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 User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
 
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location 
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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 Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please!  [Re: Joust]
#17974173 - 03/18/13 01:27 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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The scope's arrived but I have some bad news.
I didn't realise you used ~115V in the US. I just ran ~220V through my power supply. I guess it's basically a variable transformer, it's input is 115V and it's output is 4.5-7.5V. I don't know if the output is AC or DC?
I got a very loud buzz and a smell like burning plastic, doesn't sound good I know. I will get a step-down transformer for it, but I fear it may be too late...
Does anyone know anything about electricity? What damage is likely to be done by running 220V through a 115V supply? Is it a variable transformer that I have? Will the current have got through and fucked my bulb? Is there a more generic part I can replace this with?
I guess I'll make a post on some electrical forum.
Shit 
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Anglerfish
hearing things
Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,767
Loc: Norvegr 
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17974320 - 03/18/13 01:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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You should get a voltage transformer. There are relatively cheap and not-so-cheap
alternatives. Smell of burnt plastic is not necessarily a good sign. However you can
hope it is only an internal fuse that should be sitting just behind where the power
cord is attached to the scope. Or is it an external power supply?
Hopefully nothing vital is damaged.
--------------------
 ★★★★★
Edited by Anglerfish (03/18/13 01:57 PM)
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 bloodworm
cube con·nois·seur
Registered: 05/22/10
Posts: 10,926
Loc: 352
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Anglerfish]
#17974409 - 03/18/13 02:19 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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i bet it was the fuse.
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Gravija
Make way for the cavalcade
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Chicago, Illinois, USA
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17974451 - 03/18/13 02:28 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
User_7 said:
The scope's arrived but I have some bad news.
I didn't realise you used ~115V in the US. I just ran ~220V through my power supply. I guess it's basically a variable transformer, it's input is 115V and it's output is 4.5-7.5V. I don't know if the output is AC or DC?
I got a very loud buzz and a smell like burning plastic, doesn't sound good I know. I will get a step-down transformer for it, but I fear it may be too late...
Does anyone know anything about electricity? What damage is likely to be done by running 220V through a 115V supply? Is it a variable transformer that I have? Will the current have got through and fucked my bulb? Is there a more generic part I can replace this with?
I guess I'll make a post on some electrical forum.
Shit
Yeah, your going to need a new PS. It's not a hard repair.
--------------------
Listen to my music Here
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Gravija]
#17974729 - 03/18/13 03:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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There was an indication light illuminated on the power supply and the buzzing noise didn't stop until I turned the power off so I don't think I was protected by a fuse. My understanding is that a fuse will protect you from excess current, but I don't know if voltage will be covered. I can't see a fuse anywhere anyway and one way or another, I'm sure this is a more serious problem 
The power supply is external, yes - as shown here:
My slides & reagents haven't arrived yet and I don't have a camera or any real subjects for that matter... all that with a broken power supply has made my scope's arrival somewhat of an anti-climax.
Undeterred I came up with a ghetto solution to have a look through. With a florescent desk lamp, chesmisty watch glass and some mildew spores scraped off bread I managed to get some decent views. Holding my camera up to the lens I produced a crude shot of a few spores 
 
Erysiphales at 450x 
Please bear in mind my limitations when examining the quality of this shot 
I just found a little more information about the power supply. It's not a variable transformer, it's a 110V to 6.5V, 2.75 amp transformer, with a variable rheostat (resistor). So it must achieve a range of voltages through the resistor. Still don't know if there's any DC involved. Also there are two cables coming from it. One to the lamp at the bottom, and the other goes to where the two sets of oculars join and has a funny little switch next to it. Anyone know what this second set of power is for?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17975725 - 03/18/13 06:37 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those power supplies are common, my Ziess has the same thing. You can replace it with any power supply that can give the same voltage and current. You can usually look at a bulb to see if it is blown.
You could replace that power supply with a fixed voltage one, and use the condensor diaphram instead of dimming the brightness. Another way to dim the brightness is to use two polarized sheets in the light path, and turn them until the light is at a good level.
It would be a good idea to take apart the power supply and see if you can tell where the burning smell came from. Also post a couple pics of the inside of the power supply, and check the fuse.
You can check the coils of the main transformer with an ohmmeter.
What bulb does the scope take? What voltage is it rated for, and how much current does it draw? If I know these things I can find you a suitable replacement on ebay.
Something like this would work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-ZEISS-910224-6V-12V-10A-Variable-Microscope-Illuminator-Lab-Power-Supply-/350740591866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a9c4b4fa
But if I know the specifics I can find something cheaper.
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17975956 - 03/18/13 07:17 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you Alan,
I checked the bulb and the filament looks good so that's some positive news.
And with regards to the second power cable I noticed, I found out that it is for an illuminated arrow I can move around with a lever as it's a teaching scope (hence dual head). So that's cool 
I found a page I can't re-find now which described my power supply as a 115V to 6.5V, 2.75A transformer with a variable rheostat. The output range as shown on the dial is in the following increments: 7.5, 6.5, 5.5, 5 and 4.5; so I guess it must technically be a 7.5V transformer, because as far as I understand you can't step up voltage with a resistor (rheostat). The bulb is a 6.5V, 2.75A, 17.88W incandescent one as seen here.
The only important information I can't find is whether the output is AC or DC. Do you know which it would be Alan? As far as I know incandescent bulbs can accept both AC and DC but it can affect brightness and longevity. I posted my problem with the power supply on an elecricals forum to get some specific advice on what might have broken and what I can do next and am awaiting a reply
At the moment my options as I see them are as follows:
- Get an exact replacement here, around $75 delivered + potential import tax.
- Get a generic replacement like you suggested, but since I'm in the UK options are limit and a quick ebay seatch suggests it'll cost about the same.
- Get something that will do the Job, such as a dimmer switch for a light, this is tempting, but first I need to understand the full specifications I need, primarily AC/DC. Probably quite cheap.
- Replace whatever the broken component is inside the box and get a step-down transformer. This is my ideal solution, but since my multimeter is also broken I'm limited in what I can test.
- Just order a step-down transformer to take my 230V down to 115 and hope that nothing's broken. Doesn't seem very likely given the smell and I have to wait for it to arrive in the post
- Try out a little device I have which just might work. It's an AC to DC adapter/transformer plug which has a few voltage options within my range. It gives of DC and I suspect the old one was AC, but according to my understanding it shouldn't cause any damage. I've already stripped the end of the wires for a previous application and could just wrap them around the pins. Something like this.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17976698 - 03/18/13 09:34 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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The bulb can run on DC or AC.
I suspect that your little device won't supply enough currant - Needs to have at least 3 amps / 20 watts available.
I see a lot of stuff on ebay that costs about $5 and supports up to 15 watts - not quite enough. You could run two in parallel. They convert higher DC voltages to lower ones, so you would power it with an old laptop adaptor or something.
An old 6 volt 20 watt power supply might work just fine, if you have something like that laying around.
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17978137 - 03/19/13 06:19 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
You could run two in parallel
Hmmm, I've got something which could work... it's a dual model train controller:
- DC output
- Variable up to 12V each side (I will just limit how far I can turn the dials to only reach 7.5V
 )
- 12VA power each side(VA = Watts seeing as it's DC, right?) = 24W maximum...
- 3 amp fuse
Do you reckon I could just connect both sides of that in parallel?
I have until my slides and immersion oil arrive to work this out!
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17978218 - 03/19/13 07:13 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Actually [I guess] the 12 VA will only be at the maximum voltage of 12V. I'll only be running them at 7.5V so I won't get enough power. 12/12=1 so I think that means that each side of the power supply can only provide 1 amp. Total 2 amps is < 2.75 that I need so no dice 
This electricity stuff is so confusing! I'll see what else I've got laying around...
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17978366 - 03/19/13 08:23 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
User_7 said:
Hmmm, I've got something which could work... it's a dual model train controller:
Try it.
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17978416 - 03/19/13 08:41 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Touché... It'll have to wait until tonight though.
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Joust
Mycotographer
Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 13,392
Loc: WA
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17978494 - 03/19/13 09:06 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Good luck man, i wish i caught this thread earlier, ive taken a few classes on circuits.
looks lke your on the right track
--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________  "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen
"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira
    
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Joust]
#17980959 - 03/19/13 06:49 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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So I gave it whirl, the power supply didn't trip or do anything wrong but the bulb didn't light up either. I then tried to exclude the microscope's wiring (I was warned that the light could be intermittent when the cable was moved so wanted to exclude it as a cause of failure) and touch the contacts directly to the power supply wires, still nothing.
Then just after I was examining the bulb and the filament fell off it's contacts inside the wires. Before it looked fine... So now I don't know what to think... I don't know if my double power supply is working because I don't know if the bulb was broken before I tested it or not - perhaps the filament had been loose this whole time and finally dropped off the last bit after and otherwise it would have worked. Or maybe I knocked it off after testing and it just didn't light up before because of a problem with the power supply. Maybe the power supply and bulb were both shit from the start
Sigh... And then when I thought I'd just shine my LED torch through where the bulb should be it went missing. God doesn't want his secrets revealed through my inevitably awesome microscopy skills
So now I could do with a ~2.75A 0-12V DC appliance to test my dual power supply on, any ideas? Luckily I ordered a new multimeter this morning before all this happens so when that arrives I can do some serious testing!
But now I need a new bulb and I don't know if it's worth just giving up on that lamp set-up and just replacing it with a cheaper one for now. If the bulb wasn't such an obscure fitting I could probably have chosen one with more suitable voltage/current specifications...
Buggery!
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17981340 - 03/19/13 08:27 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Right, I think I know what has to be done. LED conversion. This will be cheap easy and the end result is that my out-dated incandescent set up will be upgraded to LED, so all this won't have been for nothing. If I can actually make something positive come from this it will sit a lot better in my mind and save my forehead from the constant face-palms it's enduring.
I love the big dial I have on my original power supply but I think I will just have to sacrifice it... Or maybe I could get a dimmable LED and set it up to work in that!? I won't get carried away just yet, I'll focus on getting this working with a basic LED.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17981350 - 03/19/13 08:30 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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I tried a LED conversion once and wasn't happy with the results. You might need some additional optics to make that work well. If you try it you'll definitely want to use the brightest LED you can find, at least a 3 watt one, maybe brighter.
I'd stay with incandescent for now and keep the LED conversion as a side project. You can switch out the socket with a more common one. I wouldn't recommend a 220 volt bulb for safety reasons, but a 12 volt one might be a good choice.
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17981675 - 03/19/13 09:27 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Why were you disappointed? Everything I read about them is positive.
What additional optics? The guide I linked recommends a lens to focus the LED's light, but that's cheap and ebay-able.
Even if LED is inferior I might just do it anyway because it's quick cheap & easy. Then if I'm disappointed consider something else. I think changing the socket will be a bigger job requiring more specialist parts and I still have a transformer issue. Even if 12V is easier than my 2.75A job, for LED I can just use an old phone charger.
I'm really eager to get this scope on the road, to me it seems more sensible to do a quick LED Job now and consider incandescent as a side project.
But I'd still love to hear your reasoning, your help and experience is invaluable Alan 
Quote:
User_7 said:
maybe I could get a dimmable LED
Just realised all LEDs are dimmable, they just require changing current rather than voltage I could easily hook it all up in my old PS box 
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 9 hours, 1 minute
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: User_7]
#17982641 - 03/20/13 01:49 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
User_7 said:
Why were you disappointed? Everything I read about them is positive.
I used a bright LED light but the light coming through was really dim.
I use a LED scope regularly that is great, though it was designed for LED use so it has the lens that it needs.
Quote:
The guide I linked recommends a lens to focus the LED's light, but that's cheap and ebay-able.
Might be interesting to take apart a LED scope and see what kind of lens setup they have and see how the LED is mounted.
Quote:
for LED I can just use an old phone charger.
You'll also need a current limiting resistor. Hopefully the voltmeter that you ordered can measure milliamps.
Quote:
I'm really eager to get this scope on the road, to me it seems more sensible to do a quick LED Job now and consider incandescent as a side project.
I'd shine a LED flashlight around first and see if you can get good results before committing to a LED conversion.
Quote:
User_7 said:
Just realised all LEDs are dimmable, they just require changing current rather than voltage I could easily hook it all up in my old PS box
Right. The way I usually do it is use an adjustable power supply and change the voltage until my voltmeter is reading the current that I want.
You could set it up with a resistor that gives you the maximum current that the LED is rated for, and another variable resistor in series with that as a dimmer. The first resistor would ensure that you can't turn up the power so much that it fries the LED.
This looks like a reasonable LED to use - Ten watts for $1.88 including shipping. You'd have to wait a bit though, it comes in the mail from China.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-10Watt-10W-High-Power-Bright-LED-900LM-Bulb-10W-Cool-White-20000K-Lamp-Light-/140933983595?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item20d051ed6b
Or here is a 20 watt panel:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20W-Warm-White-High-Power-LED-Panel-1400LM-20-Watt-Lamp-Light-/380515695955?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589880bd53
Note that any high power LED's need a heat sink. You can use an old CPU heat sink or maybe just a piece of metal that is already in your scope.
These arrays that have lots of LED's aren't exactly a point source, which may or not be an issue when trying to focus it into a perfect cone of light for kohler illumination.
The brightest point source might be something like this:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8202
Also consider a nice buckpuck driver so you don't have to mess around with resistors to limit the current flow and can use an extremely variable source voltage.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Watt-LED-Pulse-Driver-for-Luxeon-White-Blue-Green-IR-/230644366954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b379be6a
If you get a buckpuck driver don't buy the model I linked, get the one that has adjustable current so you can put a brightness control on it without needing to use a variable resistor that can handle 5 watts of power. (those are rare, most variable resistors are rated at a quarter watt)
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User_7
Cyanoaeruginosa caerulazurescens
Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Secret Island Location
Last seen: 7 years, 29 days
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Re: What do you think of this Microscope + buying tips please! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17986578 - 03/20/13 08:18 PM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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I think my powerful LED torch is at my Girlfriend's house so I can't really try out LED. I just want to get it working now.
So last night I decided I wanted all the parts to be here as soon as possible and made myself stay up and work it out so the order was in before the morning. Shortly before your last post I ordered a 3W, 150 lm LED similar to the one in this guide for converting microscopes to LED. I decided it should be bright enough seeing as the guide said it was plenty and another guide said that 1W was ample (with a lens). I also read that a 3W LED is roughly equivalent to a 20W incandescent bulb.
In the morning, after reading your post I worried a little bit that it wouldn't be bright enough and ordered a 15 degree lens to maximise my light. I should think the 3W + lens will be adequate. I thought I'd run it with one side of my train controller for now, until I develop a permanent solution. Stupidly though I didn't order any resistors... I was too tired to work it out and thought that I would be bound to have a suitable resistor in an old piece of electricals somewhere which will work for now and I'll save ordering resistors until I have my final power supply, now I'm not so sure where I'll find one.
But apparently if you run an LED with the correct voltage it's rated at (or very close) you don't need a resistor and LED's don't suffer any damage from too low voltage. So my temporary solution is to hook it up to my train controller (variable voltage power supply), start at a voltage below 3V and then slowly turn it up until the LED illuminates at about 3.6V. Once there I can leave it and make sure I don't knock the dial any higher. This should be satisfactory until I have my final fixed voltage power supply and a set of resistors. I have an aperture and condenser on the scope so I should be able to adjust the brightness a fair amount.
So I think when I make it permanent I want to recycle my old power supply enclosure and switch to keep the feel of my vintage set up. It seems a shame to discard it when it's a nicely designed part which matches my scope and would have been sold with it originally. The dial on the front appears just to be a rotary switch which brightened the old bulb in set increments. So I thought a cheap and easy way to provide the same service and use the original dial would be to have a resistor connected in series at each point. Each turn of the dial towards maximum will exclude a resistor and therefore increase current and brightness. I made a little circuit diagram to explain:
I haven't drawn a circuit diagram since school, but I think it's strait forward and should work. Other option is a variable resistor like you said. I could probably mount that in the box too and put the same lever on the end. I see what you mean about the higher wattage type being rarer. I would need a wire-wound one - they're more expensive but still not too much on ebay. This would give me a continuous scale of brightness, we'll see.
In other new the multi-meter already arrived. Yes it measures milliamps, I'll have to start some serious testing soon. I'm not very happy with it's resistance measuring at the moment though - it doesn't seem to like to settle, erratically jumping numbers over a wide range. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. It's frustrating when I could do with an improvised resistor soon. Stage micrometer's here too. No sign of reagents, oil immersion, reticle or slides...
Gasp, I do go on
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