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Offlinecli_hlt
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Breeding towards higher temperatures
    #18111412 - 04/15/13 02:55 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Hello to all mushroom experts!

I'm trying to grow various gourmet and medicinal mushrooms indoors, and I'm struggling with species selection.

Most native species here in Central Europe like lower-than-room temperatures. There are some tropical species that grow well around room temperatures (such as the pink oyster, and several strains of various other oysters, and of course cubes). Sometimes these species are hard to come by and/or expensive (since they ship from some distant county), or not for everyday consumption (like cubes :wink: ).

I'd really like to hear some info on how to select strains that are more tolerant to higher temperatures.

Is it possible for a micro scale grower to noticeably change the optimal temperature range of a strain by selective breeding or other method?

(I'm not looking for vendors of tropical or otherwise room temperature tolerant strains, I already found a few. Since mushroom growing is my hobby, I'd like to learn about the breeding process.)

Thank you in advance.

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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: cli_hlt]
    #18111483 - 04/15/13 03:58 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Simply go for Cubes for higher temps (if you live on east coast), for west Coast go for some P. Alennii or other strain thats native to west coast and grows on wood chips in colder conditions :laugh: 

Personally I am doing cubers now and will go with cold species in winter.  Although it doesn't matter cuz I usually got heaters in winter.


--------------------
"Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich." :headbanger:
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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: boneynerd]
    #18111511 - 04/15/13 04:24 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I'm in Central Europe. Cubes are growing very well, now I'd like to grow some gourmet mushrooms.

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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: cli_hlt]
    #18111984 - 04/15/13 09:11 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

straw mushrooms and calocybe indica (see the 'giant fruits thread in the gourmet forum right now) won't tolerate cool temperatures, if I recall correctly.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: drake89]
    #18116072 - 04/15/13 10:58 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Is it possible for a micro scale grower to noticeably change the optimal temperature range of a strain by selective breeding or other method?




Not without the proper germplasm (genetic material).  To do any selective breeding you need variation, so you won't be able accomplish much with only one strain.

Even crossing two cold-loving strains can give you enough variation to select for a higher temp strain.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: fastfred]
    #18116601 - 04/16/13 01:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Good point.

Multispore cultures originating from a single strain wouldn't suffice?

I know it's still the same set of genes, but it'd allow mutations.

Does anyone know how it's done in commercial labs?

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: cli_hlt]
    #18121905 - 04/17/13 02:21 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Multispore cultures originating from a single strain wouldn't suffice?




This is a contradiction of terms.

I think you dont fully understand what a "strain" is.

A "strain" as sold by a vendor, is an incorrect term. The name a vendor slaps on a print or syringe is really pretty irrelevant. When dealing with MS there are hundreds or thousands of possible genetic combinations.  A true strain is the joining of 2 monokaryons, forming a dikaryon. Basically an isolate.

You are either working with an isolate, or you are working with MS. As far as I know, you cant work with both and still call it a pure culture. Im sure there are some exceptions if you are dealing with anastamosis.

I think a better term than "strain" when dealing with vendor MS prints and syringes is "variety". When you have a specific "variety" of spores, you are dealing with a dominant set of genes. And over generations, you can slightly influence those genes toward a specific set of conditions. (But within the normal parameters for that species). Basically you would be selectively breeding, for specific conditions.

With all of that aside. Im still curious as to how Stamets, got Oysters to eat Petroleum waste.

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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #18122131 - 04/17/13 04:36 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

sounds like advanced mycology to me :laugh:

:whatwhatwhat:


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"Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich." :headbanger:
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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: boneynerd]
    #18122211 - 04/17/13 05:18 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sounds like advanced mycology to me




Not that advanced.

If you can chuck out that whole vendor "strain" business. You'll be ahead of the game. Fuck all the advertising BS and focus on the reality.

Spores offer billions of genetic variations. Each MS mating results in something uniquely individual.

The question then becomes: How individual do we need to get?

For the average cultivator, mediocre is good enough for their purposes. And mediocre is nothing to be looked down upon in the cultivation of active species.

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InvisibleSatanschild
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #18124049 - 04/17/13 01:33 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

The method fastfred is proposing is to simply select the best fruiter at certain temperatures and then clone(isolate) & tag?

All in all it doesn't sound too advanced, but what would be the best way to execute this?
PF tek with small jars and spores(ofcourse)?

But I have no idea if one spore print could give you enough diversity.

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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: Satanschild]
    #18127714 - 04/18/13 01:41 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

When dealing with MS there are hundreds or thousands of possible genetic combinations.

If you can chuck out that whole vendor "strain" business. You'll be ahead of the game. Fuck all the advertising BS and focus on the reality.

Spores offer billions of genetic variations. Each MS mating results in something uniquely individual.




When you isolate a wild strain you usually label it with the location it was found.  Eventually it gets named something else when it doesn't make sense to refer to it like a wild isolate.  Sure, there's lots of random who knows what strains out there.  But in the end they do have amongst them the genetic variability you'd expect from geographically distant specimens of a species.

MS will not give you any real genetic diversity.  These are strains that have been inbred for 1,000's of generations.  A single strain MS mating is a sibling cross.  You can't get any real variation out of highly inbred brother-sister matings like this.

Evolution requires variation and selective pressure. That's genetics 101.

If you don't have a certain gene in your genepool, for a trait/enzyme/whatever, you just don't have it and there's no other way to acquire it other than outcrossing.  Some special enzyme isn't just going to magically pop up out of nowhere.

When you change the conditions on an inbred strain all you're doing is weeding out the genes that are selected against.  Without new material you just can't get any new genes or even enough variation to do anything with.


-FF

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: fastfred]
    #18127727 - 04/18/13 01:50 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

All in all it doesn't sound too advanced, but what would be the best way to execute this?




Without getting pretty advanced your best bet is to mix the spores and shake well.  A drop of surfactant should help break up the spores for better chances.  Most people use "JetDry" dishwasher rinse agent.

Then just apply your selective pressure, the heat, as strongly as you can while still getting decent growth.

With any luck a pair of spores will cross and be more heat tolerant than either parental strain.  Inbreed the fruits of those until the trait is fixed and you get consistent results.  If you're really serious keep repeating this with new strains until you think you've got all the good heat tolerant genes out there.  Then you can name your own strain and put it out there.


-FF

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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: fastfred]
    #18127836 - 04/18/13 02:43 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

im sure you would have your own miniature style Darwin experiment.. if your genetics playout then through natural selection and the process of human elimination then theoretically..

you could breed toward a specific temperature.. atleast thats what i would think :laugh:


--------------------
"Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich." :headbanger:
-SpitballJediS

"your a female, no one woulda cared you were naked,hell probably made someone's day, but I pull my balls out on a bus and im the bad guy.."
-Bishlap

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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Breeding towards higher temperatures [Re: boneynerd]
    #18128113 - 04/18/13 06:14 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the pointers people! I'll do a bit more research on this topic.

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