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OfflineTmethylM
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Another reason I don't use monotub liners * 4
    #17838954 - 02/20/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

As long as you don't over mist and have decent FAE, you can successfully fruit on the bottom and sides with no aborts.
It's basically just more fruiting area. It does increase yields when compared to using a liner in my experience.
Sure, they are more difficult to harvest... but I just tilt the tub on it's side, let the cake lean outwards and pick them off the sides and bottom.
It's effortless and productive. Takes less than 1 minute per tub.
(applying a liner takes longer, and decreases fruiting area dramatically)


The mushrooms will lift the entire substrate using hydraulic pressure, they have no problem doing so.
Let your mushrooms do their thing. Let them develop where they want to develop.


Front view of top and bottom fruiting, sides are also fruiting in areas. (random MS grow)





Bottom of tub




Further elaboration:

The most obvious benefit to more surface area is mainly aimed at MS grows. They almost never get a full canopy due to poor fruiting genetics in areas of the substrate. Having more surface area equals more total weight when using MS because there are more areas of fruiting genetics exposed to fruiting conditions.

Fact is, the top canopy in the tub above would still be the same top canopy with a liner on or off. But without a liner there is an increase in yield. A very noticeable increase.

The use of an isolate could probably drain the substrate with just a top canopy and not using a liner would likely not increase yields.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Tmethyl (02/21/13 07:14 AM)

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Offlinejjbigbuds
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17839043 - 02/20/13 10:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Very nice. Your contributions to this site are fantastic. I remember HippieChick making a strong case for taking slabs out of trays to expose as much fruiting area as possible in her Martha. Similar concept, and good advice all around.

I guess I've always assumed that if there isn't a side and bottom area, the total potential yield remains about the same, but in a more confined area (the top). Now two respected members say, side & bottom: let'em go.


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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #17839056 - 02/20/13 10:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

would all the moisture build up in the bottom be bad for the shroomies? like maybe rotting if you dont harvest soon enough?

will this always happen without a liner? or is this a best case scenario?

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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: michgan241]
    #17839082 - 02/20/13 11:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

michgan241 said:
would all the moisture build up in the bottom be bad for the shroomies? like maybe rotting if you dont harvest soon enough?

will this always happen without a liner? or is this a best case scenario?



As long as the moisture doesn't get out of hand it's fine, you can simply dump off excess moisture by tilting the monotub, but I've not found it to be necessary in regular cases. Aborts have not been an issue whatsoever. You can see in the pic the bottom fruits are healthy and not discolored or aborting.

It happens this way for me every time, I have other tubs fruiting in the exact manner right now. All MS.


To be clear, I'm not encouraging people to stop using liners. If you like liners, use them.
I'm simply encouraging people to get more mushrooms for less effort. :smirk:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #17839822 - 02/21/13 05:16 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jjbigbuds said:
:thumbup:

Very nice. Your contributions to this site are fantastic. I remember HippieChick making a strong case for taking slabs out of trays to expose as much fruiting area as possible in her Martha. Similar concept, and good advice all around.

I guess I've always assumed that if there isn't a side and bottom area, the total potential yield remains about the same, but in a more confined area (the top). Now two respected members say, side & bottom: let'em go.



Thank you jj, more fruiting area certainly increases yield.
I've had full canopies on top (no room for more mushrooms to grow if I used a liner)
And nearly full canopies on sides and bottom, on the same tub. The liner limits potential, basically.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17839864 - 02/21/13 05:41 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting. :strokebeard:

Thanks for posting this.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: nooneman] * 3
    #17839869 - 02/21/13 05:48 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I don't buy into the thought that increasing surface area increases yield.  A given volume of substrate can only support so much product, which can be a few large mushrooms on one surface or lots of smaller ones on multiple surfaces.  I've not found any difference in yield at all.

It's more practical to fruit substrate blocks elevated on wire racks where all six sides are exposed.
RR


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17839945 - 02/21/13 06:32 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Having a full canopy of large mushrooms on top with no space left to fruit, then having more mushrooms develop on bottom and sides makes more fruiting surface desirable.

The most obvious benefit to more surface area is mainly aimed at MS grows.
They almost never get a full canopy due to poor fruiting genetics in areas of the substrate.
Having more surface area equals more total weight when using MS because there are more areas of fruiting genetics exposed to fruiting conditions.

Fact is, the top canopy in the tub above would still be the same top canopy with a liner on or off.
But without a liner there is an increase in yield. A very noticeable increase.


The use of an isolate could probably drain the substrate with just a top canopy and not using a liner would likely not increase yields.
But as I said above, this is MS. Using a greenhouse to fruit a large cake would be optimal obviously. This technique is about less work and more yield, not pretty fruits.

I'll come through with evidence as I always do, I do not make empty claims based on speculation.
This has been a developed technique, made on actual grows.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Tmethyl (02/21/13 06:45 AM)

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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17839965 - 02/21/13 06:45 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I wish I knew this when I was doing bulks, never used liners and always ended up trimming side/bottom pins before they were ready. Awsome write up as usual :super:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #17840026 - 02/21/13 07:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I agree Tmethyl.

Given the high spawn:sub ratios people use, I don't see how a canopy on top can necessarily use all the nutrients in 1 flush.

As stated in the past, if dialed in correctly, the 1st flush should use a majority of the nutrients.

With the high spawn ratios being used, it would seem 6-sided fruiting would be the more efficient way to get higher yields, as opposed to multiple flushes.

I say, get as much as you can in 1 flush before any potential contams set in.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #17840120 - 02/21/13 08:08 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Good point about getting more fruits before contamination sets in.
But I never dump the substrate after one flush I typically get 3 flushes like a normal monotub, except its 3 flushes on 6 sides instead of 1.
Then I dry the substrate(for storage) and use as fertilizer on plants, regardless of contamination.

3 flushes with a liner and 3 flushes without have proven a difference of night and day in regards to total yield when I'm using MS.


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Invisiblebillb
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17840231 - 02/21/13 08:49 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Here's a couple pic's of the bottom of a un-bagged tub. I never get good results with un-bagged tubs.:sad:

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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: billb]
    #17840237 - 02/21/13 08:53 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yes those pins look so unhappy Bill. :lol:


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Invisiblebillb
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17840261 - 02/21/13 09:03 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Yes those pins look so unhappy Bill. :lol:



That particular tub had the best pin set I ever had, but the genetics of the so called "Ecuador" spores I had were shit.The mushrooms never got bigger then about an inch and the tub eventually contaminated. So yes :sad:

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OfflineMrBreakingBad
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: billb]
    #17840350 - 02/21/13 09:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)



I think I'll stick with a liner. I like that the fruits are easily accessible, and the nutrients will be there for the next flush


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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: MrBreakingBad]
    #17840645 - 02/21/13 10:45 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i agree liners arent necessary. they obstruct your view of the substrate so new cultivators will have a tougher time knowing when there mono is fully colonized.
also if it contams on the side/bottom how would you know?
plus if the RH is to low on the surface of the sub, your mono will just give you hella side pins and make up for the weak middle. but a liner would stop that.
liners are just another step that makes things more complicated with no clear benefits...unless side pines are something you simply cannot stand


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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: XLucy in the SkyX] * 1
    #17840687 - 02/21/13 10:54 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

XLucy in the SkyX said:
i agree liners arent necessary. they obstruct your view of the substrate so new cultivators will have a tougher time knowing when there mono is fully colonized



You won't have this problem if you mix the spawn in with the sub evenly, it should all colonize evenly, so when the surface is colonized, so is the whole thing.

Edited by PussyFart (02/21/13 10:57 AM)

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OfflineXLucy in the SkyX
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: PussyFart]
    #17840712 - 02/21/13 10:59 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

XLucy in the SkyX said:
i agree liners arent necessary. they obstruct your view of the substrate so new cultivators will have a tougher time knowing when there mono is fully colonized



You won't have this problem if you mix the spawn in with the sub evenly, it should all colonize at once.




its not always to easy to mix spawn and sub evenly they tend to separate. you've never had a tub that was fully colonized except on little spot on the bottom? ive had a couple


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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: XLucy in the SkyX]
    #17840744 - 02/21/13 11:03 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Sure, but they still fruit fine right?

For me the do at least, but the uncolonized spot(s) are usually really small.

Was just sayin.

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OfflineXLucy in the SkyX
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Re: Another reason I don't use monotub liners [Re: PussyFart]
    #17840769 - 02/21/13 11:07 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

sure mate. thats what the boards are for. discussion :cheers:


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