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Invisibleteancum144
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Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 8
PB cased 1 week ago and still no primordia
    #17968351 - 03/17/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I grew pink buffalo on rye grain in 10 quart jars. I put the fully colonized grain in a bus tray (14" x 17" x 7") and cased them with about 1 inch of vermiculite (with some gypsum and some calcium carbonate mixed in). I placed the tray in a clear plastic bag with some holes for air exchange. I cased them about a week ago. I've had them under fruiting conditions since casing (grow light 10 hours on 14 hours off).

After a week, still no primordia. Should I be worried at this point? Is it possible the humidity is too high? The holes in the bag are pretty small. Thoughts?


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OfflineTFpek
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Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 108
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: PB cased 1 week ago and still no primordia [Re: teancum144]
    #17969780 - 03/17/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

You wont run into too-high humidity, but you might run in to not-enough fresh air exchange. RR said in a post earlier today about constant watering systems--you don't want uniform hydration throughout the day, you want changes. You want your sub to get pretty solidly hydrated and then to dry out for just a little bit and then to get hydrated again--let your sub breathe.

Most importantly, be patient. I just got a bunch of first flush pins on a tub that's been sitting totally dormant for two months. It was pretty-well left alone, but the friends move at their own pace, and they don't really care about our schedules or what we think of as normal timing.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle Flag
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Re: PB cased 1 week ago and still no primordia [Re: TFpek]
    #17969817 - 03/17/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

The major pinning triggers are in order of importance, full colonization, a decrease in CO2 levels due to increased air exchange(not gas exchange which is minimal), a steady rate of evaporation from the substrate or casing layer, and lastly, light.

Hyphal knots form best in 100% humidity, but I didn't list that because it's not a pinning trigger, but rather an environmental condition that is necessary. That's why we use casing layers. The casing helps to provide the 100% humidity right at the surface of the substrate where the hyphal knots form.

I have seen no correlation with temperature drop whatsoever. In the summer, my growing chambers are 10 or more degrees warmer than the open shelves I incubate on due to the heating effects of the lights. Even with a temperature increase, I still get wall to wall pinsets, so I don't consider temp drop relevant at all to tropical species. Other growers disagree of course, but that's just my observation after many years.

Full colonization of the substrate is the number 1 pinning trigger. Full colonization can be when the mycelium reaches the physical border of the container they are in, or when they run up against a biological border, such as a contaminant species. Either way, they see they have colonized all of what is available to them, so they then enter the next phase, which is reproduction.

There must be evaporation of moisture from the substrate for pins to form. A waterlogged substrate will just sit there forever without pinning. Even in 99% humidity, as long as you provide fresh air, moisture will be evaporating away from the substrate, and this is necessary for pinning. We mist to replenish the lost moisture, then allow it to dry slightly before misting again. This keeps the moisture content high, and keeps the humidity at the casing surface near 100%, but at the same time provides the evaporation of moisture that is a very important pinning trigger.

During colonization, we provide very small holes in the jars or tubs for gas exchange. We want a high CO2 environment during colonization, because this prevents the mycelium from consuming all of the substrate. The mycelium colonizes the substrate, but doesn't 'eat it all up' due to the high CO2 levels. During fruiting, we remove the covers to provide air exchange, which is at a much higher level then the minimal gas exchange provided during colonization. This increase in air exchange lowers the CO2 levels, and is a major pinning trigger. At this time, the mycelium begins to consume the substrate it has previously colonized, and we notice during fruiting that our substrates pull away from the sides of the container. This is not due to moisture loss, but rather due to the mycelium 'eating' the substrate and turning it into CO2, a waste product. It is easily proved that this shrinking isn't related to moisture loss, because even when we dunk a bulk substrate, it doesn't return to its pre-flush size.

Last, but not by any means least is exposure to light. Light does much more than just tell the mushrooms which way to grow. There are mechanisms in the light that stimulate the formation of hyphal knots as well, and light at the higher end of the spectrum(blue) definitely, absolutely stimulate more hyphal knots(which grow into primordia, which then morph into pins) than light at the lower end of the spectrum(red) This does not mean to get a 'mood light' with a blue lens, but rather to select lights such as metal halide, or much more economical is 'natural daylight' fluorescent that emit light at around 6,000 kelvin to 7,500 kelvin depending on the brand. Cool white fluorescent emit light at around 5,000 kelvin and the 'red' incandescents emit light at around 3,000 kelvin. The higher the light temperature in kelvin, the more stimulatory it is to hyphal knot formation. I hope this helps.
RR


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinethundahoof
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Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 951
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: PB cased 1 week ago and still no primordia [Re: cronicr]
    #17969875 - 03/17/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Gah through the whole reading I was like 'cronicr is doing his homework' Then at the end the little 'RR':itwasgoodforme:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 days
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Re: PB cased 1 week ago and still no primordia [Re: thundahoof]
    #17969889 - 03/17/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

lol! it's always a good read though


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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