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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
Registered: 04/22/12
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When to transfer morel cultures using agar?
#17993277 - 03/22/13 03:35 AM (11 years, 9 days ago) |
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A few days ago, I inoculated agar dishes with yellow morel liquid culture. Is it necessary to wait until the leading end edge begins to produce sclerotia before transferring a small section of it, or is this not the case?
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#17993297 - 03/22/13 03:45 AM (11 years, 9 days ago) |
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I don't believe that is the case. If it were me, I would shoot the culture into some grain jars
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CoupsDeGrace
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17993674 - 03/22/13 07:06 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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I am planning on using the agar to isolate a good fruiting strain, have to start some where though. Once I transfer the more aggressive strains once or twice, I will inoculate grain spawn using the agar wedges Then I can observe their fruiting capabilities. Going straight from LC to grain won't be able to achieve what I'm trying to accomplish.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Oeric McKenna
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#17993921 - 03/22/13 08:41 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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Morels fruit on agar???
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd
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Posts: 2,538
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17994310 - 03/22/13 10:31 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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No they don't
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TheApprentice
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#17995226 - 03/22/13 02:33 PM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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is anyone even successfully cultivating morels indoors?
-------------------- RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent * No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! * Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK "Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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Jeff
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#17995256 - 03/22/13 02:41 PM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
CoupsDeGrace said: A few days ago, I inoculated agar dishes with yellow morel liquid culture. Is it necessary to wait until the leading end edge begins to produce sclerotia before transferring a small section of it, or is this not the case?
Where did you get your culture from? If it is a commercial LC (not a MS) it is most likely already an isolate.
-------------------- Myco-tek
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Jeff]
#17997661 - 03/23/13 01:11 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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Both my black and blonde are done a plate in 3-4 days. my black its making nuggets!!
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Quote:
TheApprentice said: is anyone even successfully cultivating morels indoors?
Difficult, but yes.
Quote:
Jeff said:
Quote:
CoupsDeGrace said: A few days ago, I inoculated agar dishes with yellow morel liquid culture. Is it necessary to wait until the leading end edge begins to produce sclerotia before transferring a small section of it, or is this not the case?
Where did you get your culture from? If it is a commercial LC (not a MS) it is most likely already an isolate.
I was wondering if the LC would be an isolate before I shot them into the agar, but I didn't ask because it's my first time working with agar and needed to learn some way. I got my LC syringe from a trusted vendor that I found here on Shroomery.
If the LC is already an isolate, am I good to just take what I have already growing on agar straight to grain jars?
Quote:
psylosymonreturns said: Both my black and blonde are done a plate in 3-4 days. my black its making nuggets!!
Very nice! Wishing you great success when fruiting time comes.
Edited by CoupsDeGrace (03/23/13 03:59 AM)
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Jeff
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#17998751 - 03/23/13 10:42 AM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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I would take it directly to grain if it was me.
-------------------- Myco-tek
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Brain Fart
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18001174 - 03/23/13 09:26 PM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
CoupsDeGrace said:
Quote:
TheApprentice said: is anyone even successfully cultivating morels indoors?
Difficult, but yes.
Quote:
Jeff said:
Quote:
CoupsDeGrace said: A few days ago, I inoculated agar dishes with yellow morel liquid culture. Is it necessary to wait until the leading end edge begins to produce sclerotia before transferring a small section of it, or is this not the case?
Where did you get your culture from? If it is a commercial LC (not a MS) it is most likely already an isolate.
I was wondering if the LC would be an isolate before I shot them into the agar, but I didn't ask because it's my first time working with agar and needed to learn some way. I got my LC syringe from a trusted vendor that I found here on Shroomery.
If the LC is already an isolate, am I good to just take what I have already growing on agar straight to grain jars?
Quote:
psylosymonreturns said: Both my black and blonde are done a plate in 3-4 days. my black its making nuggets!!
Very nice! Wishing you great success when fruiting time comes.
Morel Mountain in Michigan was the only place that grew morels indoors, and that was an invasive species of Morel from Mexico that apparently didn't taste the same hence why Morel Mountain went out of business. Or so says the PhD Mycologist in the Mycological Society I belong to for my state
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18001764 - 03/24/13 12:27 AM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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Indoor isn't even on my radar really . I want to get as much mycelium and hopefully scletotia outside in the right habitat as possible this year and see what happens next.
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18002071 - 03/24/13 03:14 AM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Morel Mountain in Michigan was the only place that grew morels indoors, and that was an invasive species of Morel from Mexico that apparently didn't taste the same hence why Morel Mountain went out of business. Or so says the PhD Mycologist in the Mycological Society I belong to for my state
I found this pertaining to Gary Mill's method of moral cultivation:
There have been many attempts to unlock the secret of commercial morel cultivation. Most of these attempts have resulted in methods that are unreliable or simply don't work. Some hobbyists have occasional success with small mushroom patches started in yards, but this is not a commercially viable approach.
Mycologist Gary Mills has developed a procedure that is suitable for small scale culture and the method is in the public domain. Stewart Miller, who believed morels are mycorrhizal, has patented a method for establishing morel culture in association with the roots of elm trees.
Commercial cultivation has recently been achieved by a secretive company in Canada, although with the proliferation of information on the internet, it seems like anyone with the time and inclination should be able to grow them. A key step in cultivation is the formation of sclerotia,which are hard clumps of mycelium that act as resting bodies for the fungus. Once sclerotia form, a cold shock can initiate mushroom formation (McIntosh, 2010).
Suite101: Morchella, the Genus of Morel Mushrooms | Suite101 http://suite101.com/article/morchella-the-genus-of-morel-mushrooms-a120541#ixzz2ORkalcLI
Here is the method pioneered by Gary Mills, made public by George Robert Trager.
http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/morel.html
I plan to combine this method with previous knowledge of growing procedures and parameters to achieve some level of success indoors.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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TheApprentice
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18003308 - 03/24/13 11:54 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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I read that tek. I can't see why the scelrotia are the important piece to this puzzle.
They aren't being taken out of the tray and used in a different way.
basically, its just like growing any other mushroom?
they sterilize media. transfer to grain. spawn to substrate. cold shock and fruit.
what the f.
-------------------- RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent * No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! * Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK "Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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Brain Fart
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: TheApprentice]
#18008045 - 03/25/13 11:07 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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No there is a process of layering nutrients and non nutrient layers that are added and removed to achieve fruiting from sclerotia in RGS (Rye Grass Seed) and soil mixture..
They literally layer trays and add remove them in a manner that induces fruiting (Signaling the sclerotia that its time to fruit by removing the nutrient source and replacing it with nutrientless soil)
Its confusing to explain but you should read it more thoroughly. It is not necessarily as easy as growing other mushrooms, even if some of the procedures remain the same
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TheApprentice
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18008326 - 03/25/13 12:16 PM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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i couldn't see where they switched trays. i'll read it again
-------------------- RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent * No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! * Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK "Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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drake89
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: TheApprentice]
#18008665 - 03/25/13 01:15 PM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
TheApprentice said: i couldn't see where they switched trays. i'll read it again
not to be rude, but if it were really so cut and dry everyone would be doin it, amirite?
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18013044 - 03/26/13 08:40 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: No there is a process of layering nutriens and non nutrient layers that are added and removed to achieve fruiting from sclerotia in RGS (Rye Grass Seed) and soil mixture..
They literally layer trays and add remove them in a manner that induces fruiting (Signaling the sclerotia that its time to fruit by removing the nutrient source and replacing it with nutrientless soil)
Its confusing to explain but you should read it more thoroughly. It is not necessarily as easy as growing other mushrooms, even if some of the procedures remain the same
I was under the impression that that is how you actually form the sclerotia not fruit it.?? Grow through nutricious sub then layer a non nutricious casing to induce stones. I am testing things ATM. To fruit them requires months of temp changes and humidity changes.
Getting them to fruit must be hard but producing the myc is the easiest ever!
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18013258 - 03/26/13 10:08 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: No there is a process of layering nutrients and non nutrient layers that are added and removed to achieve fruiting from sclerotia in RGS (Rye Grass Seed) and soil mixture..
They literally layer trays and add remove them in a manner that induces fruiting (Signaling the sclerotia that its time to fruit by removing the nutrient source and replacing it with nutrientless soil)
Its confusing to explain but you should read it more thoroughly. It is not necessarily as easy as growing other mushrooms, even if some of the procedures remain the same
What you have described is simply a way to exploit the morel's natural defenses and uncanny ability to create knew life. I'll try my best to elaborate, for those of you that are unfamiliar with the niche that morels serve in the forest.
The morel's true time to shine is after a forest fire, when all life is charred and the top soil is barren of life. So comes their natural niche, to help rebuild the forest and revitalize the soil. The secret to the morel's success in this scenario is their sclerotia, a very compact form of mycelial mass that is resistant to the heat of the fire.
Just as Brain Fart described, the sclerotia allows the mycelial colony to persist, colonize through the non nutritive charred layer of soil, and fruit. While his statement is correct, my research doesn't place the layering of nutritive and non nutritive substrates as a important or even essential part of fruiting morels, but rather a way to prompt sclerotia formation. In the procedure I posted, the substrate tray with added morel spawn only 'rests' on top of the tray of rye grass seed during colonization. After colonization of the substrate, the rye grass seed tray is simply removed (before the substrate is chilled). I'm not sure how the rye grass seed would have a profound effect if it is only rested on by the substrate tray during colonization.
My research has shown the most influential factors to fruiting morels are:
1. The chill before fruiting (~ 14 days) - This step helps to stimulate the cold winter season that comes before spring time, morel season.
2. Re-hydrating the substrate with 65 F-70 F water - Helps to further duplicate the morel's natural cycle by imitating the warmer spring showers that trigger the morels to fruit in their natural season.
3. Add a casing layer. Although the posted procedure deems this step as optional, it works off the same principles as Brain Fart mentioned. Once the mycelium reaches the non nutritive casing layer, it could help to trigger fruiting.
4. Like any type of mushroom cultivation, fruiting requires specific levels of humidity, temperature, and fresh air exchanges.
All of these points combined help to reproduce the morel's natural environment and increases their chances of fruiting successfully indoors. I hope this information helps any aspiring morel cultivator.
Back on topic. I feel that I haven't received a definite answer to whether or not my LC is an isolate, so I'll be continuing my agar work. Even if it is already an isolate, I see it as an opportunity to learn and polish my skills, and hopefully I'll arrive at a definite answer to my question through experimentation. As soon as I construct my first glove box, which I plan to do today or tomorrow, I will be making my first transfers.
And psylosymonreturns, best of luck to you. Do you have a thread documenting your progress?
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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TheApprentice
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18013290 - 03/26/13 10:14 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Thank you for taking the time to explain that to the community. Great information.
5 shrooms for you.
-------------------- RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent * No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! * Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK "Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18013321 - 03/26/13 10:21 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
CoupsDeGrace said: [
And psylosymonreturns, best of luck to you. Do you have a thread documenting your progress?
yes I do . I am about to take some new pics of my black morel plates that have more nuggets than a gold stream in Alaska!!! some fair sized pickers too. so when i update it i will let you know. And Im producing blonde myc like nuts though! about to put a grain jar to a bag of sterilized chips and sawdust tonight . Although this myc is so fast i bet pasturizing is sufficient and i will experiment with that as well. I have so many grain jars i have to use!
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: TheApprentice]
#18013326 - 03/26/13 10:22 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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You're very welcome, I hope that I was able to aid your understanding of morel cultivation. It is the difficulty of fruiting a morel indoors that sets it apart from many other species of mushroom (duplicating their natural environment).
And thank you for the shrooms!
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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That's great! I'll definitely have to locate your thread and follow.
My agar dishes have been going for over a week now, with no sclerotia formation. I hope to transfer them before sclerotia production begins.
I plan to do a monotub style grow with the morels. I may create a log once I have some pictures and progress worth posting.
Happy cultivating!
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
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Loc: Mos Eisley,
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18013399 - 03/26/13 10:51 AM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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morel mono tubs!! thats super cool! i wish you luck too and will definetly be following!
what species are you using?
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Thank you, I'm going to need it. After reading some in-depth information, I've realized that identifying the exact fruiting and sclerotia formation parameters of morels is definitely the hang up that has stumped scientists for years. I feel that it will take me some time to dial in the exact sclerotia producing and fruiting environments before I have any type of success.
I used a liquid culture of morchella esculenta (yellow sponge) to inoculate my agar dishes.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18014776 - 03/26/13 04:14 PM (11 years, 4 days ago) |
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Make a jar with a layer of grass seed on the bottom, a small window screen cut to the inside diam. Of the jar, and then a layer of leached soil on top. This allows the myc. To grow down to the seed and produce sclerotia in the non nutricious soil. They wont form good sized sclerotia otherwise. The grain should be about an inch and the soil on top should be about 4 inches. natural soil would be ideal, not potting soil. Idea is for it to be fairly nutrient poor as this is the sclerotia forming trigger. They acqurie nutrients from the seed and from sclerotia in the soil. Good luck! Feel free to ask if you have more ?s. Or if you need me to clarify. MH.
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CoupsDeGrace
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18017919 - 03/27/13 08:35 AM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
metalhead said: Make a jar with a layer of grass seed on the bottom, a small window screen cut to the inside diam. Of the jar, and then a layer of leached soil on top. This allows the myc. To grow down to the seed and produce sclerotia in the non nutricious soil. They wont form good sized sclerotia otherwise. The grain should be about an inch and the soil on top should be about 4 inches. natural soil would be ideal, not potting soil. Idea is for it to be fairly nutrient poor as this is the sclerotia forming trigger. They acqurie nutrients from the seed and from sclerotia in the soil. Good luck! Feel free to ask if you have more ?s. Or if you need me to clarify. MH.
Thanks a lot for the clarification MH, although I do have a couple more thoughts that came to mind.
What is the purpose of the screen between the nutritive and non nutritive mediums?
In fear of being unable to find the right type of soil, concerning pH level and aeration, would a 50/50 mixture of peat moss and verm with some added gypsum suffice? Or would the gypsum possibly ruin the non nutritive aspect of the mixture?
If all is well, I plan to inoculate quart jars that are 1/5 of wbs (properly prepared of course) as the bottom layer and 4/5 of the previously mention mixture as the top layer (50/50 verm/peat moss + gypsum).
Thank you for enlightening me.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Brain Fart
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18018004 - 03/27/13 09:09 AM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
metalhead said: natural soil would be ideal, not potting soil. Idea is for it to be fairly nutrient poor as this is the sclerotia forming trigger. .
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18018172 - 03/27/13 10:01 AM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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W bs will work ok. I have used it with success. Seems lile the grass seed worked slightly better although. as for soil, I used soil that was from around where I find morels in my area. I just drain it once. potting soil will work fine if its got no additives such as fert. Organic would work. The ideal soil has proportions of sand, small ammount of hardwood chips, and soil. Remember the soil doesnt have to be void of nutrients, it just has to have less then the grain. And screen is for ease of separating soil from the grain.
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CoupsDeGrace
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18020163 - 03/27/13 05:29 PM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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Great, thank you so much for being so helpful. I'll probably try to make my own mixture that may include verm, peat moss, organic potting soil, wood chips/shavings, saw dust, sand, and gypsum, depending on what I can find.
What is the purpose of separating the two layers? Is the bottom layer of seed simply thrown out? I'm assuming the seed would be mycelium laden, why is it wasted?
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Sillyputty67
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18020232 - 03/27/13 05:43 PM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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I read that tek last year sometime, as my basic skills were building.
I came up with a gameplan. You need a large chest freezer, a small heater, humidifier, lights, and a couple of controllers (Humidity, and dual heat/cold programmable controller.) Arduino or x10 would be ideal, but are overkill. Simple controllers are available on ebay.
Put all this together= emulated outdoor fruiting chamber.
You just hit the interwebs and look up the daily temp flux for the time of year, and zone you are trying to emulate.
I postulate once you worked your timings out, you could put any outdoor variety in there.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
Edited by Sillyputty67 (03/27/13 05:54 PM)
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18020379 - 03/27/13 06:21 PM (11 years, 3 days ago) |
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Sclerotia only forms in the soil which is what you want to keep. The fruits are grown from the sclerotia not the mycelium its self. Sclerotia are a means of survival and reproduction. They can be almost completely dried out To the point of flamability and when mositure is reintroduced they will either produce a fruit or go back into veg. And produce more myc/ sclerotia. Depending on the conditions. So they are the key they will produce more myc/ and fruits if the conditions are right. Thats why the grain is discarded.
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CoupsDeGrace
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18022852 - 03/28/13 08:21 AM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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Sounds great MH. Thanks to your assistance, I've gathered that sclerotia is the key to producing morels.
After making sense of all of this, I've realized that your procedure differs from the (Gary Mill's) method that I posted earlier in this thread. You are suggesting to use layers (4:1 potting soil:grain) to prompt sclerotia production in the colonization of jars; while Gary Mill's method instructs to create a mixture of 1 part potting soil and 5 parts grain for colonizing jars, with some sclerotia forming after ~5 weeks. He then uses the layer method to prompt sclerotia formation during the colonization of the fruiting substrate by placing it on top of a tray of grain (4:1 or 2:1 substrate:grain).
More simply stated, you suggested layering to produce sclerotia during jar colonization, while Gary Mill's method prompts sclerotia production, using layers, during the colonization of the fruiting substrate.
Now, after that long-winded comparison of procedures, I arrive at my next questions.
1. Have you followed Gary Mill's procedure of layering to prompt sclerotia production, only during the colonization of the fruiting substrate, with any success? Or did you find sclerotia production parameters introduced in the jar colonization phase to yield better results?
2. Have you considered layering in both phases (jar and fruiting substrate colonization) to prompt even more sclerotia production?
As an example for the latter, this is what I envisioned:
Do as you suggested, layering jarred substrates (less nutritive soil mixture on top, with the higher nutritive grain layer on bottom (4:1), separated by a screen) to prompt sclerotia production while the jars are colonizing. Once the jars are ready, separate the layers and spawn the sclerotia rich layer to a monotub that consists of a moderately nutritious fruiting substrate atop a layer of grain (most likely 4:1, respectively), separated by a screen.
3. Since I plan on using a monotub set up, the bottom layer of grain would be nearly impossible to remove, without exposing my substrate to massive amounts of contaminants and damaging the mycelium. Would it be detrimental to my yield if I left the grain as the bottom layer of my mono when I do the chill and introduce into fruiting conditions?
I suppose there is a way for me separate the layers after colonization of the fruiting substrate (I can elaborate if you so choose), but I cannot fathom why having a layer of colonized grain at the bottom of my fruiting substrate would hinder the fruiting process, if I already had copious amounts of sclerotia formed in the top layer.
I'm sorry for being so lengthy and possibly convoluted, if you need me to reiterate on anything, please let me know and I'll try my best.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Sillyputty67
Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18022881 - 03/28/13 08:31 AM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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This is great stuff guy's. This thread needs to be sticky, and a good indoor morel growing tek (tried and true) on the shroomery needs to come of this.
Too many folk just like us are in need badly.
Im certain there are umpteen thousand ways to do this, but we need to find the cheapest simplest tek, that our hive mind can work out together.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
Edited by Sillyputty67 (03/28/13 08:33 AM)
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metalhead
GIT-R-DONE!
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18023125 - 03/28/13 09:58 AM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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If you are refering to mills procedureas in "the farm" step by step pictorial that he did a while ago, I am convinced that his run down of that is bull shit. I and several others have tried to reproduce that method to the dot. With no avail. I do not believe for a second that mills would give up all his tricks in there. The procedure is there, but he left key things out. And I kno for a fact that his jars are layered as well. I watched the pbs special called scientific american fronteirs. That is what that pictorial is based off of. In the video you can see mills emptying jars into the trays. They are clearly layered. Otherwise sclerotia wouldnt for. And the key to mills success is a different strain of morel. Less susceptabe to environment as a fruiting trigger. It is morchella rufobrunnea. I dont kno what happened with mills tho he isnt at it anymore as far as im aware. And yes the best way is layered in both the jars and tje fruting trays.
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18023160 - 03/28/13 10:07 AM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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And,on the grain thing I have also used aluminum foil perforated to sepparate the grains. Worked well. And the fruiting key(or one anyways) is substrate being void of nutrients. A means of reproduction and survival. I do not kno if a little grain will effect it but I guess you will find out lol. And for the trays they are layered. A tray on the top perforated with holes that is filled with soil. The bottom is filled with grain. Top is sat on the bottom tray and the is removed once the tray is induced into fruiting after sclerotia run. git-r-done!
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18023415 - 03/28/13 11:20 AM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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Thank you so much MH for bringing all of this together for me. After reading the first five or so pages of the morel cultivation thread that you had started over four years ago, I saw some discussion about Mill's and others' attempts to keep the juiciest details of morel cultivation a secret. It was also very interesting to see that you were asking AcidHorse many of the same questions that you have so generously answered for me.
Without a doubt, I will be layering both my jarred and fruiting substrates to achieve maximal sclerotia production. I will also attempt to remove the upper fruiting substrate from the lower layer of grain before I induce fruiting conditions. If I am unsuccessful this round, I will, without a doubt, give morchella rufobrunnea a go.
Thank you so much for all your help! As I continue guiding my morel cultures through their life cycle, I'm sure you'll hear more from me.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18026490 - 03/28/13 10:38 PM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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Not a problem man! Im glad to give any advice I can. Its a hard rocky road to success but when you get victory it will be sweet! Keep us updated and ask as many questions as you need. Im glad to help. Ive been at the same stage as you are and its kind of overwhelming but its doable. Best of luck to ya! Im still working with morels as well right now and ill post when I have news. Good to see somebody else thats goin for such a seemingly impossible feat. But we will get it. The more working on it the better. Git-r-done!
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18026583 - 03/28/13 11:04 PM (11 years, 2 days ago) |
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Do you have pics of sclerotia you grew?
I am wondering what color blond stones should be? Seems there may be something happening in the jars that I cased with potting soil!
And my black plate is looking great!! So many little stones now! just stetilizung some grain right now to noc up!! cant wait! And tonight im noccing up a big bag of sterilized mixxed maple/alder chips and fir sawdust . planning on producing shitloads for outdoor noccing!
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metalhead
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I do not have pics atm but my m. Elata sclerotia started out white masses, turned orange then finally brown with maturity. I was able to get the largest stones with m. Ruforbrunnea.
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18032758 - 03/30/13 12:30 PM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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Actually I guess I do lol
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18032765 - 03/30/13 12:33 PM (11 years, 15 hours ago) |
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Sorry their blurry. Shitty camera. But ya can see em and get the idea of what ur lookin for
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18041354 - 04/01/13 06:45 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I enjoy your enthusiasm. Thanks again for being so helpful!
Have you had any success fruiting any morel indoors? And if so, which variety?
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18041731 - 04/01/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have never got them to fruit out fully to maturity. I have had what I believe to be primordia but they did not follow through. My biggest success has been forming good sized sclerotia. My focus now is on developing a fruiting strategy/ trigger. Does not help that my rufobrunnea culture has been lost.
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NSF
Eager to learn
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18043891 - 04/01/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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If I had a rufobrunnea culture I'd get it to you! Keep up the positive attitude, experimentation and innovation. I hope you can get this sorted.
Have you tried the 'winter' cold spell for some grows?
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: NSF]
#18044058 - 04/01/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Chilling is a must to get em to fruit I believe. And im workin on gettin one now. Thanks man! But I do believe theres a certain bacteria, or something simmilar that is key. They need a plant host to fruit I believe and the plant gives them something. Its a matter of what. On a different note I found a good ammount of black morels today. The season is here!
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18044287 - 04/01/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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most of them i found were growing directly from the base of the little plants as you can see in the pictures. ima take a few of the plants and try a few experiments with the fruiting trays when i get to that point again.
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
Registered: 04/22/12
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18045195 - 04/02/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Very nice! Excellent finds! What region of the U.S. are your foraging grounds?
I'm a little disappointed you haven't had much success fruiting, it makes the task at hand seem even more daunting. If I am unable to fruit my current batch of yellow morels, I'll have to give the rufo's a try. Ralphster has some rufo LC available, if you haven't checked them out yet. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18045497 - 04/02/13 08:53 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Are those some kind of nettles? I find mine sometimes in stinging nettles and other lush green foilage.
They prefer the soil around my elm ash and cherry trees. I have one apple tree thats dead where they like to pop up also.
They seem to be wherever the moisture is, usually that means green moss
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: Brain Fart]
#18045916 - 04/02/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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im not sure what kind of plants they are. Kind of look like some kind of nettle tho. Not stinging nettle tho. If somebody could id them that would be cool. But the morels sure love them. And nor cal is where my morel finds are taking place.
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CoupsDeGrace
PsychoMyco
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead]
#18045968 - 04/02/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow! North California? I'm very eastward in comparison. I surmise that my morel season will be in full swing in a month or so.
Best of luck to you and enjoy!
-------------------- Juan with the shroom
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metalhead
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: CoupsDeGrace]
#18046088 - 04/02/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks man! Same to ya. Its always april 1st here that I find em for the first time.
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NSF
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: metalhead] 1
#18052915 - 04/03/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Should you be keeping an eye on soil type, soil granularity, slope, micro topography and aspect?
In my limited hunting experience soil type and weather band are critical for seasonal morels. Fire morels seem to spread down ruts where heavy rains have just been.
Also, pay attention to sun exposure, are the morels you find hidden in dark shady places or do they have exposure to the sun?
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Brain Fart
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Re: When to transfer morel cultures using agar? [Re: NSF]
#18054425 - 04/03/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I found my first on April 7th last year. But that was a month early for us. In Wisconsin our normal morel season falls right about mid may after mothers day.
When the lilacs and mayapples blossom my ass is in the woods on my hands and knees army crawling the forest floor
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