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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore


Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18160370 - 04/24/13 10:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The majority of your posts are unreadable due to your font color :shrug:

/desert theme for life.

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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #18160394 - 04/24/13 10:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever.
If you have trouble reading it's likely due to your selection in Shroomery skins.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore


Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #18160487 - 04/24/13 11:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Whatever.
If you have trouble reading it's likely due to your selection in Shroomery skins.



Quote:



NewfoundFreedom said:
The majority of your posts are unreadable due to your font color :shrug:

/desert theme for life.



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InvisibleViolet
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Posts: 4,205
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: NewfoundFreedom] * 2
    #18160511 - 04/24/13 11:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That color is clear as daylight in default skin and many others.
For that matter, "the majority" of my posts are in default color.
It's just OPs of this one that are all shaded.
If ya wanna read it, you'll read it. I'm here sharing info, not for catering to lazy or picky people. Off with you.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisibleshroom-a-zoom
Stranger in a strange land


Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 414
Loc: Fungiland Flag
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18160696 - 04/24/13 11:54 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have no problem reading the post due to font color or any other reason.
Nice Post :thumbup:


--------------------
How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE

:imo:Lets get rid of the SWIM shit, This also goes for my dog, someones pet ferret, and any other way of saying you are not really you.
Its bullshit and we all know it. Man up and admit you are the SWIM.:2cents:

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OfflineCoreyRubble
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18160707 - 04/24/13 11:56 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
That color is clear as daylight in default skin and many others.
For that matter, "the majority" of my posts are in default color.
It's just OPs of this one that are all shaded.
If ya wanna read it, you'll read it. I'm here sharing info, not for catering to lazy or picky people. Off with you.



:whathesaid:

GET EM!! I can't really read the purple either... I just changed my colors. WHOOPS FIXED IT!

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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore


Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet] * 1
    #18160885 - 04/24/13 12:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
That color is clear as daylight in default skin and many others.
For that matter, "the majority" of my posts are in default color.
It's just OPs of this one that are all shaded.
If ya wanna read it, you'll read it. I'm here sharing info, not for catering to lazy or picky people. Off with you.




No need to be a dick in response to a little constructive criticism.

I'm certainly not going to be changing my browsing theme, which I've been using since 2004, in order to read a post on rye grass seed preparation when there's already a perfectly fine preparation method from RR.

:sun:

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InvisibleViolet
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Posts: 4,205
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: NewfoundFreedom] * 1
    #18161003 - 04/24/13 01:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No-prep sucks for seed.
This post is only minority about grass seed prep. Of course, you wouldn't know, as stated you're posting in a thread you haven't read.

That's not constructive criticism.
Nor was I a dick. My point is that the problem isn't with my font but its combination with your personal selection. I'm not going to change for you, and not my problem if you won't change for me.
If anything, you were dickish just repeating the same thing you had already said. What was accomplished by your post? Or reposting it? Or by these posts? Nothing.
Text formatting is trivial and not up for discussion further in this thread. Make a thread about it in another forum if you want.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineMonsieurChampi
wut? wut? WUUUT?


Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 147
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic—A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18161372 - 04/24/13 02:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I may look into it. But I can have rye for 2,49$/kg at the natural food store.
And the cheaper grass seed I found is like 42,99$ for 8kg which is still 5,37$/kg.

In your opinion, is grass really worth the fact that it costs more than twice as much?


--------------------
"it's more like a war that you haven't won yet, where the enemy turns out to be your saviour and you have been fighting yourself all along."
- Aldebaran

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InvisibleViolet
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Posts: 4,205
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic—A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: MonsieurChampi]
    #18161483 - 04/24/13 02:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Kindof a trick question. Seed isn't even twice as much for me.
However it is a bit more for seed than others so your question still applies somewhat.

If grass seed were 2x as expensive here as rye grain, I would still be using it at least as an inoculation source. Each jar/container of grain contains 3 or 4 times as many grains, so since other than fruiting it my application is as an inoculant, yes it would be worth paying double or more since it saves on sterilizing costs etc. and fewer pounds are bought.

Even as a straight-substrate I might just pay up to double for grass seed over other grains due to how much I love preparing and handling it. After all it has eliminated ALL other substrates from my work. Though if it were really expensive enough I might stick to a cheapie like wheat or rye. I bet that peeps with less of a particular preference than me may end up preferring other less-costly grains for that reason.

Remember everyone: Root cost-per-pound is not everything. If it ends up outrunning other grains in performance, then those lesser-expensive grains end up costing more with tables turned.


For that matter… A health food store is not a good reference for grain prices. I promise that you're getting ripped-off if you order from them. Figure something else out, there are other options. So although informative in its answer, your question is more of a theoretical one as hopefully nobody really has to deal with such prices if they just search a bit more.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineBloodKil
Mangler av era mödrar slida
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Registered: 03/16/13
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #18161755 - 04/24/13 03:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

NewfoundFreedom said:No need to be a dick in response to a little constructive criticism.

I'm certainly not going to be changing my browsing theme, which I've been using since 2004, in order to read a post on rye grass seed preparation when there's already a perfectly fine preparation method from RR.

:sun:




Violets post is well readable by myself and many others.  Your the one who has the issue and the one bitching about it.  If you can't be bothered to change your shit screen format then please don't clutter up the thread that the rest of us are enjoying.

Back on topic....

Thanks for the replies.
Yeah on the edibles I would just be using the rgs as spawn, as currently I have some wbs for that usage and will be using a bulk substrate after.  Right now I'm hoping to have straw in time, but I'm waiting on my brother in law for that as he knows some local farmers.  (Other than that I have access to coir, grass clippings, and sawdust pretty much on hand). 

I may also attempt at adding nutes to my bulk substrates for edibles following your above procedure and let you know how it works after I get some solid numbers overtime.  I have lots of different nutes so it may take a while before I will be finished especially since I'm just starting with fungals.  (Other than fungal tablets I already used to help some of my plants soak up nutrients)

Edit...  For those looking for plasticware.  I stopped at 4 stores on the way home looking for prices on these (sams club, Walmart, Kmart, BBB)  cheapest in store I could find them was 5.88 for 6 of the ziploc twist and seal at Walmart.  (This was by far the cheapest as some other brands were nearly twice the price per container).  Ended up ordering from amazon however as its 4.88 for 6 with subscribe and save + I didn't feel like backtracking.  The lack of wait time to extract them really does look as if it will save enourmous amounts of time if doing a large quantity of grain sterilization.

Edited by BloodKil (04/24/13 04:26 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: BloodKil]
    #18161800 - 04/24/13 03:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No need for that, it's all good.


If you're using the seed as "spawn", I can't recommend it if it's more expensive than the others (which it usually is).
Using it as "spawn" to unsupplemented bulk substrates doesn't take much advantage of grass seed's traits. Even the potentially faster colonization is pointless on edible culture isolates as they will tear through substrate just as quickly regardless.

Using a sterile supplemented substrate, a single jar of grass seed goes 2x-5x as far as other grains as an inoculant source.



As for adding "nutes" to bulk substrates… Good luck - I doubt you'll see notable differences in result. People have tried this all the time to no avail.
One of the pieces of information I found that supports this particular use of fertilizers is the knowledge that additives such as blood meal and bone meal (nitrogen and phosphorous) must be composted into substrates to be made of use of them, and to eliminate problems due to pH and the likes.

If you want to try boosting your bulk substrates, go for it, make some power mushroom compost with blood meal and bone meal beforehand.
However this thread shows even such an improvement will not best the use of straight-grain.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineTFpek
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Registered: 12/03/11
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18162086 - 04/24/13 04:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)





More to come...

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OfflineMonsieurChampi
wut? wut? WUUUT?


Registered: 04/07/13
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Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic A power tek & million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18163775 - 04/24/13 09:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the info!

Quote:

Violet said:
Remember everyone: Root cost-per-pound is not everything. If it ends up outrunning other grains in performance, then those lesser-expensive grains end up costing more with tables turned.





agreed!!!

Quote:

Violet said:
For that matter… A health food store is not a good reference for grain prices. I promise that you're getting ripped-off if you order from them. Figure something else out, there are other options.




I know they usually are more expensive than anywhere else. But as it's the cheepest grain in bulk at that store and that I never saw rye elsewhere, I never though about it. But you are damn right! I'll look for a cheaper source!


--------------------
"it's more like a war that you haven't won yet, where the enemy turns out to be your saviour and you have been fighting yourself all along."
- Aldebaran

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OfflineBlake_Shroom
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic A power tek & million reasons [Re: MonsieurChampi]
    #18163960 - 04/24/13 10:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I've been using RGS for spawn bags. I can fit 4 full qrts of seed in a bag, and 4 bags in my pc. That's 16 full qrts of spawn. when I do jars, I usually fill 3/4 of the jar, using approximately 8-10 qrts, and PC 14 qrt jars at once. I only PC the bags for 4 hours, while i do my jars for 3 usually.

Gotta say, I'm in love with RGS. Prepping it is a bitch, and it makes my house smell so fucking nasty, like a locker room, when I'm straining it (I use a fan while straining it over a big window screen). I G2G's 1 pint of ATL#7 into 2 bags (1 pint into 8 qrts) and that shit looks great. Its been 4 days and you wouldnt believe it if i didnt show you. I'll upload some pics tomorrow.

Also, I did 1 pint of pan cyan into 2 bags, and those look tremendous as well!

I just recently did G2G with cubes into the bags. I used Rye berry grain for my jars for this cube batch, so i dont expect colonization to be as fast as my exotic bags (RGS into RGS), but it still works way better than doing Rye berries into rye berries.

I have spawned a few jars of RGS into trays for my GH as well, and they are colonizing way faster than my rye berries, although the growth doesnt *seem* to be as strong as my rye berry trays. I put some coir/verm on top of my substrate to cover all the exposed grains, and I'm hoping that this is the best method for RGS, although my trays are telling me just to mix evenly and not put a layer of sub on top.

Once again, I'll post pics of all this stuff tomorrow. I know this doesnt exactly follow your ideas (plastic, no bulk sub, etc) but I really am liking RGS and hope to help others with their bulk sub grows. Also, I think i'll go ahead and document my next spawn bag prep and post it. I am falling in love with them. When I PC with bags, I use a lot more grain, but my PC is such much lighter (no jars) and I feel like the price of the bags is offset by the savings in electricity, since I can PC more grains at once (even though I do PC longer).

:peace:

Edited by Blake_Shroom (04/24/13 10:20 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic A power tek & million reasons [Re: Blake_Shroom]
    #18164313 - 04/24/13 11:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

4 quarts per bag, 4 bags per PC run, 4 hours at pressure per run?
That's a lot of time and energy.

With smaller divisions of grain in plastic, quick lite runs in smaller PCs, you can get 6 containers (3 'quarts') down to 30min. or 8 containers for 40min. That's 24 'quarts' of grain in 4 hours at pressure instead of 14-16. More actual cooker runs, but much more effective

You have a very large cooker. Requires much more heat to get to pressure, and lets lots of it off with huge surface area like heat tower, requiring higher heat the whole time as well so the amount of energy involved starts to pile up.
Like a spaceship that runs on gas. The more gas you carry, the more gas you have to carry to carry that gas, thus the more gas you have to carry to carry that gas…
We gotta grow efficient, peeps! For our sakes, and everyone's

Quote:

Blake_Shroom said:
Prepping it is a bitch, and it makes my house smell so fucking nasty, like a locker room, when I'm straining it (I use a fan while straining it over a big window screen).



No wonder you think prepping is a bitch. I'd kill myself before doing it a way that resulted in that.
Try the prep in this thread. It's a cinch, doesn't smell crazy, short drain/strain, no drying.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineBlake_Shroom
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic A power tek & million reasons [Re: Violet]
    #18164467 - 04/25/13 12:38 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Ya I have a AA930 and all the jars in the world. No need to spend any more money on plastic containers unfortunately, or a smaller PC. I'm not bad talking it in any way, its just not the approach that's right for me at the moment. As far as your grain prep goes, I always need to dry my seed for a bit over the screen anyways. Its not that big of a deal, I dont mind the smell too much (when I have my oil burner burning), and I always have to dry other grain, so its not out of the way for me. I had some jars that had too much moisture on the grains and turned the bottom 1/4 of the jars into over hydrated grain :thumbdown: So now I do your tek, plus a little extra drying to make sure it doesnt happen anymore. You may not recommend it, but it is working for me. That doesnt mean I'm telling people to do it that way, just putting in my observation.

edit- I just reread everything and noticed you make it clear that the correct amount of boiling water is needed per qrt jar. I'll try this out next time i prep the grain and see if it works better than my method right now (which i would love to stop). Trouble is, I always do different amounts of grain depending on jar/bag availability and I usually just eye ball it in a bucket. Guess its time to get less lazy so i dont need to strain for so long:thumbup:

I'm gonna go to the dollar store and pick up a dozen strainers so i dont need to use my screen anymore. I'll just load up the strainers and set outside for a bit to dry.

As far as the time goes, as you stated, it works better for me to work in larger amounts. I know you are trying to defend your growing style and everything, but once again, it works out a lot better for me to do it my way. It may take a long time to PC, but during that time I do my HW, study, etc. Then when done, I have enough grain for 3-4 monos:thumbup:

Love the write up and thanks again for the realization of how awesome RGS is. I'll only be using RGS and some Rolled oats (found a 50# sack for $14.99!) from now on.

Edited by Blake_Shroom (04/25/13 12:48 AM)

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OfflineGoldenArrow
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic A power tek & million reasons [Re: Blake_Shroom]
    #18164599 - 04/25/13 01:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Posting so I can find this later when I do some sclerotia! :thumbup:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: TFpek]
    #18165103 - 04/25/13 07:37 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Nice, TFpek, I bet you'll like. Remember it's all in the flush capacity.
Dat look liek some grass seed agar.



Some more bangin' 4th flushes!



The cakes are starting to get really mushy, soft, even with more giant mushrooms growing from them. The seed is definitely well-eaten. I've seen few other substrates do like this; even my first experiments trying this out with rye grain didn't seem to be consumed as such.

I have a couple bricks of coir lying around. Nothing to use them for, since putting grain to them would be a waste.
No more 'bulks' for Psilocybes, never again.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisiblewcfcarolina13
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18165733 - 04/25/13 10:56 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This is an awesome Tek! My first bulk grow was actually straight rye. The tub colonized beautifully, I've never had a substrate turn so white and healthy. And the bottom of the tub was literally hot to the touch. I misted and fanned the crap out of it, thinking "Wow this thing is going to produce a pound!"
Well, a couple weeks passed by, it got all yellow and shrank big time. It never did produce even a single primordia.

This could have had something to do with proper fruiting conditions (probably a lot to do with it) among other screw-ups, but it was so healthy I just can't imagine that it wouldn't even try to produce fruit. I just can't believe that it was a contamination problem despite what may have been a less than pristine procedure. Something else was wrong.

Well, that was last summer, so I've forgotten some details and have had plenty of bad luck with  manure, verm and rye mix tubs. I'm convinced that there was something to that all-rye grow. It was ready to explode...but didn't.

Any idea why this may have happened? Ya think if I'd gave it a casing it would have done fine? Here's the original thread I posted back then. Looks like other folks were suggesting a casing, but I was too shell-shocked to try anything at the time. :mad:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=2&Number=16494443&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

Edit:

To try and answer my own question, it seems like a casing layer would have kept that top layer from drying and crusting over, as well as metabolizing so badly to fight off contaminants. Some of those contaminants probably would have been avoided if I hadn't pasteurized the bulk rye (though the mean green didn't show up for weeks after full colonization...perhaps moisture content is more important than sterilization when you're using rye as bulk). I found a suggestion that vermiculite may help with the loss of moisture in rye. Maybe verm would be helpful in all processes of colonization with bulk rye grows?

Here's a couple threads where folks say rye alone worked for them.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7117797#7117797

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/419617

RR comments on rye grain and casing in this thread:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12992483#12992483

Edited by wcfcarolina13 (04/25/13 01:18 PM)

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