drain off. Not nearly so long for water naturally held by surface tension amongst the grains to dry away.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18201520 - 05/02/13 10:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Added some to the OPs



My greenhouse is pin city, peeps. Eye candy to come.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18201610 - 05/02/13 10:40 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Violet,

Dumb question but must it be ryegrass seed? Seems to be pretty pricey (and hard to find) around here. I can find it in mixes (30% RGS) at reasonable cost.

Have you tested RGS versus other grass seeds?

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: the_jerk]
    #18201674 - 05/02/13 10:52 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No offense, but please read the thread… most questions are answered in the OPs or subsequent posts
Quote:

Violet said:
With this approach to cultivating, all you need are a pressure cooker, sterilizable containers, grass seed (any small-medium grain will do), water, an inoculation workspace (still-air box/glovebox/sterile laminar airflow cabinet), and any fruiting chamber. Plant food is optional based on your choice to experiment.



Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

MaJiK_420 said:
Does it have to be RYE Grass seed?
Is lawn grass or any other grass suitable, or does Rye Grass Seed have any notable advantages to your knowledge?



Nope! That's why I just say "grass seed". As said earlier in the thread, maybe only God knows why they call it "rye" grass, I sure don't and any similar/identical grass seed works fine.
That lawn seed will be mostly rye grass, with the other ones being identical as seed anyway.

As said earlier as well, any medium/small grain will work for this tek. Rye, wbs, wheat, maybe even oats and more if done right.

'Rye' grass wouldn't have any advantage over its cousin grasses.
However it has real advantages over other grains as master inoculant, and I feel it does as straight-sub too.



Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Zarotti said:
grass seed is so expenisve in my country
Its like 4 times the price of rye and oats



Whew! At that kind of expense I wouldn't be getting grass seed, definitely rye or oats as you said.

Peeps, most of the advantages of this technique still apply as well or almost as well with any other grain, the smaller the better.
The tek definitely works with rye; I've done it on many occasions, all my first ones were.
Even birdseed would do great.

This method is a most-effective use of any grain. The same amount of any grain will produce more with this approach, without any additional "bulk" substrate.
I simply love this grow tech in combination with the advantages of grass seed as well, and even feel that grass seed is the ideal mushroom substrate for reasons mentioned in the post.



Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

BloodKil said:
What kind of prices are you paying for ryegrass seed?



Around here I get it ~65c/lb, or $34 for 50lb, from feed stores. That's the cheapest I've found it here, most other places like corporate hardware/garden stores are a bit more but offer decent prices.
I do not know any specifics about any company's product or whether they're safe for this or not. Read labels, everyone




--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18205357 - 05/02/13 09:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well since the last post was about grass see in particular, I will start by aying I just bought a bag at the convenience store as I was walking by. Plan on buying a 40 lb bag at the feed store later this week, much better price, about 40-50 bucks for a 40lb bag, compared to the 3 lb bag I just picked up for 8 bucks. Not bad to get started though. Brand is WONDERLAWN - Quick Lawn seed mix - 91.11% Barverdi Annual Rye Grass, 5.59% Alto Perennial Rye Grass and other crap in the rest. The big bag I am gonna buy has kentucky bluegrass and some arctic fescue and maybe a couple other varieties.

I just got all my plastic containers today, and just soaked the grass seed in boiling water. I used about half the amount of water as seed, but there appears to not be any standing water, it was all absorbed... guess we'll see how it goes any way, trial run ya know. Doing 8 of the small containers. Used about 1600 mls of grass seed and about 800 mls h20.

Its about cool and ready to be loaded, but I am still nervous about putting plastic in the PC. They will be fine sitting on the metal rack that came with the PC? And I think I read to keep it just below 15PSI and for like half the time? 45 minutes or something...?
I will go back and look through your post again, just kinda going through it to make sure I get it right. Would rather not melt this batch haha. And lids cracked. Well I'll load up and see if I gt a reply, if not, GO TIME.

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18205493 - 05/02/13 10:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

similar but different;

this is 1 cup of rye (dry).


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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18205667 - 05/02/13 10:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MaJiK_420 said:
Well since the last post was about grass see in particular, I will start by aying I just bought a bag at the convenience store as I was walking by. Plan on buying a 40 lb bag at the feed store later this week, much better price, about 40-50 bucks for a 40lb bag, compared to the 3 lb bag I just picked up for 8 bucks. Not bad to get started though. Brand is WONDERLAWN.




12 dollars more and you could have gotten 25lbs delivered to your door from amazon.  If your somehow worried about getting supplies online (if you are growing psilo species where illegal) I wouldn't worry too much about just grass seed as I'm sure tons of people will be ordering some now that its spring.  Heck I even sprinkled a couple handfuls of what I got in my back yard where I had left my kids jeep under a tarp over winter.

As far as the plastic in the PC, I bought a 6 pack of the zip locks and ran 2 of them through the PC per the times listed above without issue (also got off amazon for 4.88 shipped if your looking for cheapies).

The only difference is I made my caps for those two with inoc ports and filters, and left the lid screwed on tight.  Really I just wanted to see how they held up, and they suffered no melting, and as said I was able to pull my rattler weight, and remove from PC mere minutes after the 30 min sterilization.  Those two containers are sitting on my stove filled with rugs and uninnoculated as of now though.  More interested in letting them sit out to see how well ez-felt will protect from airborne contains.  (Or how long they can last)

I made a few blue oyster masters with rgs and they are taking off quite a bit quicker than the wbs spawns I had made a couple days before them.  They are currently about even so I expect them to surpass in the next day or so.

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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18205922 - 05/02/13 11:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MaJiK_420 said:
Its about cool and ready to be loaded, but I am still nervous about putting plastic in the PC. They will be fine sitting on the metal rack that came with the PC? And I think I read to keep it just below 15PSI and for like half the time? 45 minutes or something...?



You'll be good!
The rack should do fine.
Sterilize at normal pressure. Yeah 45 minutes is a safe bet as long as you're PCing properly at full pressure! All mine are 40-45 since I have 8 in a mid-size cooker.


As for your hydration concern - you're probably okay there too.
It's why the tek's grain prep says to throw in a few extra oz of water, so a tad over half the seed's volume in water.
It's not all 'absorbed' quite yet, but on the grains not just in them. Since you have no standing water in the bottom after using precisely 1/2 water they should just be stirred and loaded.


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