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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! 8
#18093959 - 04/11/13 07:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey peeps! In this post I will be expounding upon the general philosophy of a mushroom fruiting chamber (FC), the concept and function of today's common approaches, and presenting one of many examples of FC theory application towards constructing a most effective mushroom fruiting environment.
FC Philosophy
There are two main aspects to a mushroom fruiting chamber - fresh air exchange and humidity. Though the high humidity is necessary to keep substrates hydrated, air exchange is more important for initiating mushroom fruiting and supporting hi yield.
Reaching and maintaining appropriate high humidity is easy. Facilitating or forcing the exchange of air is almost just as easy. Developing a perfect balance of the two is a different matter. The goal with our chamber design is to retain 90-100% RH while avoiding too-great of CO2 buildup.
As you retain humidity, you (1) Reduce moisture loss from mushroom substrates, usually a plus (2) Retain CO2 that the fungi 'breathe out' - Low CO2 levels are called for. (3) Retain heat that the fungi produce. This may become a problem for cool-weather species, or by putting a cap on humidity and both allowing & expediting evaporation from substrates
As you increase your airflow, you (1) flush out CO2 buildup, increasing mycelium metabolism and stimulating it to fruit (2) decrease your humidity (3) reduce the ease of increasing humidity (4) increase the amount of water involved, both for the FC and substrates (5) Flush out excess heat
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Some species are more tolerant of hi-CO2 than others. Examples from most to least CO2-tolerant are Cubensis, Shiitake, Galindoi, Panaeolus, Oysters For that reason, Cubensis can grow prolifically and properly in an environment that would stifle proper fruiting for Oysters. If you understand the potential approaches to FC dynamics you are capable of designing an approach however you like.
These are the main avenues of approaching those dynamics, related here to common mushroom chamber designs.
PASSIVE AIR EXCHANGE is allowed by designing a chamber in a fashion that humidity and heat cause convection in the tub enough to keep CO2 levels from building up too high. The "shotgun" fruiting chamber (SGFC) has holes in all sides with moist perlite in the bottom; Mushroom substrates above produce heat and humidity which gets air flowing up and out, bringing air in thru the perlite in the bottom which is humidified by the perlite's moisture, and in turn that humidified air continues the motion up and out. For this reason it is also a passive humification chamber. "Monotubs" in still-air rooms will develop heat that causes convection forcing warm and CO2-filled gas out, particularly out the top, and cool outside air drops in thru the poly-fil holes. Very light stuffing is needed here or not enough circulation will occur, which is very likely due to the hi production of CO2 from their large substrates. Many greenhouses are made using open flaps, or with slits cut in the sides, for some gradual air mixture.
ACTIVE AIR EXCHANGE is made by use of fans, either directly or in a "cool mist" humidifier, and done when passive air exchange methods would not disperse enough CO2. Fans quickly and effectively move the air thru the chamber, but result in an immediate plummet in humidity. "Cool mist" humidifiers use fans to move air, but paired with an "impeller" also make them an active humidification method, causing not plummet in humidity but gradual climb. "Monotubs" can be considered to have active air exchange when fans are employed to force degrees of convection amongst the polyfil holes. This is better for them, as they have huge air needs due to the ginormous block of mycelium in them.
PASSIVE HUMIDIFICATION occurs by evaporation from substrates, perlite, container walls, towels, anything that gets the job done. As stated above, SGFCs are humidified by incoming air filtering thru the dampened perlite in the bottom. Monotubs are humidified by evaporation from the sheer bulk of moisture-holding substrate in the tub. Greenhouses using passive air exchange can potentially use bulk substrates to build humidity as well, but reaching humidity may be difficult without stifling airflow.
ACTIVE HUMIDIFICATION is from electric humidifiers. It is usually paired with active air exchange, as passive humidification could not effectively humidify the air with active air movement. "Cool mist" humidifiers (i.e. modified Vicks 4500) use impellers and fans to move humidified air. It's quite possible to have high enough humidity just from this alone, and they're perfectly simple to rig to a chamber setup. Ultrasonic humidifiers use a high-frequency 'speaker' to intensely agitate huge amounts of tiny water droplets into the air. They are tricky to use since they are quite literally force-wetting the air, so below I specifically delve into using these devices.
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There are plenty of good instructions available for shotgun terrariums and monotubs. I would like to focus upon "greenhouse"-style fruiting chamber methods!
Further, of what very few "cool mist" humidifiers work for this purpose, all of those are easy to use for just about any chamber. I'll elaborate on it below...
… thus I will focus on ULTRASONIC HUMIDIFIERS (USH) for now!
 
There are countless forms. They are common, readily available, inexpensive. They blast huge amounts of mist into the air.
However, they are not adequate for mushroom fruiting chamber use by themselves.
In household use, these tiny droplets of moisture evaporate quickly in the air, or shortly after landing on any surface. In a mushroom fruiting chamber however, where the humidity is already very high, it's quite likely that much of this moisture simply fall to the floor and collect again as liquid water.
For this reason, the mist from USH must be "stirred into the air"
 A good-old-fashioned fan. Nothing stirs air like. Must be a pretty small fan - you don't want rampant vortexes of air in your chamber! An USH paired with a fan is little different that the popular Vicks v4500 coolmist, that device is essentially a fan system cleverly paired with an ultrasonic impeller anyway.
A fan makes the difference between 80% with water on the floor and 98% humidity with a 'dry' floor.
This will only work best for you after experimenting with many arrangements to find the way best suited to the space and barriers in your chamber. The airflow inside the chamber from the fan must evenly mix the USH's mist into the air. If this is done correctly, it should only take a couple minutes of the USH and fan running simultaneously to fully humidify the chamber, even right after a complete air flush!
The fan must only be running when the USH is! Simply run them on the same timer or humidistat. My recommendation is to use a small-increment cycle timer (you can make yourself cheap & easy!) and an analog hygrometer to determine how many minutes per cycle are necessary to retain humidity.
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Although the design to be outlined in this post is made to not require special air exchanging, many designs are not, so I thought to add the best approach to greenhouse-style FAE to complete the info helpful for building any approach to a large GH.
FRESH AIR EXCHANGE is always the primary concern with fruiting chambers. This doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a specific vector of air passage in your design. In the case of tote FCs you could fan them out many times a day.
With such a large chamber as I built shown below, I need only open the door for a while a couple times a day. With loads of "bulk" substrates you may need to do this and/or fan it out a bit more often, if not install an active air exchange method… But even with lots of straight-grain containers I only open it up once a day to flush the air.
In my case, the nearby open window keeps some air mixing around the edges as well. Experiment with your environment!, but make sure it's stable before you let it govern your FC! It can take repetitive visits off your time and work.
If you find that you need more airflow, a "cool mist" humidifier is perfect to supply gradual flow without stunting your humidity. In fact it will likely reduce your USH runtimes further. Unfortunately most "cool mists" use wicking filters. These are NOT suited for mycology.
To my knowledge, pretty much the only humidifier for the job is the Vicks v4500, but it absolutely rules for the job once you've made the modification, which is necessary if you put it inside your chamber because it will otherwise shut-off in hi humidity.
 In fact, it rules so hard, that depending on how you choose to rig it up you will either turn your USH down to occasional short bursts or even stop using the USH altogether.
Here's how to modify that humidifier, instructions by OZZ:
Quote:
I disassembled the unit and cut the power wires going into and out of the humidistat control, completely disabling it and bypassing it altogether. I took awhile to figure out how to disassemble it without breaking it, but once I put it back together it worked perfectly! My humidity gauge is PEGGED inside of 4 minutes. It has 3 speeds and I was able to turn it all the way down to the lowest setting and still keep the humidity gauge pegged at 99%.
All you do is pop off the bottom cover and remove the neck. The trick is that the impeller WILL pop off of the axle, exposing screws that you can take off. It doesnt feel like it, but you just need to wedge your fingers underneath it on both sides and pull it off. Then disassemble it, remove all the covers exposing the controls and wires.
Dont worry about all the connections, its pretty daunting at first. There are only TWO wires going into the humidistat controller: a BLACK and a WHITE wire. Snip them both, strip a portion of each, and tie them together. The whole unit is wired that way so there is no worry.
The easiest use of this humidifier is to simply set in the bottom of the chamber. It will constantly cycle the air in the chamber and keep it at near-saturation humidity as well as these ultrasonic humidifiers and fans can, since it's pretty much that same thing. However, that does not provide air exchange.
It can be as simple as having slits in the plastic walls of your chamber so that air will mix somewhat but not enough to outmatch your humidifier's capability of keeping the humidity up.
The ideal use of them is to have them outside the chamber with the output blowing in, so that they flush air through the chamber. This is more difficult to work up as it requires running some form of tube or tent over the output. It is the most rewarding though as it results in full automation with the shortest USH bursts or none at all.
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Now to show you mine! Truth told, this is not intended to exemplify a professional or long-term fruiting chamber. Was thinking of ways to make FC space and I wanted to show this could be done. I put-together this GH as a result of countless FC experiments with most every approach and angle I had seen or imagined. I've made several angles on "greenhouse"(GH)-style chambers, mostly variations of the mini-greenhouse or wrapped shelves. All of them worked wonderfully as long as a way to fully-cycle the air was possible. That is their one main hurdle: the air is much more difficult to properly mix inside a fully loaded GH . If the chamber is designed to keep open passage of air amongst the entire chamber, this is a cinch! I do this by building my "greenhouse" around two shelf units with space between them. That space makes it easy to move the misty air amongst the whole chamber, no matter how large!
The goal was to quickly and easily (less than 2hrs) assemble lots of efficiently-used fruiting space (106qt tubs hold 18 of my fruiting containers, each shelf 38; 8 tubs 144, 8 shelves 300) with any brand's variety of cheap & simple common materials (USHs & fans) that was super-easy to access ('walk-in') required no automated air exchange (lots of present air, big door) no misting (USHs keep air almost saturated wet) and won't get stale air (cycling fans).
 Here are two such shelves set on a plastic drop sheet.
 Plastic sheeting is also wrapped around the back and top of the chambers. Many things work to secure the plastic around the shelves; I choose tape.
 Two overlapping plastic sheets are used for the front. This creates a "door" that loosely encloses the chamber when it settles.
    For this large chamber I use two USHs - one on the bottom with a small fan above it blowing into the bottom area, and another one in the middle with a fan behind it blowing into the upper area. This creates swirls in the space between the shelves that stirs the air amongst the shelves as well.
Don't start off with two USHs just because you see me using two for this large chamber. Start out with one! One USH is usually more than enough, in fact has to be cut-back from running constantly somehow, those modified short-cycle timers I mentioned before are perfect.
I am only using 2 to cut their running time in half. This has NO effect other than having to refill half as often but twice as much, besides possibly distributing humidification more evenly at first.
If you use 2 USHs before you're quite familiar with these tricks to using them, you'll end up with water all-over your chamber floor.
When you get them running on a stable cycle, try placing your calibrated analog hygrometer in different places within the chamber to test for evenness of humidity. It will be likely that different spots have different humidity, but as long as it's above 90% RH you'll do great!
 Hygrometer reads no less than 95%RH in any spot once it's been chilling closed for a while, 98% in most places, 100% in the areas the fans first blow the USH mist when running.
Gotta tag a few action photos!
    
This post has been edited, but despite the cause of its mention I chose to leave this section here for kicks: I contest that fuzzy stems are due to hi CO2 or "stale air", rather that it's allowed by constant hi humidity which does always occur in situations with too little air exchange. If humidity were to fall for any period at length those sensitive spikes on the base would and do wither back. A situation that builds-up CO2 or stale air would indeed fully allow fuzzy stems… but we know that it's a function of many species for locating new food debris around fruits. I have some "strains" of Cubensis that don't fuzz up at all, even in those environments, so there is definitely a factor of genetic disposition to the behavior.
These FCs have lots of air so CO2 buildup to excess is slow, usually flushed before a high level reached, and the air is kept nicely moving so avoids becoming stale or hot. Your FC is not necessarily receiving inadequate fresh-air just because Cubie grows more mycelium. Play around with it!
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I showed you mine…. now show me yours!
Edited by Violet (01/15/15 07:18 PM)
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM


Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 1,124
Loc: fuckin Mars man
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18094342 - 04/11/13 08:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I like that back to back shelving with the humidifier in the middle. I've been piecing together ideas for my FC redesign. Seems that provides a large area and a good amount of air to keep things stable.
I admit I haven't read the entire post all the way through yet, I'm posting in part to keep it tab'd  But what are you using for lighting? Just that window? The mushy's look a bit long and stretchy is why I ask.
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: FunnyLight]
#18094471 - 04/11/13 09:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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They're so tall because I used to take clones of giant mushrooms all the time, and these are those still. They're pretty sweet yielders, the length is why, def not a problem. Not all of them do that
  These two are a single isolate, it happens. Behaviour varies with many factors
I've kinda always had a thing for the tall ones.
 
Light is currently some floros. Will be switching to certain blue panels when they come out.

You're right about the large area. Does take some paced running of the ultrasonics to keep it up to near-saturation but the large air content as well as the airflow allowed is a huge advantage. Makes using USHs both possible/easy and worthwhile.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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thelanzii


Registered: 11/13/12
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! *DELETED* [Re: Violet]
#18094811 - 04/11/13 10:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by NemmiesReason for deletion: .
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: thelanzii]
#18095309 - 04/11/13 11:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACTIVE AIR EXCHANGE is made by use of fans, either directly or in a "cool mist" humidifier, and done when passive air exchange methods would not disperse enough CO2.
There's really is no reason to ever use a fan in a GH, monotub, or any other FC.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Kizzle]
#18095342 - 04/12/13 12:06 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Depends on your selection of "necessary." Humidifying air and automating air exchange are pretty good reasons, no? For many peeps they are, at least. Many of us don't want to mist lots so that big blocks of subs can supply that humidity. How are you humidifying your greenhouse if not with a fan? Especially with strong FAE. Coolmist humidifiers operate almost entirely by fan. Even most ultrasonic units have a small one to get the mist piping into the air.
An indoors greenhouse of oysters grows a bunch of scraggly long pathetics without full air exchange 3-6 times an hour.
Fans are not used "in" monotubs, but monos work better with fans circulating local air.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Edited by Violet (04/12/13 12:28 AM)
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cronicr



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18095593 - 04/12/13 01:29 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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you've given me some ideas to implement violet, great write up
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18095622 - 04/12/13 01:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's different though. The humidifier is blowing out humid air and the fan is integrated so you don't have much of a choice.
But when you do have a choice between relying soley on air holes and a fan, holes can provide just as much air as a fan and can distribute that air more evenly. The fan will generally cause more moisture loss from the substrates, some more than others, which means more misting is required.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Kizzle]
#18095642 - 04/12/13 01:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Until I built this greenhouse, for a long time I'd been using a mini-GH with computer fans installed on it to blow air thru. A short-cycle timer ran the fan 50 seconds every 40 minutes, and another short-cycle timer kicked in the ultrasonic right after for a few minutes.
At first I experienced like you said, having to mist a bit, even tho the ultrasonics quickly rehumidified the air. The problem was the vortex effect with dry air. Whether coolmist humidifiers create such a blowing vortex or not doesn't matter since that air is humid, but fans blowing dry air around with substrates will indeed dry them out.
Adding an air filter between the fan blowing in and the chamber killed this vortex and the air steadily migrated out without swiping moisture off the substrates. Having cleaner air being blown in was a nice plus. The ultrasonic then humidified the air fully; no more misting than a fine-tuned monotub. Kept this setup for about a year until stealing its humidifier for making this one.
Using a fan only in synchronous with an USH has the same effect as a coolmist humidifier. As said in the post, that's pretty much what a Vicks v4500 is. Any vortexing air from the fans does not cause drying problems when it's carrying countless water droplets. This has been my consistent experience, and this use of USHs is based on that.
All that said, you can see the GH I outlined making here doesn't have any automated fresh-air exchange. The fans only mix the ultrasonic's mist into the air, so it doesn't swipe moisture off the substrates or bring drier air into the chamber. Fresh air exchange is provided a couple times a day with a lingering open door
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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xaylon420
gettin' there

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18096021 - 04/12/13 06:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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i like the construction of your door very nice idea, and using 2 shelving units like that to build a 2 in 1 gh is a great idea, since then you have room to be INSIDE the tent, i love it.
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: xaylon420]
#18102601 - 04/13/13 12:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think fans are almost mandatory in a GH style FC, or any other LARGE FC. It helps to keep the air uniform and promote some FAE through the air movement.
Have you ever done a run in a GH style FC kizzle?
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
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boneynerd
Mushway! EatFresh!



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: FunnyLight]
#18104171 - 04/13/13 05:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I like the setup, looks productive and easily breaks down into other usable material if you need shelving or make a bigger one.. good idea 
thats what like $80 in shelving and like $10 in plastic? Nicely done.
-------------------- "Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich."
-SpitballJediS
"your a female, no one woulda cared you were naked,hell probably made someone's day, but I pull my balls out on a bus and im the bad guy.."
-Bishlap
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: boneynerd]
#18104333 - 04/13/13 06:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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$3 in plastic.
The shelves were a bit more than $80 together, but these in particular were worth it to me in particular. I won't say the price, as less-expensive options would work just as well for most. Wire metal shelves are more expensive new and are prone to rust, but actually work better if you can find them free used or something.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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sansa

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18109082 - 04/14/13 05:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Aren't you a little nervous about having those non waterproof fans inside the GH that's at 90%+ RH? They're going to rust and/or short out eventually. I hope they're at least on a GFI.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: sansa] 1
#18109489 - 04/14/13 06:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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If your USH or coolmist are inside your GH, then you have fans in your GH already No, not nervous Everything degrades. It's why we gotta keep stuff alive, maintain, replace.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18109818 - 04/14/13 07:24 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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So i know that the cool mists with wicking filters are bad because they encourage bacteria growth. Is this still an issue if I have one that takes non humid air from directly and only outside my GH and pumps it in? Will i still have a big bacteria problem?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom] 1
#18110831 - 04/14/13 11:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you change those filters all the time the grodiness won't be too big a deal. You may not achieve strong humidity with them.
I once used the chassis of a filter-type coolmist, without the filter and water, just for a fan on an ultrasonic. That would be the only potential rigged-up use of wicking/filtered cool mists for FCs, in my opinion
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (04/14/13 11:22 PM)
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sansa

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18111154 - 04/15/13 12:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: If your USH or coolmist are inside your GH, then you have fans in your GH already No, not nervous Everything degrades. It's why we gotta keep stuff alive, maintain, replace.
I kind of figured you'd believe yourself to be electrocution-proof.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: sansa]
#18111199 - 04/15/13 01:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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sansa

Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18111327 - 04/15/13 01:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I also expected you to be actively obstinate about admitting you've created a health hazard. It's a cool setup and I may end up using your door idea, but not without waterproof fans and a good GFI!
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: sansa] 1
#18111357 - 04/15/13 02:12 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe I'm not admitting I've created a health hazard because I've not created a health hazard. This is nothing new to me. Anything manually moving air has fans. If you use a coolmist or an ultrasonic in a FC application you have fans with hi humidity. I've had some cheap fans in old coolmist units start to slow down and fail. This speeds up their death but many of mine have lasted longer. I keep getting more fans, I keep not having to throw them away, I keep never blowing fuses, I keep never replacing surge protectors, I keep 95+%RH, I keep growing fungi.

sansa O' troll, thanks for looking out for me
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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sansa

Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18111458 - 04/15/13 03:35 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Normally I wouldn't bother replying back but since this might get you killed, do you have your circuitry on a GFI? They are not expensive. Something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30339005-3-Wire-Adapter/dp/B000P8COIS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1366018555&sr=8-3&keywords=gfi
Edited by sansa (04/15/13 03:37 AM)
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boneynerd
Mushway! EatFresh!



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: sansa]
#18111478 - 04/15/13 03:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ideally I would get some metal wire ones and spray them with rhino liner or truck bed liner or atleast a paint to protect against rust.. usually if they are the decent metal racks you could do it.
But your right, walking thru Lowes or Depot the other day I noticed allot of decent plastic racks, even with enough openings for a fruiting shelf for cheap.
for $100 i can get a similar setup, and your tent design is cool I like it. If i expand, your ideas will be kept in mind.
-------------------- "Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich."
-SpitballJediS
"your a female, no one woulda cared you were naked,hell probably made someone's day, but I pull my balls out on a bus and im the bad guy.."
-Bishlap
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18112114 - 04/15/13 09:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: If you change those filters all the time the grodiness won't be too big a deal. You may not achieve strong humidity with them.
I once used the chassis of a filter-type coolmist, without the filter and water, just for a fan on an ultrasonic. That would be the only potential rigged-up use of wicking/filtered cool mists for FCs, in my opinion
I have an ultra sonic humidifier now, and boy do those babies put out some stuff. I have the cool mist hooked up with the outside air in take getting air directly from out of the gh. Right now the cool mist is on 24/7 and the ultra sonic is on for 30mins/off 1 hour and i have 99% humidity.
I'm going to empty the cool mist and take the filter out and just use it as my fan and see if i get the same results. If not, I can always turn the power up on my ush.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18115688 - 04/15/13 09:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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You'll likely find you can use smaller intervals on the USH.
I can't say this enough - peeps be pushing too much water in so many greenhouse setups! As long as it's thoroughly swept into the air, very little is needed.
Mine are on max 4mins every hour
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18128712 - 04/18/13 10:03 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats what my sub looks like after being in my gh for 2 days. I have my ush on 30mins/off 30mins on the lowest setting. My cool mist is on 24/7 for fae with no filter or water, just the fan.
Hows it look? I dont expect pins for a while since my tubs are all PE so thats not my issue. Does it look too saturated?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18130363 - 04/18/13 03:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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You need an analogue hygrometer. Can't skimp on that when constructing a greenhouse. Without it, you have little idea where you stand with moisture… and there's no way I could have a better idea about your chamber from the other side of the internet.
Since your USH has "settings" it's hard to tell if 30min on 30min off is too much. I know that with my non-adjustable USHs 2 min on 38 min off is just right.
Using a non-humidying fan for FAE 24/7 will likely dry your chamber a lot. Even with 30min at a time on with the USH, 30 minutes off is too long to have such dry air pushing thru. It's possible you're pushing dry air all the time then spurting mist all in the air at length, leaving your substrates experiencing a to-and-fro that would be hard on them if it's extreme.
Yours don't look dry, maybe there's extra moisture on them, hard to tell because your photo looks blurry.
Only use 24/7 FAE when it's coming from a proper coolmist humidifier. Only use long USH runs when it's actually required to keep humidity up.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18130406 - 04/18/13 03:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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With the ultra sonic humidifier on 30mins/off 30 mins and my cool mist on 24/7, I have between 90-99 RH. I have an analog hygrometer is there as well as a digital one (tells the temp as well).
My trays each have the same amount of moisture on the surface of the substrate as all of my mono's have once introduced into fruiting.
I only have 3 trays in there now, but space for 18. By next wednesday i should be able to have about 10 more trays in there.
I'm going to keep up with my schedule right now since everything looks alright. The only thing that sucks is i have to refill my ush every 2 days. Once I start getting some fruits i can really tell if there is any issue.
When you put your colonized sub (i'm assuming you didnt always spawn just RGS and case) did you have moisture on top of your sub? its not sitting water, but the pretty drops that rest on the top.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18130436 - 04/18/13 04:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sounds like you are fine. Although, your hygrometer will be very slow to react to the swings in RH caused by pushing dry air without humidification for 30min
Check out the modified timer linked in the op. With those you can experiment with getting your half-on-half-off adjusted USH with 1, 2, 4, 7 minute intervals etc. instead of 30, or adjusting your on/off ratio however you like.
In all FC setup scenarios, if you are exchanging more air than you need to, you're watering the air more than you need, and losing more moisture from substrates than you need.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18130467 - 04/18/13 04:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ya i saw that, but at the time i only had 1 timer and i needed for my lights. I will take a stab at that tomorrow because I do feel like my hygrometer is off (because of the reason you stated).
If my RH dropped in between cycles would'nt you think I would notice some differences in the amount of moisture on my trays?
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to perfect my GH before my pan cyans and cambo's are ready. After all, that's the main reason I bought it. I hope to use my GH for only pans and just grow as much as i can
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Dr.Mind_BendEr
Mad Scientist


Registered: 04/11/13
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18130977 - 04/18/13 05:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Violet im looking at getting the generic 4 tier greenhouse you see everyone else using with the greenhouse teks
My question is this, I live in the South and summer time is pretty much here, my House temp. at the moment ( in my sunroom - where im planning on putting said greenhouse ) is at 78 deg F. Thats without AC on
Now when I put the AC on im thinking about setting it at 74-76 F. And with the shades up/down I can prolly drop/rasie it a degree or two.
Its Humid here in the summer time and I mean like I feel like a Slave outside working in a cotton field humid. Lets say that this state is pretty much a gold mine IF you can find the right cow pasture, todays Outside Humidity was 80% currently and will be 90% tonight
When all is said and down Im planning on having about 4 x 15quart Hpoo trays in the G-house with between 6 - 8 x 1/2 pint cakes. Im also planning on putting the bottom of the G-house which is open on a tray of perilite. 
Do you think Im going to need a Humidifier in the Greenhouse? I know without one Im going to have to mist the trays/cakes and open the zipper door everyday/every other day for FAE and Moisture , correct?
Im under the impression that based on outside Humidity and the fact that my house usaually is pretty humid inside that If i hook one up im going to over saturate my trays, which from their size alone should be able to produce enough heat, which in conjection with misting should provide a easily obtainable 90ish % humidity.
Ive got a timer similar to the one that youve linked to mod, and I def can mod it, and the local thrift store today had 2 USH and 2 CoolMist Humidifiers ( filter type ) but were def. questionable - said thrift store wouldnt let me test them and also has a no refund return policy 
Im more in the corner of buying the Vicks Filter Free Humidifier and use OZZ's mod and place it inside on said moded timer, if that will work...
Lemme kno what you think, all ive been doing is reading a shite ton on here w/o asking any questions, can find most in search func, but its all dependent on your individ env, setup, # of trays, etc....
--------------------

Edited by Dr.Mind_BendEr (04/18/13 08:27 PM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Dr.Mind_BendEr]
#18132818 - 04/18/13 11:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Blake: If your substrates are getting "misted" enough by the humidifier as to have droplets all-over, they're likely not losing their own moisture to evaporation much or any during the dry periods between. This may work out fine for Cubie ask it can do 70-80% RH no problem in fruit form, but for the fragile and sensitive exotics you're talking about growing, your chamber would be lucky at best to work.
I'd suggest to you what I'm about to suggest to this other peep
Quote:
Dr.Mind_BendEr said: Do you think Im going to need a Humidifier in the Greenhouse? I know without one Im going to have to mist the trays/cakes and open the zipper door everyday/every other day for FAE and Moisture , correct?
Correct. I think you'll only need a humidifier in there if you don't think you'll get enough air exchange for your throngs of giant substrates. My GH here doesn't have any FAE device due to large airspace, circulating air, and twice-daily door hangings. This works because of my many small substrates which cannot supply the humidity.
Quote:
Dr.Mind_BendEr said: Im under the impression that based on outside Humidity and the fact that my house usaually is pretty humid inside that If i hook one up im going to over saturate my trays, which from their size alone should be able to produce enough heat, which in conjection with misting should provide a easily obtainable 90ish % humidity.
Yours may can easily keep up humidity and have enough air with open-tent with enough open subs and misting, even without such hi local humidity Steady air exchange is what I'd be more concerned with for lots of giant subs. Then once you have enough air exchange misting giant substrates might not be quite enough to keep them in proper form to crop optimally, especially if you have to mist lots. Adding a USH with lots of passive air exchange is one option, and you've already mentioned the other...Quote:
Dr.Mind_BendEr said: Im more in the corner of buying the Vicks Filter Free Humidifier and use OZZ's mod and place it inside on said moded timer, if that will work...
It would work fantastically.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18136356 - 04/19/13 04:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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I cant for the life of me get my timer apart. I just went to lowes and got what seemed like the best screw driver, yet i cant unscrew it.
Would a digital timer work?
Any advice on getting this thing apart?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18136727 - 04/19/13 06:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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They have special triangular screws. I had to use a particular size screwdriver to wedge between two of the three prongs of the recession in order to jimmy the screws loose.
One time that I was modding one I couldn't find a screwdriver of the right size, and had stripped the screws trying anyway. So I used a straight-up drill and bit to drill thru the parts with the screws, totally destroying it and using adhesive to put the halves back together after modification.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18136848 - 04/19/13 06:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's what I was thinking. There's no vital component s near the screws that could get harmed? Did you use a bit designed for metal?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18136884 - 04/19/13 06:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, as long as you drill right thru where the screws are and the posts of plastic they're in, nothing will be harmed. I just used whatever drill bit I found. The screws were pretty soft as far as metal comes, no problem.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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Dr.Mind_BendEr
Mad Scientist


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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18137918 - 04/19/13 10:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks Violet I'll come back and post picks once the greenhouse is set up and said humidifier is hooked up
I know right now tho from a logistical stand point that the temps will be high enough ( 80+ F )by the time my jars are spawned, that a humidifier running all day in the indoor GH is going to soak my trays... sound about right?
Im thinking that the GH temp will be higher than the outside surrounding air which with the humidifer pumping in the GH, is going to coat that sucker
So im thinking I will only need the Humidifer on a small poriton of time, but will need FAE a little more with the large substrate tubs, havent trouble shooted this issue yet.
But who the fuk nkows right, will never know until its built and set up... guess im jjust looking for intelligent ppl whove run a system in a similar environment as mine, and the issues which they have had to deal with ...
Going to delve back into the search bar and let you know what I come up with... fukn mycology, literally a shit ton of work
--------------------

Edited by Dr.Mind_BendEr (04/19/13 10:21 PM)
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nksfo5
traverse traveler

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Dr.Mind_BendEr]
#18241715 - 05/10/13 04:30 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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good notes on the passive and active fresh air exchange
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Amelia Rose
Fungi Friend


Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 61
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: nksfo5]
#18620498 - 07/27/13 05:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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What is the footprint of your greenhouse? I like this design and not sure the dimensions. Thanks!
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afass
Stranger
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#18935409 - 10/05/13 09:46 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Violet - I would have posted this in your Violet-tek thread but it was unfortunately closed! What kind of water do you use for your fogger and for bottom-watering your cakes? In an earlier thread you mention that you use good, clean water - do you mean distilled? Do you have to boil it first?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: afass]
#18950073 - 10/08/13 03:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Na I don't use distilled water or boil the water first. Right out of the tap is fine! Might have to clean out ultrasonic humidifiers more often, but it's better than buying bottled/distilled water at 1000-3000 times the price of tap water. I've mentioned before that having a simple drinking water filter could only help but probably makes little to no difference.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Bulkman
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#20996287 - 12/18/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Love that set up all can be found at Lowes. Was just there. Looking at those same shelves and humidifiers.. Do you think I can set my bulk substrate colinized bricks directly on the shelves. And do you put iodine or peroxide in the humidifier water? Or just straight Poland spring water?
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Wasp


Registered: 08/07/14
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Bulkman]
#20996338 - 12/18/14 08:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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wish you were here (haha) but are you still running this set up?
-------------------- should I start this with a ton of obscenities?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Bulkman]
#20996708 - 12/18/14 10:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, I don't use this setup anymore. These days I have gone totally invitro.
I am considering building pretty much this same thing again, for growing Shiitake, but adding a bit of manual airflow.
Quote:
Bulkman said: Love that set up all can be found at Lowes. Was just there. Looking at those same shelves and humidifiers.. Do you think I can set my bulk substrate colinized bricks directly on the shelves. And do you put iodine or peroxide in the humidifier water? Or just straight Poland spring water?
If you're doing something like trays or bags, then sure. I wouldn't suggest putting subs naked, on all sides, into any chamber really.
One could put some peroxide in the ultrasonic's water if they want. I didn't, I just cleaned them every time or every other time I filled them, depending on how long they lasted. Used tap water. I did notice that the tap water would cause a small white haze of deposit to form on some things over a long period of time, but this was not concerning to me at all. It's from tap water, after all.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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Phycus
Blister Lips



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#20996952 - 12/18/14 11:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any thoughts about a warm mist? Im thinking that at the bottom of my mini gh, paired with a strainer of perlite at the top, wet obviously. Im thinking warm air will rise from the mister, and cool air will fall from the strainer. As well as my vinyl door being open about 8 to 10 inches at the bottom
-------------------- disclaimer - nothing i post is real. this account is for fictitious purposes and posts should not be taken literally
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Phycus]
#20996994 - 12/18/14 11:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think warm mists have a place in any fruiting chamber. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe otherwise, at least. They're okay for keeping cooler rooms at a better-managed temperature and helping slightly lower ambient humidity.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#20997003 - 12/18/14 11:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: I don't think warm mists have a place in any fruiting chamber.

You're just going to end up with a shitload of condensation on everything.
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Phycus
Blister Lips



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#20997136 - 12/19/14 12:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even if i stagger the time say 10 mins every 90 mins or so? Not trying to jack your awesome thread here violet, but i did have some questions regaurding raising the co2 level artificially in a mini gh. Even though the myc will off gas co2, if i were to introduce a large quantity of it and then exchanging it rapidly, would this initiate faster pinning?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Phycus]
#20997157 - 12/19/14 12:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Naw, man, don't overcomplicate things. Substrates will produce more CO2 than you want to deal with. Mycelium need fresh air. Fruiting chambers should be simple. Most things about mycology should be.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Phycus
Blister Lips



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#20997197 - 12/19/14 12:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh man i completely agree to keeping it simple, just asking about some ideas before i put them into motion. Do you have any experience with straw logs? I made a thread with some questions, of which you have answered two haha. Last question- if my straw log is in a mini gh with ideal temps, should i keep the plastic tubing on, or cut it off and let it set on the mesh wire shelf? Sorry if this is unrelated. Wouldnt blame you for flaming me haha
-------------------- disclaimer - nothing i post is real. this account is for fictitious purposes and posts should not be taken literally
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Phycus]
#20997222 - 12/19/14 12:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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For straw logs, I believe it ideal to give them holes to grow out of. Most Oyster grows I have personally seen were done this way. It partially depends on humidity. If you have the humidity consistently near saturation, and air exchange is controlled but ample enough, you can be significantly more liberal with the substrate's exposure.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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Phycus
Blister Lips



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#20997235 - 12/19/14 12:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im just worried about under side pinning on plastic. Ill do anything to avoid a contam or a situation where i couldve avoided it. I believe itll just be a hit or miss thing, being that a log is supposed to fruit in 360° of its surface area, with the tubing on or off. Thank you for the help. Also, how long do you dunk your logs, if at all?
-------------------- disclaimer - nothing i post is real. this account is for fictitious purposes and posts should not be taken literally
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Wasp


Registered: 08/07/14
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Phycus]
#20998564 - 12/19/14 11:36 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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mmanual air flow? such as opening and fanning with a fan or something? and ive looked up invintro and ehh just not for me but this set up I I would be using this as the frame of mine and build on it mind if I shoot you some PM'S with questions later?
-------------------- should I start this with a ton of obscenities?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Wasp]
#21000483 - 12/19/14 08:10 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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I wonder what invitro you looked up. There are many different things that qualify under that term.
Guess I meant to say "active" airflow, as opposed to passive, the terms I use in this tek itself. Not manual, because it would kindof apply to what I mean, but more applies to what you likely meant which I will most certainly not really be doing. I do mean something to actively push air in and/or draw air out.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Bulkman
Stranger

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#21033551 - 12/27/14 10:08 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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What's the best way to sterilize filter bags? Or will pasteurizing the bulk sub be good enough before I add my spawn?
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spinalmushroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#22790174 - 01/17/16 12:18 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Bump! Cuz this is an awesome very informative thread and I see you are still around violet.
I am designing a very similar GH only I am going to build it into the crawl space in my attic for discretion sake.
My question is could I use tyvek house wrap to make the "walls" vs. the clear plastic? My thinking is that this will increase the "passive" FAE in my greenhouse without RH loss. Good idea or no?
Thanks for your awesome thread it cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had in my GH design
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: spinalmushroom]
#22790182 - 01/17/16 12:21 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
spinalmushroom said: My question is could I use tyvek house wrap to make the "walls" vs. the clear plastic? My thinking is that this will increase the "passive" FAE in my greenhouse without RH loss. Good idea or no?
You're still gonna have to leave the GH open or cut slits/holes in the tyvek for proper FAE.
We use tyvek as filters because it blocks a lot of air.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: spinalmushroom]
#22790228 - 01/17/16 12:32 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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I looked up the "perms", or moisture permeability, of that material and it is poor. Even straight plywood would be better, from what I saw. It also looks to be MUCH more expensive. I'll hold that plastic is your best bet. If you have the budget to get 1 mil or 1.5mil plastic though you'll have great moisture retention than painter's drop cloth which just sufficiently serves to create a maintainable climate within. Moisture loss should be a bigger concern for your home than fresh air for your greenhouse, which should be tuned and controlled manually anyway.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (01/17/16 12:46 PM)
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spinalmushroom
midnite toker

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: PussyFart]
#22790231 - 01/17/16 12:33 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Yeah that makes sense... We also use tyvek filter discs in our lids for FAE that's why I thought of it but a guess they need a lot less FAE at that stage than in fruiting.. Thanks for the quick reply PF
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: spinalmushroom]
#22790239 - 01/17/16 12:34 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
spinalmushroom said: We also use tyvek filter discs in our lids for FAE
No we don't, we use them for filtered GE.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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spinalmushroom
midnite toker

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#22790262 - 01/17/16 12:41 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Price is not an issue .. I work construction and both house wrap an 10 mil plastic are readily available to me.. When you put it on a house it is designed to keep water out but let some air through so the you don't get condensation up and under your siding. It was a stab in the dark but I trust that you know way more about this than I do ha
Thanks for your help guys
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: spinalmushroom]
#22790291 - 01/17/16 12:46 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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It will keep liquid water out pretty well, but your concern is humidity escaping and then dewing onto the wood in your home. These materials are made purposefully to allow humidity permeability so that any moisture inside doesn't stay inside. With the exception of rain, building materials like wood are almost never exposed to saturation humidity, or the constant presence of humidity that might escape from our fruiting chambers. Doing so over a long time, without regular drying periods, could result in rot in your home. Tyvek won't maintain your humidity and you may struggle to keep it up, all while finding that the chamber still doesn't disperse the gases produced by the mycelium in fruiting. You want to be able to exchange your air manually, and raise humidity either during or after the air exchange then be able to maintain it.
I'm not sure how much experience you already have, but what you're talking about doing is probably a very ambitious endeavor. If you haven't built, tuned, and maintained a more modestly-sized greenhouse of any kind yet, DEFINITELY start there. Even the one I have here is meant to have room for LOTS of projects, and requires some fairly ongoing work to keep it filled. I built it to be able to house all my Psilocybe projects as well as fruit my many gourmet mushroom blocks, particularly Shiitake. I wouldn't want to build something that occupied the space equivalent of a whole attic storage until I were going for a "small" gourmet mushroom business operation.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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spinalmushroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: PussyFart]
#22790294 - 01/17/16 12:47 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Yeah that makes sense too sorry I'm such a newb
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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spinalmushroom
midnite toker

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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#22790322 - 01/17/16 12:54 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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thank you violet that makes perfect sense yes you sure do have a knack for 'splainin shit.
The only FCs I have messed with are SGFC so far and plan to continue while I exporiment with my GH.
My GH is not going to be nearly as large as yours maybe if you put one of your shelf units on its side it would be about that size
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: spinalmushroom]
#22790332 - 01/17/16 12:57 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Oh okay cool! I had the mental picture of you lining the inside of your attic space with greenhouse plastic, hahah.
Let me know if I can help you any further! And feel encouraged to show your work once you've gotten it tuned in.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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cronicr



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#22790361 - 01/17/16 01:02 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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the new place i am moving into in febuary has two gh's there for me...like a sign telling me to go back to them
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
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spinalmushroom
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonics, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#22790367 - 01/17/16 01:05 PM (9 years, 1 day ago) |
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Hahaha no my crawl space is about a 4' by 4' triangle that runs the length of the house ( the rest of the attic is finished) i was planning on taking about an 8' section of it and making it my GH out of it. Thanks man much love
-------------------- Though one moment's shot through infinitys rounds.. Now is the only time anything happens.
I live in a dream world, this is all fake.
Poor Man's Incubator
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Akbal5
Stranger



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonic, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Violet]
#24261692 - 04/21/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi everyone, my question its that its better use SGFC or a greenhouse controlled environment with fan air flow 5minuts 3 times a day, proper light and keep humidity with water on the base air pumped and right temperature with a heater thermostat instead of use ultrasonic? thanks
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonic, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Akbal5]
#24261694 - 04/21/17 12:14 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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For cakes, SGFC for sure. GH is not even viable these days compared to tubs anyways
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Akbal5
Stranger



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonic, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Mad Season]
#24261870 - 04/21/17 01:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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undestand, and for bulk? better GH ?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonic, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Akbal5]
#24262018 - 04/21/17 02:55 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Look up mono tubs
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Akbal5
Stranger



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Re: Greenhouse Tek - FC theory, how-to-use Ultrasonic, and easy indoor greenhouses! [Re: Mad Season]
#24263414 - 04/22/17 06:04 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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thanks
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