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OfflineBadaboom
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Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium?
    #17934568 - 03/10/13 04:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I was thinking about ways to extend the lifespan of mycelium and its growth. Would mycelium be able to re colonize spent mycelium? I can't find anything in the search function, maybe the right words just arent coming to mind.

My more in depth inquiry is this: After the mycelium has produced fruits to the end of its life, would it then be able to be set in a new BRF substrate to act as a g2g transfer?

I do not think it would survive the PC but I also know mycelium makes a great fertilizer and fertilizer is used in bulk grows.

Would spent mycelium to fresh substrate be beneficial?

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Offlinetropicalfrenzy
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17934642 - 03/10/13 05:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

one wouldn't think so... as the original myc would have eaten the best nutrients, leaving not much for the secondary. Unless of course it was some variety of parasitic myc that fed on that particular one. But it's not like bumping up the substrate really.

A good analogy would be using buds as mulch to grow weed, with the expectation the weed would be more potent for it.

edit: man that fucking confused me the first time I read it, now I'm just wondering. Why not just use a new drop of MS (assuming you are BRFing it) and start again? I'm not seeing any advantage. :shrug: Myc isn't really food for myc, just plants, as I understand it.


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Edited by tropicalfrenzy (03/10/13 05:19 PM)

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Offlineleon trout
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17934645 - 03/10/13 05:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

your fruiting chamber... where the o.g. mycelium became spent... it is not a sterile environment... transfer from it to a fresh substrate & my money is on a contam...


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ā€œI read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I’m more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.ā€ 
  ~ St. Jerome of Marin
:gd_icon:the bus come by & i got on, that's when it all began:gd_icon:


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OfflineBadaboom
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: leon trout]
    #17934676 - 03/10/13 05:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

leon trout said:
your fruiting chamber... where the o.g. mycelium became spent... it is not a sterile environment... transfer from it to a fresh substrate & my money is on a contam...



I havent had any problems with it yet.. I was just brainstorming future grows :smile:

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Offlinewryly
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17936029 - 03/10/13 09:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I am pretty sure that is not a good way to go. I think compost is organic materials broken down by microbes and fungus providing easier access to the remaining nutrients and byproducts of digestion. I don't think the mycelium, itself, is a fertilizer. Rather, it has broken down the substrate and added waste byproducts. Somebody let me know if I am wrong. :-)

wryly

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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17936875 - 03/11/13 12:47 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

According to Staments it works with different species. Like growing shiitake on sawdust, than oysters, than Stropharia rugosoannulata, than buttons. Or something like that. He says this way a great amount of the substrate will be used for mushroom production, so it raises efficiency.

I imagine it might work with a substrate that is not perfectly balanced. After it's spent, you add some supplement, pasteurize and inoculate. But the question is why one should balance the substrate in the first place (to avoid contams...)? And you can always throw spent substrates into the compost.... right? I'm just wildly speculating.

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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: cli_hlt]
    #17939064 - 03/11/13 02:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

ok well what if you grew cubes on a substrate their known to not break down that well like woodchips
then added something like gynopilus afterward?(aside from the fact that it's unbenificial to both partyies lol)


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Offlinealive
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: cronicr]
    #17940840 - 03/11/13 08:29 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

well i definitly agree that you would be better off just starting from the begining, at the same time i will add the note that i made a grain jar of ksss and left it in the jar for ever..infact it is still there the point was to see if it would eat itself...it did..flushed four times and grew fresh mycelium over spent areas so yes it does work...that being said i re itterate that if its efficacy your looking for your better of starting with clean grain


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17941129 - 03/11/13 09:26 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Badaboom said:
I was thinking about ways to extend the lifespan of mycelium and its growth. . .

My more in depth inquiry is this: After the mycelium has produced fruits to the end of its life, would it then be able to be set in a new BRF substrate to act as a g2g transfer?





No.  Two reasons.  One, it's spent, meaning old age.  It's not about running out of food.  Think of an old man in an assisted living facility.  You can't feed him pizza and Ramen noodles and have him become young and growing again.  What we do is save our young cell lines on master culture slants so we can go back to them for years and years, always grabbing those young cell lines out to grow.  Some of my best shiitake strains are over 30 years old.

The second reason is that contaminants have naturally landed on the cake as it fruited.  When mixed into sterile media, those contaminant spores will germinate and contaminate the new substrate even though the old substrate/mycelium was able to prevent them from germinating.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17959312 - 03/15/13 07:38 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

My thoughts concerning spent substrate is to vermipost it. feed it to worms. The worm castings when done can be used for cultivation again. Im actually curious how many times this can be done, until the substrate is just spent dirt. Im planning to start vermiposting this year, so ill definitely be posting my results.


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1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.

Edited by Sillyputty67 (03/15/13 08:21 AM)

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OfflineDreamingRaven
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: Badaboom]
    #17960556 - 03/15/13 01:46 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I am a complete noob, but when my first cakes seemed to have reached the end of their flushes I took two of them and broke them up into a compost grow bag, it colonized it in a week and this is what I have from that compost after 11 days. 




I had wondered if it was possible to do this several times, using the almost spent myc to colonize something new?  Does it weaken the strain?  Does potency decrease?  This seemed to be along the same lines, if I asked in the wrong thread my apologies.


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Smile! It confuses people. 




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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: DreamingRaven]
    #17960605 - 03/15/13 01:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"Spent" mycellium and "almost spent" mycellium are 2 different things.

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InvisibleSatanschild
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: DreamingRaven]
    #17961586 - 03/15/13 05:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DreamingRaven said:
I am a complete noob, but when my first cakes seemed to have reached the end of their flushes I took two of them and broke them up into a compost grow bag, it colonized it in a week and this is what I have from that compost after 11 days. 




I had wondered if it was possible to do this several times, using the almost spent myc to colonize something new?  Does it weaken the strain?  Does potency decrease?  This seemed to be along the same lines, if I asked in the wrong thread my apologies.




Keep doing it as long as you keep growing mushies like that of course, you'll see for yourself if the potency decreases.
In theory it should weaken as the the dna degrades and does not undergo natural selection in the way that spores do.

Edited by Satanschild (03/15/13 06:45 PM)

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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: DreamingRaven]
    #17962908 - 03/16/13 12:43 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The mycelium ages as it grows. Unfortunately you can't keep this goint for an unlimited time. 1-2-3 is maybe OK. Actually I'm doing this right now, I have a piece of "almost spent" coco coir mixed with fresh compost I made for my Agaricus box and it is completely colonized (will be put into a fruiting chamber about right now).

What you will notice after a few transplantations is that the mycelium will grow less vigorously, the fruits will be different/mutant/less potent maybe and the strain will be more susceptible to infection. This is called senescence or simply aging.

This is why you need a (few) master slant(s) if you have a great strain and you want to grow that from time to time.

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OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: cli_hlt]
    #17973250 - 03/18/13 09:44 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

How about getting two competing myceluim digesting themselves,
Then capture the thermal energy and you have unlimited power..

:fasted:

Like perpetual motion but with very very little motion..

Just a joke guys, tryna cheer you all up..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.

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OfflineDreamingRaven
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: cli_hlt]
    #17973309 - 03/18/13 10:01 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks guys for the information, as time passes I get to read more and experience issues for myself, but others' experience benefits me greatly. I suspected that dna degradation would be an issue, I worked in turf management and worked for a decade for the state park system trying to preserve natural areas while still allowing public access, and this can be an issue with plants as well, we used to periodically uproot and replace certain grasses on the sod farms because that particular field had become weakened, with disease and mutations the main problems. It should have been apparently obvious to me from the start. Question for anyone... I will go out on a limb and guess that if you clone them you don't have that issue, as it is exactly the same genetically as the original ? 
          Okay, this is also the third time in as many days someone mentioned slants, it appears I need to look into this.  I have a wonderful strain of Orissa, very nice flushes and potency, I'd like to keep it. I,of course, have taken some spore prints(something else new to me) , but I was told you could keep growing the same strain for decades with slants. Thanks guys, give me more to read lol


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Smile! It confuses people. 




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OfflineSillyputty67

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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: DreamingRaven]
    #17973452 - 03/18/13 10:42 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Lately im finding just keeping petri's dish cultures in a ziplock bag in the fridge works great. I have a spare fridge for my myco projects now. :dancer:


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1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.

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Offlineodbsmydog
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Re: Will mycelium colonize 'spent' mycelium? [Re: PsilyPhily]
    #17986600 - 03/20/13 08:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PsilyPhily said:
How about getting two competing myceluim digesting themselves,
Then capture the thermal energy and you have unlimited power..

:fasted:

Like perpetual motion but with very very little motion..

Just a joke guys, tryna cheer you all up..

:mushroom2:Phil.




omg, I just seen fast eddy in GG park the other day, haha, hilarious.


--------------------
"Eternity is an awful long time to wait, especially near the end" - Woody Allen
"it's like that drug trip in that movie I saw when I was on that drug trip!" - Phillip J. Fry

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