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Invisiblemillzy
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Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: millzy]
    #17875544 - 02/27/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

i would also add that i would find it hard to believe that, under any set of legal circumstances, we could improve the availability of drugs. drugs are on tap everywhere. the main thing that can, and should in my opinion, be controlled is where those drugs are coming from.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: millzy]
    #17875694 - 02/27/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I have a very real issue, as a matter of policy, with capitulating to criminals and suddenly making their conduct legal simply because we can't stop it.

I don't see any reason to lock up users, and I don't see a need for crimes of possession.  I also don't see any reason that distribution and manufacture should be legal other than the whole "we can't stop it" argument.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17876029 - 02/27/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

i share your concerns. legalization does not necessarily imply legitimizing everyone who manufactures recreational drugs but rather makes them legal to manufacture for human consumption. i'm sure many companies with no criminal connections would be able to fulfill that role. i'd rather have good ole american pharm companies making my stuff than anyone else. can you imagine the quality of the 2ci that merck could crank out?


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17877754 - 02/27/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You should be allowed to fuck yourself up in any way you see fit and I should have no obligation to do anything about it except dispose of the body like I would dispose of any other garbage lying in the street.




You're so tough bro.


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #17878688 - 02/28/13 04:01 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I have a very real issue, as a matter of policy, with capitulating to criminals and suddenly making their conduct legal simply because we can't stop it.




But legalization is the opposite of capitulating to the criminals. The criminals in the black market community benefit from drugs being illegal. If the drugs were legal, they would mainly be produced by pharmaceutical companies. If anything, legalization is a capitulation to the pharmaceutical industry. Not to criminals operating in the black market.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17880926 - 02/28/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I do.  They sell a harmful and addictive substance to the public without warning purchasers of the dangers of that substance. 




So what?  Would warning labels satisfy you? 
Quote:

Sounds like a pretty serious crime to me.




It's only a crime because it's against the law.  If the law changed it wouldn't be a crime.  Duh.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17880950 - 02/28/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Would warning labels satisfy you? 


Possibly.
Quote:

It's only a crime because it's against the law.  If the law changed it wouldn't be a crime.  Duh.



That's brilliant.  The same can be said of murder.

Of course, the important word in my sentence was "serious".


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17880951 - 02/28/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I have a very real issue, as a matter of policy, with capitulating to criminals and suddenly making their conduct legal simply because we can't stop it.




If it was legal they wouldn't be criminals.  If it was legal other people would drive these losers out of the business.  We should make the conduct legal because in a free society you should be free to ruin yourself any way you see fit.  Or not.  Not everybody who uses drugs becomes a hopeless street corner bum.
Quote:



I don't see any reason to lock up users, and I don't see a need for crimes of possession.  I also don't see any reason that distribution and manufacture should be legal other than the whole "we can't stop it" argument.




Possession and use are OK but manufacture and distribution is not?:facepalm:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17880971 - 02/28/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Possession and use are a matter of individual freedom and choice.  Manufacturing and distribution are specifically intended to affect others.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17880986 - 02/28/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Would warning labels satisfy you? 


Possibly.
Quote:

It's only a crime because it's against the law.  If the law changed it wouldn't be a crime.  Duh.



That's brilliant.  The same can be said of murder.

Of course, the important word in my sentence was "serious".




You made the asinine statement that it was a crime.  Duh.  You have no problem with people using just distributing and selling?  And if they put out a quality product and label it?  Is that still a serious crime in your eyes?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17880993 - 02/28/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Possession and use are a matter of individual freedom and choice.  Manufacturing and distribution are specifically intended to affect others.




:flowstone:So?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #17880998 - 02/28/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You should be allowed to fuck yourself up in any way you see fit and I should have no obligation to do anything about it except dispose of the body like I would dispose of any other garbage lying in the street.




You're so tough bro.



I grant you freedom and with it the responsibility to accept the consequences of your choices.  You are a man now, my son.  Choose wisely.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17881068 - 02/28/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Dealers don't put a gun to their customers' heads and force them to buy their product; it's a perfectly legitimate free market transaction. Same goes for manufacture. I would be in favor of some regulations such as required warning labels, purity standards and full ingredient disclosure though. :thumbup:


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Enlil]
    #17884628 - 03/01/13 03:18 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Possession and use are a matter of individual freedom and choice.  Manufacturing and distribution are specifically intended to affect others.




Manufacture and distribution of all consumer goods are intended to make money. Making money on selling vitamins and medicines is of course somewhat more morally right than making money on selling tobacco and heroin. But it is much better to put additional taxes and regulations on the sale of tobacco and heroin then, rather than to make it illegal. Illegalization of tobacco and heroin will just transfer the manufacture and distribution of these products to the black market. We want to keep the manufacture and distribution of tobacco and heroin within the legal system in order to prevent it from being manufactured and distributed in the black market.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Zanthius]
    #17885817 - 03/01/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

i think it would be more than acceptable to allow people to grow their own marijuana. manufacturing everything else requires a laboratory and often requires flammable chemicals. that presents a danger to any community. i would much prefer that companies equipped with properly trained personnel, proper equipment and lab space manufacture any drug than someone in their apartment. extracting would be the exception to that rule as well as making ayahuasca because neither can cause buildings to explode if something goes wrong.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: millzy]
    #17885872 - 03/01/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
i think it would be more than acceptable to allow people to grow their own marijuana. manufacturing everything else requires a laboratory and often requires flammable chemicals. that presents a danger to any community. i would much prefer that companies equipped with properly trained personnel, proper equipment and lab space manufacture any drug than someone in their apartment. extracting would be the exception to that rule as well as making ayahuasca because neither can cause buildings to explode if something goes wrong.




I think it would be okay if people grew marijuana and smoked it themselves, but if somebody started to grow large amounts of marijuana in order to sell it, they should also produce labels with information about what it contains ( for example how many percentage THC ) and about potential side-effects ( for example laziness and apathy ). They should probably also pay some taxes. The same goes for large scale production and sale of ayahuasca, shrooms or any other plant derived drug. For the production of synthetic drugs there should probably be some additional requirements to lab equipment, competence of lab workers, and so on.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: Zanthius]
    #17885909 - 03/01/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

if everything were legalized it is likely that everything would be professionally manufactured or grown. licensing would be needed to manufacture and/or sell anything. i would tend to think that home growers would be like home brewers. that is, vastly outnumbered in contrast to people who just buy their beer and not really much to worry about.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Why should drugs be legal? [Re: millzy]
    #17906188 - 03/05/13 12:11 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Psychedelic drugs should be legal because the current status quo is almost a complete chaos of dominance, oppression and runaway fear, a situation in which no one except a very rich elite seem to be winning, and they are spiritually defunct, so really they're just more prisoners in their own insane asylum... so really... no one wins on planet Earth. The most popular reaction to this is nihilism and natural selection bullshit, ie. reality isn't good enough because I'm sad. The truth is God alone exists and this is all God Itself, ie. we are all One, and one with God. It is all effectively a big game of pretending. But this is God so it's quite an act, quite a painful, messy act.

Psychedelics through their nature of shutting down the brain/brain filters and welcoming in Reality, would open us up to the possibility that everything we are educated in is wrong, that the culture is all wrong, that Love really is the answer, which the religions have been claiming since the start. It would all work out fine, but instead we're holding a gun to our own head, with the planet behind us, right in the firing line, and the substances that would reveal all this to us are illegal to the point of imprisonment.

We're basically in a preposterously fucked up state. Psychs are the only answer left since we're pretty much over the waterfall.

That's why they should be legal.


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My shield...
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