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Offlinenimbus8
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Hot water extraction of polysaccharides
    #17943845 - 03/12/13 01:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

So im doing a hot water and alcohol double extraction on chaga mushrooms. My question is that if i do a hot water extraction do i have to boil all of the water off? Because if i didn't boil it off there would be a very low concentration of active compounds especially if i divided the water over several tinctures. Another possibility is that if polysaccharides are alcohol soluble(which im not sure if they are) then i could mix the water/polysaccharides mixture with alcohol then separate the alchohol from the water in a seperatory funnel.

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Offlinethiotimoline
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Re: Hot water extraction of polysaccharides [Re: nimbus8]
    #17944040 - 03/12/13 02:00 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Water and alcohol (by which I assume you mean ethanol, methanol, or isopropanol) are fully miscible and cannot be separated with a separatory funnel.

With any extraction, obviously if the concentration is too low for your taste you will need to remove some solvent. You can boil it off, or you can evaporate it more slowly in a tray if prolonged heating is likely to denature whatever you're after.

The following is based on a quick Wikipedia skim, so take it with a grain of salt, but it makes sense to me and I have a decent chemistry background:

The purpose of a double extraction is to get out two separate fractions from the chaga. First you extract with hot water to get out the water-soluble polysaccharides and such, and also to break down the cell walls with heat. Second you extract with an alcohol to get out compounds like betulinic acid that are not soluble in water. The two extracts will have different compounds and have different medicinal use (if any---I haven't done the research on the effectiveness of chaga so I'm not making any claims about it).

Combining the water and alcohol fractions will not result in a water layer with no chaga compounds and an alcohol layer with all the chaga compounds. It will result in a water-alcohol mixture with most of the chaga compounds and a sediment of suspension of water-insoluble compounds at the bottom. (Consider what happens when you add water to ouzo, which is an alcohol solution of water-insoluble oils. You mix two clear liquids and you get a cloudy suspension.)

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Offlinenimbus8
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Re: Hot water extraction of polysaccharides [Re: thiotimoline]
    #17944464 - 03/12/13 03:29 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Alright thank you very much for this response, in terms of getting rid of the water solvent are you suggesting rapid boiling as opposed to slower heating?

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InvisibleGroboClone
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Re: Hot water extraction of polysaccharides [Re: nimbus8]
    #17944610 - 03/12/13 03:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I have some experience doing two part extractions on Reishi.

I do my extractions as thiotimoline states, water first followed by alcohol.
The limiting factor will be the density of the starting product. You have to use
a certain amount of water to cover the mushroom powder and allow it to boil properly.
If you're looking to make highly concentrated extracts boiling off the excess water is necessary.
The polysaccharides are very stable and can handle boiling water.

Polysaccharides are not alcohol soluble and you will get settling when you mix the two parts.
I usually standardize my extracts to 1 or 2 g/ml and 40% alcohol.


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Offlinepleurotha
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Hot water extraction of polysaccharides [Re: GroboClone]
    #17994558 - 03/22/13 11:37 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

if you are just interested in polysaccharides the best way to go
is to mix your water extract with 4 times the amount of ethanol,
cool down to 4°C and wait for the polysaccharides to fall out,
after a few days just decant of the water-ethanol mix and there you are.
what's sitting on the ground of your jar is it.
resolve it in a minimal amount of hot water,
mix this solution with 4 times amount of ethanol,
cool it down,
wait,
decant and there you have it. 

but in chaga there are way more ingredients than just polysaccharides.
there are different bioactive acids, triterpenes, sterol compounds, etc.

so your combined extraction seems to be a better way.
just boil the water down until you have a handable amount.

pleuro

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