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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


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Should drugs be legalized?
#18115456 - 04/15/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Now, when I say drugs, I am talking about everything that currently falls under Schedule I.
I recently had to write an essay for my history class about how the Drug War parallels the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920s. Based on my findings, prohibition was actually extremely useful for the US as a whole because it decimated the rampant alcoholism and alcohol-related deaths that were occurring during the early parts of the 20th century. Actually, the only reason congress decided to repeal the Volstead Act (which banned alcohol) was because of the Great Depression. They decided that the jobs, revenue, and taxes that could come as a result of booze were worth way more than the ethical implications of allowing satan sauce back into the US.
Obviously, the Drug War hasn't completely stopped people from doing as many fucking drugs as they see fit, but it has certainly made us more cautious and more aware of what we are getting ourselves into. The way I see it, the only reason AT ALL for congress to legalize ANYTHING that falls under Schedule I is if another Great Depression happens. Then they really won't have much of a choice but to allow everything and anything people want to flood the market until things return to normal.
What do you guys think? Is there even a possibility that the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 will ever be repealed?
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: Should drugs be legalized?
Yes.
Quote:
Based on my findings, prohibition was actually extremely useful for the US as a whole because it decimated the rampant alcoholism and alcohol-related deaths that were occurring during the early parts of the 20th century. Actually, the only reason congress decided to repeal the Volstead Act (which banned alcohol) was because of the Great Depression.
Troll?
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
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Loc: Shmexas, Texas
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: ChuangTzu]
#18115673 - 04/15/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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No... not troll.
There is statistical evidence from the Census Bureau showing that the average per-capita consumption of alcohol took almost 50 years to get back to where it was after the enactment and repeal of the Volstead Act.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: ChuangTzu]
#18115799 - 04/15/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said:
Quote:
shimishimiman said: Should drugs be legalized?
Yes.
Most definitely.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
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Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Right ok, I think most everyone here can agree that they want drugs to be legalized for some reason or another.
However, what I asked is not a rhetorical question - I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized. Do you actually have a genuinely good reason - a reason that you think would justify their legality in a court of law?
I am not in any way shape or form against legalization, I just want to know WHY you think they would be better off being legalized and taxed given the current state of the US.
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Redpill


Registered: 01/23/13
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I do not think all drugs should be legalized. Especially benzos, amphetamines and opiates; they have way too much potential for addiction. And with higher availability there would be so many more people hopelessly dependent on those drugs. I know there are people that can use those drugs responsibly and in moderation, but they are a small percentage of users.
A line has to be drawn somewhere between personal liberties and the well-being of the public as a whole.
I do however think the laws should be much more lenient. The laws should be more of a disapproval and a way to reasonably restrict drug sales, rather than treating drug use as some sort of treasonous sin punishable by prison. But complete legalization? Fuck that, I want to live in a society that's at least somewhat functional.
But I strongly believe in legalization of Marijuana.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Quote:
shimishimiman said: Right ok, I think most everyone here can agree that they want drugs to be legalized for some reason or another.
However, what I asked is not a rhetorical question - I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized. Do you actually have a genuinely good reason - a reason that you think would justify their legality in a court of law?
I am not in any way shape or form against legalization, I just want to know WHY you think they would be better off being legalized and taxed given the current state of the US.
I do not give a shit about the best interests of "the public". I give a shit about freedom. The freedom to destroy yourself in any way you see fit. All drugs should be available to all competent adults. They should also be offered exactly zero forced (i.e. government) assistance should they fuck up. It is called the dignity of risk. When you treat adults like children they will act like children.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18117788 - 04/16/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
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Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18118377 - 04/16/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I do not give a shit about the best interests of "the public". I give a shit about freedom. The freedom to destroy yourself in any way you see fit. All drugs should be available to all competent adults. They should also be offered exactly zero forced (i.e. government) assistance should they fuck up. It is called the dignity of risk. When you treat adults like children they will act like children.
But that severely compromises the entire dynamic behind having a functioning nation. Remember what happened in China? They started executing people in the streets because of how much of a problem the national opium addiction had become.
Legalization will promote the usage of substances by both responsible AND irresponsible adults. For the most part, the people of today who choose to dabble in the dark arts of psychedelics, stimulants, and opiates are doing so as freely as they like, but with the added risk of being thrown in prison. The only difference legalizing them would make is allowing people who never had to go through the motions of finding a trustworthy drug dealer the equal opportunity to do as many drugs as they see fit.
Do you actually believe that the MAJORITY of Americans in this day and age are capable of making proper decisions for themselves without government influence?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Quote:
shimishimiman said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I do not give a shit about the best interests of "the public". I give a shit about freedom. The freedom to destroy yourself in any way you see fit. All drugs should be available to all competent adults. They should also be offered exactly zero forced (i.e. government) assistance should they fuck up. It is called the dignity of risk. When you treat adults like children they will act like children.
But that severely compromises the entire dynamic behind having a functioning nation. Remember what happened in China? They started executing people in the streets because of how much of a problem the national opium addiction had become.
Legalization will promote the usage of substances by both responsible AND irresponsible adults. For the most part, the people of today who choose to dabble in the dark arts of psychedelics, stimulants, and opiates are doing so as freely as they like, but with the added risk of being thrown in prison. The only difference legalizing them would make is allowing people who never had to go through the motions of finding a trustworthy drug dealer the equal opportunity to do as many drugs as they see fit.
Do you actually believe that the MAJORITY of Americans in this day and age are capable of making proper decisions for themselves without government influence?
Let us break this down into two parts
Part one;
"Do you actually believe that the MAJORITY of Americans in this day and age are capable of making proper decisions for themselves?"
No.
Part two;
"without government influence?"
The government is even less capable. Unless it is the government of Emperor Me. Then yes, in that case, I agree the government would be helpful. But that isn't the case.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18118486 - 04/16/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I do not give a shit about the best interests of "the public". I give a shit about freedom
Lol now thats a winning campaign slogan right there. Sadly some drugs destroy way more than just the users life.Like Alcohol.
Imagin drugs are legal tomorrow , all of them. What about their manufacture? will that be legal in residential areas for the purpose of freedom? I mean why buy meth when you can just cook it in your kitchen kinda like you would brew beer.Well its a little different. So my neighbor says fuck ya Im freeeeeee ill cook some me meeeeeeeeth fuck yaaaaaaa, blows himself up , takes out me and the wife , leaves my kids orphans. What now . His freedom just accidentaly fucked my family over a good one. If all drugs are legal , people are gunna do really dumb shit to cause people harm and do damage. How will you attach blame for this shit and what recourse will I have When peoples legal recklessness affects me or my loved ones? Im mean your right fuck them but uhhh... If he was drunk or sober and did this with his car my insurance could sue his insurance and my kids may have some sort of shot at something. If drugs are legal were gunna have to have a drug users insurance I dont see any real way around it. If you snort too much legal coke and flip out and start swinging a chair at dennys for no reason and take out my grandma's eye, some lawyer is gunna say well it wasnt really him , it was the totally legal coke that he accidentally snorted a little too much of that caused it. Since I cant blame the drug or him Im gunna just gunna have to sue his user insurance , and once you fuck up too much you wont be able to get insurance and you cant use drugs anymore . And if you get caught using drugs without insurance we'll just shoot you in the face on the spot.
I always hear people talk about ending the drug war and making everything legal. I dont think we have a drug war problem, I think we have a marijuana war problem. I dont think all drugs are reaching the level of public acceptance like marijuana where we should go mmmm drugs + freedom -welfare = more freedom and a better world for all.
Quote:
Do you actually believe that the MAJORITY of Americans in this day and age are capable of making proper decisions for themselves without government influence?
A majority yes. That doesnt mean the minority isnt capable of ruining everything for everyone else. It also doesnt mean that some drugs drugs over time wont rob you of that ability. Or cause it shockingly fast. Its different for everyone and unpredictable.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18118714 - 04/16/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did I say anything about zoning residential areas for meth factories? If it's legal the meth factories will be in industrial areas with oodles and oodles of safeguards to prevent explosions of the kind you so creatively invented. Duh.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18118832 - 04/16/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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So meth use , bueno, watching a breaking bad marathon and deciding no one will really care that much if you try to make you own blue shit , because its legal anyway , no bueno?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18118854 - 04/16/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's what zoning laws are for. I have no problem with zoning laws. Do you?
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18118888 - 04/16/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I understand zoning laws allot better than you understand meth addicts apparently . That's like telling a guy he can come over and get a bj from your wife whenever he wants, as long as he doesn't cum in her mouth. They won't respect your halfassness toward their behavior. This is why their behavior will need to be insured. By someone.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18119025 - 04/16/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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It'll be so cheap no homemade meth cook could stay in business.
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hockeyplyr1057
Music Lover



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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18119149 - 04/16/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
It'll be so cheap no homemade meth cook could stay in business.
People don't seem to get this idea though...smh...
-------------------- All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. -Gandalf
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
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Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It'll be so cheap no homemade meth cook could stay in business.
People don't seem to get this idea though...smh...
So your going to subsidize it then? I already have legal weed , growing it at home is way , way,way cheaper than buying it at 5,10,or20 a gram from the dispensary. Way cheaper. tell ya what, click on that link in my thing and take a look , then explain to me how buying cyans would be more affordable to me the what I already got.Cheaper than homemade for free, uhhhhhhhhhh ok. you must be subsidizing it then. If its going to be made industrially , it will have to be shipped, packaged , inspected, tested, approved, stored ,marketed, insured ,union made and whatever you get the idea, im not seeing it.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18119309 - 04/16/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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And thats not even the point. My point is all drugs are different , some safe , some very dangerous , we cant take the same reckless approach towards their legalization like we did when we made them illegal and just lump them all in the same category. They all need to be looked at individually.
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Rockhound
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18119499 - 04/16/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes Yes Yes any questions? PM me
-------------------- Rocks speak to me, and tell me this: The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise. In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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They started executing people in the streets because of how much of a problem the national opium addiction had become.
Are you saying that was some sort of a problem?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized.
I never said it was in the best interest of the public. That is a peripheral question at most.
The federal government has no power to tell anyone what they can or cannot possess or put into their own bodies when nobody else is harmed. Furthermore, it is wrong to use violence and/or the threat of violence to inflict your version of public benefit onto people.
Alcohol consumption may have gone down during prohibition. I don't know if it did or not and it doesn't matter. Crime (actual crime like murder, assault, and robbery--not the "crime" of possessing a liquid) definitely went up due to the greatly increased role of the black market in organized crime. As did infringements on freedom.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: ChuangTzu]
#18119975 - 04/16/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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The criminal organizations that were involved with bootleg alcohol were already involved in illegal activities before they started making moonshine. Prohibition simply created a new market for them, and with the aid of Hollywood and the press criminals just started to make a new name for themselves.
It seems like the only argument anyone has regarding this issue is that it is a matter of justice - the personal freedoms that America is always pushing should include our right to ingest whatever the fuck it is that we want to ingest without the fear of being slammed by the penal system.
But what good would really come from legalizing the drugs? Would we begin to trust in our government more? Would there be some sort of cultural revolution revolving around the overall well being of mankind? Would anything change at all?
Quite frankly, I doubt it. People are already set in their ways - the people who want to get stoned are already getting stoned. The people who don't, don't. Legalizing them would not change a fucking thing. Even the stigma of being a drug user would remain the same.
The only difference is you won't receive federal punishment for using. Are your personal freedoms really worth compromising the integrity of the working machine that is our nation?
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: However, what I asked is not a rhetorical question - I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized. Do you actually have a genuinely good reason - a reason that you think would justify their legality in a court of law?
I am not in any way shape or form against legalization, I just want to know WHY you think they would be better off being legalized and taxed given the current state of the US.
They should be legalized for many reasons.
The first has already been detailed by many other users. American citizens should have the liberty to do what they want to their own bodies. Its a freedom we should have access to.
The second reason is that the drug war needs to end. One of America's biggest problems is that we have too many people in our prisons and going through our courts and most of them are there for drug offenses. Cops constantly fighting the drug war are being used up as a resource. Also, the criminalization of drugs merely insures that the anyone participating in the drug market is automatically in the crime world. Hence, gang wars over drug turf. Ending the drug war would end a lot of American crime.
We could also then produce our own drugs domestically, where they could be taxed and sold, instead of losing money and other resources as a result of the activities of drug cartels.
Finally, there is a lot of sociological research coming out of Portugal (which recently legalized all drugs) to suggest that it may be beneficial for people who actually have addiction problems to be able to address those problems in the open. Granted, Portugal is a different society/political body than the US, but some of the addiction treatment issues should overlap.
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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carpetmunch
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: gluke bastid] 1
#18120059 - 04/16/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, all drugs should be legalized. Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one. Is the public safer because some drugs are illegal? No, Not with a war on some drugs. The biggest problem though is forcing your code of morality on others. That is simply not OK. I think you are just stirring the pot and trying to get a reaction from the folks here. They are more than a few threads where the pro and cons of drug legalization have been discussed. If you are honestly trying to gather info and form your opinion on this topic you could start there.
-------------------- You gotta do what you gotta do. Sometimes you gotta munch cactus, some times you gotta munch carpet!
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Redpill


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18120206 - 04/16/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one.
Do you think alcohol, tobacco and caffeine would be as available as they are if they were illegal? I honestly think every illegal drug is less available than it would be if there were no restrictions.
Let's look at cigarettes, if they were illegal you would not be able to buy them at every gas station and grocery store in America. You would have to go to a dealer. That's what I would call less available.
And how about LSD, you think if it was legal it would be as hard to find as it is now? To say that drug laws don't restrict access is just plain ridiculous.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
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Quote:
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
More lethal overdoses. In the last 13 years prescription pain killers have come to account for account for about 3/4 of all drug overdose deaths.It exceeds traffic accident fatalities. This is why theres a push to limit how its prescribed . The more doctors give away the more people die. Its pretty simple. But ya know freedom and all that.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18120764 - 04/16/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: Yes, all drugs should be legalized. Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one. Is the public safer because some drugs are illegal? No, Not with a war on some drugs. The biggest problem though is forcing your code of morality on others. That is simply not OK. I think you are just stirring the pot and trying to get a reaction from the folks here. They are more than a few threads where the pro and cons of drug legalization have been discussed. If you are honestly trying to gather info and form your opinion on this topic you could start there.
So what if I'm stirring the pot? I have read some of the other threads about this topic, and none of them have any evidence that can prove without a reasonable doubt that legalizing drugs would be more beneficial to America than leaving everything the way it is. Our idea of justice, being that people should be able to whatever the hell they want so long as they aren't hurting anyone else, is not THEIR idea of justice. Their idea of justice is making sure the sober and the hard working American maintains social dominance, and the stoned hippies go to Europe where they belong.
I am telling you, the only time there will ever be any sort of excuse WHATSOEVER for congress to deem their legalization to be of any real benefit is if our economy crashes and burns once again. That's exactly what they did with alcohol, and I am certain that is the only way.
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DrumsyStrings

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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18120779 - 04/16/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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What makes you think overdoses would go up if they were to become legal? I think that with proper education about these drugs instead of bullshit government propaganda we would see a decrease in detrimental drug use. I don't need to be told what is right or wrong by the gov. If all drugs were made legal it's not like I'm gonna go out and buy some heroin. And if some idiot decides to do heroin just because the gov made it legal then good fucking let em. It's their own decision not the governments and they can kill themselves slowly if they feel the need.
-------------------- i like bongos. i like shpongle. i like mushrooms.
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carpetmunch
Stranger


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You might read about what Portugal has done regarding drugs. I don't see why the benefits seen there could not be seen here if similar steps were taken.
Do you think what is being done here in the USA is really working?
-------------------- You gotta do what you gotta do. Sometimes you gotta munch cactus, some times you gotta munch carpet!
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Redpill


Registered: 01/23/13
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Loc: Lake Wobegon, MN
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18121208 - 04/16/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: You might read about what Portugal has done regarding drugs. I don't see why the benefits seen there could not be seen here if similar steps were taken.
Do you think what is being done here in the USA is really working?
What portugal did is essentially what I suggested earlier. They didn't legalize the drugs, they decriminalized them. There is a Huge difference between those things.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18122655 - 04/17/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
More lethal overdoses. In the last 13 years prescription pain killers have come to account for account for about 3/4 of all drug overdose deaths.It exceeds traffic accident fatalities. This is why theres a push to limit how its prescribed . The more doctors give away the more people die. Its pretty simple. But ya know freedom and all that.
This is complete bullshit.
1. Doctors do not "give away" prescription drugs 2. There were 37,423 traffic fatalities in 2008 Painkillers "were involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers. 3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal. 4. You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity. If all drugs are legal there will be more people growing pot in their yards. Growing pot in your yard does not require a dangerous explosive toxic lab. It is also cheap. A meth lab, even clandestine, is not cheap. Legalizing meth will drive out all the illegal meth labs because they can't compete.
5. You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18122797 - 04/17/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is complete bullshit.
No your joke of an attitude is.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.53UGlpFK.dpbs
Look at the chart on this. Drug overdoses all combined are are more than traffic accidents.
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involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers.
100% beside the point. The point is more availibility leads to more overdoses. This will be very true for H. Make it widley available youll see more overdose fatalitys.
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3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal.
Ca says its legal. Whos the nanny state proabitionist here? You want them to bust me or something? Dont believe in states rights? What the fuck are you saying. Spitefull jealousy maybe?
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You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity.
No thats not what I said at all . Not at all. You made a moronic meth will be safer if we regulate it with bullshit zoning laws no one will care about statement and then went on to lay a giant anchorline of bullshit on me about how state regulated meth will be cheaper than made at home for yourself meth. I brought up growing weed so you could tell me how going out to a store and buying it would make it cheaper. still waiting for an answer.
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You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
See your number 3. Your a mean old man. If only you could make viagra at home for free, huh.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/19/news/la-heb-drug-overdoses-increase-20130219
more = more dead.This is the sad case for a few dangerous drugs. The nanny state hasnt made it harder for people to get pain pills doctors overprescribing them for profit have.
"a Times investigation last year that showed a surge in painkiller prescriptions in California and across the nation has had fatal consequences."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18123688 - 04/17/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
This is complete bullshit.
No your joke of an attitude is.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.53UGlpFK.dpbs
Look at the chart on this. Drug overdoses all combined are are more than traffic accidents.
You said prescription painkillers and post a chart that notes all drug overdose?. Try to keep up.Quote:
Quote:
involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers.
100% beside the point. The point is more availibility leads to more overdoses. This will be very true for H. Make it widley available youll see more overdose fatalitys.
Make it a standard strength and you'll see less of them. But so what, Nanny? It isn't yours to decide.Quote:
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3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal.
Ca says its legal. Whos the nanny state proabitionist here? You want them to bust me or something? Dont believe in states rights? What the fuck are you saying. Spitefull jealousy maybe?
I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal. Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.Quote:
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You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity.
No thats not what I said at all . Not at all. You made a moronic meth will be safer if we regulate it with bullshit zoning laws no one will care about statement and then went on to lay a giant anchorline of bullshit on me about how state regulated meth will be cheaper than made at home for yourself meth. I brought up growing weed so you could tell me how going out to a store and buying it would make it cheaper. still waiting for an answer.
It costs money to make a meth lab. Your stupid illegal pot garden is irrelevant. Any jackass can throw weed seeds on the ground. And they can't zone you out for industrial activity. The meth cowboys will be out of business.Quote:
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You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
See your number 3. Your a mean old man. If only you could make viagra at home for free, huh.
Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works? Quote:
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/19/news/la-heb-drug-overdoses-increase-20130219
more = more dead.This is the sad case for a few dangerous drugs. The nanny state hasnt made it harder for people to get pain pills doctors overprescribing them for profit have.
"a Times investigation last year that showed a surge in painkiller prescriptions in California and across the nation has had fatal consequences."
They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18124453 - 04/17/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works?
Thats why i said too bad you cant.
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I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal.
I can go to 10 diff stores right now and buy all the weed I want, plus like 10 diff types of hash,. Its been that way for a while. I cant have a plantation on public land ,but I can have some plants in my yard. No one is stopping me. local cops dont care . legal enough, yet not enough. my point is making my own is cheaper and meth is very easy to make , actually most jackasses who are too stupid to know better after not sleeping for 2 weeks can do it. Or at least get to the blowing yourself up part.
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It costs money to make a meth lab.
not that much money and it doesnt mean they wont do it. Your determining how its made remember. Plus tweaking can make you go phycotic its not just about the lab.
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They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
So you agree , more availability =more dead. I already know you would take satisfaction in seeing losers die.
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Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.
Ok , then explain to me how crystal meth or H is just as safe as marijuana. Explain to me the equality. Are we going to stop drug testing too?Will it be legal to come to work high on meth? Its not like you go to sleep and it wears off the next day.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18124761 - 04/17/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
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Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works?
Thats why i said too bad you cant.
Do you not know the difference between what you can do and what you would want to do. I can poke a fork in my eye. But I don't want to. Did you also not know we were discussing the condition should it be legalized?Quote:
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I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal.
I can go to 10 diff stores right now and buy all the weed I want, plus like 10 diff types of hash,. Its been that way for a while. I cant have a plantation on public land ,but I can have some plants in my yard. No one is stopping me. local cops dont care . legal enough, yet not enough. my point is making my own is cheaper and meth is very easy to make , actually most jackasses who are too stupid to know better after not sleeping for 2 weeks can do it. Or at least get to the blowing yourself up part.
The feds can stop you any time they want. See the above mentioned difference between what you can do and what you want to do is?Quote:
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It costs money to make a meth lab.
not that much money and it doesnt mean they wont do it. Your determining how its made remember. Plus tweaking can make you go phycotic its not just about the lab.
I'm not determining how it's made at all. I use zoning laws to confine the manufacture of meth to an industrial zoned area. The market will put the homecook out of business.
Yes. I've heard some assholes seem to have trouble with the drug. What does that have to do with me? I never had any problem with it.Quote:
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They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
So you agree , more availability =more dead. I already know you would take satisfaction in seeing losers die.
Can't say that it would increase deaths and I take no satisfaction in the death of a junkie. I think they're loser assholes but it doesn't please meQuote:
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Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.
Ok , then explain to me how crystal meth or H is just as safe as marijuana. Explain to me the equality. Are we going to stop drug testing too?Will it be legal to come to work high on meth? Its not like you go to sleep and it wears off the next day.
Safety has nothing to do with it nor does showing up for work high. You can't show up for work drunk.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18125054 - 04/17/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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The feds can stop you any time they want.
If they cared, They cant afford to go after my 8 plants, i only care about the local cops , who dont care.
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Safety has nothing to do with it
Why not ? The idea of legal meth doesnt conjure up any thoughts of safety that I can think of. Is it supposed to be disregarded in the name of freedom? Tell me how legalizing it will make walking down the street safer? people will still need money to buy it. Maybe more guns+ drugs + freedom= more better . I could see legal meth making me want to carry a gun everywhere I go, or just not go. Thats actually less freedom to me but...I dont give a fuck about meth addicts freedoms, you deserve to be committed after not sleeping for 4 or 5 days . Which is how long my very first fat line of crystal kept me awake for, shits unreal. At least heroin addicts just go and nod off somewhere, thats wat the dens were for, you take that hit your not leaving, meth addicts are highly motivated to do bad things they dont sit still. At least coke wears off after an hr, crystal meth is a very special case.
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DrumsyStrings

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 122
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18125141 - 04/17/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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If it was about safety then do you honestly think that the gov would keep alcohol and tobacco legal? There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google. And while these extremely harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal, weed which has killed no one ever is still illegal. So do you really think they give a fuck about our safety?
-------------------- i like bongos. i like shpongle. i like mushrooms.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Quote:
DrumsyStrings said: If it was about safety then do you honestly think that the gov would keep alcohol and tobacco legal? There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google. And while these extremely harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal, weed which has killed no one ever is still illegal. So do you really think they give a fuck about our safety?
No, they don't give a fuck about your safety so long as you are still making MONEY!
Alcohol, cigarettes, and coffee are perfect drugs for modern western civilization. One perks you up, one calms you down, and one gives you enough confidence to forget all about the miserable life you lead.
If there was any solid evidence proving that a man could be 10x as efficient on cocaine than by downing a few cups of coffee, then they would have legalized and popularized it YEARS ago.
They prohibited alcohol because people were becoming really shitty at their jobs and they would stop showing up for work. There are pre-prohibition political cartoons depicting pathetic losers heading for the bars while the outstanding members of society went to work on trains or manufacturing steel. Then they brought it back once they decided they had nothing more to lose during the Great Depression.
Drugs are illegal because the possible gains don't outweigh the possible losses on a countrywide scale. Unless you can come up with some sort of flawless, comprehensive plan that will prove BEYOND A REASONABLE FUCKING DOUBT that letting drugs flood the free market will spur economic growth and drastically raise the spirits of our country's citizens, then YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF ARGUMENT AT ALL!
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Quote:
There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google.
Here's a quote from what you wanted me to google. Thanks.
"Heroin, crack and crystal meth were deemed worst for individuals, with alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine worst for society, and alcohol worst overall."
Apparently hard drugs are worse for the individual, but alchohol is worse for scociety because of the volume used by comparison , cause its legal. H and meth are worse for the individual meaning if legal , and the use is as prevalent as alchohol , shit will undooutably be way worse for scociety. You know the taxpayers that don't do meth ,that want no part of it, that keep things going , that's right meth and heroine and jobs don't mix.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut] 1
#18128451 - 04/18/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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You keep babbling about society as if you have no conception of the individual. You are already the Borg. You have not established that there will be more deaths if it is legal. No more hotshots, known purity, no backyard meth lab explosions, no more gang bangers in the drug business, no more people pursued by cops and put in prison at huge societal expense. Did any of these things cross your mind at all?
Just because you can't handle a drug doesn't mean I can't.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18129521 - 04/18/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just because you can't handle a drug doesn't mean I can't.
So you dont get much of this then? or youve never done real dope?
http://www.rehabs.com/explore/meth-before-and-after-drugs/infographic.html#.UXA6tLXlY25
Having it more pure does not make it less damaging to your body, its the opposite really. Glad you can handle it , are you the norm or the exception , do most people handle it? Thats usually the first lie a crystal meth addict tells himself. Im sure these people and people like them would applaud your effort for their individual freedom. How many days without sleep can you go ? The most anyone has told me is 28 strong, and once someone answered "sleep?" all puzzled. My record is 5. At that point hallucinations set in , not the cool mushroom kind either, its more of the whos watching me from the bushes kind. At that point , I deserve a straight jacket. Not freedom.
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no more people pursued by cops and put in prison at huge societal expense
I think we could cut that in half just by legalizing marijuana.
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You have not established that there will be more deaths if it is legal.
No , I established more deadly pills have led more death over the last 13 years. More deadly drugs of all kinds made widley available , dirt cheap as possible, with the attitude watevs your payed to play, will lead to more deaths.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/10/portugal-decriminalisation-drugs-britain_n_2270789.html
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 17 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? (moved) [Re: shimishimiman]
#18130709 - 04/18/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Political Discussion.
Reason: THis is prime Drug Policy Reform material.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? (moved) [Re: Phred]
#18131388 - 04/18/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree, the individual should have the right to do as he/she pleases and as he/she sees fit - but that is a right that we have always had regardless of what the government claims is right and wrong. It is not the right we have as Americans, but as human beings.
What they do, they do because it works. People with literally 0 insight into what really goes on in the Capitol building make wild and paranoid accusations about what is going on around them without even realizing that their conjectural opinions are just that and nothing more - conjectural opinions.
It is your job to watch out for yourself. It is the government's job to watch out for the population at large, and to make sure the breadwinners keep winning more bread.
The ONLY drug that MIGHT receive legalization (or at the very least decriminalization) status is marijuana, and that's only because of how many people use it. It is in high demand all across the board - whereas the other psychedelics and rave drugs are only wanted by a select group of people.
From an economic point of view, legalizing everything is much more irresponsible than it is fruitful.
So shut those fuckin dreams out of your head - it's not going to happen. We no longer live in the age where the agenda of the individual outweighs the agenda of the government. That shit dried up the moment the 18th amendment was penned.
Unless you can come up with a way to destroy the current economic structure of our government, then the free market will never be free and the individual will never be more than a pawn in the hands of those in power. Actually, I am pretty sure the only way to really fuck the economy up is to legalize every drug there is. Only then will people become more infatuated with something other than money.
And that's exactly why they won't be made legal.
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stevearno
Racky-Tack-Quincy-Bone

Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 27
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: ChuangTzu]
#18132735 - 04/18/13 11:20 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: Should drugs be legalized?
certain ones yes .... other ones no
cannabis is ok .... i think joe public can make there own decision with this drug and people can function relativity normal on it
other drugs on the hand ....no .. for the simple reason to restrict supply where ever possible ( so things don't get out of hand )
i think it is everyone's own decision weather and choice to try or have drugs .....but i firmly believe the governments don't look at this way ....
population is a governments commodity ... it is tax base and consumerism .... which generates tax = power and influence to a government ....
if you have half the population strung out on METH going on week benders , and unable to function at work when on it ...then your not going to make your potential tax yield , whilst being eroded by the other aspects of abuse ... drugs WILL NEVER be legal ( bad ones anyway ) , as governments needs to protect there investments ...
as individuals ..most will say they can handle drugs ..... for a large section , they probably can use sparely and for recreation events only .... but for others it's a full time job ..unable to work as there so fucked up..they then create other problems ( i'll let you decide what these are )
it's ALL percentages ... some times the small percentage can cause alot of damage ...firstly there health , social issues , and loss of tax base ... it will always be frowned upon by governments
i personally have always adopted the ripple effect when taking drugs ......
DON'T cause ripples !!!!! keep yourself to yourself and don't fuck with society ..then they have nothing to complain about and no reasoning to disrupt your use
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LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Baltimore/Washington Nebu...
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: stevearno]
#18207762 - 05/03/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Great debate. I have always thought that anything you can grow should be totally legal unregulated and untaxed for personal use and society would adjust. Unfortunately the government sees us as a commodity and wants us pure and unadulterated for their use.
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,485
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18212016 - 05/04/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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So zappa, I'm curious. You speak of the evils of having government dictate what people can and can't put in their bodies. Are you saying that people have a right to privacy as defined in Griswold and Roe?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Baltimore/Washington Nebu...
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: Enlil]
#18212151 - 05/04/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do believe that a individual has the right of privacy and the freedom to do what ever they wish as long as it dose not endanger other peoples lives. What if drugs were never made illegal. Do you believe that we would have morphine doped babies and people taking bong hits on the bench outside the courthouse today!
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,485
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: LBM]
#18212175 - 05/04/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't know what would happen on the bench outside of any given courthouse.
I'm just trying to get an understanding of this alleged "right" to control what you put in your body. What do you think the source of this right is? Do you think you were born with it? Did you get it when you turned 18? At some other age? Did the Constitution give you the right?
I just want to know where this right supposedly starts...then I'd like to figure out the contours of this right.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: Enlil]
#18212302 - 05/04/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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The right comes from people being individuals. I do think that this is a bit off topic but would be happy to participate in a different thread.
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,485
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: LBM]
#18213371 - 05/04/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't see how it's off topic. The argument seems to be that drugs should be legal because people have a right to control what they put in their bodies. I'm just asking where people get that idea...
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Baltimore/Washington Nebu...
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: LBM]
#18213496 - 05/04/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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My last post may have been a little narrow minded and I apologize if I slammed your toe in the door. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "I'm just trying to get an understanding of this alleged "right" to control what you put in your body. What do you think the source of this right is? Do you think you were born with it? Did you get it when you turned 18? At some other age? Did the Constitution give you the right?
I just want to know where this right supposedly starts...then I'd like to figure out the contours of this right."
--------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe the constitution is one of many documents that have attempted to clarify the rights of American people including what you may ingest.It is a birth right and may be debated as freedom of choice.The war of 1861 was the first well known breach of the constitution and it is unclear if we have any rights granted us by the constitution after that conflict. Another is more of a moral issue or simple human right issue.Do I have the right to interfere with another persons private affairs and code of conduct.The current trend is yes as "I can't get a extra large soft drink" type thinking or the case against Griswold,Roe and private life. I hope in part this may answer your question.
At this point in time the legalization of MJ is challenging the out come of the civil war in that states wish there rights back.If the feds do drop MJ from prohibition I do hope that further challenges will be made as to there right to govern at all.
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
Edited by LBM (05/04/13 04:32 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,485
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: LBM]
#18213692 - 05/04/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say that you're not sure if we have any rights under the Constitution after the civil war. The 14th amendment was ratified after, and as a result of, the civil war, and it has greatly expanded American civil rights under the constitution.
I don't see how your states rights/federalism argument plays into the legalization issue. If the federal drug laws were repealed today, Heroin would still be illegal in every state, and weed in most of them.
It does sound like your notion of a right to put whatever you want in your body is based on the griswold right to privacy, and insofar as Griswold is still good law, I'd agree. I do, however, think that griswold was wrongly decided. I also think that society has an interest in keeping its members healthy and productive even if it means reasonably limiting the citizens' autonomy.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: Enlil]
#18214579 - 05/04/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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The reason I state that I'm not sure if we have any constitutional rights after the civil war as the states rights were effectively removed and have been dictated to by the fed in years past.Only in recent history have states begun to challenge federal law in favor for laws the citizens wish . Take as a example Nevada raising the speed limit over the mandated 55mph and of course medical MJ.Many state laws do mimic federal law and the drug laws of years past were put in place by intimidation that is still practiced by the fed.Besides if you were a governor and you believed the reefer madness propaganda would you keep it legal?
I agree that society should be protective of its people for me its to what degree.I do not like being subject to laws dealing with the lowest common denominator in society.
If heroin was moved to a schedule 2 drug it would be in use by Hospice over night MDMA aka (Ecstasy) would be in use in VA hospitals and psychiatrists offices across the country by tomorrow. To sum up my thought the force of the people has encouraged the state to challenge the federal authority over states authority and through that changes in drug policy are happening.
I can't sum up how I feel about recreational street drugs but would be pleased if they were pharmaceutical grade just for safety reasons.Many of these should be schedule 2 as most have either medical or spiritual uses anyhow.
My thoughts have been formed from a lifetime of being witness to the damage done by these ill conceived laws.We need better rehab programs for people that require it and honest truth about drugs and the effect they can have upon you.These measures alone would have a regulatory effect for any thing you may ingest legal or not.
How do you feel if all natural highs were just taken off the books do you think that with what we know today would we would survive.
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
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Zanthius
Mean Alien


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 1,570
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: Based on my findings, prohibition was actually extremely useful for the US as a whole because it decimated the rampant alcoholism and alcohol-related deaths that were occurring during the early parts of the 20th century.
Well.. well... first of all, your statistics might not necessarily reflect reality. When alcohol was illegal alcoholics would keep their alcoholism more secret. Since drug abuse goes more underground when drugs are illegal, statistics showing a decrease in drug abuse can often be somewhat misleading. Criminalization is anyhow usually an extremely primitive way of reacting to a problem. Even if alcohol criminalization had been able to decrease alcoholism, would it necessarily be the only and best way to decrease alcohol abuse? I think it is much better to help alcohol/drug abusers with treatment, and I think people are much more likely to seek treatment if what they are doing is legal. I would for example be scared of seeking treatment if I was addicted to an illegal drug, because then I would need to admit to people that I was doing something illegal. Criminalization just makes things go underground. It is much easier to help alcoholics, prostitutes, and drug abusers if it isn't kept secret underground.
People need to get rid of the primitive "criminalization mindset". Criminalization is like praying. You can't just wish something out of existence, and that is kind of what societies are doing with criminalization. A society might be able to force something out of existence, but that will require an enormous amount of police resources. A society that is trying to force something out of existence will usually just end up wasting a huge amount of police resources without being able to do much with the problem. Living in a police-state should also be somewhat displeasing to people as it reduces personal freedom. It is probably much better to decrease consumption of drugs with taxes rather than with criminalization. Making drugs/alcohol a bit more expensive might also make people use drugs/alcohol a bit less. And some of the revenue from the sale of drugs will then go back to society, rather than to criminal organizations.
Edited by Zanthius (05/14/13 12:59 AM)
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: Zanthius]
#18333102 - 05/28/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zanthius said:
Quote:
shimishimiman said: Based on my findings, prohibition was actually extremely useful for the US as a whole because it decimated the rampant alcoholism and alcohol-related deaths that were occurring during the early parts of the 20th century.
Well.. well... first of all, your statistics might not necessarily reflect reality. When alcohol was illegal alcoholics would keep their alcoholism more secret. Since drug abuse goes more underground when drugs are illegal, statistics showing a decrease in drug abuse can often be somewhat misleading. Criminalization is anyhow usually an extremely primitive way of reacting to a problem. Even if alcohol criminalization had been able to decrease alcoholism, would it necessarily be the only and best way to decrease alcohol abuse? I think it is much better to help alcohol/drug abusers with treatment, and I think people are much more likely to seek treatment if what they are doing is legal. I would for example be scared of seeking treatment if I was addicted to an illegal drug, because then I would need to admit to people that I was doing something illegal. Criminalization just makes things go underground. It is much easier to help alcoholics, prostitutes, and drug abusers if it isn't kept secret underground.
People need to get rid of the primitive "criminalization mindset". Criminalization is like praying. You can't just wish something out of existence, and that is kind of what societies are doing with criminalization. A society might be able to force something out of existence, but that will require an enormous amount of police resources. A society that is trying to force something out of existence will usually just end up wasting a huge amount of police resources without being able to do much with the problem. Living in a police-state should also be somewhat displeasing to people as it reduces personal freedom. It is probably much better to decrease consumption of drugs with taxes rather than with criminalization. Making drugs/alcohol a bit more expensive might also make people use drugs/alcohol a bit less. And some of the revenue from the sale of drugs will then go back to society, rather than to criminal organizations.
FINALLY someone responds with something decent. Congratulations, you have succeeded in making me question my own point.
However, this doesn't change the fact that no matter what the only thing that will cause the government to eliminate the drug laws is if they can make more money as a result of it. Because the executive branch pretty much runs this country with the indirect laws created by the regulatory agencies, there is very little that can be done unless the people of this country are willing to pool together at LEAST 1 billion dollars as compensation for the government jobs that will be destroyed as a result of drug legalization.
Congress and the plural executive do everything that can to keep their jobs, not get shit done. Their primary concern has everything to do with prolonging their time in office for as long as possible and nothing to do with utilizing that time to fix what is fucked.
HOWEVER! It was made obvious to me the other day that despite the fact that our free market is no longer free, with the introduction of .tor and the bitcoin there is in fact another free market that exists on earth: the interbutts. Silk Road is as close and as safe as it's ever gonna get to the most ideal form of drug legalization for the time being. It definitely won't be enough to cure addiction or solve the problem, but if it isn't a start then I don't know what the fuck is.
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