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God Stamet
wannabe Stamets


Registered: 07/01/12
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microscope question
#17953998 - 03/14/13 08:49 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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i'm trying to decide what type of miroscope to buy. it's my first time owning one so i'm a little confused.
HERE is the microscope i'm interested in. it's so expensive i was hoping someone with knowledge on this subject could help me to understand the basics before i drop this kind of money on something i'm very new at. would this scope be overkill for mycology or a great investment while learning?
-------------------- I have caught the Mycology bug! Not just here for the ride, i'm here for life. How I do my bulk substrate just another mushroom capsule TEK
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cli_hlt
Beshroomed



Registered: 10/29/11
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Re: microscope question [Re: God Stamet]
#17954785 - 03/14/13 12:15 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've dealt a lot with microscopes, I owned an old Zeiss scope and now I have a cheapo-but-ok chinese noname scope. I got it for like $120 five years ago. I pimped it up with a $30 used oil immersion lens and it works very fine. I-can-see-bacteria fine. It doesn't even have proper illumination, just a flat and a parabolic (?) mirror.
I suggest you buying a cheap one and figure out if you need such stuff before investing into such a great instrument that might prove to be an overkill.
Anyway, what you're going to use it for? How small objects you want to see?
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God Stamet
wannabe Stamets


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Re: microscope question [Re: cli_hlt]
#17954933 - 03/14/13 12:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyway, what you're going to use it for? How small objects you want to see?
all things mycology. i'd also like to be able to take pictures with it just because i'm into it. spores, spores germinating creating hyphae forming into mycelium threads. petri dishes with mycelium battling different bacteria. if i had a nickel every time i wanted a good scope to look at stuff i'd have three of these things already.
-------------------- I have caught the Mycology bug! Not just here for the ride, i'm here for life. How I do my bulk substrate just another mushroom capsule TEK
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cli_hlt
Beshroomed



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Re: microscope question [Re: God Stamet]
#17955615 - 03/14/13 03:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well.
If you want to see a spore - say 5um "big" - as a 5mm object would look like at "reading distance" - about 25 cm - than you'd have to use a lens combination that is capable of 1000x magnification.
This can be done with a 100x oil immersion objective and a 10x eyepiece. A cheaper, non oil immersion 40x objective and a 16x eyepiece would do 640x magnification, slightly more than the half of that (but probably by being less then half as detailed).
I don't have my scope with me to check but even with the "dry" setup you would be able to see the spores and mycelium well.
Check if the microscope has and oil immersion objective. If not, you still can get one later, scopes have standard sizes, pretty easy to find optics for them. To use an oil immersion objective, you need immersion oil too.
Also buy glass slides and cover slips. 
For good photos, you need plan or semi-plan objectives.
Unfortunately I don't see detailed info about your scope. You need this kind of information to be able to make a good compromise between price and functionality.
Try to choose a scope that can be improved by replacing the condenser lens. The best pictures made with dark-field or phase contrast illumination (second also requires special objectives and is very expensive). These are not absolutely necessary and also can expensive.
A scope with a built-in camera is not always the best choice. With cheap models, it's pretty bad. You can assemble your own photo mic from a trinocular mic, and adapter ring and an SLR camera (that can handle objectives with no electronics). This option is good if you already own an appropriate camera.
I suggest you buying a scope that is extensible, but still affordable. Unfortunately I don't have info on specific manufacturers and models, but I hope I helped somewhat.
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God Stamet
wannabe Stamets


Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 774
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: microscope question [Re: cli_hlt]
#17956986 - 03/14/13 07:50 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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since you just blew my mind, here is the catalog info on the scope. thanks for taking the time to look.
-------------------- I have caught the Mycology bug! Not just here for the ride, i'm here for life. How I do my bulk substrate just another mushroom capsule TEK
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cli_hlt
Beshroomed



Registered: 10/29/11
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Re: microscope question [Re: God Stamet]
#17958904 - 03/15/13 03:36 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh well there's much more info in that paper!
The objectives are fine. You'll get an oil immersion objective (wich is pretty much expected for such money).
Wide field eyepieces are great.
Abbe condenser is a must for taking good photos and you'll get one with the scope. Built-in illumination seems fine.
What is really great is that there's a filter holder in the condenser. With a little bit hacking you can make a filter that creates dark field or similar illumination.
For start, visit http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/. See "microscopy primer", and "buying a microscope". Turn Java off, or you'll suffer! 
There are a few tricks that you really want to learn before using a microscope. Working with the oil immersion objective requires steady hands and patience 
Read the above website's articles for beginners.
Edited by cli_hlt (03/15/13 04:00 AM)
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God Stamet
wannabe Stamets


Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 774
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: microscope question [Re: cli_hlt]
#17959266 - 03/15/13 07:13 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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thanks a lot. i'll get on that article. and thanks for the java tip! i definitely run java so that's good to know.i'm gonna study up.
-------------------- I have caught the Mycology bug! Not just here for the ride, i'm here for life. How I do my bulk substrate just another mushroom capsule TEK
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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I don't think that scope is a very good deal. I would be wanting phase contrast for that price range.
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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BloodKil
Mangler av era mödrar slida


Registered: 03/16/13
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Re: microscope question [Re: fastfred]
#18170445 - 04/26/13 05:13 AM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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Hate to thread jack, but what do you guys think about something like this...
Omax 2000x
Kinda new to this, and though I dont want to blow anywhere near what the op is looking at spending, I also want a decent scope. Nothing crazy, just basic stuff like spores, check to see if there is contaminants in water, etc...
Would this be considered mid or low range as far as specs?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: microscope question [Re: BloodKil]
#18172271 - 04/26/13 02:46 PM (11 years, 25 days ago) |
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That looks like a good scope at a great price.
It has all the features you should look for... mechanical stage, binocular optics, abbe condenser, coarse and fine focus adjustment.
Remember you can't really get over 1000x with a light microscope though. Changing eyepieces is a good way to get dust in your optics, so I suggest you stick with the 10x.
If you wear glasses you should consider "long working distance" eyepieces. Some people take their glasses off and use the diopter adjustments, some like to keep their glasses on or have such bad vision that they need the correction.
Other than those two points, I think you have a winner here. Let us know how it performs.
RR usually suggests a stereo zoom microscope. Those are good for most mycology work, and are easier to use for general examination. In the best world you would have both. But if you want to see bacteria, clamp connections, etc. you'll need 1,000x power.
My scope stage is just barely large enough to clamp in a petri dish. If yours is a little too small you can usually modify them a bit to take a dish.
If you like looking at your dishes without taking off the cover you can pour your agar almost right up to the top. That way the distance is close enough that you can get decent power when looking at your dishes.
You can also try some longer working distance objectives. I haven't personally tried this, but it makes sense.
Another thing to think about is a webcam type attachment. I made my own from a guide, but the performance is pretty dependent on your construction and the quality of your webcam. With a camera you can do cool time-lapse videos, snap pictures, and use software to take measurements and calculate areas, etc..
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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