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OfflineTmethylM
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Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars * 3
    #17951157 - 03/13/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Wanted to make a quick report on this while I have it in my mind. This is not a tek.
I've seen it debated, and I've seen experienced opinions shared on the subject, but what I had never seen was any actual experimentation.
It has been argued as a lost cause, and to toss it. The idea of pressure cooking the contams and inoculating the jars again was also used multiple times.
Here is some actual experimentation.


This is a pic of 7 heavily contaminated spawn jars, they were contaminated with everything from bacteria, to Dactylium, to multiple Aspergillus sp.
They were the result of using wild-found spores from multiple species, and some contaminated P.cubensis.


Pressure cooked them for 60 minutes @ 15 PSI, here is a pic of the same jars(and one extra), 8 days after clean MS inoculation:


Some minor details, I did this with 11 jars total over the course of 3 weeks, and all of the jars that were PC'ed and re-inoculated have a 100% success rate thus far. I did shake the moldy jars like crazy before PC'ing them. Keep in mind you want to PC the contams at first sight instead of allowing them to get out of hand, because they can cause dramatic changes in the pH, thus causing issues with the second inoculation/colonization. The jars which would have been thrown away are performing with no problems, although they would have likely performed better before the second PC'ing, it's hard to complain seeing the results in person.


A quick rundown of the entire process:


Prepared spawn jars.
Pressure cooked spawn jars for 100mins @ 15psi.
Inoculated spawn jars.
7 jars contaminated days later.
Pressure cooked contaminated spawn jars for 60mins @ 15PSI.
Inoculated previously-contaminated-double-pressure-cooked spawn jars.
Healthy mycelium, no contamination, grains not too dry, good colonization speeds maintained.

Closing statement; do not open contaminated jars before pressure cooking. The double PC'ed jars will likely not perform as well as the single PC'ed uncontaminated jars. Do not attempt to inject water into grain jars before second pressure cooking. All molds will be killed completely with 60mins of 15PSI.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (03/13/13 10:09 PM)


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OfflineMooby
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17951289 - 03/13/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This is just awesome!  It makes total sense that this would work.  I love  reading about your experiments; they've saved from some stupid mistakes, like throwing away materials.  I'm totally just re-PCing my only bad jar ever with the next round of new ones.  This could not be more timely for me. :thanx:


--------------------
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Offlinefungal_alchemist
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Mooby]
    #17951434 - 03/13/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

As always a great contribution to the community thanx for documenting another great experiment


--------------------
Grocery Store Agar Tek
damion5050's coir Tek
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"I see the mycelium as the Earth's natural Internet, a consciousness with which we might be able to communicate... Because these externalized neurological nets sense any impression upon them, from footsteps to falling tree branches, they could relay enormous amounts of data regarding the movements of all organisms through the landscape."
Paul Stamets


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Mooby]
    #17951452 - 03/13/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I have already re-PC'd contaminated jars and re-inoculated.  I do not post results here because there are flocks of nay-sayers that seem to be drawn to pointing out your future failures, with no proof or supporting evidence.  I currently have 2 jars that had mold that are doing splendid after an hour and a half at 250 degree steam.  I have one more from a past batch of experiments that picked up the trich, and when I free up some more lids, it will be getting the same treatment. 

I am glad one of the more trusted members has forged forward with these results.  I really think that If I had even posted what I had done over the last few weeks with the exact same situation, I would have been flamed for "obvious illiteracy" when it comes to "Its contaminated THROW IT OUT".


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Offlinenewera
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #17951466 - 03/13/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

how many times can i put grains in the pc? i had to do 3 runs do to excess is that over kill?


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OfflineGroc60
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17951494 - 03/13/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Nice!
learn something new everyday!
was that 'plus one jar' contaminated? If it wasn't you should post a comparison view.


--------------------
"And they say that I look higher in person"

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Mooby]
    #17951505 - 03/13/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Great start to an excellent collection of data. Defiantly worth noting.

As I know you are wise, I'm sure you are fully prepared for the onslaught nay-sayers as well as the bandwagoneers.

May I suggest that you mention that this is not intended to be a tek for everyone to jump on? You know how people are.

I am curious to see how the run plays out, i.e. yields, size, contamination later.

We can always count on you to not take peoples word and conduct your own experiments. You are not just a cultivator, but a mycologist.


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Offlinenewera
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #17951537 - 03/13/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

how do you spot a fresh contam? or do the old ones vanish?


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OfflineGroc60
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: newera]
    #17951552 - 03/13/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

newera said:
how do you spot a fresh contam? or do the old ones vanish?




If something looks wrong or smells wrong. Usually contams don't magically vanish.
EDIT: Typo


--------------------
"And they say that I look higher in person"

My Easy Coffee Can FC


Edited by Groc60 (03/13/13 09:24 PM)


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Groc60]
    #17951630 - 03/13/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I think what he's asking is "if you do get contaminated after the second PC and inoc, how do you know if its a brand new contam from the inoc or if it's a contam from earlier."


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A little civility goes a long way

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Offlinecherry_darling
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Groc60]
    #17951651 - 03/13/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry if these are tard questions, but here goes:

1. After PC'ing, the mold mycelium is dead, but still there right?  So the shroom myc will "eat" the old dead mold mycelium?  If so, that's pretty cool..

2.  You didn't (obviously, going by the pics!) experience moisture loss after PC'ing the grain twice? I'd have figured it would dry it out a little too much.....I wonder how many PC cycles a jar of grain could take before getting too dry, or would that not even happen?

I love seeing your experiments, you are indeed a man of action! :lol:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: cherry_darling]
    #17951743 - 03/13/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fungal_alchemist said:
As always a great contribution to the community thanx for documenting another great experiment



Thank you, although this one was poorly documented I think.

Quote:

Whippy said:
I have already re-PC'd contaminated jars and re-inoculated.  I do not post results here because there are flocks of nay-sayers that seem to be drawn to pointing out your future failures, with no proof or supporting evidence.  I currently have 2 jars that had mold that are doing splendid after an hour and a half at 250 degree steam.  I have one more from a past batch of experiments that picked up the trich, and when I free up some more lids, it will be getting the same treatment. 

I am glad one of the more trusted members has forged forward with these results.  I really think that If I had even posted what I had done over the last few weeks with the exact same situation, I would have been flamed for "obvious illiteracy" when it comes to "Its contaminated THROW IT OUT".



This is a common theme at the Shroomery. A lot of good cultivators moved to other websites due to this.
Next time though, just post anyways. Not everyone is on such a knowledge plateau. You're ideas and experiments will receive good and bad feedback no matter what they are, this is a good thing. Thank you for your honesty here, it is certainly a logical solution to save on time and wasted materials.

Quote:

Groc60 said:
Nice!
learn something new everyday!
was that 'plus one jar' contaminated? If it wasn't you should post a comparison view.



The 8th jar was done before the 7 in the first pic, my PC only holds 7 quarts at a time. The 8th jar is not P.cubensis, it's Gymnopilus. The macroscopic colonization patterns look vastly different, which is why I didn't include it in the shot.




Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Great start to an excellent collection of data. Defiantly worth noting.
As I know you are wise, I'm sure you are fully prepared for the onslaught nay-sayers as well as the bandwagoneers.
I am curious to see how the run plays out, i.e. yields, size, contamination later.



I will continue to experiment with this and post the results of these jars as the develop fruiting cultures. Being that they are MS, won't help determine much in the way of yields when comparing previously contaminated jars to clean-first-time jars, but it's worth documenting. Also, yes, I am prepared for a shit storm, but I have a feeling it will be anticlimactic and uneventful due to a lack of evidence proving this does not work. I look forward to it, however.
:justcantwait:



Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
May I suggest that you mention that this is not intended to be a tek for everyone to jump on? You know how people are.
We can always count on you to not take peoples word and conduct your own experiments. You are not just a cultivator, but a mycologist.



I didn't label it as a tek, for this reason. I used 'report'. Thank you for mentioning this. This report is one of many to come, from me and hopefuly from others.
Thank you for your kind words as well, it is sincerely heartfelt.
Quote:

cherry_darling said:
Sorry if these are tard questions, but here goes:

1. After PC'ing, the mold mycelium is dead, but still there right?  So the shroom myc will "eat" the old dead mold mycelium?  If so, that's pretty cool..

2.  You didn't (obviously, going by the pics!) experience moisture loss after PC'ing the grain twice? I'd have figured it would dry it out a little too much.....I wonder how many PC cycles a jar of grain could take before getting too dry, or would that not even happen?

I love seeing your experiments, you are indeed a man of action! :lol:



1) Live mycelium will consume dead mycelium, as well as the nutrients the dead mycelium freed from the substrate whilst it was still living.
Dead mycelium simply becomes part of the substrate, and is treated as so. But keep in mind, dead mycelium is different than spent substrate mycelium.

2)There was some moisture loss, it was marginal though. I wouldn't PC more than twice, but I'm sure 3x would still work.
Just keep in mind you want to PC the contams at first sight instead of allowing them to get out of hand, because they can cause dramatic changes in the pH, thus causing issues with the second inoculation/colonization.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Invisibleop2kal
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17951944 - 03/13/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Cool man just figured i'd chime in a little so i could follow along as to the progress of this experiment.

Your a good guy timethyl:thumbup:


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InvisibleBrain Fart
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: op2kal]
    #17952140 - 03/13/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
I have already re-PC'd contaminated jars and re-inoculated.  I do not post results here because there are flocks of nay-sayers that seem to be drawn to pointing out your future failures, with no proof or supporting evidence.  I currently have 2 jars that had mold that are doing splendid after an hour and a half at 250 degree steam.  I have one more from a past batch of experiments that picked up the trich, and when I free up some more lids, it will be getting the same treatment. 

I am glad one of the more trusted members has forged forward with these results.  I really think that If I had even posted what I had done over the last few weeks with the exact same situation, I would have been flamed for "obvious illiteracy" when it comes to "Its contaminated THROW IT OUT".




Quote:

Timethyl said:

This is a common theme at the Shroomery. A lot of good cultivators moved to other websites due to this.
Next time though, just post anyways. Not everyone is on such a knowledge plateau. You're ideas and experiments will receive good and bad feedback no matter what they are, this is a good thing. Thank you for your honesty here, it is certainly a logical solution to save on time and wasted materials.





I'm sorry but no website is cooler then the shroomery. even if people can be butt plugs sometimes here. myself included:aweyeah:


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OfflineBadaboom
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Brain Fart]
    #17952248 - 03/13/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

How are you not a TC...?


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Invisiblethelanzii

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Posts: 5,434
Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Badaboom]
    #17952529 - 03/14/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Gonna give it a shot, nothing to lose.  Would reinoculating jars that failed to colonize fall under this same concept?


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: thelanzii]
    #17953309 - 03/14/13 04:47 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Yes Nemmies but a jar failing to colonize is likely a GE issue. Could be bacteria too though.


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflinePirax
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17953453 - 03/14/13 05:38 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This is bad mother-fucking ass. Does that mean I can Re-PC my contaminated agar halfpint dishes and reuse them :ooo: ? the asian foor store is quite a trip away

Also do you think this method would work for pf cakes as well?


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Pirax]
    #17953532 - 03/14/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

With agar i highly doubt it, with cakes its possible. Basically both methods will require testing before anyone can say with any certainty.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Quick report on reusing contaminated spawn jars [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17954068 - 03/14/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Great experiment, I have been tempted to try this, but have always been too pussy to go for it. Though it seemed reasonable enough in theory.

:popcorn:


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