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TrippnBB
Shroomer



Registered: 02/10/12
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Which type of LC is best
#17992060 - 03/21/13 09:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok so right now Im in the middle of deciding how I should make my LC. Should I make a LC with a piece of colonized grain or should I just make the Mycellium Water from a colonized jar? Does anyone know which would be better to use ? Thanks
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Pinkus_Trip



Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 492
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: TrippnBB]
#17992120 - 03/21/13 09:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would go with a piece of colonized grain....I have even used a piece of a shroom before
Edited by Pinkus_Trip (03/21/13 09:39 PM)
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SpitballJedi
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: TrippnBB]
#17992124 - 03/21/13 09:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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They both have their pros and cons, mostly cons.
But, if someone put a gun to my head and said I have to choose, I would go with the 1 grain in a LME LC and then spawn the rest of the jar or use it for G2G.
If I were to make any type of LC, it would be from agar with myceleum I know I want a butt load of. ALC (Agar Liquid Culture)
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TrippnBB
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Thanks guys that really helped Im gonna try the piece of colonized grain so I don't have to waste the whole jar and then def trying the agar LC
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: TrippnBB] 1
#17992322 - 03/21/13 10:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
TrippnBB said: Which type of LC is best
The clean type.
And since there is no way to tell if the LC is clean or not by visual inspection, test jars must be shot up and fruited.
It would be much more cost/time effective if you research agar and G2G transfers.
I could possibly have 100 quart jars colonized and ready to spawn by the time you get done with your test jars and knock up your first real set of jars.
Just saying.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
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OddiT


Registered: 11/25/12
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17992374 - 03/21/13 10:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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i'll never make a LC again.
G2G is the best thing EVER. it makes my life so much easier. i had so many contams with LC, then i pulled off a miracle with G2G the first time i ever did it, and i was sold. (i made a half pint rye jar turn into 7-10 dry pounds)
been doin G2G ever since. i dont have a flow hood or SAB. i have a tiny closet and know how to use lysol, face masks, and gloves. being quick helps too.
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first time expert
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17992386 - 03/21/13 10:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Agar really that much faster than lc? Good thing I started screwing around with agar and not lc huh? As I said I couldn't buy any more supplies (bc of the wife) so I made an oatmeal agar and put 1 drop of ms in my jars. There is a little bit of runny liquid on the surface, do you think this is just condensation? The reason I tried oatmeal is bc I read pans grow best on oatmeal, is this true? and is oatmeal alright for my first time?
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PussyFart
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It's not a speed thing, it's a contam risk factor thing.
If an agar plate contams, chances are you can transfer away from said contam, to a new dish, and save the culture.
If a LC contams, you have to throw it away and start over, there is no transferring away from it. Just wasted your time.
Not to mention you will not know if an LC is good or bad until you grow it out, where as it is obvious as day if agar contams.
And it's because of this, and the fact that LC test jars have to be shot up and grown out, that makes agar and G2G soo much faster and better.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (03/21/13 10:57 PM)
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FuckUp Eddy
Mad Scientist



Registered: 10/29/12
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If you are going to do a grain LC, just make sure you put some extra thought into the lid on the jar containing the colonized grain (see agar's grain LC tek thread). You could even do multispore to grain, then let colonize, then extract mycelium laden water afterwards...if you are just starting and worried about contamination g2g or agar to grain.
You can get bigger syringes at places like Tractor Supply, if they have those in your area. They are really supposed to be for shooting up horses and not substrate jars, but hey! Different strokes. Just get the biggest syringe and biggest needles to go with them. I just bought a 30ml, only because they didn't have the elephant sticker.
I don't have a flow hood, but I always use either (new products) Lysol Nutra-Air, or Glade air sanitizer (comes in a blue can). Lowes carries these and even places you wouldn't think...like even "dollar general." Using these products EVERY time is a big part of the recipe for successful experiments. If you are going to be in the hobby for at least a year, then do yourself a favor and buy ten cans of the shit right off the bat just so you get in the habit of never cutting corners. The glade product is way cheaper than the Lysol Nutra-Air.
I'm about to get a grain LC going here shortly myself. Good luck to us both!
-------------------- If you havent played with this then you are missin out! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/zoomquilt
Also good video!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6x_m4zvFs
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PussyFart
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: FuckUp Eddy]
#17992522 - 03/21/13 11:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: If you are going to do a grain LC, just make sure you put some extra thought into the lid on the jar containing the colonized grain (see agar's grain LC tek thread). You could even do multispore to grain, then let colonize, then extract mycelium laden water afterwards...if you are just starting and worried about contamination g2g or agar to grain.
What? What would be the point of going from grains, to LC, to only go back to to grains?
Sounds to me like an unneeded risk for contams, when you could have just done a G2G transfer and been done a month ago.
To me this just makes no sense. Unless you plan on knocking up cakes with the LC, you are just wasting time and adding risk.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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FuckUp Eddy
Mad Scientist



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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17992604 - 03/21/13 11:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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More chance of contams with grain to grain as opposed to what I just mentioned. Only thing exposed during the whole process is the needle, which is flame sterilized in between inoculations. Also, he wouldn't have to use a whole spore syringe to knock up grain jars, or risk contamination in regard to having every jar lid open at one point or another.
Notice I implied IF he wasn't confident enough doing grain to grain...this was an option.
So let me make everyone happy. Do grain LC, knock up a cake to ensure that its clean, then store properly. Or just do grain to grain if you are comfortable doing so at this point.
-------------------- If you havent played with this then you are missin out! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/zoomquilt
Also good video!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6x_m4zvFs
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: FuckUp Eddy]
#17992627 - 03/21/13 11:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: More chance of contams with grain to grain as opposed to what I just mentioned.
Not true at all, G2G transfers get done in a SAB(Still Air Box), and if you have good sterile technique, there is 0 risk.
The entire point of a SAB is to have a still air environment, if the air is still, how can a contam possibly blow into your jar? Where is the added risk?
Unless you are talking about doing G2G in open air, which isn't recommended anyways, and does add more risk than needed. There is no risk in opening a jar in a still air environment, as long as you practice good sterile technique.
There is not a single Trusted Cultivator that would recommend an LC of any kind over doing G2G transfers in a SAB.
G2G FTW!
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (03/21/13 11:48 PM)
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FuckUp Eddy
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17993213 - 03/22/13 02:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Inoculations present less chance for contams, and there are many trusted cultivators that put out teks for lc's. Why would they bother if it has little use, or should only be for cakes?
I had a chance to catch the RR videos, and you will notice that he stresses sterile procedure much more during the creation of master culture slants etc. When inoculating they did so in a glove box, not in front of the flow hood. In the video, grain 2 grain and slants were done in front of a flow hood. Why would they differentiate?
To each his own. No need to argue about what method is best. That's all subjective. If you disagree fine, but some find lc useful. And he was after all asking about liquid culture.
-------------------- If you havent played with this then you are missin out! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/zoomquilt
Also good video!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6x_m4zvFs
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PussyFart
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: FuckUp Eddy]
#17993268 - 03/22/13 03:30 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: Inoculations present less chance for contams, and there are many trusted cultivators that put out teks for lc's. Why would they bother if it has little use, or should only be for cakes?
I never said LCs had little use, the argument was that G2G transfers are less risky than LCs or GLCs, and they are.
Simply pouring grains from one jar to another, in a clean, still air environment, or in front of a laminar flow hood, is much less risky than making a GLC to then inoculate more grain jars.
Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: I had a chance to catch the RR videos, and you will notice that he stresses sterile procedure much more during the creation of master culture slants etc. When inoculating they did so in a glove box, not in front of the flow hood. In the video, grain 2 grain and slants were done in front of a flow hood. Why would they differentiate?
Because that's just what they did, this does not make it impossible to do in a SAB.
Here is a TC that is doing just that. He also goes into saying he does all of his agar work in the SAB as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDIIl84UhWU
How to do Grain to Grain (G2G) Transfers in a Still-Air Box (SAB)
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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FuckUp Eddy
Mad Scientist



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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17995194 - 03/22/13 02:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok, we can agree to disagree. No big deal. The LC itself in general is probably pretty risky, but I suggest that a clean LC extracted and used as an inoculum could be less risky as it is not in contact with open air(maybe only the tip of the needle tube itself exposed, which is thoroughly flamed.)This excludes screwing up ones water content in the receiving jar. As someone stated above, it has its ups and downs.
But honestly, what I got from the video was that extra measures/every measure possible was to be taken in regard to the making of slants. This led me to believe that there are situations where greater measures of sterile procedure must be taken. I didn't see it as just something they did. I saw it as greater emphasis on sterile procedure being placed depending on the procedure. Now, obviously sterile procedures should be observed no matter what the procedure, but I don't feel the need to don a tyvek suit and do work in front of a flow hood, in a closet, if I'm only knocking up jars with spores etc. When I do grain to grain etc., I take extra measures, such as even wiping down walls etc. I'm not going to wipe down the walls for an inoculation, and there is a reason for that. Inoculations are less risky, but that shouldn't make one complacent.
-------------------- If you havent played with this then you are missin out! http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/zoomquilt
Also good video!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6x_m4zvFs
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: FuckUp Eddy]
#17995287 - 03/22/13 02:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: I suggest that a clean LC extracted and used as an inoculum could be less risky as it is not in contact with open air
G2G transfers are not done in open air. 
Quote:
FuckUp Eddy said: When I do grain to grain etc., I take extra measures, such as even wiping down walls etc.
I don't even do that, I just clean my immediate area, and anything that goes into the SAB.
Other than that I work in a room with 20 year old carpet, I have 2 dogs and 2 cats, and this house is a dust trap.
You could put me in a room full of trich, with a SAB and 100 jars and some alcohol.
I would do 10 G2G transfers and still come out a winner.
Sure there was more "emphasis" put into sterile procedure in those videos, but they had the equipment to do so.
This equipment is not needed tho, because there are other ways that work just as well, if not better.
My SAB does not run up the electric bill, nor does it take an hour to "scrub the air" before working, yet I have a 100% success rate working with slants and agar dishes.
To each there own, but GLCs are not less risky than a G2G transfer in a SAB.
GLCs are more work for the same, if not less payoff when compared to G2G.
Try both ways, then decide. I did.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (03/22/13 02:50 PM)
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first time expert
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Re: Which type of LC is best [Re: PussyFart]
#17995306 - 03/22/13 02:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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have you ever done a g2g with spawn bags? I have 4 bags that are like 90% and wanted to transfer to some 1.5 qt jars, I should be able to do it in my sab with any contam issues.
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SpitballJedi
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G2G with bags takes finesse.
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first time expert
practice makes perfect



Registered: 02/19/13
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ASQuote:
SpitballJedi said: G2G with bags takes finesse.
Meaning its a pain in the ass? I can picture it, scooping out grain and plooping it in a jar, and trying to work fast meanwhile.
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SpitballJedi
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Yes, a PITA. at least when I tried to do it.
Personally, I've always felt that sticking anything in my grain was a bad idea. Whether it be spoons, hands, or whatever and sterilized or not and in front of a flowhood or in a SAB, or whatever. If I can't just pour it, I don't like it.
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A little civility goes a long way
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