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OfflineSpace Monkey
Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 908
Last seen: 6 years, 12 days
How I would regulate drugs
    #18073734 - 04/07/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

If I could setup drug legislation, this is how I would do it:

I would legalize every drug.

Simply being an adult would not be an adequate condition to buy drugs. People would have to take a class learning about whatever individual drug they apply for, and pass a test to receive a license to purchase that drug. I believe people require standardized education about any drug they choose to use or abuse, no one should have to find anything out later or be deceived by inaccurate information from non-credible sources. Just the facts, right from the beginning.

This would go for all drugs, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, heroin, all of them. I believe people require standardized education about drugs if they choose to use them.

Needle dispensaries and injection sites would be subsidized, and people would be educated about how to use such methods and the dangers which accompany them.

Rehab facilities would be heavily subsidized everywhere for when people felt they needed help getting off drugs.

I would not implement sin taxes on anything, this only leads to economic problems for addicts and leads to criminal behavior, if cocaine and heroin were a $1.50 per gram, no one would be out robbing people and screwing people over to support their addiction. The only issues people should encounter with their drug use should be a direct result of the pharmacology of those drugs.

These regulations would cost a fair amount, but I believe they would still be a hell of a lot cheaper than the war on drugs, and better for society.

Thoughts?


Edited by Space Monkey (04/07/13 07:43 PM)


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InvisibleVaipen
Psychonaut

Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 782
Loc: Europe
Re: How I would regulate drugs [Re: Space Monkey]
    #18075211 - 04/08/13 01:54 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, but when you sign up for a course and get a license, this means registration.

In my country they introduced a 'weed pass'.  This you get by registering at a coffee shop and without one you can't buy anything. Many people don't want to be known to use cannabis and so they buy it in the street again, which is a giant step back. It also means that many of those don't want to go that way and no longer have access to weed.

I would never want to register anything wherever. Government is corrupt. So what will they do with this information? What assumptions will they have? So if I lose my job and get an allowance for as along as they can give it until I find new work, will they cut it because I am a drug user, because I am suspicious? Will they do an investigation to see if I was late for work a lot and find out why I was fired? Was I lazy? And isn't that because weed makes you 'slow'?

And will health insurance companies force me, when they get access to this information, increase my monthly fee because they deem I am a risk taker with unhealthy behavior?

Will I even get a job, when employers find my name in an illegally copied database?

Would this license system be the new David Star, sown on clothes of Jews like in WWII? We still have that trauma over here, never again!

The rest of what you propose, well, I am not sure if I want heroin to be available for all who succeed their course and get a license. It is not hard to learn about a drug and the consequences, the effects on your body. That license should mean something. But how will you test a person if they can handle a shot of heroin? It is a highly addictive substance and even after testing you could still fall for its seductiveness.

What would that license entail? You would have to find out if a person wants to use to suppress trauma. So you'd have to do psychological testing. This is a biased examination and never 100% fail-proof. You'd have to study how prone they can be to psychological addiction. So what about privacy? Are you to talk about how long you wet your bed as a kid, what your relationship is with your parents? What is it that you want to know about someone before you grant a license?

So here the same problem arises as with registration. It is nobody's business. And yet, we have to protect society. So this collides.

So these are just some random thoughts.

There is a great bias against drugs after decades of government indoctrination. You cannot legalize anything I am afraid without first changing culture to accept and be much less judgmental about people who want to use some drug.

In fact, I think we need to re-invent shamanic practices. McKenna, Sheldrake and Abrahams talked about these things in one of or more Trialogues. They had some good ideas, but what a massive undertaking to remove deeply instilled paradigms that drugs are bad, to change national drug laws as well ass international drug laws. The whole islamic world would object.

And when you get that far you have to invent a regulatory system of some sort.

The way I see it is that we allow people to have rites of passages at certain stages of life. E.g. we celebrate when someone turns 50. A special moment. That is the time for a good trip as part of a rite I suppose.

But also when a kid turns 18 when it turn adult, at 21 another when here at least, someone is then also financially independent of parents in law-terms.

We would need to create a special calender for use other than specific rites of passage, maybe what was proposed in that Trialogue.

Personally I have been considering how society would function with this in place. I envision special centers in each town and city, just like we have medical centres now, where people can go for this ritual, either alone or in groups, where professional staff is present. That is to say, a modern shaman who is well equipped in all these drugs, or some of them. You might have a DMT specialist and a mushroom specialist. These shamans will perform the rituals and be the guides to the experience. In such a building would be many rooms for people to trip in alone, or larger rooms for rituals. There would be a doctor or nurse nearby in case of emergencies.

People would first come in, get information about what rituals are available, discuss how they want to personalize it, make an appointment and reserve the rooms needed. They get information to read at home, to prepare mentally, warnings about the effects etc. And all tat would be against a background where society has a renewed sense of time, the passage of time and another perpsective on how to be in the world, what for and why.

So basically it is impossible to isolate drugs, legalize them and hope for the best. For it to work that way, ALL of society will need to be enlightened enough to allow this for those who want to do it, laws need to be changed, national and international and our outlook on life would have to be much less intolerant. And who knows what else must change before this can take place.

It is a paradox isn't it If people would use more psychedelics, that is, the right ones, not heroin e.g. and become more mellow and wise, such change would occur, but it cannot occur because the use is forbidden. So where do you break into this cycle.


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OfflineSpace Monkey
Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 908
Last seen: 6 years, 12 days
Re: How I would regulate drugs [Re: Vaipen]
    #18075814 - 04/08/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I don't want to learn about the people, or test to see if they have addictive personalities, or anything like that. I simply want people to have full knowledge of what they're getting into, and be able to prove it. I wasn't saying that this education would be a barrier, I said it would keep people from using on a whim ("fuck it, I'm drunk, I wanna try cocaine!"). I know that its easy to learn about a substance, that is the point. I wouldn't make any of the licensing information public, it would not be employers' business to check, it would be like alcohol, so long as a person did not go to work while intoxicated, they are entitled to use the drug and nobody has a right to drug test them or any of that bullshit. They simply need to obtain a license to purchase it, and that information would only be between them and the store. I don't want to stop anyone from using, its not about "who can handle heroin" and who can't, I think it is impossible to make such a distinction, everyone can become a junkie. I only want people to know what they're doing, whatever reason they do it for is their business.

Another thing I'd like to add, if someone is caught giving/selling one of the hard drugs such as heroin to someone without a license, it results in the license being revoked, maybe permanently, maybe for a determined amount of time, I'm not decided. Weed I'd just leave at a small fine or something. I'm not sure how I'd set that up exactly, but there would be deterrents from giving unlicensed people substances, stronger deterrents for the more addictive drugs.

To illustrate the freedom of this system, even if someone with a history of mental illness applied for licenses for hallucinogens, so long as they could pass the tests proving they are informed about the effects of the drug, I would allow them to purchase it. The only criteria I consider is that people are informed about what they're doing. It would be treated like alcohol, totally legal in all aspects and nobody's business except the person and the store, just so long as they didn't go to work or drive or something while intoxicated, which would not be monitored based on licensing, if someone showed up intoxicated an employer wouldn't need to know what it was exactly, just that they were intoxicated in general, same with driving under the influence.


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InvisibleVaipen
Psychonaut

Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 782
Loc: Europe
Re: How I would regulate drugs [Re: Space Monkey]
    #18081904 - 04/09/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Space Monkey said:
I don't want to learn about the people, or test to see if they have addictive personalities, or anything like that. I simply want people to have full knowledge of what they're getting into, and be able to prove it. I wasn't saying that this education would be a barrier, I said it would keep people from using on a whim ("fuck it, I'm drunk, I wanna try cocaine!"). I know that its easy to learn about a substance, that is the point. I wouldn't make any of the licensing information public, it would not be employers' business to check, it would be like alcohol, so long as a person did not go to work while intoxicated, they are entitled to use the drug and nobody has a right to drug test them or any of that bullshit. They simply need to obtain a license to purchase it, and that information would only be between them and the store. I don't want to stop anyone from using, its not about "who can handle heroin" and who can't, I think it is impossible to make such a distinction, everyone can become a junkie. I only want people to know what they're doing, whatever reason they do it for is their business.




I understand. So what you wanna do is what any chemist will do. Ask them if they know the medication prescribed and if they are aware of the side effects and if not you are given a description of them and how to sue the medication properly. Basically you wanna look someone in the eye and say 'Hey man, listen, look into my eye, don't screw around with this and be a fuckhead, word?'

In my land you got a flyer with information on mushrooms and its use and what to do, what not do do when you freak out. When they were still legal.

As for privacy, I don't want my store to know anything about me because people are corrupt and they WILL sell my info to my health insurance company or make a database available to employers.

You could say no, but our reality is one of internet crime, corruption, fraud, hacking, spoofing, internet warfare and it is all about money and how to get it or avoid spending it. If a health insurance company can profile me with more and more info, they will, even outside the bounds of the law, just to complete the picture of who I am and what health risks I take, to categorize me and based on that calculate my health premium as well as to what extend they want to insure me above the state set minimum.

I will NEVER grant a shop my personal information about such a product. As mart man once said that culture is not our friend, well, internet isn't either. Information needs to be looked upon much differently in today's world.

And so the whole 'permit' idea is not a good idea. You can only hope to trust people not to fuck it all up for themselves and each other. Unless you change society overall. like I suggested.

Quote:


Another thing I'd like to add, if someone is caught giving/selling one of the hard drugs such as heroin to someone without a license, it results in the license being revoked, maybe permanently, maybe for a determined amount of time, I'm not decided. Weed I'd just leave at a small fine or something. I'm not sure how I'd set that up exactly, but there would be deterrents from giving unlicensed people substances, stronger deterrents for the more addictive drugs.




That is how it works today. Soft drugs are a fine, hard drugs you get serious jail time. The fines ho from low to high right along the laws scale of severity (classifications of all drugs). Also, if you make it yourself in the kitchen, less punishment, if you operate in a criminal organization, more punishment.

I don't need a license to use bad fatty acids. Once you go the way of licenses you go the way of software (you don't own software, you buy a license to use a copy), the entertainment industry and their desperate attempts to get a grip on a changing world with DRM, drivers licenses and from these accepted ones to whatever they can license: marriage, procreation, fatty acids, access to adult material, cinema according to age discrimination (16 years, show your ID) and more and more. In the end you are not free anymore, freedom requires a license. This leads invariably to nanny state but worse, totalitarianism and a surveillance control state of the worst possible scenario.

Quote:


To illustrate the freedom of this system, even if someone with a history of mental illness applied for licenses for hallucinogens, so long as they could pass the tests proving they are informed about the effects of the drug, I would allow them to purchase it. The only criteria I consider is that people are informed about what they're doing. It would be treated like alcohol, totally legal in all aspects and nobody's business except the person and the store, just so long as they didn't go to work or drive or something while intoxicated, which would not be monitored based on licensing, if someone showed up intoxicated an employer wouldn't need to know what it was exactly, just that they were intoxicated in general, same with driving under the influence.




A license is no proof of good conduct or a gurantee they won't behave badly after the test. Look at drunk driving. Look at breaking traffic rules.

Recently there has been a discussion here about our government raising fines for traffic violations. At some point the deterrent is gone and no matter how much you charge, behavior isn't linearly improving positively along the line of the increased fine rates.

No man. I don't think asking people to do some test and 'proof' themselves more or less worthy, just to instill within them the risks and to instill a notion of responsibility about their use of a drug is going to prevent unsocial or stupid and unlawful behavior. People need to come to these things from a desire, an inner need to explore their own consciousness. It is better to have a society that provides this from birth by adopting a shamanic approach so that any person at any age already knows about risks because these are part of their education. By the time they enter their first shamanic rite of passage they have a cultural bias to be responsible about it. They wouldn't know any different way.

And so I maintain that isolated law changes won't work. Look at my country. Mushrooms did no harm, reports proven it wasn't a dangerous drug. And we got flyers in smart shops warning people and teaching the use. And we even provided those to foreigners, in English and German and Spanish I suppose. This was I think even a requirement by law. And STILL that damn christian pushed it to be made illegal. And no party usually not to strict on such issues, like Labor, opposed it.

You cannot trust government to be okay with just informing the users of any risks, we tried that and despite that it worked, apart from some fuckwit foreigners that still managed to end up in our hospitals, a very minor few people, it was made illegal.

And talk about the weed pass. You could say that this is a sort of license system. This already forces people to make a conscious decision to actually register (with the shop where the municipal government has access to it) in order to be able to buy weed. And people aren't getting the pass and buy in the street again like this was america. And some stopped using it. And now the mayors of some cities where this system was forced by the national government to be implemented, want this experiment to stop. Because local crime is up, there is more trouble with dealing, there is no longer any control and safety and quality cannot really be kept in check.

Drugs are so deeply ingrained in our current paradigms on how to be in the world (that is, drugs are bad, always) , that paradigm shits are needed before you get a situation where responsible use is common and accepted sense.


Edited by Vaipen (04/09/13 01:35 PM)


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