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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!



Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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Age regardless? So is a one week old seedling already making alkaloids?
-------------------- Plants Love To Think
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DualWieldRake
Stranger


Registered: 07/17/16
Posts: 1,115
Loc: Zone 8b
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
#24674718 - 10/01/17 09:20 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haven't found any information pointing in a different direction so this is what i assume
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phishphan2088
Gentile Larry David



Registered: 07/30/15
Posts: 352
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my two cents: The trichos are probably producing alkaloids not too long after germination however, The amount of plant tissue that is producing alkaloids is miniscule. Once they get bigger there is plenty of tissue making the alkaloids so potency might increase with age and level off at the potential of the genetics. That is my hypothesis.
-------------------- sucking at something is the first step in being kinda good at something

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phishphan2088
Gentile Larry David



Registered: 07/30/15
Posts: 352
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Forgot to share earlier... My Bridgesii x Pachanoi is preggers. She's having twins. She looks so angry. Originally it was grafted as a seedling. I think it has been on it's own roots since February. I think I stunted it keeping it in a 6 inch pot until last month.
 
-------------------- sucking at something is the first step in being kinda good at something

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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!



Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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Tom and Jerry
 They were 2 pups growing from the same level at the top of a Pachanoi stock so I cut right below them and rooted them as one
-------------------- Plants Love To Think
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Cactiphile
cactiphile



Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 1,734
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
#24676196 - 10/01/17 06:13 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ferrel_human said:
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musiclover420 said:
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Zombi3 said: Well I tasted a piece of one of my peruvianus today because it got root root so I cut it to re-root it and put a sliver in my mouth and it wasn't really noticeably bitter at all. This was a 3 year old seedling 4" tall and 1" diameter.
I have read conflicting stuff about the bitterness being an indication of alkaloids. I don't think its a good way to judge 
I have heard the complete opposite. Bitterness equals alkaloids. And its a reliable source.
This is science right here!
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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!



Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Cactiphile]
#24676216 - 10/01/17 06:26 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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What about people's bitterness tolerance? My dad will drink a triple IPA with a smile on his face. For me a triple IPA would be like sucking on a lemon. The variables are everywhere.
-------------------- Plants Love To Think
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pinedownpioneer


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3] 1
#24676392 - 10/01/17 08:10 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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More time growing and testing less time speculating.
-------------------- Trade list Need kratom? Message me now.
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pinedownpioneer


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Open pollinated 'Len' seedling Juuls x validus Grated seedling. Forgot which one it is but it's wrote on the pot.
-------------------- Trade list Need kratom? Message me now.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Cactiphile] 1
#24676452 - 10/01/17 08:35 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
australian_dream said:
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ferrel_human said:
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musiclover420 said:
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Zombi3 said: Well I tasted a piece of one of my peruvianus today because it got root root so I cut it to re-root it and put a sliver in my mouth and it wasn't really noticeably bitter at all. This was a 3 year old seedling 4" tall and 1" diameter.
I have read conflicting stuff about the bitterness being an indication of alkaloids. I don't think its a good way to judge 
I have heard the complete opposite. Bitterness equals alkaloids. And its a reliable source.
This is science right here!
My issue with bitterness directly equating potency is there are other parts of plants that can be bitter aside from the alkaloids.
Surely plenty of inactive cacti are still bitter, I have even heard the bitterness can vary in the same plant at different times depending on environmental factors.
I believe I have also heard weak PC cacti can still be pretty bitter and I imagine some potent cacti aren't always super bitter, but I am just going off what I have read.
But for example things like plant waxes can be very bitter, maybe alkaloids add to the bitterness but it doesn't seem reliable.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Zombi3]
#24676965 - 10/02/17 12:14 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zombi3 said: What about people's bitterness tolerance? My dad will drink a triple IPA with a smile on his face. For me a triple IPA would be like sucking on a lemon. The variables are everywhere.
I love ipas. I can drink them all day everyday. I cam handle bitter.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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milktruck
I don't actually exist



Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 426
Loc: It's all in your head
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: ferrel_human] 1
#24677008 - 10/02/17 12:43 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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sorry to bring it back up...
but in relevance to the bitterness.
A bitter cactus can very well be NON active.....
but no, the alkaloids themselves are also intensely bitter, ive eaten young peru cuts that tasted like cucumbers and produced no psychoactive effects whatsoever.
alkaloid production comes with age. But the age is going to be different for different plants from seed. Ive has 3-4 year old bridgesii send me to the moon, and 3-4 year old peruvianus do nothing. another 3-4 years later however that peruvianus may be easily more potent then the bridgesii.
ive heard claims from VERY reputable sources as well some of their peruvianus never even started making mescaline until they took a cutting, and the mother plant remains weakly active, but somewhat bitter, while the rooted clones are quite active, and intensely bitter. I have ONLY heard this in regards to peruvianus however so far, and that is the only cactus known to make ONLY mescaline as an alkaloid. which makes sense considering mescaline content specifically is what is known to raise with age and stress.
My angry bridgesii when brewed fresh is ok, potent, and speedy, but no visual activity, aged a couple months after cut before brew its intense visual and introspective. Which makes sense condiering the massive list of alkaloids present in bridgesii's, and mescaline is known to increase with aging or stress.
And alkaloid content definitely increases in aged unrooted cuttings.
the pachanoi from my lasst post is named LER....fresh cuts are really weak takes a couple feet per person, but aged a couple months they are fantastic. a fat 10 inches is more then enough for one large person like myself.
more research is needed to say really for sure what all the variable are that go into alkaloid production
But one thing is for sure, if it tastes like a cucumber, its not active
If its intensely bitter though, it probably is. theres a small chance it isnt if its the original seed grown mother and its a peruvianus or other big fat blue (so ive been told) but pretty unlikely
PC is one of the most bitter trichos you can get, and we all know how brewing that goes. However PC is VERY alkaloid rich, they just dont happen to be mescaline, or the other psychoactive/psychedelic phenethylamines or MAOI's present in the one we know and love. (i did have one succesful experience with PC< but it took almost 5 feet of LONG aged (over 6 months) cuttings brewed and reduced, was afull glass, the purge was heavy, and the trip was far weaker then some 10 inch aged bridgesii brews ive made)
What i have learned out of experience is, ALWAYS age your cuttings, they are more potent. And a bitter cactus CAN be inactive, and a non-bitter one NEVER is. Everything else is basically speculation.
If you ever get a mescaline drop, let it dissolve in your mouth, that bitterness will be VERY intense, and quite familiar lol, assuming you;ve had a potent, fully reduced brew before.
My theory is something has to kickstart alkaloid production, it's just more eaily done in some species then others. Bridgesii being the exception, ive had unaged cuttings from uncloned mother plants only a few years old produce fantastic experiences just taking the first pup once its big enough.
I mean hell, ive had bridgesii do this to my face for 12 hours straight....those little balls of love and energy can be gnarly.
Edited by milktruck (10/02/17 01:06 AM)
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DGB
Stranger
Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 437
Last seen: 9 months, 2 days
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: milktruck]
#24677142 - 10/02/17 03:13 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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i know when i licked my PC and penis plant i have to say the PC was more bitter.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: DGB] 1
#24677168 - 10/02/17 04:17 AM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DGB said: i know when i licked my PC and penis plant i have to say the PC was more bitter.
You licked a penis.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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nolongrlurkin
pre-shamanic warrior



Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 611
Loc: florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Haha!! Yous guys! Cool info, milktruck!
-------------------- Cannabis for the body, cubensis for the mind, cactus for the spirit.
Edited by nolongrlurkin (10/02/17 09:07 AM)
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Grey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
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Aged cuttings are the best. I like to cut them at least a few weeks beforehand​. I've had the best success with keeping them exposed to indirect light and picking them up and gently handling them daily. You want them to feel stress, but you also want them at maximum health. I would never keep them in total darkness.
From what I can tell, all strong cuttings are bitter, but some weak cuttings are too.
-------------------- IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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RiparianZoneJunky
hunter/gatherer



Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 3,055
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Trichocereus Growers Unite! [Re: Grey Fox]
#24678513 - 10/02/17 04:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grey Fox said: Aged cuttings are the best. I like to cut them at least a few weeks beforehand​. I've had the best success with keeping them exposed to indirect light and picking them up and gently handling them daily. You want them to feel stress, but you also want them at maximum health. I would never keep them in total darkness.
From what I can tell, all strong cuttings are bitter, but some weak cuttings are too.
 Yeah, I can get behind the logic of not all bitterness means potency but tasteless cacti are bound to be weak. If you assume all the alkaloids, including the inactive ones, are bitter, then depending on the alkoloid composition of a plant, only a certain amount of that bitterness is due to mescaline vs. other chemicals.
So do you guys think that the shock of cutting, the drying period while callousing and rooting the plant are triggers for mescaline production then? Seems to make sense.
Edited by RiparianZoneJunky (10/02/17 04:07 PM)
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pinedownpioneer


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Some seedlings
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pinedownpioneer


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Quote:
milktruck said: yea, had two identical cuts of a bridgesii last year for consumption, one doses immediately, one left in a dresser drawer for months as i heard that stresses them into higher alkaloid production....
the aged one which was by then slightly paler and partially rooted, was NOTICEABLY WEAKER than the non aged one. i call shennanigans as well
would think it was busy working on other things lol
although i did find one bagseed cannabis plant a few years back that clones seemed to respond with somehow higher yields to having its branches super cropped, would stall behind non sc'd ones for a couple days, then blow past the un damaged ones quite quickly, and the sc'd branches had fatter nugs than the un-broken ones. eventually scrapped it as it banana'd really easy in flower
i would think this would apply to some but not all cacti and most other plant chemists as well maybe? which would explain some reporting it and some not, i think with cannabis that characteristic could be expplained by coming through natural selection in a very windy environment maybe?ones that respond to broken branches well would pass more DNA on to the following year
In this post you said ageing cuts didn't help. Now you say it does. What changed your mind?
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,318
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
pinedownpioneer said: Some seedlings

Some very lovely seedli,gs. How old?
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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