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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #18106741 - 04/14/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


all I'm doing, even though it escapes you, is showing that there's much more
to this story than meets the eye, if you choose to remain blind and ignorant
then you feel free to do so, no one here will stop you, if not then please
feel free to seek out the information you choose to believe.




What, percisely, are you showing that's more than meets the eye?


Stalinist freakshow states always have an upper class that has access to things like coca cola and electricity, and so forth.  I'm not sure what the point of contention is here.


You seem to take a quizzically apologetic stance towards North Korea- it almost seems contrarian for its own sake.  i.e. your criticism of the ROK/US in running military drills that resulted in teh shelling of the ROK islands without any particular argument as to how the waters were the north's or why anyone should stay out of them merely because the north lay a baseless claim to them.


Quote:



what can you say that you know on the topic, what the media tells you, maybe less





What's the point of such observations? Defined broadly, everything one knows on a subject such as this is from what the media tells you- so what?  That doesn't make it more or less reliable.

In the case of DPRK, much of the public information about life in Pyongyang (and to a lesser extent the more remote areas) comes from tourists/workers who report on the situation without much traditional media control.  When independant lines of evidence point in the same direction, its not unwise to take notice.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: johnm214]
    #18107122 - 04/14/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


all I'm doing, even though it escapes you, is showing that there's much more
to this story than meets the eye, if you choose to remain blind and ignorant
then you feel free to do so, no one here will stop you, if not then please
feel free to seek out the information you choose to believe.




What, percisely, are you showing that's more than meets the eye?




how about you show us where things are exactly as the are shown in the western media

what's more than meets the eye, this is yet another created enemy, we
provided this 'axis of evil' with nuclear technology in the 70s, we've
funded him into at the least, the first term of the latest bush with
billions of dollars to continue to develop this nuclear technology while
calling north korea the 'enemy' telling them not to develop nuclear
technology that we've given them, thumping our chests about them having
nukes while allowing countried like india and pakistan to have them and
even putting nukes into dozens of nations




Quote:

Stalinist freakshow states always have an upper class that has access to things like coca cola and electricity, and so forth.  I'm not sure what the point of contention is here.




and who says the other classes do not, not having the money to buy doesnt mean they dont have access, it simply means they're broke


Quote:

You seem to take a quizzically apologetic stance towards North Korea- it almost seems contrarian for its own sake.  i.e. your criticism of the ROK/US in running military drills that resulted in teh shelling of the ROK islands without any particular argument as to how the waters were the north's or why anyone should stay out of them merely because the north lay a baseless claim to them.




as opposed to your own apologist stance with the US, what's it matter if
north korea does exactly what south korea and the US are doing, who the fuck
cares of north korea attacks south korea or vice versa, I certainly dont, let
them have at it and end the shit once and for all


I dont give a rats ass if NK develops an effective nuke, nor do I care if
Iran has one, Iran's 'enemy' has nukes, souh korea has hosted US nukes just
as several other countries have including an incident a few years ago in
which the US and russia were again at odds over nukes being placed in
countries that border the russian federation... yes margret, we play that
game too


Quote:

Quote:


what can you say that you know on the topic, what the media tells you, maybe less





What's the point of such observations? Defined broadly, everything one knows on a subject such as this is from what the media tells you- so what?  That doesn't make it more or less reliable.




I thought it was fairly obvious as to what the point was



Quote:

In the case of DPRK, much of the public information about life in Pyongyang (and to a lesser extent the more remote areas) comes from tourists/workers who report on the situation without much traditional media control.  When independant lines of evidence point in the same direction, its not unwise to take notice.





the media and governments presents one story, tourists present a different
one, just because there's a few similarities in the stories it doesnt mean
either or the combination of them all give you the whole story, when much of
the independent evidence shows that we're being fed lies and half truths it's
also unwise not to take notice

the evidence in the OPs video suggests a girl was foliage home for the
rabbits she was raising, a good source of meat, easy to raise and they
breed readily, so yeah... lines of evidence

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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: mpd]
    #18112284 - 04/15/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
Quote:

Cannashroom said:
Ok, a lot more people die of hunger in other countries too.  About 15 million children die every year due to starvation.  The world has more than enough food to feed them.  But they don't have enough money to buy it.  So because some fucking greedy rich men want to see their bank account grow hundred of millions don't have food to eat.

The Kim family is not doing good things, I agree.  But you're ignoring the problem at home.

It is not that people in the US are starving, but a lot of other places are starving due to the US policies.  Like Haiti:

Subsidizing starvation: How American tax dollars are keeping Arkansas rice growers fat on the farm and starving millions of Haitians

Quote:

While this prospect is a bleak one for the domestic rice industry, others view it as a long-overdue change. For years, organizations from Oxfam to the Cato Institute have harshly criticized American rice subsidies for enabling the United States to dump its product in developing countries at depressed prices, making it difficult for small-scale farmers to export their own rice or compete in their local markets. As these critics see it, taxpayer dollars have inflated America's competitiveness in global markets while destroying agriculture sectors in countries from Ghana to Indonesia.

Perhaps the most devastating example of this trade distortion, critics say, is Haiti. Since 1995, when it dropped its import tariffs on rice from 50 to 3 percent as part of a structural adjustment program run by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank, Haiti has steadily increased its imports of rice from the north. Today it is the fifth-largest importer of American rice in the world despite having a population of just 10 million. Much of Haiti's rice comes from Arkansas; each year, Riceland Foods and Producers Rice Mill send millions of tons of rice down the Mississippi river on barges to New Orleans, where the rice is loaded onto container ships, taken to port in Haiti, and packaged as popular brands such as Tchaco or Mega Rice. Haiti today imports over 80 percent of its rice from the United States, making it a critical market for farmers in Arkansas.




The US decided Haiti should buy their cheap subsidized rice because it is cheaper than what they can produce themselves.  As a result all the rice farmers in Haiti went out of business, and can no longer afford any food at all.

Global agribusiness is killing millions of people a year.  Why do you focus on a tiny communist country?  Sure things in NK suck balls, but they are not better for billions of other people living in the "superior" capitalist world.

Mr. Kim is not a good guy, but he is causing a lot less suffering than the real masters of our western world...


Or this...

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html

Quote:

As many as 576,000 Iraqi children may have died since the end of the Persian Gulf war because of economic sanctions imposed by the Security Council, according to two scientists who surveyed the country for the Food and Agriculture Organization.

The study also found steeply rising malnutrition among the young, suggesting that more children will be at risk in the coming years. The results of the survey will appear on Friday in The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Association.




Our leaders in the "civilized world" don't like the Iraqi leaders so they impose sanctions.  These sanctions end up killing millions of innocent children through starvation.

That is probably many fold more than have been killed by the North Koreans.

The US gov is starving 100x more children every day with their economic and political policies.  Wake the fuck up...




You wake the fuck up.  Coming in here posting a bunch of shit.  If you hate the U.S. so much Junior, why not man up like a big boy and get the fuck out?  You got the courage of your convictions don't you?  GTFO and don't wait.  Renounce your citizenship and go to North Korea where you can be with your equally stupid brethren.




I don't live in the US...So, done with that.

And how are FACTS a bunch of shit?  There is factual evidence that US policies are leading to mass starvation and poverty.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: Cannashroom]
    #18112915 - 04/15/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

actually it's not, it's because of these subsidized rice shipments that far
more hatians arent starving since the cultivation of rice in haiti has been
dwindling since long before the program started, you cant possibly look deeper
than what some website that's carrying the same bullshit story as a hundred
other sites in which the original author decided not to examine the policies of
the Duvalier government in haiti

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Offlinehidenseek1
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Registered: 12/22/12
Posts: 5,423
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Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18112987 - 04/15/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

i thought hatians had zombies slaves to do all their work?

seriously though, why is haiti economy worse then dominican republic, when their on the same island?


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18113107 - 04/15/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hidenseek1 said:
i thought hatians had zombies slaves to do all their work?




lol... zombie labor

Quote:

seriously though, why is haiti economy worse then dominican republic, when their on the same island?




different governmental policies

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18113114 - 04/15/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


all I'm doing, even though it escapes you, is showing that there's much more
to this story than meets the eye, if you choose to remain blind and ignorant
then you feel free to do so, no one here will stop you, if not then please
feel free to seek out the information you choose to believe.




What, percisely, are you showing that's more than meets the eye?




how about you show us where things are exactly as the are shown in the western media





Nope.  I haven't claimed that they are and don't in fact hold this position.  Not sure what 'western' has to do with it, though.  Plenty of eastern states are alarmed at the dingbats in DPRK and likely have similar articles as the US does running in their papers.

Quote:



what's more than meets the eye, this is yet another created enemy, we
provided this 'axis of evil' with nuclear technology in the 70s, we've
funded him into at the least, the first term of the latest bush with
billions of dollars to continue to develop this nuclear technology while
calling north korea the 'enemy' telling them not to develop nuclear
technology that we've given them, thumping our chests about them having
nukes while allowing countried like india and pakistan to have them and
even putting nukes into dozens of nations




k?

There have been many problems in the past, that has nothing to do with whether or not DPRK is a cesspool of crappiness now.

I'm sure your aware of the differences between india/pakistan and their little horror show and the DPRK, namely the importance of those states to the US's foreign policy goals and the DPRK's relative isolationism and being only a military issue and sometimes pawn of larger powers.

If your arguing there's not a consistant treatment of nuclear states, I'll agree, but again fail to see the relevance to this discussion.  Whatever the standard is, North Korea is rightly regarded as a snake nest oppressing its people and threatening the surrounding states.






Quote:

Quote:

Stalinist freakshow states always have an upper class that has access to things like coca cola and electricity, and so forth.  I'm not sure what the point of contention is here.




and who says the other classes do not, not having the money to buy doesnt mean they dont have access, it simply means they're broke





I'm not drawing the distinction.  By all accounts the black market in DPRK is well developed and has been somewhat tolerated as a neccessar means to make up for the inefficiencies of the state.  If you count illegal availability of goods as 'available', fine, but this does not contradict the class distinction I was making.  Whether its privledge or economic factors, there is a tier above which you can get particular items in Stalinist states that is largely denied the rest of the population. 


Quote:


Quote:

You seem to take a quizzically apologetic stance towards North Korea- it almost seems contrarian for its own sake.  i.e. your criticism of the ROK/US in running military drills that resulted in teh shelling of the ROK islands without any particular argument as to how the waters were the north's or why anyone should stay out of them merely because the north lay a baseless claim to them.




as opposed to your own apologist stance with the US,





Yes, the difference being I'm right and the DPRK was wrong.

Quote:


what's it matter if
north korea does exactly what south korea and the US are doing, who the fuck
cares of north korea attacks south korea or vice versa, I certainly dont, let
them have at it and end the shit once and for all





They didn't do what ROK/US did.  They fired on undisputedly ROK territory in response to the shelling of waters the DPRK claimed to possess but had neither de jure nor de facto sovereignty over.  The treaty contained no suggestion that DPRK had those waters at all- the whole thing was absurd.

Part of the reason the DPRK hasn't been able to get soveriegnty is becuase the ROK/DPRK continue to hold military excercised in that region.  Your criticism and claim of parity is silly: DPRK was obviously wrong.


Quote:

I dont give a rats ass if NK develops an effective nuke, nor do I care if
Iran has one, Iran's 'enemy' has nukes, souh korea has hosted US nukes just
as several other countries have including an incident a few years ago in
which the US and russia were again at odds over nukes being placed in
countries that border the russian federation... yes margret, we play that
game too





I'm not saying DPRK is wrong for wanting to develope nukes, I'm saying they're wrong for being aggressive, totalitarian, assholes and the nuke question just makes that more of an issue.

Quote:

Quote:




What's the point of such observations? Defined broadly, everything one knows on a subject such as this is from what the media tells you- so what?  That doesn't make it more or less reliable.




I thought it was fairly obvious as to what the point was







No, it wasn't.  Its a pointless observation.  We all get our information from some medium, and even independant reports are filtered through such in most cases.  This lack of confidence is a point for neither side, and its presumptuous of you to attribute people's views to media bias rather than careful consideration of the issue.



Quote:

the evidence in the OPs video suggests a girl was foliage home for the
rabbits she was raising, a good source of meat, easy to raise and they
breed readily, so yeah... lines of evidence





I agree those videos aren't particularly useful for the reasons you suggest- I wasn't depending the interpretation of that video.  The only people who are putting out videos from everyday people in the DPRK are anti-regime activists who try to portray the regime in a harsh light- hence, their interpretations cannot be trusted any more than the regime's videos which show everybody well fed and throwing block parties.

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Offlinemudbutt
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: johnm214]
    #18113127 - 04/15/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

It sucks i cant see the video..when i tried to watch it it said it was taken down due to copyright infringement.....somebody don't want people to see the truth...Hmmmmm :strokebeard:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Starving North Korean Girl Looking For Grass To Eat [Re: johnm214]
    #18113139 - 04/15/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I'm sure your aware of the differences between india/pakistan and their little horror show and the DPRK, namely the importance of those states to the US's foreign policy goals and the DPRK's relative isolationism and being only a military issue and sometimes pawn of larger powers.




why yes, the US wants to use pakistan and india for cheap labor and goods,
since we get nothing from NK  or Iran we'll continue to badmouth them

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