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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,061
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #17997995 - 03/23/13 04:45 AM (11 years, 8 days ago)

forget dormant
dormant makes you think sleeping or low energy active

when a mental object or fragment of memory/sensation is active it is active, it resonates in a pulse train for minimum 1/15th of a second, it may be extended, or it may get retriggered by association, but when the pattern is no longer contextually involved it is silent - silent means off

not dormant.

that it can become active again means that linkages have grown to facilitate recall. it does not mean it is sleeping or dormant - that analogy (which supports subconscious) is not appropriate.

when off it is off,

that it once was on means there is potential to be on again it does not mean there is a subconscious force around it or supporting it, it is the basic nature  of associative memory which is part of consciousness....

awareness is a funny term as well, as it relates to consciousness, and as it relates to interest (conditioning) and to directedness (motivation) or the center of attention (thisness) and the glance.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineChakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 2,514
Loc: The Enterprise
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #17999493 - 03/23/13 01:55 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

I see that a lot of what you just said seems legitimate.

Off is off, not dormant, only triggered as long as we use our minds in such a way as to trigger a link.

I don't think that we have the mind entirely worked out, but this seems like an accurate model of thought.

But still I speculate based on discoveries of Yogis who can somehow control Pranic energy or Life Force, yet other people live their entirely lives without noticing these things.

How is it that a mind is unaware of something that is occurring all around and within it(Life Force)? There may be more layers of awareness that are untapped, but still effecting us.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,061
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #17999811 - 03/23/13 03:34 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

how?
the simple answer is that while you are engaged with something mentally, there is little room for other things to ramify.

ok the senses are coming into the cerebrum & some memories are elicited, by object presence, or similarity, or sound sequence, or words...

this is perception, then some additional mind activity ramifies based upon the perception, and at that point the cerebrum is pretty much busy...

if some subtle signals occur while busy you will probably not add any resonance to them, they will be damped (disregarded/ passed over).

if instead you are not busy, or if you make a point of not dwelling on side trips, then you will recover a fair bit of space for other signals to become perceptions and ramify in the cortex.

Meditators might keep returning to the point of focus or mantra, which is pretty minimal, and by not adding to sensation (yoked to the breath usually) a good sense of what is happening in the body and surrounds will take place.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineChakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 2,514
Loc: The Enterprise
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18001074 - 03/23/13 09:03 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Thanks for the explanation, this makes perfect sense. I still feel open to the idea of some sort of vast storage of information within our minds that could effect our current state of being, but "subconscious" may not be the right word, maybe more like the shared resonance of humanity. Which could explain why a trance like state often produces totally unexpected and spontaneous imagery.

However, one more idea... our current links of association lead us into different states of being. These different states of being tap into collective consciousness, or the shared resonance of humanity. I
t's been crucial for me to keep my thoughts true and positive because they will either bring me up, or down, within the context of collective consciousness. I mean, it's possible that the shared resonance of thought is something closer to the astral plane, and actually goes far beyond the confines of humanity and into a universal consciousness. 

A clear mind... three words that sum up the conditions for direct perception.

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: Chakra Shock] * 1
    #18001141 - 03/23/13 09:15 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Think positively, your state of being affects everyone around you
You cannot change the world with money, status or politics, but you can change it by changing yourself.
(both are own experiences after messages I got while in trance, in those exact sentences)

If you think positively you attract different kinds of people than if you think negatively
(everybody you meet will think like yourself)

You also influence other people differently, you can change everyone around you

No thought/positive thought/view is nice, the world changes around you
Let go of anger,frustration,doubt,fears
and ego things like (money,status,intelligence,being better than others)

See that everybody is like yourself

Be the change you want to see in the world

The only thing I know is that everything will be alright, I never doubt or worry about tomorrow :smile:

Edited by lessismore (03/23/13 09:24 PM)

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: lessismore]
    #18001198 - 03/23/13 09:29 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

How can one have a clear mind if one thinks about everything instead of experiencing/feeling/knowing?

I realized that the more I know the less happy and clearminded I will be

Direct experience is the only thing that works for me, not learning or being philosophical

Clearing the mind with meditation will work too, but it gets back once you start to think about everything again

Maybe I don't understand, but seems like you try to understand the mind/consciousness/(spirituality) biologically/scientifically only, instead of direct experience

I am still interested in both science and philosophy/psychology however, but it seems like you are over-complicating it

Edited by lessismore (03/23/13 09:42 PM)

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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: lessismore]
    #18001541 - 03/23/13 11:10 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

They are as "conscious" as their mental capacity allows them to be.

Edited by GilbertC06 (03/23/13 11:11 PM)

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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #18001556 - 03/23/13 11:14 PM (11 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I think that most of the babies I have seen are annoying. After all, they're mirroring their stupid parents. :shrug:




It's because you expect more from human babies and humans in general.

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OfflineChakra Shock
Waxing Prophetic


Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 2,514
Loc: The Enterprise
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: lessismore]
    #18005538 - 03/24/13 07:28 PM (11 years, 6 days ago)

I think you're totally right 'bout what a clear mind feels like.

Gotta let it all go sometimes to be clear again.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: GilbertC06]
    #18009797 - 03/25/13 05:16 PM (11 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I think that most of the babies I have seen are annoying. After all, they're mirroring their stupid parents. :shrug:




It's because you expect more from human babies and humans in general.




How would you know anything about my expectations?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #18010098 - 03/25/13 06:17 PM (11 years, 5 days ago)

I have intuited everything about you. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinewindowlikcer
Stranger
Male
Registered: 11/14/11
Posts: 527
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Are insects conscious? [Re: lessismore]
    #18011049 - 03/25/13 09:01 PM (11 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

mio said:
How can one have a clear mind if one thinks about everything instead of experiencing/feeling/knowing?

I realized that the more I know the less happy and clearminded I will be

Direct experience is the only thing that works for me, not learning or being philosophical

Clearing the mind with meditation will work too, but it gets back once you start to think about everything again

Maybe I don't understand, but seems like you try to understand the mind/consciousness/(spirituality) biologically/scientifically only, instead of direct experience

I am still interested in both science and philosophy/psychology however, but it seems like you are over-complicating it




Philosophy is a way of looking at things outside of their typical ways of being apprehended; it is still direct experience, just a way of directly experiencing things that aims to provide you with an appreciation for how these ways of looking at things originated in the first place. Its not as if when you are reading philosophy you are somehow not engaging directly with first hand experience, in fact I think philosophy is a more enriching way to come to grips with experience and being itself.

I agree with you very much though. Direct experience is key. The most incredible mystery of my existence is the fact that I am here, existing as a "being-in-the-world". When people get all wrapped up in the scientific explanations they seem to ignore the utter profundity of simply being consciousness. This is of course one area where mediation can come in handy in terms of helping us become familiar with this profound awareness. Meditation and philosophy can go hand in hand. Philosophy will help you realize that your very conception of reality is prefabricated by those who came before you, and meditation will help you start to reach outside of that frame of reference into the true nothingness that is consciousness.

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