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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24674583 - 10/01/17 08:29 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Age regardless? So is a one week old seedling already making alkaloids?


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InvisibleDualWieldRake
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
    #24674718 - 10/01/17 09:20 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Haven't found any information pointing in a different direction so this is what i assume


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Invisiblephishphan2088
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: DualWieldRake]
    #24675107 - 10/01/17 11:05 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

my two cents: The trichos are probably producing alkaloids not too long after germination however, The amount of plant tissue that is producing alkaloids is miniscule. Once they get bigger there is plenty of tissue making the alkaloids so potency might increase with age and level off at the potential of the genetics. That is my hypothesis.


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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: phishphan2088] * 3
    #24675137 - 10/01/17 11:15 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Forgot to share earlier... My Bridgesii x Pachanoi is preggers. She's having twins. She looks so angry. Originally it was grafted as a seedling. I think it has been on it's own roots since February. I think I stunted it keeping it in a 6 inch pot until last month.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: phishphan2088]
    #24675260 - 10/01/17 12:13 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Tom and Jerry

They were 2 pups growing from the same level at the top of a Pachanoi stock so I cut right below them and rooted them as one :shrug:


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InvisibleCactiphile
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
    #24676196 - 10/01/17 06:13 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Well I tasted a piece of one of my peruvianus today because it got root root so I cut it to re-root it and put a sliver in my mouth and it wasn't really noticeably bitter at all. This was a 3 year old seedling 4" tall and 1" diameter.




I have read conflicting stuff about the bitterness being an indication of alkaloids. I don't think its a good way to judge :shrug:




I have heard the complete opposite. Bitterness equals alkaloids. And its a reliable source.




This is science right here!


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Cactiphile]
    #24676216 - 10/01/17 06:26 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

What about people's bitterness tolerance?
My dad will drink a triple IPA with a smile on his face. For me a triple IPA would be like sucking on a lemon.
The variables are everywhere.


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #24676392 - 10/01/17 08:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

More time growing and testing less time speculating.


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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24676433 - 10/01/17 08:27 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Open pollinated 'Len' seedling
Juuls x validus
Grated seedling. Forgot which one it is but it's wrote on the pot.




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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Cactiphile] * 1
    #24676452 - 10/01/17 08:35 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

australian_dream said:
Quote:

ferrel_human said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Well I tasted a piece of one of my peruvianus today because it got root root so I cut it to re-root it and put a sliver in my mouth and it wasn't really noticeably bitter at all. This was a 3 year old seedling 4" tall and 1" diameter.




I have read conflicting stuff about the bitterness being an indication of alkaloids. I don't think its a good way to judge :shrug:




I have heard the complete opposite. Bitterness equals alkaloids. And its a reliable source.




This is science right here!




My issue with bitterness directly equating potency is there are other parts of plants that can be bitter aside from the alkaloids.

Surely plenty of inactive cacti are still bitter, I have even heard the bitterness can vary in the same plant at different times depending on environmental factors.

I believe I have also heard weak PC cacti can still be pretty bitter and I imagine some potent cacti aren't always super bitter, but I am just going off what I have read.

But for example things like plant waxes can be very bitter, maybe alkaloids add to the bitterness but it doesn't seem reliable.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
    #24676965 - 10/02/17 12:14 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
What about people's bitterness tolerance?
My dad will drink a triple IPA with a smile on his face. For me a triple IPA would be like sucking on a lemon.
The variables are everywhere.




I love ipas. I can drink them all day everyday. I cam handle bitter.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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Invisiblemilktruck
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: ferrel_human] * 1
    #24677008 - 10/02/17 12:43 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

sorry to bring it back up...

but in relevance to the bitterness.

A bitter cactus can very well be NON active.....

but no, the alkaloids themselves are also intensely bitter, ive eaten young peru cuts that tasted like cucumbers and produced no psychoactive effects whatsoever.


alkaloid production comes with age. But the age is going to be different for different plants from seed. Ive has 3-4 year old bridgesii send me to the moon, and 3-4 year old peruvianus do nothing. another 3-4 years later however that peruvianus may be easily more potent then the bridgesii.

ive heard claims from VERY reputable sources as well some of their peruvianus never even started making mescaline until they took a cutting, and the mother plant remains weakly active, but somewhat bitter, while the rooted clones are quite active, and intensely bitter. I have ONLY heard this in regards to peruvianus however so far, and that is the only cactus known to make ONLY mescaline as an alkaloid. which makes sense considering mescaline content specifically is what is known to raise with age and stress.

My angry bridgesii when brewed fresh is ok, potent, and speedy, but no visual activity, aged a couple months after cut before brew its intense visual and introspective. Which makes sense condiering the massive list of alkaloids present in bridgesii's, and mescaline is known to increase with aging or stress.

And alkaloid content definitely increases in aged unrooted cuttings.

the pachanoi from my lasst post is named LER....fresh cuts are really weak takes a couple feet per person, but aged a couple months they are fantastic. a fat 10 inches is more then enough for one large person like myself.


more research is needed to say really for sure what all the variable are that go into alkaloid production


But one thing is for sure, if it tastes like a cucumber, its not active

If its intensely bitter though, it probably is. theres a small chance it isnt if its the original seed grown mother and its a peruvianus or other big fat blue (so ive been told) but pretty unlikely


PC is one of the most bitter trichos you can get, and we all know how brewing that goes. However PC is VERY alkaloid rich, they just dont happen to be mescaline, or the other psychoactive/psychedelic phenethylamines or MAOI's present in the one we know and love. (i did have one succesful experience with PC< but it took almost 5 feet of LONG aged (over 6 months) cuttings brewed and reduced, was afull glass, the purge was heavy, and the trip was far weaker then some 10 inch aged bridgesii brews ive made)



What i have learned out of experience is, ALWAYS age your cuttings, they are more potent. And a bitter cactus CAN be inactive, and a non-bitter one NEVER is. Everything else is basically speculation.

If you ever get a mescaline drop, let it dissolve in your mouth, that bitterness will be VERY intense, and quite familiar lol, assuming you;ve had a potent, fully reduced brew before.


My theory is something has to kickstart alkaloid production, it's just more eaily done in some species then others. Bridgesii being the exception, ive had unaged cuttings from uncloned mother plants only a few years old produce fantastic experiences just taking the first pup once its big enough.

I mean hell, ive had bridgesii do this to my face for 12 hours straight....those little balls of love and energy can be gnarly.



Edited by milktruck (10/02/17 01:06 AM)


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OfflineDGB
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: milktruck]
    #24677142 - 10/02/17 03:13 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

i know when i licked my PC and penis plant i have to say the PC was more bitter.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: DGB] * 1
    #24677168 - 10/02/17 04:17 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DGB said:
i know when i licked my PC and penis plant i have to say the PC was more bitter.




You licked a penis.  :ahahaha:


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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Offlinenolongrlurkin
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #24677470 - 10/02/17 09:07 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Haha!! Yous guys! Cool info, milktruck!


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Edited by nolongrlurkin (10/02/17 09:07 AM)


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: nolongrlurkin] * 1
    #24677833 - 10/02/17 11:11 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Aged cuttings are the best. I like to cut them at least a few weeks beforehand​. I've had the best success with keeping them exposed to indirect light and picking them up and gently handling them daily. You want them to feel stress, but you also want them at maximum health. I would never keep them in total darkness.

From what I can tell, all strong cuttings are bitter, but some weak cuttings are too.


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OfflineRiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Grey Fox]
    #24678513 - 10/02/17 04:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
Aged cuttings are the best. I like to cut them at least a few weeks beforehand​. I've had the best success with keeping them exposed to indirect light and picking them up and gently handling them daily. You want them to feel stress, but you also want them at maximum health. I would never keep them in total darkness.

From what I can tell, all strong cuttings are bitter, but some weak cuttings are too.



:nodofunderstanding:
Yeah, I can get behind the logic of not all bitterness means potency but tasteless cacti are bound to be weak. If you assume all the alkaloids, including the inactive ones, are bitter, then depending on the alkoloid composition of a plant, only a certain amount of that bitterness is due to mescaline vs. other chemicals.

So do you guys think that the shock of cutting, the drying period while callousing and rooting the plant are triggers for mescaline production then? Seems to make sense. 
:philososloth:


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Edited by RiparianZoneJunky (10/02/17 04:07 PM)


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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: RiparianZoneJunky] * 2
    #24679131 - 10/02/17 07:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Some seedlings


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24679799 - 10/02/17 11:14 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

milktruck said:
yea, had two identical cuts of a bridgesii last year for consumption, one doses immediately, one left in a dresser drawer for months as i heard that stresses them into higher alkaloid production....


the aged one which was by then slightly paler and partially rooted, was NOTICEABLY WEAKER than the non aged one. i call shennanigans as well


would think it was busy working on other things lol

although i did find one bagseed cannabis plant a few years back that clones seemed to respond with somehow higher yields to having its branches super cropped, would stall behind non sc'd ones for a couple days, then blow past the un damaged ones quite quickly, and the sc'd branches had fatter nugs than the un-broken ones. eventually scrapped it as it banana'd really easy in flower

i would think this would apply to some but not all cacti and most other plant chemists as well maybe? which would explain some reporting it and some not, i think with cannabis that characteristic could be expplained by coming through natural selection in a very windy environment maybe?ones that respond to broken branches well would pass more DNA on to the following year





In this post you said ageing cuts didn't help. Now you say it does. What changed your mind?


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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24680233 - 10/03/17 06:33 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pinedownpioneer said:
Some seedlings





Some very lovely seedli,gs. How old?


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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