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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
"Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms
    #18033121 - 03/30/13 01:50 PM (11 years, 22 hours ago)

I've seen a couple posts recently from new people asking about still air boxes.

I have got to say that they are really a bad idea. There is no such thing as "still" air. It's always moving around and your contam rates are going to be mediocre as long as you use them.

I'm sure I'll get replies to this saying "you're doing it wrong! still air boxes are great! I have 100% success with them!"

Yeah, if that were true people would not spend hundreds of dollars building laminar flow hoods. Your beloved still air boxes contain MOVING air because that's what air does all the time.

They're a bad design based on a bad assumption and they give generally bad results, although you may get lucky from time to time with them, they're not a reliable solution.

Feel free to post your disagreements with me on this so I know which twits to add to my ignore list.

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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033126 - 03/30/13 01:51 PM (11 years, 22 hours ago)

people build flow hoods for convenience.


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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa] * 1
    #18033136 - 03/30/13 01:54 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

r u trolling?

a properly built, properly used SAB will give you as much success as a laminar flow hood.
a flowhood allows for free range of movement, a BIG plus for clumsy oafs like me.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa] * 2
    #18033144 - 03/30/13 01:55 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

If the whole
Quote:

sansa said:
I'm sure I'll get replies to this saying "you're doing it wrong! still air boxes are great! I have 100% success with them!"

Yeah, if that were true people would not spend hundreds of dollars building laminar flow hoods.



Because not everyone is comfortable working in a small box all the time, especially when you have a mushroom farm.

Furthermore, it is very possible to have 100% success in a SAB, I do it all the time, and will continue to do so.

With proper technique, there is nothing that cannot be done in a SAB, with good sterile technique.

If you suffer from having a shitty sterile technique, I am afraid not even a Laminar Flow will save you from the occasional contam.

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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: TheApprentice]
    #18033148 - 03/30/13 01:56 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Lots of people call their work boxes SABs when they have sleeves and/or gloves to block you away form the work environment.
When they do, they're really acting as glove boxes.
With these, spraying the inside environment and waiting for the mist to settle will indeed trap all contaminants in the moisture and/or on the bottom of the tub, so it doesn't matter if the air moves some.
With a true SAB, air from outside can easily mix with air inside, especially when moving arms in and out.


I mostly agree with you about SABs, but lots of people that will DISagree are actually referring to something more similar to a glovebox.

So such clarification in terms is needed before a huge stew gets brewed amongst seething throngs of people not talking about the same exact thing.



FOR EXAMPLE:

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
it is very possible to have 100% success in a SAB, I do it all the time, and will continue to do so.




What he is calling a SAB, I call a glovebox(-in-effect).
NAH and I were actually just discussing this in another thread.


His statement quoted above is untrue when referring to what 'SAB' REALLY means, but true when referring to what he means by it.

OP, Your statement is true when referring to what I mean by 'SAB', but not what NAH and others mean by it.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033150 - 03/30/13 01:57 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

There's 2, keep em coming!

Edited by sansa (03/30/13 01:57 PM)

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033160 - 03/30/13 01:59 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Lol, he is going to ignore evryone who disagrees with him, :facepalm:

This will not stop other people from seeing the posts we make, hahahaha.

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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033164 - 03/30/13 02:01 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Lots of people call their work boxes SABs when they have sleeves and/or gloves to block you away form the work environment.
When they do, they're really acting as glove boxes.
With these, spraying the inside environment and waiting for the mist to settle will indeed trap all contaminants in the moisture and/or on the bottom of the tub, so it doesn't matter if the air moves some.
With a true SAB, air from outside can easily mix with air inside, especially when moving arms in and out.


I mostly agree with you about SABs, but lots of people that will DISagree are actually referring to something more similar to a glovebox.

So such clarification in terms is needed before a huge stew gets brewed amongst seething throngs of people not talking about the same exact thing.



"so it doesn't matter if the air moves some."

Actually it matters a lot. I'm not happy with ANY contam. Using a flowbag and open air innoc I get 0% contams. When I first started I used a ridiculous SAB and got contams. SABs are for masochists who like to do things the hard way, period.

"I mostly agree with you about SABs, but lots of people that will DISagree are actually referring to something more similar to a glovebox."

Not my fault they don't know the terminology. Gloveboxes are OK and more contam resistant than a SAB, but they're a pain to work in.

Edited by sansa (03/30/13 02:02 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033168 - 03/30/13 02:02 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

sansa said:
There's 2, keep em coming!




Don't count me. Re-read my post above. I'm clarifying terms, not picking a side. They're both fine, they do exactly what they do, which is provide you an environment to either fuck up or succeed based on your own actions.

I had extremely discouraging success rates with SAB.

I had encouraging success rates with GB but did not enjoy the work process.

I immensely enjoy working with my sterile airflow cabinet due to the easy work process and 100% success ratio it affords me due to my good clean technique.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033174 - 03/30/13 02:04 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

sansa said:
There's 2, keep em coming!




Don't count me. Re-read my post above. I'm clarifying terms, not picking a side. They're both fine, they do exactly what they do, which is provide you an environment to either fuck up or succeed based on your own actions.



I didn't count you, you made good points.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033197 - 03/30/13 02:08 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

sansa said:
Using a flowbag and open air innoc I get 0% contams. When I first started I used a ridiculous SAB and got contams. SABs are for masochists who like to do things the hard way, period.




There's no such thing as a "flow bag", the word flow connotes that flow is involved, desired, or necessary for operation. Like "flow cabinet", it works on airflow thru a sterilizing filter.

You probably mean a glovebag. It's just a glovebox bag.



Do you not realize that gloveboxes operate on the same principle as SABs? Only difference with a GB is that the work environment cannot draw in new contams after the spray procedure. That's why you have poor success with SABs, new un-sprayed air can keep flowing in, and getting in the mix of moving air.

That's what you're really on about. Sure the air is never still. But unless new contam-bearing air is mixed in (which can happen with SABs but not GBs), it won't matter.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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OfflineBjJiggles
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033211 - 03/30/13 02:12 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Hey sansa FUCK YOU!!!! You are going to ignore me anyway because your a narrow minded bitch, so I might as we give you a reason...

Your idea about SAB is fucking stupid. Your just a dipshit with no sterile technique... Posting narrow minded view from your mothers basement...  Anyone who isn't open to criticism doesn't want to grow. Your stupid ass will go down hard one day. Because you won't listen to anybody...

Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and say, "You're a stupid fuck, and I eagerly await your death"

Have a good day!!!:sploosh:


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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033214 - 03/30/13 02:12 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

sansa said:
Using a flowbag and open air innoc I get 0% contams. When I first started I used a ridiculous SAB and got contams. SABs are for masochists who like to do things the hard way, period.




There's no such thing as a "flow bag", the word flow connotes that flow is involved, desired, or necessary for operation. Like "flow cabinet", it works on airflow thru a sterilizing filter.

You probably mean a glovebag. It's just a glovebox bag.



No, the flow bag in my link makes the air flow. It's not laminar flow but it definitely flows and the environment it makes is perfectly sterile. You've clearly never used one and are just theorizing without any actual experience to back up your statements.

Also, one other thing I'll say about gloveboxes is they are really only good when used with something that can sterilize the air and the only thing that's good at that is Oust, which has been taken off the market and replaced with something 3x as expensive.

So I don't consider gloveboxes to be a serious contender considering a flowbag only costs $40.

Edited by sansa (03/30/13 02:33 PM)

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OfflineZenlykos
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033218 - 03/30/13 02:13 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

On a semi related topic, What's all the hub bub about contams? I use SHIP's and do open air inoculations. Am I the only one with a 100% success rate? No flame sterilizing the needle, just work fast, and keep the needle covered at all times... ?

I know agar work, and pftek/ramsey seal methods are out of the question for open air.


--------------------
I worship the tree that is not there.

To readers: all of my posts are of knowledge I have obtained from practice, reputable sources, and common knowledge. If anything I say is incorrect, please feel free to correct me so that everyone can benefit.

Anything I post is purely fictional and is not to be taken seriously. :mushroom2:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: BjJiggles]
    #18033221 - 03/30/13 02:14 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

BJJ, I thought you were a laid-back dude.


Quote:

BjJiggles said:
I'm a pretty laid back dude...




--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: BjJiggles]
    #18033224 - 03/30/13 02:15 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

BjJiggles said:
Hey sansa FUCK YOU!!!! You are going to ignore me anyway because your a narrow minded bitch, so I might as we give you a reason...

Your idea about SAB is fucking stupid. Your just a dipshit with no sterile technique... Posting narrow minded view from your mothers basement...  Anyone who isn't open to criticism doesn't want to grow. Your stupid ass will go down hard one day. Because you won't listen to anybody...

Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and say, "You're a stupid fuck, and I eagerly await your death"

Have a good day!!!:sploosh:



I wasn't ignoring you but I am now. I didn't read your entire post but it looks like you're very upset about me.

Here's the thing: I ignore people because there's so much information on the shroomery that there's no time to spend reading the posts of people who are not experts.

It has nothing to do with me not liking you or anything like that, it's actually that I don't care at all. Not one bit.

So chill out a bit and stop caring so much. I definitely do not care about you.

Edited by sansa (03/30/13 02:16 PM)

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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033228 - 03/30/13 02:16 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

LOL your trolling is super effective.
:crankshitshower:

I know he can't see this, because he's a trolling idiot but WTF is up with the smuvbox? they've been around for awhile but no one uses them so I assume they suck?
anyone else using one?

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Offlinesansa

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Zenlykos]
    #18033230 - 03/30/13 02:16 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Zenlykos said:
On a semi related topic, What's all the hub bub about contams? I use SHIP's and do open air inoculations. Am I the only one with a 100% success rate? No flame sterilizing the needle, just work fast, and keep the needle covered at all times... ?

I know agar work, and pftek/ramsey seal methods are out of the question for open air.



Open air is the way to go. I do it all the time for everything but open jars and agar.

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OfflineBjJiggles
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: Violet]
    #18033240 - 03/30/13 02:19 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

:notards:

Haha, I usually am, Im not angry, something just came over me violet, I don't like people that always think they're right. Plus he called me a twit cuz I disagreed, so IMO he started it...

Nah, for real though, he just seems like somebody I really wouldn't like, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to let out some suppressed anger.... I like you though Violet :cool: along with 99.9% of the rest of the population... Gotta be a real dipshit for me not to like you.

Love you guys!!! Peace, I'm out!:jah:


--------------------

Alan Rockefeller said:No!  Do not feed the type collection of a new species to animals!

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OfflineZenlykos
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Re: "Still" Air Box is a contradiction in terms [Re: sansa]
    #18033252 - 03/30/13 02:21 PM (11 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

sansa said:
Quote:

Zenlykos said:
On a semi related topic, What's all the hub bub about contams? I use SHIP's and do open air inoculations. Am I the only one with a 100% success rate? No flame sterilizing the needle, just work fast, and keep the needle covered at all times... ?

I know agar work, and pftek/ramsey seal methods are out of the question for open air.



Open air is the way to go. I do it all the time for everything but open jars and agar.




See I'm curious as to what factor is causing success here?


--------------------
I worship the tree that is not there.

To readers: all of my posts are of knowledge I have obtained from practice, reputable sources, and common knowledge. If anything I say is incorrect, please feel free to correct me so that everyone can benefit.

Anything I post is purely fictional and is not to be taken seriously. :mushroom2:

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