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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: neutralizer]
    #1784460 - 08/06/03 09:01 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Have patience! History moves past us quicker than it has ever done for humans throughout known history and still it seems too slow to us! I have faith in evolution..most of the time!

Peace


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1784632 - 08/06/03 10:24 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Accept that the problems in the world are real, do it with good grace, and then accept that changes need to be made...and they're not gonna be made by people who don't see the problems  :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: GazzBut]
    #1784649 - 08/06/03 10:30 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I think that's maybe one of the core issues that causes my freakout, though, Gazz.  History is moving faster than it ever has before, and it's both that intrinsic motion and the direction in which it's moving that scares the crap out of me.  It would seem that Trendal and Neutralizer will understand what I'm saying here.  I acually see that motion - our 'forward progress', if you will - as a series of patterns rather than a series of events or people or actions.  And part of that pattern seems to be a giant spot where stuff should be happening but isn't - this is where people should be being conscious of their world and learning and educating themselves and taking pride in their abilities and similarities and differences and where they become caring and loving... bah - I'm being goofy again. 

But the fact that they hole exists in that pattern seems to have (irrevocably?) shifted the primary vector of our history - which, as you pointed out is moving incredibly quickly, and therefore we have less of a window of opportunity to affect change - towards a place that is as obvious to me as the nose on my face a place that we do not want to be.

This is where the frustration and, honestly, lack of patience come from, I think.

Quote:


trendal said
I often wonder: are we set aside? Or do we set ourselves aside? Personally I think we're just a little too "different" for the "average person". Most people are more alike than they know, but some people are less alike than most know. Most people will have trouble following one of my more abstracted thoughts, but I can easily converse with the "select few" friends I have who share the same method of thinking/speaking. I would think that if I was just plain "crazy", that group of like-minded people shouldn't understand me. Either that or we're all crazy. I'm not sure about myself...but I think most people are pretty sane

I think there is a connection to be formed...if the effort is put in on both sides. But I also think it's a natural aspect of my "type" of personality to be fairly incompatible with most people on anything more than a superficial level. To them, yeah, we are just too alien

I don't have a hard time understanding most people, but most people seem to have a hard time understanding me. Oh well, just part of the price of being a little more unique than "normal" 




Thanks - that pretty much hit the nail on the head.  It's tough to articulate that feeling to those who don't feel it.  Hell - I imagine there are a handful of people who have looked at this thread and thought that we were arrogant and self-centered for the way we're talking.

"Average People?!?  Who does he think HE is, talking about how he's so much different than 'average people'?!?!"

Trendal, this is one of the things that I find the most odd.. well, interesting, at least.  Being fairly funny and reasonably charismatic, I find that people are drawn to me in the early stages of a social relationship.  Just as you said, I meet a lot of people who seem to have the initial qualifications of a "good potential friend".  But after some period of time, that initial small connection just vaporizes.  No hard feelings, no whispering about me behind my back.. just a drifting away.  Very strange.

I often wonder: are we set aside? Or do we set ourselves aside?

That might just be the crux of the biscuit, right there.  If I can figure out the answer to that question, I might just be on my way.

Have you ever heard of the Indigo Children?
No, but I'll be going right now to do a bit of research :smile:


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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OfflinePyronate
Prying open mythird eye

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 100
Loc: Forever I walk among the ...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1785309 - 08/06/03 02:21 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I am also an INTP, and relate strongly to much of what has been said here.

For the most part, I avoid social interaction. I find it painful to converse with most people, as I very rarely gain anything from it and tend to very quickly become aware of their severe intellectual failings. The general preoccupation of most people with the shallow society we live in disgusts me, and finding people who transcend that is difficult and rare.


As for what to do: There is nothing that can be done. The system is doomed to failure. The only way we could even hope to salvage it would be an overhaul of all political systems and the exclusive empowerment of philanthropic INTPs. Thus, I acknowledge the impending failure of the system and I accept it. I do nothing to try to change it. I do nothing to open minds that are already closed; I merely attempt to further widen minds that are open.


I'd like to say more, but I must go. Back later, at which point I will speak more on this subject.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)

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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: Pyronate]
    #1785494 - 08/06/03 03:14 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I look forward to it.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 635
Loc: This Planet Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1785744 - 08/06/03 04:18 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Pyronate, don't forget about us INFPs in the new system of government :tongue:  I'm a feeler, not a thinker.  Seems that wether we're feelers or thinkers, we're still talking about the same thing.  What other personality types line up with the likes of us?


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison

Edited by neutralizer (08/06/03 04:19 PM)

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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
Male

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 842
Loc: OR
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Help me come to grips with something. [Re: neutralizer]
    #1786466 - 08/06/03 08:16 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

That's a good question. Kiersey has a book out that not only profiles the personality types in-depth, but has a pile of enneagrams (sp?) that interconnect the different personality types along different wavelengths. I'll be making a trip to Borders tomorrow, I think.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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