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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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They started executing people in the streets because of how much of a problem the national opium addiction had become.
Are you saying that was some sort of a problem?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized.
I never said it was in the best interest of the public. That is a peripheral question at most.
The federal government has no power to tell anyone what they can or cannot possess or put into their own bodies when nobody else is harmed. Furthermore, it is wrong to use violence and/or the threat of violence to inflict your version of public benefit onto people.
Alcohol consumption may have gone down during prohibition. I don't know if it did or not and it doesn't matter. Crime (actual crime like murder, assault, and robbery--not the "crime" of possessing a liquid) definitely went up due to the greatly increased role of the black market in organized crime. As did infringements on freedom.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: ChuangTzu]
#18119975 - 04/16/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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The criminal organizations that were involved with bootleg alcohol were already involved in illegal activities before they started making moonshine. Prohibition simply created a new market for them, and with the aid of Hollywood and the press criminals just started to make a new name for themselves.
It seems like the only argument anyone has regarding this issue is that it is a matter of justice - the personal freedoms that America is always pushing should include our right to ingest whatever the fuck it is that we want to ingest without the fear of being slammed by the penal system.
But what good would really come from legalizing the drugs? Would we begin to trust in our government more? Would there be some sort of cultural revolution revolving around the overall well being of mankind? Would anything change at all?
Quite frankly, I doubt it. People are already set in their ways - the people who want to get stoned are already getting stoned. The people who don't, don't. Legalizing them would not change a fucking thing. Even the stigma of being a drug user would remain the same.
The only difference is you won't receive federal punishment for using. Are your personal freedoms really worth compromising the integrity of the working machine that is our nation?
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Quote:
shimishimiman said: However, what I asked is not a rhetorical question - I really want to know WHY it is that you think it would be in the best interest of the public for them to be legalized. Do you actually have a genuinely good reason - a reason that you think would justify their legality in a court of law?
I am not in any way shape or form against legalization, I just want to know WHY you think they would be better off being legalized and taxed given the current state of the US.
They should be legalized for many reasons.
The first has already been detailed by many other users. American citizens should have the liberty to do what they want to their own bodies. Its a freedom we should have access to.
The second reason is that the drug war needs to end. One of America's biggest problems is that we have too many people in our prisons and going through our courts and most of them are there for drug offenses. Cops constantly fighting the drug war are being used up as a resource. Also, the criminalization of drugs merely insures that the anyone participating in the drug market is automatically in the crime world. Hence, gang wars over drug turf. Ending the drug war would end a lot of American crime.
We could also then produce our own drugs domestically, where they could be taxed and sold, instead of losing money and other resources as a result of the activities of drug cartels.
Finally, there is a lot of sociological research coming out of Portugal (which recently legalized all drugs) to suggest that it may be beneficial for people who actually have addiction problems to be able to address those problems in the open. Granted, Portugal is a different society/political body than the US, but some of the addiction treatment issues should overlap.
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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carpetmunch
Stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 192
Loc: America
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: gluke bastid] 1
#18120059 - 04/16/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, all drugs should be legalized. Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one. Is the public safer because some drugs are illegal? No, Not with a war on some drugs. The biggest problem though is forcing your code of morality on others. That is simply not OK. I think you are just stirring the pot and trying to get a reaction from the folks here. They are more than a few threads where the pro and cons of drug legalization have been discussed. If you are honestly trying to gather info and form your opinion on this topic you could start there.
-------------------- You gotta do what you gotta do. Sometimes you gotta munch cactus, some times you gotta munch carpet!
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Redpill


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 421
Loc: Lake Wobegon, MN
Last seen: 7 years, 25 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18120206 - 04/16/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one.
Do you think alcohol, tobacco and caffeine would be as available as they are if they were illegal? I honestly think every illegal drug is less available than it would be if there were no restrictions.
Let's look at cigarettes, if they were illegal you would not be able to buy them at every gas station and grocery store in America. You would have to go to a dealer. That's what I would call less available.
And how about LSD, you think if it was legal it would be as hard to find as it is now? To say that drug laws don't restrict access is just plain ridiculous.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
More lethal overdoses. In the last 13 years prescription pain killers have come to account for account for about 3/4 of all drug overdose deaths.It exceeds traffic accident fatalities. This is why theres a push to limit how its prescribed . The more doctors give away the more people die. Its pretty simple. But ya know freedom and all that.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18120764 - 04/16/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: Yes, all drugs should be legalized. Can you name one drug that is less available because some dipstick "law makers" made it illegal? I can't think one one. Is the public safer because some drugs are illegal? No, Not with a war on some drugs. The biggest problem though is forcing your code of morality on others. That is simply not OK. I think you are just stirring the pot and trying to get a reaction from the folks here. They are more than a few threads where the pro and cons of drug legalization have been discussed. If you are honestly trying to gather info and form your opinion on this topic you could start there.
So what if I'm stirring the pot? I have read some of the other threads about this topic, and none of them have any evidence that can prove without a reasonable doubt that legalizing drugs would be more beneficial to America than leaving everything the way it is. Our idea of justice, being that people should be able to whatever the hell they want so long as they aren't hurting anyone else, is not THEIR idea of justice. Their idea of justice is making sure the sober and the hard working American maintains social dominance, and the stoned hippies go to Europe where they belong.
I am telling you, the only time there will ever be any sort of excuse WHATSOEVER for congress to deem their legalization to be of any real benefit is if our economy crashes and burns once again. That's exactly what they did with alcohol, and I am certain that is the only way.
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DrumsyStrings

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 122
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18120779 - 04/16/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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What makes you think overdoses would go up if they were to become legal? I think that with proper education about these drugs instead of bullshit government propaganda we would see a decrease in detrimental drug use. I don't need to be told what is right or wrong by the gov. If all drugs were made legal it's not like I'm gonna go out and buy some heroin. And if some idiot decides to do heroin just because the gov made it legal then good fucking let em. It's their own decision not the governments and they can kill themselves slowly if they feel the need.
-------------------- i like bongos. i like shpongle. i like mushrooms.
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carpetmunch
Stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 192
Loc: America
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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You might read about what Portugal has done regarding drugs. I don't see why the benefits seen there could not be seen here if similar steps were taken.
Do you think what is being done here in the USA is really working?
-------------------- You gotta do what you gotta do. Sometimes you gotta munch cactus, some times you gotta munch carpet!
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Redpill


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 421
Loc: Lake Wobegon, MN
Last seen: 7 years, 25 days
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: carpetmunch]
#18121208 - 04/16/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
carpetmunch said: You might read about what Portugal has done regarding drugs. I don't see why the benefits seen there could not be seen here if similar steps were taken.
Do you think what is being done here in the USA is really working?
What portugal did is essentially what I suggested earlier. They didn't legalize the drugs, they decriminalized them. There is a Huge difference between those things.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18122655 - 04/17/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
Also...why shouldn't we legalize drugs? What is the drawback of legalizing most, if not all, drugs at this point?
More lethal overdoses. In the last 13 years prescription pain killers have come to account for account for about 3/4 of all drug overdose deaths.It exceeds traffic accident fatalities. This is why theres a push to limit how its prescribed . The more doctors give away the more people die. Its pretty simple. But ya know freedom and all that.
This is complete bullshit.
1. Doctors do not "give away" prescription drugs 2. There were 37,423 traffic fatalities in 2008 Painkillers "were involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers. 3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal. 4. You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity. If all drugs are legal there will be more people growing pot in their yards. Growing pot in your yard does not require a dangerous explosive toxic lab. It is also cheap. A meth lab, even clandestine, is not cheap. Legalizing meth will drive out all the illegal meth labs because they can't compete.
5. You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18122797 - 04/17/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is complete bullshit.
No your joke of an attitude is.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.53UGlpFK.dpbs
Look at the chart on this. Drug overdoses all combined are are more than traffic accidents.
Quote:
involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers.
100% beside the point. The point is more availibility leads to more overdoses. This will be very true for H. Make it widley available youll see more overdose fatalitys.
Quote:
3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal.
Ca says its legal. Whos the nanny state proabitionist here? You want them to bust me or something? Dont believe in states rights? What the fuck are you saying. Spitefull jealousy maybe?
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You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity.
No thats not what I said at all . Not at all. You made a moronic meth will be safer if we regulate it with bullshit zoning laws no one will care about statement and then went on to lay a giant anchorline of bullshit on me about how state regulated meth will be cheaper than made at home for yourself meth. I brought up growing weed so you could tell me how going out to a store and buying it would make it cheaper. still waiting for an answer.
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You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
See your number 3. Your a mean old man. If only you could make viagra at home for free, huh.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/19/news/la-heb-drug-overdoses-increase-20130219
more = more dead.This is the sad case for a few dangerous drugs. The nanny state hasnt made it harder for people to get pain pills doctors overprescribing them for profit have.
"a Times investigation last year that showed a surge in painkiller prescriptions in California and across the nation has had fatal consequences."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18123688 - 04/17/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
This is complete bullshit.
No your joke of an attitude is.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.53UGlpFK.dpbs
Look at the chart on this. Drug overdoses all combined are are more than traffic accidents.
You said prescription painkillers and post a chart that notes all drug overdose?. Try to keep up.Quote:
Quote:
involved in 14,800 overdose deaths in 2008". How many of those were suicides or irrelevant to the painkiller is not known. I would like to thank all the nanny state cunts for making it harder for people in pain to get painkillers.
100% beside the point. The point is more availibility leads to more overdoses. This will be very true for H. Make it widley available youll see more overdose fatalitys.
Make it a standard strength and you'll see less of them. But so what, Nanny? It isn't yours to decide.Quote:
Quote:
3. You do not have a legal marijuana garden. The federal government says it is illegal.
Ca says its legal. Whos the nanny state proabitionist here? You want them to bust me or something? Dont believe in states rights? What the fuck are you saying. Spitefull jealousy maybe?
I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal. Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.Quote:
Quote:
You made a moronic statement about the danger of local meth labs and equated them to your garden of stupidity.
No thats not what I said at all . Not at all. You made a moronic meth will be safer if we regulate it with bullshit zoning laws no one will care about statement and then went on to lay a giant anchorline of bullshit on me about how state regulated meth will be cheaper than made at home for yourself meth. I brought up growing weed so you could tell me how going out to a store and buying it would make it cheaper. still waiting for an answer.
It costs money to make a meth lab. Your stupid illegal pot garden is irrelevant. Any jackass can throw weed seeds on the ground. And they can't zone you out for industrial activity. The meth cowboys will be out of business.Quote:
Quote:
You are a nanny state prohibitionist no better than any other government thug who wants to curtail personal freedom in the name of societal benefit. Thug.
See your number 3. Your a mean old man. If only you could make viagra at home for free, huh.
Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works? Quote:
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/19/news/la-heb-drug-overdoses-increase-20130219
more = more dead.This is the sad case for a few dangerous drugs. The nanny state hasnt made it harder for people to get pain pills doctors overprescribing them for profit have.
"a Times investigation last year that showed a surge in painkiller prescriptions in California and across the nation has had fatal consequences."
They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18124453 - 04/17/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works?
Thats why i said too bad you cant.
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I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal.
I can go to 10 diff stores right now and buy all the weed I want, plus like 10 diff types of hash,. Its been that way for a while. I cant have a plantation on public land ,but I can have some plants in my yard. No one is stopping me. local cops dont care . legal enough, yet not enough. my point is making my own is cheaper and meth is very easy to make , actually most jackasses who are too stupid to know better after not sleeping for 2 weeks can do it. Or at least get to the blowing yourself up part.
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It costs money to make a meth lab.
not that much money and it doesnt mean they wont do it. Your determining how its made remember. Plus tweaking can make you go phycotic its not just about the lab.
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They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
So you agree , more availability =more dead. I already know you would take satisfaction in seeing losers die.
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Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.
Ok , then explain to me how crystal meth or H is just as safe as marijuana. Explain to me the equality. Are we going to stop drug testing too?Will it be legal to come to work high on meth? Its not like you go to sleep and it wears off the next day.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18124761 - 04/17/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
Why would I do that? It would cost me hundreds of thousands to build a lab and the pills from real pharmaceutical labs are cheap as fuck. See how that works?
Thats why i said too bad you cant.
Do you not know the difference between what you can do and what you would want to do. I can poke a fork in my eye. But I don't want to. Did you also not know we were discussing the condition should it be legalized?Quote:
Quote:
I ams aying that you are lying about your legal marijuana garden. It isn't legal.
I can go to 10 diff stores right now and buy all the weed I want, plus like 10 diff types of hash,. Its been that way for a while. I cant have a plantation on public land ,but I can have some plants in my yard. No one is stopping me. local cops dont care . legal enough, yet not enough. my point is making my own is cheaper and meth is very easy to make , actually most jackasses who are too stupid to know better after not sleeping for 2 weeks can do it. Or at least get to the blowing yourself up part.
The feds can stop you any time they want. See the above mentioned difference between what you can do and what you want to do is?Quote:
Quote:
It costs money to make a meth lab.
not that much money and it doesnt mean they wont do it. Your determining how its made remember. Plus tweaking can make you go phycotic its not just about the lab.
I'm not determining how it's made at all. I use zoning laws to confine the manufacture of meth to an industrial zoned area. The market will put the homecook out of business.
Yes. I've heard some assholes seem to have trouble with the drug. What does that have to do with me? I never had any problem with it.Quote:
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They paid their money and they took their chances. Nanny.
So you agree , more availability =more dead. I already know you would take satisfaction in seeing losers die.
Can't say that it would increase deaths and I take no satisfaction in the death of a junkie. I think they're loser assholes but it doesn't please meQuote:
Quote:
Unlike you I don't think any drugs should be illegal not just my favorites because I am not a selfish busybody. "My drug is cool but yours is too dangerous." Fascist.
Ok , then explain to me how crystal meth or H is just as safe as marijuana. Explain to me the equality. Are we going to stop drug testing too?Will it be legal to come to work high on meth? Its not like you go to sleep and it wears off the next day.
Safety has nothing to do with it nor does showing up for work high. You can't show up for work drunk.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18125054 - 04/17/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The feds can stop you any time they want.
If they cared, They cant afford to go after my 8 plants, i only care about the local cops , who dont care.
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Safety has nothing to do with it
Why not ? The idea of legal meth doesnt conjure up any thoughts of safety that I can think of. Is it supposed to be disregarded in the name of freedom? Tell me how legalizing it will make walking down the street safer? people will still need money to buy it. Maybe more guns+ drugs + freedom= more better . I could see legal meth making me want to carry a gun everywhere I go, or just not go. Thats actually less freedom to me but...I dont give a fuck about meth addicts freedoms, you deserve to be committed after not sleeping for 4 or 5 days . Which is how long my very first fat line of crystal kept me awake for, shits unreal. At least heroin addicts just go and nod off somewhere, thats wat the dens were for, you take that hit your not leaving, meth addicts are highly motivated to do bad things they dont sit still. At least coke wears off after an hr, crystal meth is a very special case.
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DrumsyStrings

Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 122
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Should drugs be legalized? [Re: psilynut]
#18125141 - 04/17/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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If it was about safety then do you honestly think that the gov would keep alcohol and tobacco legal? There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google. And while these extremely harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal, weed which has killed no one ever is still illegal. So do you really think they give a fuck about our safety?
-------------------- i like bongos. i like shpongle. i like mushrooms.
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shimishimiman
Jaded Optimist


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 469
Loc: Shmexas, Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Quote:
DrumsyStrings said: If it was about safety then do you honestly think that the gov would keep alcohol and tobacco legal? There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google. And while these extremely harmful drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal, weed which has killed no one ever is still illegal. So do you really think they give a fuck about our safety?
No, they don't give a fuck about your safety so long as you are still making MONEY!
Alcohol, cigarettes, and coffee are perfect drugs for modern western civilization. One perks you up, one calms you down, and one gives you enough confidence to forget all about the miserable life you lead.
If there was any solid evidence proving that a man could be 10x as efficient on cocaine than by downing a few cups of coffee, then they would have legalized and popularized it YEARS ago.
They prohibited alcohol because people were becoming really shitty at their jobs and they would stop showing up for work. There are pre-prohibition political cartoons depicting pathetic losers heading for the bars while the outstanding members of society went to work on trains or manufacturing steel. Then they brought it back once they decided they had nothing more to lose during the Great Depression.
Drugs are illegal because the possible gains don't outweigh the possible losses on a countrywide scale. Unless you can come up with some sort of flawless, comprehensive plan that will prove BEYOND A REASONABLE FUCKING DOUBT that letting drugs flood the free market will spur economic growth and drastically raise the spirits of our country's citizens, then YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF ARGUMENT AT ALL!
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psilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Quote:
There are a bunch of studies that came out recently claiming alcohol abuse was more harmful than heroin or cocaine. Just type in heroin vs alcohol safety into google.
Here's a quote from what you wanted me to google. Thanks.
"Heroin, crack and crystal meth were deemed worst for individuals, with alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine worst for society, and alcohol worst overall."
Apparently hard drugs are worse for the individual, but alchohol is worse for scociety because of the volume used by comparison , cause its legal. H and meth are worse for the individual meaning if legal , and the use is as prevalent as alchohol , shit will undooutably be way worse for scociety. You know the taxpayers that don't do meth ,that want no part of it, that keep things going , that's right meth and heroine and jobs don't mix.
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