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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18260319 - 05/13/13 08:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

what were the cubensis varieties that you used in the tek?


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18260422 - 05/13/13 09:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Some isolates of Golden Teacher, Albino A+, Orissa India. There are some of PE6 too. I've done others as well but am not sure if their photos are up here.


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18260460 - 05/13/13 09:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

cool in your opinon which one of those varieties is the top yielding and potent isolate?


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Edited by itsaconspiracy (05/13/13 09:22 PM)

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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18260751 - 05/13/13 10:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

As said in the thread, I've phased-out these cultures, as they're all clones from giants. I don't like 'em anymore and will be on the hunt again with new tactics for better cultures.
They're all quite nice tho.
My preferences haven't been towards those variables with these, rather things for instance the fruit's grip to the substrate thus harvest damage, evenness of top fruiting, and decent (not too large) fruit size due to drying, several preferences…
It seems as if the Orissa one shown here has been yielding best, especially since it's gone strong thru 6th flushes, but it's not easy to tell since they're all doing mostly the same and I will do better.
I'll only get real specific about strength comparisons from one culture to the next once I've picked cultures that are candidates for really growing due to the other easier-to-quantify factors; then the one that seems to do best for potency will be a keeper. As of yet I've not gone to such lengths with comparing one of these cultures to the next on treated grain subs, only single isolates on straight grain compared to bulks as it is simpler to address.


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18260782 - 05/13/13 10:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thatsinteresting: o.k thanks for the answer i was looking for your opinon and you gave it thanks most people would have got all into a cube is a cube but you gave a straight foward answer:thumbup:


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18260811 - 05/13/13 10:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well "a cube is a cube" would apply with multispore cultures, but all of these grows are isolated genes so comparisons of one culture to the next can be made. However, those culture's performance does not reflect the sporeline variety as a whole. My nice Orissa culture doesn't mean Orissa multispore will be better than any other Cube. It cannot be known if any variety is capable of stronger cultures within since their matrix of randomness is unimaginably wide.


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18260883 - 05/13/13 10:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said: Well "a cube is a cube" would apply with multispore cultures,



true but i asked about your isolates.

Quote:

Violet said: However, those culture's performance does not reflect the sporeline variety as a whole.



also true i was asking as in your personal cultures not just all cultures in general.

Quote:

Violet said:My nice Orissa culture doesn't mean Orissa multispore will be better than any other Cube. It cannot be known if any variety is capable of stronger cultures within since their matrix of randomness is unimaginably wide.



also true you isolated the a single mushroom of the Orissa varity and a multispore wouldn't even compare to isolated genes. and its true it can't be known what variety will give a stronger mushrooms that would be impossible, but i was asking which one you liked better out of those strians


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18260896 - 05/13/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

OK awesome. Your response made me wonder if you were fully in on those exact details. You are!

Thanks!


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18260960 - 05/13/13 10:47 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said: Your response made me wonder if you were fully in on those exact details.


:nodofunderstanding: ya i wasn't to specific sorry i rephrase a little bit o.k out of the isolates of the varieties  you  listed "Golden Teacher, Albino A+, Orissa India" which is your "favorite" (I'll leave out the potency and yield parts it made me sound very un knowledgeable:derp:)


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18261012 - 05/13/13 10:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hahahah, well hm, I actually do have a personal answer for that. It's only my observation so can only be considered within my status of the many variables to consider - However it seems that my specific spore lines called "GT" "AA+" and "OI" all have tendencies to make giant fruits. They seem to be well known for this… I don't like giant fruits instead of many smaller fruits. I've been leaning towards my several other Cubensis lines as my personal experience with these ones over several spore generations has been biggies more than clusters.


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18261101 - 05/13/13 11:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said: However it seems that my specific spore lines called "GT" "AA+" and "OI" all have tendencies to make giant fruits. They seem to be well known for this… I don't like giant fruits instead of many smaller fruits.


o.k a good personal answer:thumbup:
so you like the varieties but don't love them cause of there tendencies to create larger fruits I'm going to guess its because larger fruit tend to suck alot of moisture and nutrients out of the substrate and cause smaller flushes.
Quote:

Violet said: I've been leaning towards my several other Cubensis lines as my personal experience with these ones over several spore generations has been biggies more than clusters.


o.k so which variety are you singleing out my guesses would be penis envy or
B+.


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: itsaconspiracy]
    #18261157 - 05/13/13 11:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

itsaconspiracy said:
so you like the varieties but don't love them cause of there tendencies to create larger fruits I'm going to guess its because larger fruit tend to suck alot of moisture and nutrients out of the substrate and cause smaller flushes.



No they still put out plenty of weight if they're decent cultures.
It's mostly because the yield comes in a few very large and hard-to-dry mushrooms instead of many easy-to-dry&use small ones.

Quote:

itsaconspiracy said:
o.k so which variety are you singleing out my guesses would be penis envy or B+.



Hahah well that's too long of a discussion for me here. I have many.


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Offlineitsaconspiracy
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18261177 - 05/13/13 11:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said: Hahah well that's too long of a discussion for me here. I have many.


:hmm: o.k but i would like to here about your future grows and what strains you plan to use perhaps make another thread on the subject


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18261186 - 05/13/13 11:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Will any cube grown on grain have a higher concentration of psilo than a cube grown on horsedung or coir?  ms or iso? I'm guessing just an iso because of the unpredicatablility of ms.. I just don't understand why a cube would produce excess quantities of psilocybin because of the nutrients it's exposed to :shrug:.



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Edited by b plus (05/13/13 11:36 PM)

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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18261190 - 05/13/13 11:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i just got my hands on some wild prints i wanna put to use this summer because of the same issue i am having with AA+, some big fruits but not that many but the yield is still average. there also very slow growers i'm working with as i've had these ones that the veils been tearing for 3 days lol

shitty pic but you can see the veil tear, it also has a tendency to tear from the stipe and not the cap making printing a little harder if it decides to print(i've had many that dropped very weak prints)
but a fresh start and a genetic hunt is always fun:thumbup:


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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: b plus]
    #18261535 - 05/14/13 12:39 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

b plus said:
Will any cube grown on grain have a higher concentration of psilo than a cube grown on horsedung or coir?  ms or iso? I'm guessing just an iso because of the unpredicatablility of ms..



Yeah spore variety blurs the issue too much for sure. However, for the same reason isolates have been showing greater strength from these treated subs, those same cultures not-yet-isolated amongst their multispore buddies would have the same potential. That reason elaborated more below.

Quote:

b plus said:
I just don't understand why a cube would produce excess quantities of psilocybin because of the nutrients it's exposed to.




Genetics will be the largest variable. Ultimately it doesn't matter what's present if the organism's metabolism isn't making much of the stuff anyway. StygianNight elaborated on this above.

However, the genetic variable is simply one of many interacting variables. The end result of potency will be the result of the way they all come into play together, this we know for a fact.

Another friend shared with me some bio chem knowledge that may shed some light on your inquiry.
Quote:

raygle29 said:
Phosphate probably is the limiting reagent though, since phosphate equilibrium is crucial to maintaining the intermediates cells use for energy. "Where we put our phosphates" matters, and putting them in the form of psilocybin and transporting them out of the cell takes phosphates out of this energy equilibrium and, if too much psilocybin gets made, the equilibrium slows down everything in the metabolism.




The premise is not that psilo production is increased simply due to increased nutrient content and makeup, as was your thought.
Rather that lots of organic building blocks are present, excess of the necessary metabolical keys are present in usable form, genetics with metabolic patterns driven to move along lots of our intended conversions, and plenty of time for these things to have occurred before fruiting, are all present factors that enable the maximum job to be done as all the variables come together for our final result.

It won't happen that way without most/all variables in top form.


Quote:

Violet said:
Substrate nutrient densities are very important for the creation of potency level, but are not responsible for it.

That one is the kicker. Let me elaborate on that, so that nobody mis-takes me:
  • High nutrient density ≠ potent mushrooms. Low nutrient density ≠ weak mushrooms. It's not that simple.
  • Potency < Nutrient density. There will always be fewer Psilo particles than were originally nitrogen and phosphorous.
  • Low nutrient density + impotent mycelium = low potency.  Hi nutrient density + impotent mycelium = low potency.  With weak mycelium, no substrate will grow strong mushrooms.
  • Low nutrient density + potent mycelium = low/limited potency.  Hi nutrient density + potent mycelium = high potency  Even with strong mycelium, without the necessary components for potency it cannot be developed.

    Thus substrate nutrition determines how potent mushrooms can be but mycelia genetics determine how potent mushrooms will be. When enough nutrition is present for them to perform up to their capability in all aspects, and genetics proven to make the most of that are used, you can be pretty sure of a knockout batch!



  • Edited by Violet (05/14/13 12:55 AM)

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    Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: cronicr]
        #18261546 - 05/14/13 12:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

    The photo shown, from this thread,

    is one PF cake's impressive first flush.
    Photo of same cake overhead for an idea of actual scale:

    Quote:

    BaKeRx561x420 said:
    83.8 grams fresh first flush one 1/2 pint cake


    So ~8.4g dry

    Yes, that very nice close-up photo with boomers filling the frame is glorious! It truly captures how impressive of a PF Tek grow it was.
    Note that many growers say it's the best or right with the best PF grows they've seen… even saying that they've never seen ones like it or seldom do.
    It is indeed an extraordinary result for a PF cake. Exactly so. It is a famous and rather rare example of PF cake 1st flush output.

    Here is it's second flush.

    PF cakes are prepared like a well-supplemented bulk substrate. In a sense they are mini bulk grows, as one of vermiculite's main purposes is to hold enough moisture in advance for a large flush fueled on the grain flour.

    Thus they have effectively the same flushing curve as bulk substrate grows.
    First flushes will contain the majority of yield, typically more than half.
    Even if we consider its first flush as just half the yield potential, that PF cake would come to ~17 dry grams as such.


    However this is not the case for the bottom-watered straight-grain cakes presented here.
    Flush after flush these cakes show a much stronger flushing curve as has been shown in this thread. They pass their PF-style cousins in the end. 17 dry g has been for me an average yield for multi-spore variety cakes.
    Don't let impressive first-flush-photos turn your attention away from total yield.


    The photos presented in this tek are not such rare prize gem selections.
    They are whatever results I so happened to get with blind-isolated clones from bulk grows, with many iterations to show consistency.
    I have results that are better and results that are worse, varying on many factors primarily culture & time of initiation.


    If you get a lucky multispore draw as that PF grower did,
    Quote:

    BaKeRx561x420 said:
    I don't think I will be able to replicate this grow ever again since every multispore grow is different IMO.


    but it were put on something with this flushing curve capacity, what do you think the later flushes and final yield would look like instead? :awesanta:

    Having isolates with that veracity offers such incredible results each time, 1st flushes like or almost like that magnificent PF 1st flush, but with far greater consecutive flushes.


    I'm not here presenting a "wow" factor. If I were I'd be showing you what full-fruit of 36 containers per greenhouse shelf looks like with these isolates, canopies for flush after flush after flush. My intent is only to show the average capability range of a single cake and the ease at which they can be used and multiplied.


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    Edited by Violet (05/14/13 01:47 AM)

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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
        #18265540 - 05/14/13 08:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

    Quote:

    Violet said:
    As glorious as it appears with all those large mushrooms I cannot help but remember the typical flushing curve with such a grow.
    350g fresh first yield. If the typical math pans out it could produce around 2oz dry, being a clone isolate with dunks and all. One quart hydrated seed, ~4 quarts of hydrated coir.
    Without the coir, that grain could be in 2 containers and change, same culture, 2oz dry. In fact it has, over and over again, and the photo proof is all over this thread.






    Sounds pretty nice, about 1 quart brf spawnbag (24hr dunk+blended) only did 125g 1st flush on straw for me (MS, not a clone) - I think my spawn ratio was just about the same as yours

    Will try it out, got a bag of grass seed somewhere (I like your easy agar tek too, always had to mix in oatmeal into the agar.. and strain)

    Will be trying coir+cloning shortly, straw is too much hassle in the end :smile:
    Don't chop straw in your living room

    (tried biopsy cloning and that failed me, honey LC got contamed each time with bacteria somehow(but still colonized 100% it seemed+fruited)... so using agar now)

    Good tek, thanks :smile:

    Edited by lessismore (05/14/13 08:53 PM)

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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: lessismore]
        #18274159 - 05/16/13 01:52 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

    Updates! First 2 sets were agar-wedged 8 days ago.

    Ziploc 16 oz:


    Glad 28oz:


    Pinning progress (7 days with cracked lid):


    Nothing to see here, move along:

    Edited by TFpek (05/16/13 01:58 PM)

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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: TFpek]
        #18276127 - 05/16/13 09:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

    No casing, TFpek? May be dry there.


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