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OfflineMosey3012
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: wcfcarolina13]
    #18166103 - 04/25/13 12:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Bookmarked! Super sweet write up. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, especially all while using logic and providing astounding evidence. I've been playing with WBS for a while and its recently run out so I'm debating if I should just grab some grass seed and see how that works out.

Would you suggest using grass seed as spawn for the appropriate dung/straw  mixture for the use in growing P Cyan? Seems like from what you've presented today that there should be no issue with this... I'm new to all this though so I figured I'd ask :smile:

Mosey


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"Each of these lives is the right one! Every path is the right path. Everything could have been anything else and it would have just as much meaning"



"All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost"


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OfflineDr.Mind_BendEr
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Mosey3012]
    #18166256 - 04/25/13 12:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

BookMarked ! :thumbup:


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OfflineBlake_Shroom
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Dr.Mind_BendEr]
    #18166294 - 04/25/13 01:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



This tray was spawned about 3-5 days ago. 90% of the sub is colonized, minus the top that has a layer of coir/verm on it to cover exposed grains. When it fully colonizes, I'll know for sure that all of the inside of the sub colonized. This is 1 qrt of PE6 (a few transfers away from MS, not an iso) to 3-4 qrts of coir verm. The speed is incredible.



This is one of my 2 pan cyan spawn bags. It had half a pint spawned to the bag (4 qrts RGS) on 4/20. Its been 5 days and the growth is so strong. I'm guessing another 2 days, then a shake/massage, and 3-4 more days till full colonization! Love it. My ATL#7 bags look similar to this.

Just posting to show how fast it is if you spawn to bulk

:peace:

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Offlinesmurf_master
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Mosey3012]
    #18166295 - 04/25/13 01:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

@Violet Do you use gypsum? And would the best time to add it be before the seed prep?



Edit: and what size are those twist and locks you use, I've found one pint and one quart sizes but neither of them looks the same dimensions as the ones you use

Edited by smurf_master (04/25/13 03:06 PM)

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Grass Seed & Plastic, Myco Match from Heaven. How I grow mushi & the million reasons why. +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18166699 - 04/25/13 02:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Violet,

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere, but what formula have you used for the bulk sub to which you're doing the comparison of the grass seed?  I've never had the feeling that going to my bulk formula produced the same yields as fruiting off cased grain, and since I used cased grain exclusively for many years back in the day, and again more recently, I find a pretty much 1:1 correspondence - prepped properly I get about 100% bioyield off of either and I've not seen reason to favor one or the other overly much.

But then I prepare the bulk in smaller tubs that sit out in a stack to consolidate before being cycled through my FC (see pics for excessive context :lol:), which controls the temp, humidity, lights, and airflow.  Just trying to pin down some variables here as I consider the grass seed approach. :thumbup:

 

:peace:PS

PS love the tek writeup BTW :thumbup:


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: smurf_master]
    #18168509 - 04/25/13 07:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Hi Violet,
Forgive me if I missed it somewhere, but what formula have you used for the bulk sub to which you're doing the comparison of the grass seed?



Hey again PS!
You didn't miss it, didn't post about it, no need.
I've used coir, field manure, stable manure, verm…
The photos you see of fruiting bags for this thread are all on straight coir with seed "spawn", or coir supplemented with grass seed and coffee.
Since I've stopped collecting bulk substrates I just got a brick of coir for the sake of posting grows from it for comparison in this thread, and showing that I do indeed have plenty of nice and regular success with bulk be they bags trays or tubs. In fact it's all I used to do. I switched because this way is genuinely better for me.



Quote:

smurf_master said:
@Violet Do you use gypsum? And would the best time to add it be before the seed prep?



I do not use gypsum.

That would be the time to use it tho, yes.
If you have it already I do encourage its use. I say "why not" since I've seen no real advantage. It appears to be something that may only be benefited from depending on strain or in otherwise deficient substrates. Other than that, it's just a preventative from grain clumping, which I have no problems with due to my grain preparation tech.

Quote:

smurf_master said:
what size are those twist and locks you use, I've found one pint and one quart sizes but neither of them looks the same dimensions as the ones you use



They are indeed pints. There are only those two sizes by ziploc - I use the quart ones for sterile invitro fruiting for spores and for quickly expanding cultures to many small containers.


Quote:

Mosey3012 said:
Would you suggest using grass seed as spawn for the appropriate dung/straw mixture


NO! Lol!
Quote:

for the use in growing P Cyan?


Ooohhh okay, hahah, it's a species that requires manure. Had to make the joke.
Yeah absolutely! Panaeolus loves grass seed. It's one of the several reasons for my suppositions about grass seed as food of preference… it seems that grass seed is the grain that they're able to possibly grow from even without manure as long as a non-sterililized casing is used.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18168578 - 04/25/13 08:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Since I've stopped collecting bulk substrates I just got a brick of coir for the sake of posting grows from it for comparison in this thread, and showing that I do indeed have plenty of nice and regular success with bulk be they bags trays or tubs. In fact it's all I used to do. I switched because this way is genuinely better for me.




Uhm, yeah...well I've never fruited on straight coir even ammended with coffee - always a mix of coir, verm, gypsum and coffee.  Perhaps it's a better bioefficiency of the grass seed that you're seeing, then - which would explain it.  And as I said before there hasn't been a good prep method for grass seed alone. :thumbup:

I will continue in my antediluvian ways until I run out of grain and coir and then experiment with seed. :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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OfflineSagescruffy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18169025 - 04/25/13 09:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You should summarize some of the sections, like the section about potency. Most people aren't proficient enough in biology or chemistry to understand the words used lol


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Love.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18169694 - 04/25/13 11:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
I'm here sharing info, not for catering to lazy or picky (or illiterate) people.



I don't want to seem offish, but if they're not able or willing to understand, then they're not at a point where it is relevant to them anyway.

Hopefully anyone who is truly interested is capable of grasping it. If that turns out to not be the case, I'll consider it. Thank you


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinefirst time expert
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18169752 - 04/25/13 11:51 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

no I think your trying to teach others like my self how to grow shrooms and have good experience with new and different ways. I just started growing so I have no 100's of cakes to see "what happened" so this is where I look to you to explain how your system works. I then challenge and question your methods. just try not to come off like you know everything and your way is the best, this might help me better understand y you do the things you do?? just food for thought


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: first time expert]
    #18169789 - 04/26/13 12:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

first time expert said:
I just started growing so I have no 100's of cakes to see "what happened" so this is where I look to you to explain how your system works. I then challenge and question your methods. just try not to come off like you know everything and your way is the best, this might help me better understand y you do the things you do?? just food for thought



It's not that I'm saying "my way is the best, and your way sucks." I'm saying here's a technique that I find to be more effective per my goals than others.
My goals were more success, greater yield, greater ease, greater potency, less expense, less danger, fewer materials, and altogether cutting out the fat of superfluous procedure. What's "best" if not that?
Any grow that booms is great, although I do wish my fellow earthlings would be more efficient with their lives!

I'm certainly not meaning to come-off superioristic. I know what I know.
Just because I'm not flimsy about what knowing I have doesn't mean I pretend to have all knowing; there's a big difference, I hope peeps acknowledge such


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinefirst time expert
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18169847 - 04/26/13 12:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yea I do know the difference. And Im going to get some grass seed and try that also because I have found ....alright just hear me....by "others" doing grass seed this is a good way to achieve the goals you listed. Do you see I have not said one thing about grass seed, I have never used it, but I am interested in using it and hope I get stellar results!!.

I like to challenge my teachers. Maybe why thats why we clash so much. Im not one of guys who reads this one thing and says ok thats how Im going to do it. I like to read a bunch of ways and put it all together to make the best out of their work, This is probably one of the main reasons I have won the big bud contest at my local fest. for the past 3 yrs. next to veteran growers 30+ yrs older than me. Just to say I get some dirty looks. haha

But thank you for posting your teks and taking the time to spread knowledge.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: first time expert]
    #18169876 - 04/26/13 12:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Bringing your post from the other thread into here:
Quote:

first time expert said:
more about how the myc uses this extra fert for the better when is has been said by more than 1 tc that it does not help. If I read some ones post that says this is not so.... then another post oh it does



I understand the apparent informational conflict.
Knowing what the conceptual barrier was will clear up the confusion.


Quote:

Violet time expert said:
The current mycological understanding is that mycelium cannot take-up elemental nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorous like plants do via roots, since mycelium use enzymes to metabolize compounds more akin to humans. This alone would lead to the conclusion that plant food is not a usable material for cultivation of Psilocybes. (The conclusions of said TCs)
Yet we know that much of field manure's nitrogen which allows mushrooms to flourish is from Urea, a main part of urine, which so happens to be plant food's nitrogen etc. as well!

So what's the missing bridge between the two?
Bacteria!



Quote:

a chem nerd friend via PM said:
Phosphate probably is the limiting reagent though, since phosphate equilibrium is crucial to maintaining the intermediates cells use for energy. "Where we put our phosphates" matters, and putting them in the form of psilocybin and transporting them out of the cell takes phosphates out of this energy equilibrium and, if too much psilocybin gets made, the equilibrium slows down everything in the metabolism.



So, just continuing to parrot where peeps once said "ferts are useless for myco" ignores that a certain procedure which mimics nature was conceptualized and shared after those quotes were spoken.

Technically those statements and others like them are correct when the use of these pre-fermentation techniques are not discussed. Without them, plant food is almost if not totally useless.
However the ability to "ferment-in" those ferts into usable forms changes the premise for those old statements, as now such techniques ought to be discussed...


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinefirst time expert
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18169989 - 04/26/13 01:08 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Before I ever started A grow of myc, I thought of it as mushrooms growing because of the high content of npk, jst like plants trees and just about everything else that grows on the surface of earth. I soon started to see that it works in different ways also. Shrooms growing on wood which have tons of micro nutes but not much npk value to it at all. Then I thought of it as fertilizing would help my shrooms. I tried this outside with no increase at all of anything, like you said happened to you. I guess after failure and through the words of others I deemed this to be untrue. I am going to prove it to my self, which I thought I have already done, and see if I can get more potent shrooms with added ferts, organic of course. and after all I have learned in this short period of my life try to better my grow. am I sceptically??? yes, do I think It will work at first no. I belive it will have to be fine tuned with different type of ferts at different levels and at different concentration's. Im glad to see you would not recommend micrle grow but why not a manure tea or some thing a little more natural? I am a synthetic natize, I refuse to use them except on my house plants, not some thing that will be consumed be people like my friends and family


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: first time expert]
    #18170085 - 04/26/13 01:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

first time expert said:
I am a synthetic natize, I refuse to use them except on my house plants, not some thing that will be consumed be people like my friends and family


If you're truly concerned with the safety of your friends and family, like me, quit using manure… don't shy away from totally food-safe ingredients instead.
Quote:

Violet said:
Frankly, without a metals scan, pesticides scan, antibiotics scan, hormones scan, & parasite scan, you cannot convince me that your field manure or compost is totally food-safe.
You might say "Oh come on now, I do it all the time, nobody dies or gets hurt". Cigarette-smoker's logic. Don't give me that.
I know in most cases everything turns out fine. I also know that any problems are unlikely to ever be discovered as such. For some this may be a reason to do it anyway, but for me it's a reason to not do it. With grass seed I can read the label to determine if it's safe to use or not.
If you want to use it anyway, your choice, but I hope you can see the obvious logic of this selection. That's one of the few things not up for discussion with me as it'd go nowhere.



For that matter, ferts often/usually aren't 'synthetic' per se, moreso extracts of common sources like urine.



Quote:

first time expert said:
I am going to prove it to my self, which I thought I have already done, and see if I can get more potent shrooms with added ferts, organic of course.


Organic? Like you mention here?:
Quote:

first time expert said:
Im glad to see you would not recommend micrle grow but why not a manure tea or some thing a little more natural?


Because it wouldn't work any differently than hydrating substrates with grainwater. A cool little punch perhaps, but not the intended effect as here.

Quote:

first time expert said:
am I sceptically??? yes, do I think It will work at first no. I belive it will have to be fine tuned with different type of ferts at different levels and at different concentration's.



Eh, results will vary with varying fert use, but the function and effect does not change, only the degree.
You may be missing the true key of the method. Bacterial pre-'ferment', don't forget that process, or you've not done the experiment as propositioned


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinefirst time expert
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18170139 - 04/26/13 01:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

thus me saying use a manure tea, that is laden with all kinds of bacterial that is or has been in the pre-ferment stage. And I know natural manure will make a natural product with certain minerals in the product, but I know for fact ferts like gen hydro are horrible because of the left over by products remaining in the product once harvested. And I have dumped ferts on my outdoor grows with no effect except more grass to shade the soil and create more pins. just my inexperienced experiment did not work.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: first time expert]
    #18170147 - 04/26/13 01:42 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

first time expert said:
thus me saying use a manure tea, that is laden with all kinds of bacterial that is or has been in the pre-ferment stage.



It simply isn't the same.
Surely you would see some benefit if the other variables could be sufficiently stabilized enough for any difference to become evident… but thing is, it would take all that for a difference to be evident.
With fert ferment done properly in grain substrates the difference is clear. Don't have to nit-pick to see it. The effect is also controlled and consistent.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinefirst time expert
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18170177 - 04/26/13 01:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

not pickn tryn to make sense of it


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: first time expert] * 1
    #18170352 - 04/26/13 03:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

are we going to be seeing a new TC soon :thumbup:


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PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: BloodKil]
    #18170659 - 04/26/13 07:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BloodKil said:
Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:No need to be a dick in response to a little constructive criticism.

I'm certainly not going to be changing my browsing theme, which I've been using since 2004, in order to read a post on rye grass seed preparation when there's already a perfectly fine preparation method from RR.

:sun:




Violets post is well readable by myself and many others.  Your the one who has the issue and the one bitching about it.  If you can't be bothered to change your shit screen format then please don't clutter up the thread that the rest of us are enjoying.





I actually agree with NewfoundFreedom. I have yet to read through any of Violet's teks due to the color of the text. It's not bitching, just constructive criticism. The color changes are an eye sore and just seem gimicky IMO, but hey, if the OP doesn't mind deterring some people from reading their threads it's not a problem for those people to just move on to the next thread. :shrug: No big deal either way.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep

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