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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Quick Questions. Is this Ergot?
    #17836616 - 02/20/13 03:20 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I've been noticing "black grains" in the rye berries I buy from a "whole foods" farm near my home. I was wondering if this is Ergot? And if it is Ergot how are they able to sell rye berries for human consumption when it contains Ergot ?










Thanks !

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17836690 - 02/20/13 03:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Looks like it.  It's awfully hard to grow organic rye without getting ergot.  Here's a few of mine from last summer.  We always plant some of our rye berries as feed for the deer, turkeys, etc., and it almost always gets ergot, especially if we have a wet spring.
RR



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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17837020 - 02/20/13 04:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sweet. Except that they sell this for people to eat.
Would somebody have to consume a vast amount of the Ergot I showed you before death would occur?

I actually am close to you, and haven been tracking Ergot in my area and it seems to appear naturally between specific dates Aug 12th - 15th every 8 - 9 years (following a wet July), and this is in a city of millions.

I'd like to bounce a few more questions off you, cuz I know you know your stuff.

1. Is the Ergot I showed you able to be cultured or is it to far gone?
(like has it been processed, or maybe without Honey Dew it's no longer viable for culturing?)

2. The other question is a Mushroom question.
You can view it here: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17821314/fpart/2/vc/1

I've done almost perfect my first time through and tailored the process the whole way, but like anything there were a couple of tiny hiccups. The one mentioned above in question #2 being the latest.


Cheers!

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Offlinebrbphone
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17837831 - 02/20/13 07:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting.  I usually find these in my winter rye.  Always wondered what they were.

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: brbphone]
    #17840246 - 02/21/13 08:56 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure when the crop my bag was produced from, but I think it's summer. And yeah it's nuts, hard to believe they could let any of that into the human food chain...

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Offlinebrbphone
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17840459 - 02/21/13 09:58 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm wondering if it really poses any threat after the grains have been processed.

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: brbphone]
    #17840531 - 02/21/13 10:17 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

That was my question for Mr. Rabbit; however, he has yet to respond.
I image though once it's been dried it would still contain a small amount of lysergic acid (maybe 2%) and the other nasty chems produced in the Ergot head; however, it maybe much less poisonous due to no longer containing the "honey due" which are the spores needed for cultivation.

All questions I'd love to have confirmed or denied.

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Offlinebrbphone
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17840619 - 02/21/13 10:39 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Would also like to see someone in the know chime in here.

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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: brbphone]
    #17850013 - 02/22/13 10:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I've seen it in the health food store bulk grain bins.  I always just assumed that there was a minimal allowable amount because it is so difficult to remove from the grain.

The Google says:

The legal limit of ergot is 0.3 per cent by weight for rye or wheat and 0.1 per cent for barley, oats, or triticale. Grain is classified as "ergoty" if it exceeds this level and is of lower value. Ergot toxins are not destroyed by baking.

From here:
http://www.apsnet.org/edcenter/intropp/lessons/fungi/ascomycetes/Pages/Ergot.aspx

If its not too old, it is probably viable.  Sclerotia is the dormant stage of Claviceps purpurea.  From what I remember, you just need to rehydrate and chill it to stimulate the formation of the tiny mushroom-like fruit bodies.


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Offlinebrbphone
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: Workman]
    #17850807 - 02/23/13 01:19 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Asked another mycologist about this and apparently it should still be possible to culture in this state.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17851194 - 02/23/13 04:32 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, I can't answer any questions about culturing ergot. 
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17867384 - 02/26/13 03:07 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Funny to see the same question within a month
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17640019

If you want to try to grow stroma, do as RR says. place them in a fridge for a few weeks, and then place them in a humid environment. I did that a few years ago and 1/20 grew stroma:


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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: knarkkorven]
    #17875942 - 02/27/13 04:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It's all good Roger Rabbit. Your help was certainly appreciated.

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: Workman]
    #17876209 - 02/27/13 05:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Wow. That was basically the exact information I was looking for; however, it does leave me with a few other questions that hopefully you can answer.

1. When they are rehydrated do they have to chill them at the same time as they soak (soak them in water while leaving them in the fridge for 2 weeks?), or do they need to be rehydrated separately (for say 24 hours in cold water and then removed from the cold water and stored in a cold dry place for the remained of the two weeks)?

2. It was my understanding that cultures could only be made from the "honey due" of active ergot heads; otherwise I'm wrong and grain cultures can be spawned from the stromata (unless these are the active heads!?). Is this the case?

3. Lastly, once the stromata is had can they be spawned normally on Rey Berries just like other mushrooms (crushing up the stromata and then spreading it on the sterile rye berrie substrate?), or would one have to collect whatever is needed to inoculate (honey due) a grain culture?

Thanks !

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: knarkkorven]
    #17876218 - 02/27/13 05:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Cool photo's! Are those pics of the ones you spawned?

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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: ZoomerMan420]
    #17878762 - 02/28/13 04:59 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

1. I actually placed mine in a jar outside during the winter
2. honey dew is produced by ergot growing on the host species
3. I don't know if this is possible

I suggest you find and read ERGOT The Genus Claviceps by Vladimír Køen and Ladislav Cvak.

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OfflineZoomerMan420
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Re: Quick Questions. Is this Ergot? [Re: knarkkorven]
    #17879561 - 02/28/13 10:48 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I have it. I will read it. Just need to find the time.

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