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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973669 - 03/18/13 11:32 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

As an aspiring psychiatrist this thread makes me :sad:

Stop buying into the opinion of psychiatry in the 50's-60's and do some research on your own. We base our practice as much upon neuroscience and known molecular biochemistry as we can. In the next 20 years we'll have the brain mapped and psychiatrists will be able to help individuals with a much higher success rate. Without the brain mapped, we have to try lots of things that don't work because we can't see individual biochemical and neural developmental issues.

Who is first in line to shoot me in the head/chop me up when I finally receive my certification after over a decade of working my ass off with the goal of being able to help people? :smilingpuppy:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17973699 - 03/18/13 11:40 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As an aspiring psychiatrist this thread makes me :sad:

Stop buying into the opinion of psychiatry in the 50's-60's and do some research on your own. We base our practice as much upon neuroscience and known molecular biochemistry as we can. In the next 20 years we'll have the brain mapped and psychiatrists will be able to help individuals with a much higher success rate. Without the brain mapped, we have to try lots of things that don't work because we can't see individual biochemical and neural developmental issues.

Who is first in line to shoot me in the head when I finally receive my certification after over a decade of working my ass off?!:smilingpuppy:




We'll have a better idea in the next 20 years, and a better idea yet after that but people are still going to be minds, not motors and tinkering would not be a stochastic process like 99% it would be with motors.

I know they *try*, but calling Psychiatry a science is... eh, I won't go on as I don't want to insult who I hope and think may well be one of the good psychiatrists. When you see desperation or hope in patients' eyes, just remember that you can ruin their life as they know it with the flick of a pen.

Edit/addendum: It won't be me, but again you sound like you're already on the witchhunt for chemical imbalances which usually don't exist. The mind and human being are an ineffibly complex manifestation of emergent behavior. This is coming from someone who does carry bias, but who has corrected a psychiatrist on multiple occasions (once even being offered a research assistant possibility by my actual one over the corrections). I've also got a publication in a peer reviewed journal... I assure you I'm not just being an uneducated dick and while psychiatry and particularly big pharma are a net negative in the world, I think the subset of Psychiatrists you comprise will end up a net positive :awesomenod:


--------------------
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Edited by st1llnox (03/18/13 11:46 AM)

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973711 - 03/18/13 11:42 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Man, I'm sick of this jive talk. Psychology is definitely a science and psychiatry is even more of one. I speak as an aspiring neuroscientist. This may shock you, but zappaisgod isn't right on 100% of the subjects upon which he opines for 100% of his opinions. He just likes to say he is. Quit talking out of your goddamned ass. :oldman:


--------------------
Enlil said:
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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #17973717 - 03/18/13 11:43 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

uh oh , time to lobotomy him


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973732 - 03/18/13 11:48 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:
Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As an aspiring psychiatrist this thread makes me :sad:

Stop buying into the opinion of psychiatry in the 50's-60's and do some research on your own. We base our practice as much upon neuroscience and known molecular biochemistry as we can. In the next 20 years we'll have the brain mapped and psychiatrists will be able to help individuals with a much higher success rate. Without the brain mapped, we have to try lots of things that don't work because we can't see individual biochemical and neural developmental issues.

Who is first in line to shoot me in the head when I finally receive my certification after over a decade of working my ass off?!:smilingpuppy:




We'll have a better idea in the next 20 years, and a better idea yet after that but people are still going to be minds, not motors and tinkering would not be a stochastic process like 99% it would be with motors.

I know they *try*, but calling Psychiatry a science is... eh, I won't go on as I don't want to insult who I hope and think may well be one of the good psychiatrists. When you see desperation or hope in patients' eyes, just remember that you can ruin their life as they know it with the flick of a pen.



Psychiatry is a science. What you're saying tells me you still see psychiatry as it was when Freud was king of psychoanalysis. It's based heavily in what we know about pharmacology, neuroscience and molecular biology. You haven't done the research to know that, I have. Do some searching on your own before you talk about something though dude.

The brain is a physical thing, we can treat it like a motor. All it is really is an incredibly complex organic computer. All brain function is a result of neuronal action. Every single thing that happens in the brain is related to chemical changes, basically. When we have the brain fully mapped and decent imaging/sensing technology we'll be able to locate individual anomalies and better treat them. Now it's just a process of trial and error which works for a lot of people but people like you detract from the medical science of psychiatry so even the patients give up and think that treatment will never work.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #17973745 - 03/18/13 11:50 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Man, I'm sick of this jive talk. Psychology is definitely a science and psychiatry is even more of one. I speak as an aspiring neuroscientist. This may shock you, but zappaisgod isn't right on 100% of the subjects upon which he opines for 100% of his opinions. He just likes to say he is. Quit talking out of your goddamned ass. :oldman:




Psychology is a social science for sure. Psychiatry is a vocational training field based on several natural sciences and its vocational aspect is based on a post-baccalaureate, first professional vocational training--Medicine.

Many--but not all--of the best psychiatrists make it a point to inform patients and their families that (perhaps only to cover their own tail) psychiatry is 'still' more of an art than a science.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973768 - 03/18/13 11:58 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:


In the past, we did things 'cause "the bible says!". In the future, we do them because "Science herself says so!". It's already becoming a trump card, I think largely due to the low amount of scientific literacy. Science itself is a bastion of undulating disagreement, rebuttal, and debunking... whenever you hear anyone say "Well, science says..." they might as well be giving President Obama's office bathroom an upper-decker.



This shows me you definitely don't understand science. When people say, "science says..." that means that a study has proven something to be consistent with repeated trials. You can go to that study on your own and look at the information and judge whether or not the study was done honestly and if the results are actually relevant to the discussion. You can't do that with the bible. Nothing in the bible is reproducible, backed by experimentation or up for peer review.

People think "science is dogmatic and bad" because they don't know anything about science or take the time to educate themselves on science aside from what they hear other people say about science. When you're scientifically literate you hold the power to recognize good science and to discredit pseudoscience. If you remain in ignorance, people will try and pass pseudoscience off on you as if it's accepted by all scientists. It's your responsibility to educate yourself on this matter.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973769 - 03/18/13 11:58 AM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Being a medical doctor in general is "still" more of an art than a science and probably always will be. A doctor uses science and knows science but is not a scientist, a doctor is a healer. There's a big difference between those two roles. Scientists have a way of chopping their subjects to pieces.

Personally, I think I'm going to be a great scientist, but I know I'd make a horrible doctor. I don't have those people skills, nor do I have the patience, nor do I have the bravery or responsibility to take somebody's life in my hands to make diagnoses and write prescriptions.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #17973777 - 03/18/13 12:00 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Medicine is just applied science. Because of the complexity of the human body it can seem like an "art" to synthesize so much biological information, sift out the relevant signals, and make a proper diagnosis. It's still 100% based in science, not that it always has been because medicine was around much longer than science.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #17973784 - 03/18/13 12:02 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

You can't do that with the bible. Nothing in the bible is reproducible,



i can remember lots of burning bushes in highschool:shrug:


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever

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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: hidenseek1]
    #17973789 - 03/18/13 12:03 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

not that it always has been because medicine was around much longer than science.




which mostly was used, because of repeating trials that seemed to work, alot of before science medicines have been proven to be anti-bacterial in moderen studies


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17973801 - 03/18/13 12:06 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As an aspiring psychiatrist this thread makes me :sad:

Stop buying into the opinion of psychiatry in the 50's-60's and do some research on your own. We base our practice as much upon neuroscience and known molecular biochemistry as we can. In the next 20 years we'll have the brain mapped and psychiatrists will be able to help individuals with a much higher success rate. Without the brain mapped, we have to try lots of things that don't work because we can't see individual biochemical and neural developmental issues.




We?  You have less credentials to call yourself a shrink than I do.  And mapping the brain will do absolutely nothing to determining chemical prescriptions.
Quote:



Who is first in line to shoot me in the head/chop me up when I finally receive my certification after over a decade of working my ass off with the goal of being able to help people? :smilingpuppy:




I know you feel like you want to do good but psychiatry is by and large useless and often harmful.  The old Hippocratic oath pivoted on "first do no harm".  This is obviously not adhered to by shrinks who essentially randomly prescribe drugs until something shows some positive effect.  Forget all the earlier shit they tried that showed negative effects.

Good luck with your medical career, though.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #17973804 - 03/18/13 12:07 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

sVs said:
BlindSophist is a figment of our collective imaginations.
There is no meeting BlindSophist.



BS




Many have tried and failed. My ADHD in addition to my general social anxiety and busy academic schedule makes meeting me a tricky proposition. I recently flaked on none other than Morrowasted. I'm a horrible member of the community. :feelsbadman:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleBlend
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: st1llnox]
    #17973839 - 03/18/13 12:14 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

I wouldn't go so far as to say psychiatry isn't scientific - and definitely not as far as saying psychiatrists should be beheaded - but I think the big issue with psychiatry is that those who practice it tend to assume that there is indeed something wrong with any given patient, whether there truly is or not. However I wouldn't blame the field of psychiatry for this fact. This issue, like most, is inherent to the need to make money. Patients are customers, and it's best to keep them coming back. I'm not speaking of All psychiatrists. I'm speaking of what we should expect any business to strive for (making more money).

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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 1
    #17973896 - 03/18/13 12:24 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As an aspiring psychiatrist this thread makes me :sad:

Stop buying into the opinion of psychiatry in the 50's-60's and do some research on your own. We base our practice as much upon neuroscience and known molecular biochemistry as we can. In the next 20 years we'll have the brain mapped and psychiatrists will be able to help individuals with a much higher success rate. Without the brain mapped, we have to try lots of things that don't work because we can't see individual biochemical and neural developmental issues.

Who is first in line to shoot me in the head/chop me up when I finally receive my certification after over a decade of working my ass off with the goal of being able to help people? :smilingpuppy:



This ^^^

Thanks for saying that Joie.  I feel the same way when people bash on MD's here.  It's mostly fueled by the ignorance and mistrust of authority common in children. :sadyes:

oh yes I did....


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Offlineseadragon
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17973909 - 03/18/13 12:26 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
Quote:


In the past, we did things 'cause "the bible says!". In the future, we do them because "Science herself says so!". It's already becoming a trump card, I think largely due to the low amount of scientific literacy. Science itself is a bastion of undulating disagreement, rebuttal, and debunking... whenever you hear anyone say "Well, science says..." they might as well be giving President Obama's office bathroom an upper-decker.



This shows me you definitely don't understand science. When people say, "science says..." that means that a study has proven something to be consistent with repeated trials. You can go to that study on your own and look at the information and judge whether or not the study was done honestly and if the results are actually relevant to the discussion. You can't do that with the bible. Nothing in the bible is reproducible, backed by experimentation or up for peer review.

People think "science is dogmatic and bad" because they don't know anything about science or take the time to educate themselves on science aside from what they hear other people say about science. When you're scientifically literate you hold the power to recognize good science and to discredit pseudoscience. If you remain in ignorance, people will try and pass pseudoscience off on you as if it's accepted by all scientists. It's your responsibility to educate yourself on this matter.





actually they didn't prove hiv exists
''Unfortunately I don't think there will be a vaccine ever because the money will stop rolling in for research and for prevention. In America there is about 1 million people with HIV. At $800 a month that's $9 billion $600 million per year from just one country-------- there are only 7 billion people on earth. A vaccine will never happen. Humans already have a vaccine built in to all of us, they are called antibodies. The problem is that a HIV test is an antibody test which is scandalous''

here's your science lol
it's about the money not truth

what else is new right:ninjawe:

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: seadragon]
    #17974005 - 03/18/13 12:49 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

They just cured a few cases of HIV dude, which makes the "there wont be a cure because a cure isn't profitable" argument null. We have images of the virus. I don't know where you get this idea that HIV doesn't exist but you're one of the few dude. We have positive tests for HIV and I could go look at a collection of the virus under a microscope if I went down to the right research lab at my university right now. :lol:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Offlineseadragon
rawrasaur


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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17974030 - 03/18/13 12:54 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

ok find me a microscope picture of hiv

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OfflineThe_Aviator
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: seadragon]
    #17974032 - 03/18/13 12:54 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)

Reading this thread dropped my IQ. Is everyone converting to Scientology or something? CCHR members?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_Rights


--------------------

Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself."
Being and Nothingness
Easy no-nausea hbwr tek
Phish videos and discussion!

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OfflineThe_Aviator
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Re: The world would be better if all psychiatrists were shot in the head [Re: seadragon]
    #17974037 - 03/18/13 12:55 PM (11 years, 12 days ago)



--------------------

Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself."
Being and Nothingness
Easy no-nausea hbwr tek
Phish videos and discussion!

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