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OfflineMello KittyS
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struggling with spirituality
    #17813854 - 02/16/13 03:46 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith


--------------------

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OnlineBuster_Brown
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17813902 - 02/16/13 03:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

A near death experience brought it on for me. I don't know if that can be duplicated.

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OnlineBuster_Brown
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17813913 - 02/16/13 03:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I mean, I don't know if a near death experience would revitalize your spirituality.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17813916 - 02/16/13 03:56 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

welcome back to S&M ellen :smile:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineAlmond Flour
...get off my lawn!
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17813922 - 02/16/13 03:57 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I notice your emotional status says drunk.

Step #1 get off all drugs


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17813960 - 02/16/13 04:03 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Honestly it seems likely that what is killing your spirituality the most is wanting to hang on to it. Sometimes things need to have the freedom to die so something new can take place.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlinedeff
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17814112 - 02/16/13 04:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

if you have a hard time believing in a God, perhaps Buddhism might fill your spiritual aspirations as it's such a spiritually rich tradition (imo) without the inclusion of a creator deity. Buddhism emphasizes the relative qualities of love and compassion which can totally enrich and flood your heart while also diving deep into the wisdom which liberates one from all suffering. best of luck with your spiritual pursuit, may it be of infinite benefit to you :smile:

if you're interested in checking out Buddhism, then i'd suggest finding a local Buddhist centre to visit, i'm sure you'll be welcomed with much love :sun:


--------------------


Edited by deff (02/16/13 04:32 PM)

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty] * 4
    #17814148 - 02/16/13 04:36 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Hello Vishnu



--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: g00ru]
    #17814155 - 02/16/13 04:37 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:rofl:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineBeeLightofVictory
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #17814338 - 02/16/13 05:12 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Reconnecting with spirit doesn't necessarally have to come from a religion. You can find God (or whatever name you choose to call our divine creator) on the way to the gas station. It can come from anywhere and in all forms, we just need to be aware of the signs that are placed there for us.

My best advice is to start releasing all doubt of not getting back in touch with spirit. Try and live completely in the moment. Don't dwell on the past and don't worry about the future.

Try and let your inner voice guide you. Other's may offer you advice or even tell you what to do but if it doesn't feel right to you then I can almost guarentee that it isn't. We all find truth in our own ways, something that helped another person might not work for you.

Try and do what you feel like doing in the moment. It could be something as simple as going online, watching a movie, shopping, walking the dog, ANYTHING really! (obviously without intentionally hurting another, lol) Trust that inner feeling. It is what is going to guide you to find what you need to reconnect with spirit. I understand we all have responsibilities and whatnot but even through those we can find things we need, just try and pay attention.

Don't worry, you will find your way, just be patient! That was and still is the hardest thing for me. :-)


--------------------



We are not human beings having a spiritual experience
We are spiritual beings having a human experience

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Offlinelolwut
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17816940 - 02/17/13 02:07 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Well you could try starting to meditate. It would help increase your attention span I think and bring other benefits. Nothing more spiritual than meditating afaik


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17817160 - 02/17/13 04:27 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith




its quite a common thing, even for a few years after having lots of spiritual realizations for some reason i still didn't like the word 'God', it was a turn off, although i've come to be totally comfortable with it now, so it is possible to get over these little things, its just one little syllable at the end of the day, an evolved monkey making a sound with his vocal chords!

but the turbulence a little concept can evoke in you can be something worth paying attention to, like why do you not like the word 'the lord'? perhaps because it evokes a kindof stale narrow christianised vision of reality, or perhaps because you don't like the idea of giving yourself up/surrender, maybe a bit of both...

i don't think its a bad thing that we can lack faith because it shows a yearning for your own genuine discovery, you don't just want to take someonelses word for it, you want to see yourself, we don't want to believe anything blindly, we want to at least see before believing/trusting, sometimes we need knowledge before faith, vice versa

i think what your doing is good, reading little bits, rather than filling your head with lots of stuff, the smallest little thing can be the gateway to the biggest discovery you will ever make, often the greatest spiritual texts have been condensed into one sentence or less, like the bhagavad gita & all the vedas condensed into the statement 'tat tvam asi' (thou art that)

ultimately finding the truth, or reality, what some people call 'god' is just finding yourself, so the best thing you can do is be comfortable with yourself, be comfortable with 'the big hole in your heart', this is true spirituality as you are spirit so being comfortable with yourself is opening up to your own spiritual nature, so no theology, philosophy, book, guru, or community can do this for you, sure they can help, but none can do it for you, you alone have to bear your own presence, which is ultimately infinite

if anything the only faith you need, is the faith that you can be fully comfortable with yourself


--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (02/17/13 04:35 AM)

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OnlineBuster_Brown
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17818615 - 02/17/13 11:18 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

A retreat focusing on prayer and fasting would probably do the trick, but the responsibility is going to be yours as in how much you want to keep fasting. For someone who isn't versed in psychoactives a more entertaining approach might have something to do with entheogens.

Entertainment being the key I think our own willingness to discover will lead us down the path that suits us.

Edited by Buster_Brown (02/17/13 11:19 AM)

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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17819161 - 02/17/13 01:26 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
...but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith



How do you understand "faith"?  How do you define it?

What do you think it is that others have and that you're lacking?

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OfflineRedpill


Registered: 01/23/13
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17819626 - 02/17/13 02:26 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

You could try to see the beauty in life, nature, all of the universe. Something earth centered or humanist. That's what I do anyway. I too hate the term "lord" and can not accept the idea of God, but I go to a Unitarian Universalist church which supports my personal spirituality.

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17821208 - 02/17/13 07:40 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

First step I would recommend is cutting off religion, meditate and use your head.



Quote:

Almond Flour said:
I notice your emotional status says drunk.

Step #1 get off all drugs




False

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17821277 - 02/17/13 07:53 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

it's actually a really really tough question to answer.

what you have to understand is that you cannot say for certain when you will have a moment of clarity, or a spiritual experience, or a blissful experience or whatever.

drugs make us feel like we can control it but even still we really can't, it's still up to the universe.

so the best thing to do is just try to be your highest self that you can imagine, whatever that means for you.

and of course the basics like meditation, self inquiry, and reading spiritual literature :wink:


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17831695 - 02/19/13 05:43 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Talk to it.

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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty] * 1
    #17832301 - 02/19/13 07:26 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Religious people use a foreign belief system created by another to serve as a template for the experience of faith.

You can get faith and eventually a sense of simple knowing-ness without it, and in a much more embodied sense.

Spirituality is such a vague term but struggling is unnecessary for the pursuit of a spiritual life. Spend more time alone to find your pace in life. Try to be conscious enough to derive pleasure from as many things as you can, for example, the way your clothes keep you warm and cozy, the texture of your table, the vividness and beauty of colors, the magnificence of nature, the taste of ANYTHING especially things that may appear mundane, they can have incredibly complex and pleasureful tastes if you slow your pace down to appreciate it. Live for intrinsic reasons, not extrinsic. Take a breathe and appreciate what it comes from and what it brings.

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Offlinebiophilia
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17833266 - 02/19/13 10:29 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

contemplate everything you've ever been taught about god and flush it out of your mind... Then ask yourself "who am i?" "what am i?" "what is this world and what is my relationship to it?" but you have to be honest and sincere, cry if you have too. ask questions from your heart. contemplate love and possible reasons for existence. ask GOD to show you something, anything. use logic and reason just as much as love and compassion.
    God exists inside you, you just gotta find it. and i sure hope you do!! :smile:


    Or you can take a large dose of LSD alone with the intentions of expanding your mind and being spiritually reborn. But i dont recommend that... thats like a last resort kinda thing :wink:

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OfflineAaronEruditus
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: NastyDHL]
    #17833307 - 02/19/13 10:38 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Hey there!

First off, everybody who has set foot upon the spiritual path will encounter roadblocks sooner or later. They are hurdles meant to be overcome.

Secondly, I know the general consensus around here is that Spirituality > Religion, but the two go hand in hand. So, I think reading up on religious scripture will definitely prove to be a guiding influence, even if at the moment you cannot see how.

Let me share this with you: every religion that has had a significant impact on the cultures around the world was constructed by enlightened people. Religious language, as you have likely noticed, is highly symbolic, and a certain passage which at first seems so obvious in its message can turn into a deep esoteric concept once a proper knowledge of the symbolism therein is had. All the various adepts had to find a way with which to render their lofty, abstract realizations tangible, and the most convenient and effective method was and is using symbolic language.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to not give up on religion just because you think you lack in faith.

You also mentioned the inability to believe in a God, and that words like "the Lord'" turn you off. To me that seems like an issue of a semantic nature (which, by the way, HAUNTS religion and spirituality in general). Maybe you just need to redefine words like 'God' and 'Lord'.

You said you were reading the Old Testament, or Torah, at the moment. I think you might be interested in Jewish mysticsm, called Kabbalah. Kabbalistic teachings have very much been influenced by ancient Egyptian and Grecian philosophy, so the tradition is rich. It is a school of thought which teaches the doctrine of emanationism.

Here, I've provided you with this link to Dion fortune's classic "The Mystical Qabalah". This book completely redefined my conception of God and Creation. I think you will very much enjoy it. It is not an easy read, but its contemplation is worth-while...I promise :smile:

God bless, and take care of yourself.


--------------------
“Science is always discovering odd scraps of magical wisdom and making a tremendous fuss about its cleverness.” ~ Aleister Crowley

“Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it - what weakens us, is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellowmen. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone.” ~ Don Juan Matus

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Offlinebiophilia
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: g00ru]
    #17833346 - 02/19/13 10:46 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ghooru said:
it's actually a really really tough question to answer.

what you have to understand is that you cannot say for certain when you will have a moment of clarity, or a spiritual experience, or a blissful experience or whatever.

drugs make us feel like we can control it but even still we really can't, it's still up to the universe.

so the best thing to do is just try to be your highest self that you can imagine, whatever that means for you.

and of course the basics like meditation, self inquiry, and reading spiritual literature :wink:







This is good stuff, Youre completely right. its funny how we think we can take a massive amount of psychedelics with the intention of going visit divinity and then end up just being really high haha... sometimes i wonder if its really that the universe chooses or if its me slacking at work, or drinkin to much, or eating to much junk or something.. like if its karma. We can only go ride the portals of our DNA if weve been good boys and girls haha. It makes sense from an evolutionary stand point. Like giving a dog a treat when he doesnt take a shit on the floor. The universe is training us like dogs!!!
im just kidding, god is incomprehensible to our puny little minds. all we can do is discipline ourselves and love one another.

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Offlinebiophilia
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: AaronEruditus]
    #17833349 - 02/19/13 10:47 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AaronEruditus said:
Hey there!

First off, everybody who has set foot upon the spiritual path will encounter roadblocks sooner or later. They are hurdles meant to be overcome.

Secondly, I know the general consensus around here is that Spirituality > Religion, but the two go hand in hand. So, I think reading up on religious scripture will definitely prove to be a guiding influence, even if at the moment you cannot see how.

Let me share this with you: every religion that has had a significant impact on the cultures around the world was constructed by enlightened people. Religious language, as you have likely noticed, is highly symbolic, and a certain passage which at first seems so obvious in its message can turn into a deep esoteric concept once a proper knowledge of the symbolism therein is had. All the various adepts had to find a way with which to render their lofty, abstract realizations tangible, and the most convenient and effective method was and is using symbolic language.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to not give up on religion just because you think you lack in faith.

You also mentioned the inability to believe in a God, and that words like "the Lord'" turn you off. To me that seems like an issue of a semantic nature (which, by the way, HAUNTS religion and spirituality in general). Maybe you just need to redefine words like 'God' and 'Lord'.

You said you were reading the Old Testament, or Torah, at the moment. I think you might be interested in Jewish mysticsm, called Kabbalah. Kabbalistic teachings have very much been influenced by ancient Egyptian and Grecian philosophy, so the tradition is rich. It is a school of thought which teaches the doctrine of emanationism.

Here, I've provided you with this link to Dion fortune's classic "The Mystical Qabalah". This book completely redefined my conception of God and Creation. I think you will very much enjoy it. It is not an easy read, but its contemplation is worth-while...I promise :smile:

God bless, and take care of yourself.







I totally agree!! but i feel a person should get his/her own sense of god before studying texts... It can be quite overwhelming to a person reading esoteric texts without having some personal understanding of the their own immortality first.
Religions are beautiful and filled with inspiration.

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OfflineConnoisseur

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17904501 - 03/04/13 06:39 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

Large doses of natural psychedelics can help tremendously

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Kickle]
    #17904573 - 03/04/13 06:50 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Honestly it seems likely that what is killing your spirituality the most is wanting to hang on to it. Sometimes things need to have the freedom to die so something new can take place.




Yea, and I've also found it helps to get out of the "spiritual" and "non-spiritual" dichotomy. This life experience is all one holistic thing and these labels can only deviate from that. :yinyang:

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OfflineTerrapin_Station
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17905370 - 03/04/13 09:14 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

You can always assess what god means to you and interpret him in your own way and how god is relevent in your own life. You don't have to subscribe to any particular organized religion to have faith in god.


--------------------
Looking for a while at the china cat sunflower...:mushroom2:

Edited by Terrapin_Station (03/04/13 09:16 PM)

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Terrapin_Station]
    #17905937 - 03/04/13 11:00 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

If you want spirituality learn about yourself, find out who you are, be yourself, you are "the one", "the one" is not a precious girl, it's you. You are the Divinity, the more you are yourself, the more you will have divinity/spirituality in your universe.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Offlineendogenous
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #17907028 - 03/05/13 08:41 AM (11 years, 26 days ago)

This is a quote from the literature of a religious organization called the "Temple of the True Inner Light".

    The Hindus have a God called "Soma". Hindus today believe that Soma was a plant. However, they no longer know the identity of which plant Soma was, and so, they understand that they are using a substitute for the original.
    The Vedas call Soma "the Creator of the Gods". Thus, Soma was what the Christians call "the Father".
    Most world religions had, or still have, a Communion ceremony. In the "Christian" Communion, they eat a wheat wafer, or drink wine and are then supposed to believe that these substances magically turn into the flesh and blood of God (Christ). They are then supposed to be able to see the "Light" and to receive the "Holy Spirit". When you ask them if they actually saw a real light or heard a real spirit they say "no".
    When a person communes with the true Flesh and Blood of Christ, they see a real Light and receive a real Holy Spirit.
    Does any "Christian" today think that the original Christians didn't see a real Light or receive a real Holy Spirit? Why then does no one today see these things?
    It is our understanding that today's "Christians" have not only lost the identity of the true Host, but they have lost the knowledge that the substance they are calling the "Host", is, in fact, a substitute.


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: endogenous]
    #17907048 - 03/05/13 08:50 AM (11 years, 26 days ago)

Last I heard someone escaped with the treasure while the church killed everyone that was actually taking part.

'This power is too much.'

And, telepathy is the real deal so society would fall apart as it relies heavily on secrecy.

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Offlineendogenous
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #17907264 - 03/05/13 10:11 AM (11 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

FishOilTheKid said:
Last I heard someone escaped with the treasure while the church killed everyone that was actually taking part.




Actually, the church is against all physical violence and killing.

Quote:


'This power is too much.'





?

Quote:


And, telepathy is the real deal so society would fall apart as it relies heavily on secrecy.




You mean it isn't already falling apart?

I think "society" is in great need of gaining some Sense at the present time.

Meanwhile, there is a big scandal happening with homosexual archbishops, and a report that priests in Rome were being blackmailed because of homosexual parties they had staged. The ex-pope, who many think is homosexual, goes to retire in a town which immediately has a small earthquake and the Vatican is hit by lightning -- twice.

"Lightning bolt hit Vatican not once but TWICE hours after Pope's shock resignation!"  (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-bolt-hit-vatican-not-1705156)

"It A Sign? Earthquake Strikes Pope’s Retirement Home" (http://omgghana.com/is-it-a-sign-earthquake-strikes-popes-retirement-home/)


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.

Edited by endogenous (03/05/13 10:15 AM)

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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: endogenous]
    #17907383 - 03/05/13 10:46 AM (11 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Actually, the church is against all physical violence and killing.




:lol:

What about the inquisition?  Have you ever looked up 'inquisition torture devices?'

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OfflineConnoisseur

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: endogenous]
    #17908106 - 03/05/13 01:46 PM (11 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
This is a quote from the literature of a religious organization called the "Temple of the True Inner Light".

    The Hindus have a God called "Soma". Hindus today believe that Soma was a plant. However, they no longer know the identity of which plant Soma was, and so, they understand that they are using a substitute for the original.
    The Vedas call Soma "the Creator of the Gods". Thus, Soma was what the Christians call "the Father".
    Most world religions had, or still have, a Communion ceremony. In the "Christian" Communion, they eat a wheat wafer, or drink wine and are then supposed to believe that these substances magically turn into the flesh and blood of God (Christ). They are then supposed to be able to see the "Light" and to receive the "Holy Spirit". When you ask them if they actually saw a real light or heard a real spirit they say "no".
    When a person communes with the true Flesh and Blood of Christ, they see a real Light and receive a real Holy Spirit.
    Does any "Christian" today think that the original Christians didn't see a real Light or receive a real Holy Spirit? Why then does no one today see these things?
    It is our understanding that today's "Christians" have not only lost the identity of the true Host, but they have lost the knowledge that the substance they are calling the "Host", is, in fact, a substitute.





I tried to go to the temple they supposedly had in NYC but when I got there it was just an apartment complex. What's the deal with it?

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Connoisseur]
    #17910259 - 03/05/13 09:03 PM (11 years, 25 days ago)

A lot of small groups meet up at peoples houses, you could have got bad directions as well. Lots of cults don't have enough members in a particular area to merit spending the money on a building

Just my personal experience

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty] * 1
    #18075514 - 04/08/13 06:24 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith




The past just ended, the future never arrives. There is only one moment

Life is a reflection of your imagination of it

The self is both a novel and its author

Life grants you the gift of choice and at every moment to make a better one

Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.

Fear not for the future, weep not for the past.
Percy Bysshe Shelley

"We're all just walking eachother home."
- Baba Ram Das

“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Prayer is not asking. It is a longing of the soul. It is daily admission of one's weakness. It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

“Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, but define yourself.”
― Harvey Fierstein

“Those who look for the bad in people will surely find it.”
― Abraham Lincoln

“There's much more in any given moment than we usually perceive, and that we ourselves are much more than we usually perceive. When you know that, part of you can stand outside the drama of your life.”
― Ram Dass


“Never look back unless you are planning to go that way.”
― Henry David Thoreau

“Courage isn't having the strength to go on - it is going on when you don't have strength.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte

“To the world you may be one person but to one person you may be the world."

“Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.”
― John WoodenVVVVVVVVVVVvvvvvvvvvvvvv

“No! Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try.”
― George Lucas, Star Wars Trilogy

“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”
― George Bernard Shaw

“Surround yourself only with people who are going to take you higher.”
― Oprah Winfrey

“The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

The words we choose to use when we communicate with each other, carry vibrations. The word ‘war’ carries a whole different vibration than the word ‘peace’. The words we use are showing how we think and how we feel. The careful selection of words, helps to elevate our consciousness and resonate in higher frequencies.”
― Grigoris Deoudis

The elephant goes BWUAAAMP

The only limit is the one you set yourself

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #18079727 - 04/08/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith






Well, you know, before you get all mean at Yeshua contemplate if you would like:


You probably won't find Yeshua at Church either because the images there,

Set off his P.T.S.D. like a MOTHERFUCKER,

and he much rather would TOKE A LOT OF WEED and figure out What's Going On.


Seriously, Reading Psalms is an Excellent Idea.


If you have a hard time with Attention Span, that is o.k., that's actually really honest, couple ideas for Awareness Concentrating:


Avoid T.V. as much as you can.  I don't own a T.V. don't miss the damn thing either.


Read Some Zen Koans and watch some British Comedy while Toked out of Your Mind.


Alcohol is a depressant and will cause difficulty.  It is hard to feel happy when your body is being toxified.

How about some Green Tea while you vaporize some weed?

Weed always makes me feel better, might do the same for you.

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Offlinewormwood whack
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mr.Al]
    #18080423 - 04/09/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Well first thing to note is that you don't have to believe in god to believe in the bible, old or new testament. What you need to be aware of is that, when reading the bible, it's best to look at it in a metaphorical sense. The contradictions seem to slip away when reading it this way. Also, never read something out of context. If it sounds strange, or contradictory, read the surrounding text of that verse and the verse it contradicts, it almost always turns out to be that the contradictions you see are only there because the context is completely different. Also, don't limit yourself to texts but do something simple, and this is going to sound idiotic, but just do it, you'll notice something after a while. Sit, no music, no tv, no books, just silence. just sit or lay down, stand go for a walk, whatever, and just think about yourself, your actions towards yourself, your actions towards others and theirs towards you. You'll see a pattern here if you focus hard enough and think long enough. To explain it would defeat the purpose as it often isn't believed until noticed by oneself. You aren't losing your spirituality, you're questioning it. It is good to question it, losing it however will only lead to cynicism and distaste to most others. It's a commonly said cliche but it holds true. You mus first understand yourself before you can understand others. But you are not yourself, you are the culmination of the experiences you have shared with others. Keep that in mind as you meditate on your experiences through life.


--------------------
There's a reason the word is trip, it's a journey, you should explore while your there instead of sitting in the backseat waiting to get to the end.

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: wormwood whack]
    #18089473 - 04/10/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

You know what I think is fucking ridiculous?


I think it is fucking ridiculous when Motherfuckers don't capitalize GOD.


W.T.F. is wrong with you Mothefuckers, you capitalize each others names all the fucking time,

But you won't capitalize GOD.


Do you think he doesn't notice that Mothefuckers.

That is a mothefucking rhetorical question Mothefuckers.

I am the Good Shepard and I am the Baddest Mothefucker, Motherfuckers, I have spoken.

GOD has always been beyond the comprehension of Everyone Else.


Recently, GOD transmuted Original Sin through Divine Forbearance, GOD could literally kick what he was down the road like a rusted tin can that requires no effort at all, and that is a gross understatement used for ease of explanation.


GOD has become that powerful and Motherfuckers don't even capitalize GOD

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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mr.Al] * 1
    #18091116 - 04/11/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
You know what I think is fucking ridiculous?  I think it is fucking ridiculous when Motherfuckers don't capitalize GOD.  W.T.F. is wrong with you Mothefuckers, you capitalize each others names all the fucking time, But you won't capitalize GOD. Do you think he doesn't notice that Mothefuckers.



"God," as everyone knows, is "dog" spelled backwards.

Dogs are really God, and they are very annoyed that we started spelling their name backwards and started attributing their powers to some imaginary being in the sky.

Please, people.

Stop spelling their name backwards.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: all this beauty]
    #18091998 - 04/11/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

My gods tell me this often.





--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: all this beauty]
    #18093701 - 04/11/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
You know what I think is fucking ridiculous?  I think it is fucking ridiculous when Motherfuckers don't capitalize GOD.  W.T.F. is wrong with you Mothefuckers, you capitalize each others names all the fucking time, But you won't capitalize GOD. Do you think he doesn't notice that Mothefuckers.



"God," as everyone knows, is "dog" spelled backwards.

Dogs are really God, and they are very annoyed that we started spelling their name backwards and started attributing their powers to some imaginary being in the sky.

Please, people.

Stop spelling their name backwards.





I would say that they are similar in the sense that they protect you and are willing to die for you.


Dogs have Character and so does GOD.


Hey, Iceman, are you some kind of idiot satanist or something?  Do you think that your avatar is cool?

I spent a bit of time annihilating demons, so I don't think those things are cool at all.

Sometimes I would use real sharp things, and sometimes I would tear them into very small pieces with my hands.

The demons have all been obliterated, satan as well has been obliterated, to the point that those things literally never even existed.

If you are into garbage like demonic stuff it is kind of like going to a baseball game and cheering for a non-existent team that can't even show up for the game.

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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mr.Al]
    #18095534 - 04/12/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

consider beginning with..

not living in a manufactured environment
eating non-commercially produced food which is in season, cooking it very little, below 110F
not talking
forgetting everything you have convinced yourself of
not using synthetic clothing (or any % synthetic)
not using synthetic soaps
not seeking spirituality from anything other than your self - it is called closing your eyes and sitting still.. for hours, or days, or weeks...


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: filthyknees]
    #18097620 - 04/12/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

filthyknees said:
consider beginning with..

not living in a manufactured environment
eating non-commercially produced food which is in season, cooking it very little, below 110F
not talking
forgetting everything you have convinced yourself of
not using synthetic clothing (or any % synthetic)
not using synthetic soaps
not seeking spirituality from anything other than your self - it is called closing your eyes and sitting still.. for hours, or days, or weeks...




No.

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18097667 - 04/12/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Well, for me it starts with the idea of consciousness being the fundamental force, giving rise to matter. At least open your mind to the idea of it being possible.

Forget about God, that is the ultimate mystery. You don't have to figure that out.

Start with your self, the rest will follow.

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: igCorcaigh]
    #18097693 - 04/12/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with your sentiment, asceticism falls under the same concept. Swimming up river in the wrong direction

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Repertoire89] * 1
    #18098074 - 04/12/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

unless you got the urge to spawn. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Icelander]
    #18098086 - 04/12/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Can't have sex if you're an ascetic lol

Can't do anything fun, life is suffering and all that shit. Fun is sin!

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18098148 - 04/12/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

don't agree at all.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #18098630 - 04/12/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith




You are as close to "spirit" as any of us who have spent 20 or 40 years studying and meditating. That black hole cannot be filled, and any belief system is no different than dope as a means of avoiding it. I see faith as an inherent trust in life and the full integration of perspectives and experiences. Living a balanced and healthy life is not necessarily the same thing as spiritual awakening. Only one in a thousand people truly want to know what they really are, and only one in a thousand of them are willing to do the introspective work to uncover it.

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Middleman]
    #18098806 - 04/12/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

And we all think we're that one. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #18098967 - 04/12/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ellenallien said:
im trying to get in touch with my spirituality. i am turned off by Christianity and the holy trinity. so i am currently reading the Tanakh which is the hebrew bible or basically the old testament i dont know the difference. i have read it before as well as the Qur'an and bhagavad gita, but i have lost my spirituality in every sense and im struggling to get it back. i always loved to read religious text but since my attention span is basically nill at the moment i have decided to read atleast one Psalm a day and after i will move onto the Proverbs.

i have a hard time believing in a god and when i hear words like "the Lord" i tend to just shut down and not want to go any further. but i see religious people and i want what they have which i lack, faith. theres a great big hole in my heart and i am having trouble filling that void. i want to believe but i dont know if i can. i feel so doomed when it comes to faith





During certain phases of the spiritual life, the anthropomorphisms such as the word LORD, may present problems, especially if one does not recognize that the path of devotion to a personal God is only ONE kind of spiritual path. In India, where devotees of Lord Krishna still abound, their path of devotion is known as Bhakti Yoga. Yoga, from the root 'yug,' means 'union,' and it is the root of our English word 'yoke.' In India, all spiritual paths are deemed yogas - types of mysticism. In the West, spirituality is so identified with devotional practices that anything that is not rife with emotion is considered suspect at best and heresy at worst.

The devotional/emotional path also characterizes most of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, but within each of these world religions, there are those whose path is anything but emotional/devotional. Devotion to God is not eliminated, but the approach is not to a 'super person.' Take the great Catholic mystic Meister [Master] Eckhart for example. (The modern mystic, Eckhart Tolle, whose book The Power of Now I HIGHLY recommend, took his first name from this mystic). Had Meister Eckhart not died of natural causes, he would have been burnt at the stake outside of Cologne Cathedral for heresy. He said things which would have been accepted by Jnana yogis in India - the Advaita [non-dualist] school of the Yoga of Knowledge. Eckhart said, "The eye through which I see god is the same eye through which God sees me," thereby establishing an essential, ontological identity of the human spirit with very God. Heresy! This is non-dualism in the East, but non-dualism is only hinted at in western faiths.

To speak openly, as Jesus was said to have done, or as the Muslim mystic al Hallaj did, saying, similarly to Jesus' "I am the way, the truth and the life," "I am truth." al Hallaj had his hands and feet amputated, and was then crucified for saying that! BUT, this does not mean that these mystics were wrong. In fact, I trust the mystics' experiences over any ecclesiastical body and their theologies. In Judaism, only in Kabbalah, and only among those spiritually mature enough to transcend the personal and mythological depictions of God, is the transpersonal nature of God put forth - a nature which becomes increasingly abstract and finally resolves into the Undefined, designated as 'Ain.' Before that qualityless Reality, one finds Ain Sof (The Eternal)), and before that, Ain Sof Aur (The Eternal Light). Before that, one hears, 'Ha Shem,' (The Name), and before that, the numerous Divine Names. These Names reveal much more about the psychology of the people who made personal attributes (e.g., Jealous, Angry, Compassionate, etc.), than anything about the nature of God, of Ultimate Reality.

One can lose faith in concepts, and in emotional responses to names that denote concepts (like LORD), but one cannot lose faith in the existence of THAT (Tat, in Sanskrit), which is Ultimately Real. Behind and before the phenomenal world (Samsara in Buddhism), stands the Noumenal (Nirvana), the Eternally Real, whence all phenomena derive. Whatever you want to call it is your choice, but it is never known intellectually. It is encountered in the primordial experiences known collectively as mysticism. Eckhart Tolle calls it Being, but  the Buddhists as well as the western mystic Jacob Boehme refers to "Byss" and "Abyss," which are both Being and Non-Being. The paths of esoteric Buddhism, Hindu yogas, Theosophical Christianity, Kabbalism, and others, transcend the personifications of Ultimate reality that turn you, me, and a lot of other philosophically-minded seekers of truth off. Do yourself a favor, and don't throw the baby Jesus out with the bath water. You can surpass the spiritually juvenile literal and mythological levels of understanding if you learn that there ARE other understandings. In Kabbalah alone, such multiple levels are acknowledged:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis) ;  A Dark Night of the Soul is a common enough phenomenon IMO, not rare at all. Atheism, Nihilism, Eternalism, and a a bunch of other -isms are no better than their religious counterparts - Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, etc..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_night_of_the_soul

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.toc.html


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/13/13 01:47 PM)

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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18119503 - 04/16/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Tolle is book of the month club, hence not True in terms of pursuing higher Spirituality.



Why haven't folks mentioned Cultivation Practice?

Falun Dafa is a Cultivation Practice, as is Zen, some forms of Yoga, etc.

The key is to not combine any Cultivation Practices.



If someone is not practicing a Cultivation Practice they are not making the kind of progress that they could.


I mean Progress in terms of their Enlightenment Quality, Character, Virtue, ability to stay in a nice even Concentrated Awareness....  All of these things can be improved if an Individual practices a Cultivation Practice that is Upright.


A lot of Philosophers here, if someone is not improving their Character of course they aren't getting anywhere.

Character determines Levels...

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: BeeLightofVictory]
    #18552219 - 07/13/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BeeLightofVictory said:
Reconnecting with spirit doesn't necessarally have to come from a religion. You can find God (or whatever name you choose to call our divine creator) on the way to the gas station. It can come from anywhere and in all forms, we just need to be aware of the signs that are placed there for us.

My best advice is to start releasing all doubt of not getting back in touch with spirit. Try and live completely in the moment. Don't dwell on the past and don't worry about the future.

Try and let your inner voice guide you. Other's may offer you advice or even tell you what to do but if it doesn't feel right to you then I can almost guarentee that it isn't. We all find truth in our own ways, something that helped another person might not work for you.

Try and do what you feel like doing in the moment. It could be something as simple as going online, watching a movie, shopping, walking the dog, ANYTHING really! (obviously without intentionally hurting another, lol) Trust that inner feeling. It is what is going to guide you to find what you need to reconnect with spirit. I understand we all have responsibilities and whatnot but even through those we can find things we need, just try and pay attention.

Don't worry, you will find your way, just be patient! That was and still is the hardest thing for me. :-)




Know it is an old thread  but have something to add

walking in nature, sitting in nature, pets, houseplants, gardening help me reconnect

they all teach me

strangers teach me at the most weird times, when I live in the moment without worries

never worry about anything , never doubt, know everything happens for a reason and at the right times , there are no coincidences

soon a stranger walks up to you and tells you what you need to hear, or someone calls you on the phone or rings your door

just like BeeLightofVictory said

when the time is right...

be happy, make others happy
to be happy I do what I love at all times, love is the soul
follow the heart

hobbies might help too (draw,dance,sing,guitar,...),pets , they find your soul

peace

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore]
    #18552242 - 07/13/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

and I agree with OP about not seeking spirituality

it comes when the time is right, if you seek it you will likely not find it

instead be aware , everything can teach you when you live now without worries

see how pointless fear,frustration,doubt,worrying is
and how much sense acceptance,appreciation makes

the first 4 never makes any sense, but the latter is likely what you did when you were last happy (at least for me)

observe thoughts/emotions/desires, let them pass
only think when needed , because if you think you start thinking too/all the time rather quickly (unless you meditate)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mr.Al] * 1
    #18553420 - 07/13/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Tolle is book of the month club, hence not True in terms of pursuing higher Spirituality.

:lol:  Yeah, and YOUR opinion negates the incredible service this book has provided countless numbers of people including me.  Hey, good words issue from a 'silver tongue', but in this instance, your silence is pure gold.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mr.Al] * 2
    #18554646 - 07/13/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:

A lot of Philosophers here, if someone is not improving their Character of course they aren't getting anywhere.

Character determines Levels...




Your philosophery is bamboozlement. The character will burn. The Actor cannot be improved.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Middleman]
    #18554698 - 07/13/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Middleman]
    #18556534 - 07/14/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Life is about learning isnt it?

It makes sense not getting anywhere if still living as desires

Realize mistakes and learn from them can evolve you too

Learning means stopping up when unhappy, not making the same mistakes again

,But a lot is predetermined, no coincidences :smile:

Living as thoughts/desires/emotions made me unhappy and disconnected from myself
But didnt know at that time it was the cause of my self created suffering

Now i dont have to do anything to be happy
As long as i dont do anything against myself
Have everything i need when living now without worries
Acceptance and appreciation in the moment / no thought

The only way i can stay thought free is by only thinking when needed
And seeing how pointless fear, doubt; frustration is

Dont even have to meditate, as long as i dont do anything against myself

Follow happiness, keep doing it

Meditation only makes it better, but dont do it regularly, nature/now is my meditation
I guess you could say my character is weak, but still learn from mistakes
Everything around me teaches me, when observing, that is how i evolve currently
Meditation doesnt fit into my life currently as i got severe back pain, but one day i hope to get a bit more serious with it (fast+meditate like i used to, although it was mostly lucid dreaming, but hope to learn TM one day)

The most important thing to know is never judge
Accept yourself and others fully
Even people who make your own old mistakes :smile:
I have learned much from my mistakes

Everyone evolves spiritually at the right time, and so do you and I
Seems pre determined

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore]
    #18556903 - 07/14/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Every path is different yet we are all the same, kinda funny

So we cant say what works for others without knowing them
But you can know them the second you see them

Character isnt the only thing that builds
But it helps you stay after awakening I think

It is probably easy to go back to old lifestyle

Admire people who have what it takes to lose all posessions(house too), fast, meditate hours each day even in stressing envrionment/w. Health issues
(But i realize you can have pisessions and fine clothing and money, as long as youre not attached, i chose the middleway, simple lifestyle)
Spirituality isnt only pleasant if one wants to evolve far, often means isolation

I guess thats what you call character

Im happy just being myself, thats progression after all :smile:

Btw to tolles book
Power of now didnt teach me it confirmed my experience(someone gave me it right when i had those experiences)
It helped me not doubt my experience and understand it
And that tolle has had every thought i have it seems
Was like reading own thoughts
But now i think about it im not sure where those thoughts come from..
Have since seen several others saying live now for peace (where i least expected them), fits own exp very well
Peace is here, now

Edited by lessismore (07/14/13 12:34 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore] * 1
    #18557010 - 07/14/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Admire people who have what it takes to lose all posessions(house too),

I do not admire bankruptcy, and I will continue to endeavor to avoid it. I really like my house too. Neither do I want to lose all my possessions until death. I'm not a guru who will be looked after with admiration. I would become a homeless man who is put into an institution for indigents, with bad food, filth, deranged people, danger, poor treatment and little or no opportunity to work on myself or help others. The Middle Way is relative. I do not live in a hovel or a mansion. I am not rich or poor. Death removes everything, but I can choose to give things away selectively before I die. This is the Middle Way for a middle class man like me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Middleman] * 2
    #18557069 - 07/14/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rev. Morton said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:

A lot of Philosophers here, if someone is not improving their Character of course they aren't getting anywhere.

Character determines Levels...




Your philosophery is bamboozlement. The character will burn. The Actor cannot be improved.




I just add "in bed" to the end of whatever Mr. Al says and it all makes perfect sense...  Faux wisdom that is so separated from a living, breathing human being that it may as well be fabricated by a machine is always better that way.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18557398 - 07/14/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Admire people who have what it takes to lose all posessions(house too),

I do not admire bankruptcy, and I will continue to endeavor to avoid it. I really like my house too. Neither do I want to lose all my possessions until death. I'm not a guru who will be looked after with admiration. I would become a homeless man who is put into an institution for indigents, with bad food, filth, deranged people, danger, poor treatment and little or no opportunity to work on myself or help others. The Middle Way is relative. I do not live in a hovel or a mansion. I am not rich or poor. Death removes everything, but I can choose to give things away selectively before I die. This is the Middle Way for a middle class man like me.



Indeed

Possessions only give problems if attached

Well I agree what you say, and it wasn't ment as advice for others at all

It was just thoughts I had a few times after I realized that less is often more(more appreciation), as I live a stressing place(own apartment) with lots of loud neighbors, and I am very sensitive to noise
Need to find a quiet relaxing place to live
Have tried meditating 30mins at a time or so, didn't help much when they started drilling during it/right after and all my furniture shaked
Have tried lucid dreaming 2 hours at a time many times (can't do that here anymore due to noise)
But observing my frustration/anger did, so I just go for a walk everytime now(everyday), nature relaxes me
Still get waked every morning 7am with drilling, hammering and they continue till 10pm every day, sundays too for the past few years
2 people running around with their 2 large dogs on thin wood floor

Doesn't even feel good to describe it, can never live here in the long run(most people probably won't understand unless they tried it themselves)
they just smashed the door in my face when I went there politely asking them to be a little quiet

I'm used to living outside in the country, not in the city.. that's where I want to live again one day

Haven't slept properly for 5 years due to stress from neighbor noise primarily, can only sleep when there is no noise

Everytime I go out the door I feel 100% peace, but not at home (often need to sit/sleep with headphones on due to the noise)
could sleep better at a train station than at home

This apartment is my last remaining attachment I think, but don't feel as attached to it as I used to, and often think I would be better off living somewhere else (just can't sell right now without getting a huge debt)

I try to look at it the other way instead, it is a privilege to have my own place to live, and I got my own garden I love and can do anything I want here
in the long run I know I shouldn't live here though

Some would probably say the stress is in the mind
when I have been in nature for some hours I feel relaxed for the rest of the day often
but the drilling everyday and running around with large dogs on wood floor, is a little excessive, that's why I would like to change home :smile:
(you can't do anything about it if your neighbor drills from 7am to 10pm each day here, it's legal, better to have no neighbors)

apartment is so small so isolating it is not an option

but I agree what you say, need my own place to live and economic stability preferably(always had that thankfully), the rest is optional
just very important with a place where you can be yourself
I love to read, that is pretty hard here (have to go to the library i.e.)
love to lucid dream and sleep too, both don't work out here, but have worked any other place I lived (many places)

Edited by lessismore (07/14/13 03:10 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore]
    #18557826 - 07/14/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I did not enjoy apartment living either. Coke heads did laundry in the middle of the night. I'd awaken from that, 'cause the laundry room was next to my apartment. I'd pull the plug. Twice the laundry flooded and destroyed books that were lined up on the carpeted floor. I am fortunate to have a house in a quiet neighborhood, but having been paid as an educator, despite my own education, the neighborhood turned over to lower and lower socioeconomic homeowners, while the professionals moved out long ago. The original owners were physicians, lawyers, and such. I have had problems with neighbors on both sides of me. I reported one to code enforcement when they turned a shed into a laundry (always laundry problems!) and vented the waste into the ground, which killed a couple of trees. Code people made them disconnect the illegal setup, and then my property was vandalized. I think I'm gonna draw a Voodoo veve on the sidewalk and light a red candle with some chicken feathers, to see if they react by moving. I think the laundry was because they're running an illegal daycare center. They are definitely renting their single-family house to others. Now, someone across the way has a rooster living in his screened porch. Gross! It wakes me, then the dog that lives near it goes off from the rooster.

My yard has become very pretty because of my landscaping efforts, and you'd never know that a few streets over, a young child's birthday party had been invaded by 5 stupid criminals who had the wrong address on a gun deal gone bad, and shot little kids and their mothers. Maybe it's just Miami - subtropical paradise peopled by subhumans. You'd never know that police snipers set up around a hostage situation on the next street, or that a man running for his life the next street over, kicked a random door open just as he was shot to death, dropping dead inside a neighbor's house.

I heard about a friend of a friend of a friend, who lived on Fisher Island in Miami, the most exclusive piece of real estate in the nation. http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/next-america/fisher-island-americas-most-exclusive-zip-code ; He couldn't stand the backstabbing, political climate of the ultra-rich and had to move off the exclusive island. You can't win. If it's really dangerous, ill-effecting your sleep, you might have to take a loss and move. We talked about moving. The real reason I've stayed in Miami has been my job, but I recently lost it after 27 years. We wouldn't have any idea where to go even if I could sell this house for decent money. :shrug: Starting over is a bitch at age 60, even if we appear well-preserved.

I was just reading Perdurabo by Kaczynski - another book about Aleister Crowley. After he ran through his inheritance, he spent a big part of his life in poverty, living off of others, getting evicted and having his belongings held for back rent. How effective was Crowley's magick if it didn't allow for a healthy manifestation on the physical plane? Was Crowley Enlightened in any sense of the word? Hardly. He advocated being unattached to everything, yet, he was a lifelong heroin addict! I'm of Romanian descent on my father's side, but I'm not Roma, not a gypsy. Born under the sign of The Crab, whose pinchers signify attachment, I have to work with that karmic propensity. I am embarrassed to say that I went off on my Lady when she accidentally broke one of my more fragile "dollies" (as she calls them) - a gnome on a mushroom. I was able to glue it together and apologize, but the incident revealed a rather pathetic side of my Cancerian attachment. I am like Freud in this respect. He had hundreds of "dollies," and he couldn't even vacation without taking his favorites with him.

No matter what the real estate, it's all samsaric, and we have a choice of 3: Change things, Leave things, or Accept things.

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18558105 - 07/14/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

It tests frustration vs acceptance

Most days I can get it to work but not all days
Acceptance / going in nature / doing something I love  always helps :smile:

Frustration never helped anybody, doing something is better

Acceptance is what helps me with almost any life situation right now
And appreciation of the small things that give happiness

Being aware of your spiritual side(aka awake?) doesn't mean you stop making mistakes, but it becomes easier to recognize them :-)
The most common mistake I make is judging, but usually realize it before doing it now
judging,frustration,fear,doubt , no need for those :-) (worrying is rare, but no need for that either)
only love is needed

Edited by lessismore (07/14/13 04:47 PM)

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18558300 - 07/14/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
We wouldn't have any idea where to go even if I could sell this house for decent money. :shrug: Starting over is a bitch at age 60, even if we appear well-preserved.





Here's one vote that you do it.  What if I told you of a magical candy land where I can think of a dozen friends off the top of my head who could hold their own in a conversation about Crowley, astrology, and diminutive, alchemical creatures?

Asheville, NC



Many good friends there, and the cost of living certainly couldn't be worse than Miami :smile:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18559392 - 07/14/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:

I just add "in bed" to the end of whatever Mr. Al says and it all makes perfect sense...  Faux wisdom that is so separated from a living, breathing human being that it may as well be fabricated by a machine is always better that way.




:rofl:

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18559401 - 07/14/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I did not enjoy apartment living either. Coke heads did laundry in the middle of the night. I'd awaken from that, 'cause the laundry room was next to my apartment. I'd pull the plug. Twice the laundry flooded and destroyed books that were lined up on the carpeted floor. I am fortunate to have a house in a quiet neighborhood, but having been paid as an educator, despite my own education, the neighborhood turned over to lower and lower socioeconomic homeowners, while the professionals moved out long ago. The original owners were physicians, lawyers, and such. I have had problems with neighbors on both sides of me. I reported one to code enforcement when they turned a shed into a laundry (always laundry problems!) and vented the waste into the ground, which killed a couple of trees. Code people made them disconnect the illegal setup, and then my property was vandalized. I think I'm gonna draw a Voodoo veve on the sidewalk and light a red candle with some chicken feathers, to see if they react by moving.




Shit I would just move out, you'll be fighting a losing battle and one shithead will replace another in a shitty neighborhood.



Quote:

Maybe it's just Miami - subtropical paradise peopled by subhumans.




:lol: Miami ain't no paradise, its a swamp. I spent 2 decades between the Everglades and the beach, its far from paradise. From what I've seen of the world having travelled a dozen countries and most of the US, Florida remains at the bottom of the list in concerns of nature. The only plus it has is warm water with lots of fishes

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18559701 - 07/14/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
We wouldn't have any idea where to go even if I could sell this house for decent money. :shrug: Starting over is a bitch at age 60, even if we appear well-preserved.





Here's one vote that you do it.  What if I told you of a magical candy land where I can think of a dozen friends off the top of my head who could hold their own in a conversation about Crowley, astrology, and diminutive, alchemical creatures?

Asheville, NC



Many good friends there, and the cost of living certainly couldn't be worse than Miami :smile:




That's interesting, out friend Gigi, owns a consignment shop of some sort in Asheville, and has asked us to visit her this summer to take a look. It was one of the places we were thinking of settling in. My wife's ex-husband and his wife are moving there. Rose's daughter would be able to visit all her folks at one location. Hmmm.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18560138 - 07/15/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

HIGH HIGH DOSES!!! lol jk.. but hmm I totally agree on the christianity part. It has brought alot of pain to my life being gay but I would say LSD played a great part in helping me out. I was once atheist but then am now pretty convinced that spirituality does not have to fall into any one religion.

If you need to replace loaded words like "Jesus" or "Christ" with something more spiritual in nature, like "The Light" or "Divine Mother" or "Source", then do it! This helped me a great deal. Funny how that works.

You can find spirituality in connecting with nature, in connecting with others, connecting with yourself, radical acceptance, living in the moment and being compassionate. These are all things that the Divine Mother likes, and this world needs more of. Is it spiritual? Of course! :smile: :smile:

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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: blitzd]
    #18561961 - 07/15/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

blitzd said:
HIGH HIGH DOSES!!! lol jk.. but hmm I totally agree on the christianity part. It has brought alot of pain to my life being gay but I would say LSD played a great part in helping me out. I was once atheist but then am now pretty convinced that spirituality does not have to fall into any one religion.

If you need to replace loaded words like "Jesus" or "Christ" with something more spiritual in nature, like "The Light" or "Divine Mother" or "Source", then do it! This helped me a great deal. Funny how that works.

You can find spirituality in connecting with nature, in connecting with others, connecting with yourself, radical acceptance, living in the moment and being compassionate. These are all things that the Divine Mother likes, and this world needs more of. Is it spiritual? Of course! :smile: :smile:




I had a gay counseling client going through priest-formation. He eventually left before becoming a Catholic priest, and became a nurse, but he used to describe his love-relationship with Christ, much like a nun might. He did not take the judgemental aspect to heart. The word "homosexual" in the King james Bible was an insertion by King James himself, who may have been a self-loathing gay man. There is no word for homosexual in biblical Greek, so it could not have been in the original Greek NT manuscripts. People also pick up on the Hebrew cultic prohibitions of the Tenach (OT) to point a condemning finger at Gays today, but they ignore the numerous other prohibitions. Perhaps you have seen the following spoof on Dr. Laura Schlesinger. If not, enjoy it:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. Clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18561998 - 07/15/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

That's interesting, out friend Gigi, owns a consignment shop of some sort in Asheville, and has asked us to visit her this summer to take a look. It was one of the places we were thinking of settling in. My wife's ex-husband and his wife are moving there. Rose's daughter would be able to visit all her folks at one location. Hmmm.




I hope you take her up on it, if only for a road trip, and :pm: me if you do.  A very good friend of mine, who turned me on to everything from LSD, Watts, Huxley, and Ram Dass (and incidentally was the one who met Stan Tenen of the Meru Foundation in Boston for tea) lives there, and I'd be glad to set you up to meet him.  It's a very granola-nut, vegan-friendly small city with a stellar live music & arts scene that feels quite akin to Portland without all of the :poop: of a big city.  I saw Phish play there in a venue the size of a high school gymnasium :lol:  I love it.  Who knows? It could be exactly the change of pace from Miami that you're looking for.  One thing I feel fairly confident of is that if you can't find anyone interesting to talk to there, you're just not trying hard enough.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18562202 - 07/15/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

That's interesting, out friend Gigi, owns a consignment shop of some sort in Asheville, and has asked us to visit her this summer to take a look. It was one of the places we were thinking of settling in. My wife's ex-husband and his wife are moving there. Rose's daughter would be able to visit all her folks at one location. Hmmm.




I hope you take her up on it, if only for a road trip, and :pm: me if you do.  A very good friend of mine, who turned me on to everything from LSD, Watts, Huxley, and Ram Dass (and incidentally was the one who met Stan Tenen of the Meru Foundation in Boston for tea) lives there, and I'd be glad to set you up to meet him.  It's a very granola-nut, vegan-friendly small city with a stellar live music & arts scene that feels quite akin to Portland without all of the :poop: of a big city.  I saw Phish play there in a venue the size of a high school gymnasium :lol:  I love it.  Who knows? It could be exactly the change of pace from Miami that you're looking for.  One thing I feel fairly confident of is that if you can't find anyone interesting to talk to there, you're just not trying hard enough.




Thanks CJ, I'm getting the message that the people would be a lot nicer and on the same page with me than the population I'm enveloped in down here. I have known one teacher who lived there for awhile, but complained of the wetness descending from the mountains, much like I've heard from those who have moved here from the Pacific Northwest. We're talking about visiting Asheville, but in the winter. I'm sure it would be lovely in the summer.

I don't know about not trying hard enough to meet people. I talk to anyone. Perhaps I've been in this milieu so long I can't even imagine living in a Mark-friendly environment any more. It's like the Third World here, but if I was actually living in the real Third World, I might be regarded as being there to help. Here, in my own country, I have long ben regarded as a white American, a non-Hispanic, a non-Haitian, and it now I am increasingly an old white guy, or an old hippy, which is true, but I am being increasingly regarded as an 'alien other' by a city of aliens! :lol: I want to wave my freak flag high, literally, like putting up a flag pole with a peace-sign American flag and/or a Grateful Dead flag. It's like any other minority who feels prejudice, exaggerating their self-perceived cultural differences, and getting 'in-your-face' with them, while also intensifying the resultant isolation.

I have never had a stronger identity than the one Ken Kesey pointed out (although I've tried) about 'those who have had the psychedelic experience and those who have not.' The corollary however, is that he further intended to mean people who have been more-or-less changed by the experience (because I know people who dismissed, buried, or marginalized such experiences). I am white, Jewish by birth, Catholic by baptism, Protestant by way of a seminary education, middle class by way of family-influenced values, and a Ph.D., to name a few. I have never identified myself strongly with any of these things, but Rose points out that the rest of the world cubby-holes me by these things, and she is correct. I can talk and write very pedantically, but I don't talk to the man-on-the-street like a professor. Nevertheless, Rose says that my normal speech reveals a well-educated, middle-class white  American. I invited my pool repairman to a party years ago because he was a good guy, and he declined for himself and his wife because they were not college educated, for example. Nobody's 'fault' here, just trying to illustrate. Now, we don't even have enough friends to throw a party. :shrug: Sad but true. And speaking of sad, Rose has S.A.D. (Seasonal Affective Disorder), and the sunshine that she avoids exposure to, is important for her mood. We have to think about a radical change, but there are several major decisions involved. :um:


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Offlineblitzd
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18562351 - 07/15/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

LOL markos that was hilarious. You should seriously consider getting a sun lamp! Those do work! Why doesnt she like being in the sun if you dont mind me asking?

Coincidentally asheville is also where the Moog headquarters are and I plan to attend Moogfest next year!

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18564117 - 07/15/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

You don't have to spell out S.A.D. to a Portlander :lol:, we know all about that, and if you visited here in the winter she could go to Light, a bar here that has heliotherapy LED lights where the color and brightness of the walls correspond to the time of day, and have a Bloody Mary spiked with Vitamin D & B12 with your vegan brunch--- we find ways to cope here :biggrin:  Being retired, I think you have an edge on optimism, and you'll figure out a way to deal with these small setbacks.  But if you do find a place that has winters like Miami, a culture like Berkeley, and homes don't start a million bucks, then you let me know and I might just be following your trail.  :cheers:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: blitzd]
    #18564208 - 07/15/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

blitzd said:
Coincidentally asheville is also where the Moog headquarters are and I plan to attend Moogfest next year!




Moogfest is amazing, Squarepusher played there last year.

Did you see the sister festival of sorts they have there?  Mountain Oasis Electronic Music Summit? I know The Orb, BassNectar, Pretty Lights, NIN, Animal Collective are playing this year... looks pretty brilliant, may try to make it...

http://mountainoasisfestival.com


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Offlineblitzd
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Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 197
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18564552 - 07/15/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Yes :smile: I am not from the Asheville area but am a big fan of the Moog synthesizers. I own a Voyager and a couple moogerfoogers! They are truly SO much fun to play and sound so so phat. Especially on acid.

I checked out that festival and it seems legit. I really dig bassnectar and pretty lights!

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18564783 - 07/15/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
You don't have to spell out S.A.D. to a Portlander :lol:, we know all about that, and if you visited here in the winter she could go to Light, a bar here that has heliotherapy LED lights where the color and brightness of the walls correspond to the time of day, and have a Bloody Mary spiked with Vitamin D & B12 with your vegan brunch--- we find ways to cope here :biggrin:  Being retired, I think you have an edge on optimism, and you'll figure out a way to deal with these small setbacks.  But if you do find a place that has winters like Miami, a culture like Berkeley, and homes don't start a million bucks, then you let me know and I might just be following your trail.  :cheers:




Sorry :blush:, I also speak of the SAD diet (Standard American Diet for those who don't know). HEY, I read your response to Rose, and she clapped and laughed out loud, and said you tell Cosmic Joke to come visit us! The guest room is yours! :cheers:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18567172 - 07/16/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sorry :blush:, I also speak of the SAD diet (Standard American Diet for those who don't know). HEY, I read your response to Rose, and she clapped and laughed out loud, and said you tell Cosmic Joke to come visit us! The guest room is yours! :cheers:




We can take a little rain, but every Portlander is a unique snowflake of food allergies, and the dietary acronym for SAD might just be liable to wipe out the whole lot of us here :lol:.  Actually being able to let somebody else choose a restaurant on a dinner date without having to worry about sustenance was a big motivator to leave the Mecca of Meat that is the Midwest.  I suspect Miami is significantly better in such regards.  I'll be sure to :pm: you when I'm ready to make a jaunt to Florida :smile:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18567884 - 07/16/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sorry :blush:, I also speak of the SAD diet (Standard American Diet for those who don't know). HEY, I read your response to Rose, and she clapped and laughed out loud, and said you tell Cosmic Joke to come visit us! The guest room is yours! :cheers:




We can take a little rain, but every Portlander is a unique snowflake of food allergies, and the dietary acronym for SAD might just be liable to wipe out the whole lot of us here :lol:.  Actually being able to let somebody else choose a restaurant on a dinner date without having to worry about sustenance was a big motivator to leave the Mecca of Meat that is the Midwest.  I suspect Miami is significantly better in such regards.  I'll be sure to :pm: you when I'm ready to make a jaunt to Florida :smile:




Rose is vegetarian, but vacillates between fats or carbs, cheese and nuts or breads and grains. We have both given up cooking oils, and I'm straight up 100% oil-free vegan. It's very clean eating, and very quickly eliminated without fats to slow digestion. (I saw two of my childhood friends' younger sisters, both named Maryanne, die of colo-rectal cancer in the last two years, and some of my pears are getting polyps in their colons. I believe meat-eating is in large measure responsible due to the carcinogenic putrefaction byproducts). The difficulty is eating anywhere but home. I haven't eaten at a restaurant or someone's home for over a year. Having just one current friend nearby, eating at other's homes hasn't been the problem. Rose is too logical to even want to eat at restaurants. You really don't know what you're getting, and it only ends up in the toilet is her response. Lucky me, she's learned to cook! :grin: I need to have an NMR lipid profile blood test soon, to see if I have improved my triglyceride, LDL, and other measures sufficiently to remain on this diet. I have had a few squares of dark chocolate, and I have eaten a couple of dozen eggs during the last 6 months, but no meat, fish, fowl, cheese, nuts, seeds or oil. Never was ruled by my belly, and as I mature, I'm ruled by fewer and fewer organs. :lol:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18571355 - 07/17/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Now that you've mentioned what you don't eat, I'm somewhat curious what you do.  My breakfast today had plenty of fat - almonds, walnuts, pecans, almond 'yogurt' (no dairy), raisins, cranberries, oats, & honey.  My lunch will too - cashew cheese, basil pesto, & avocados - with tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, wrapped in collard leaves. Giving up dairy is no problem, already done, but eggs and honey seem to hold me back going fully vegan.  Also cooking oils are definitely a staple, I eat a lot of spicy Thai stir fries w/ eggs & tofu, and other oily foods like pestos, baba, & hummus are always finding their way into my diet.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Edited by CosmicJoke (07/17/13 02:10 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18571695 - 07/17/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Now that you've mentioned what you don't eat, I'm somewhat curious what you do.  My breakfast today had plenty of fat - almonds, walnuts, pecans, almond 'yogurt' (no dairy), raisins, cranberries, oats, & honey.  My lunch will too - cashew cheese, basil pesto, & avocados - with tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, wrapped in collard leaves. Giving up dairy is no problem, already done, but eggs and honey seem to hold me back going fully vegan.  Also cooking oils are definitely a staple, I eat a lot of spicy Thai stir fries w/ eggs & tofu, and other oily foods like pestos, baba, & hummus are always find their way into my diet.




Rose makes a wonderful chick pea hummus that I eat with our home-baked bread. Whatever kind of cake we bake, cocoa (chocolate, no frosting) to banana-raisin-blueberry-cherry, etc., uses applesauce instead of oil. If we wok-fry vegetables, onions and tomatoes have their own oils. We use vegetable broth instead of oil. We bake every other day: rye bread w/caraway seeds, oat-wheat, wheat, corn bread. Our lasagna uses cannallini beans for protein instead of meat or cheese. It's much lighter of course.

In the Caldwell Eselstyne, MD paradigm, avocados are probably the only excluded fruit. But too much fruit seriously taxes the pancreas. Fructose is harder on the liver than alcohol! Steve Jobs went fruitarian for a while, and may have inadvertently planted the seeds of his own demise. I eat an Olympia® Pea Protein shake with 8 oz. almond milk, a banana, and usually a few strawberries for breakfast, with which I take my morning supplements. Also, one cup of freshly ground coffee. When I was working, I'd eat an apple at about 10:00 a.m., At 12-1:00 p.m. I'd have one of my vege-burgers, eggplant-lentil-oat, or black bean-quinoa, or some other type, on Ezekiel bread, with trimmings like pickles, tomato, organic ketchup, mustard, vegan mayo from tofu, and a side dish, like our vegan mac-n-cheese which is very, well, cheesy, only it is yellow and viscous from yeast :crazy2: and in my newly programmed mind, it IS mac-n-cheese. Or, some lasagna, or some kind of roll-up, or mac-n-bean dish spiced in different ways. Beano® and the generic forms are still necessary for me, but not as much as before. The diet requires time. On Sundays, we'll make bread dough for the week, and my burgers. Takes a few hours, but we make a number of things for the week, and with practice, a block of tofu can be made into a number of products in a blender in very little time. I miss pizza more than anything. I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on my birthday, and it wasn't all that after a year's moratorium on peanut butter (fat).

Dinner often begins with a salad, with beans and some grain like quinoa or macaroni, and a favorite oil-free savory salad dressing like maple-mustard, or a pepper-ranch. I think certain blood types (I'm B-) might do better on this diet than others (although that is a whole other paradigm). I lost 12 lbs. around my middle. The only food I've actually dreamed about was scrambled eggs, so I have given myself a couple on occasion.
In the following recipe, I prefer shells over elbows. The picture doesn't do it justice: http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2007/10/easy-macaroni-and-cheeze.html


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18571835 - 07/17/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I'm still very much a bachelor and cooking and cleaning aren't my favorite activities.  A lot of the meals I prepare at home involve whole foods that are quick and clean to prepare.  But maybe I'll get adventurous and make your vegan mac n' cheese sometime, that's something I haven't had in ages and I know just what you mean.  I usually stay away from meat substitutes, but coming home I always walk about some food carts and there's a place that sells a veggie BLT.  I haven't had bacon for 15 years and the veggie bacon there may as well be bacon for all I can tell.

I do eat a vegan pizza that I think holds its own with any pizza I've ever had - cornmeal crust, cashew cheese, caramelized onions, fresh sweet corn, smoked tomatoes, and chives.  I guess you wouldn't eat the cashew cheese, but maybe you could think your way around it. 



--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18571942 - 07/17/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Well, I'm still very much a bachelor and cooking and cleaning aren't my favorite activities.  A lot of the meals I prepare at home involve whole foods that are quick and clean to prepare.  But maybe I'll get adventurous and make your vegan mac n' cheese sometime, that's something I haven't had in ages and I know just what you mean.  I usually stay away from meat substitutes, but coming home I always walk about some food carts and there's a place that sells a veggie BLT.  I haven't had bacon 15 years and the veggie bacon there may as well be bacon for all I can tell.

I do eat a vegan pizza that I think holds its own with any pizza I've ever had - cornmeal crust, cashew cheese, caramelized onions, fresh sweet corn, smoked tomatoes, and chives.  I guess you wouldn't eat the cashew cheese, but maybe you could think your way around it. 






DAMN that looks tasty! I've never heard of cashew cheese, but it's going to have too high a fat content for my purposes. I checked with my insurance company today, and I'm gonna make an appointment for Quest Diagnostics tomorrow for an NMR blood profile, to see how I'm doing since last December's lipid workup. My parents were two of the unhealthiest people I ever met. I spent my whole childhood visiting my folks in the hospital. My dad rather enjoyed the attention in an infantile way. Both parents were heavy smokers, and I must have been born nicotine-addicted. Yet my father, who boasted of 15 major surgeries in 18 years, and who had many before I was born, still lived to 86. My mother had a series of heart attacks and strokes lived to 72. But my father's Uncle Herman who used to live in Lauderhill, FL, took himself to the airport with just a cane and a limo when he was 103. Had his daughter not moved him to Michigan, he might have lived longer than his 106 years. I don't know if I can effect longevity, but I can do something about quality of life by getting off the SAD diet. My oldest friend swears that the casein in milk and cheese is carcinogenic, so he has been off dairy for years. We're both cancer phobic. I've had melanoma and basal cell carcinomas of the skin, and his sister recently died of colo-rectal cancer. I'd prefer a nice quick vascular incident myself, given a choice.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18572016 - 07/17/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Im a fan of durums and pizzas too

Got a 5min recipe for full size durums:
Microwave falaffels in microwave for 4mins (buy frozen falaffels from where you usually shop)
Durum bread
Spinace leaves  (then you dont have to cut them and they last a few week refridgerated, salad doesnt)
Tomato slices
Red pebber slices
Hot salsa
Artischoke pesto

Only thing needed is potato knife, toaster, microwave oven or normal oven
I like lazy meals

Its better than durums i used to order, better taste
And takes 5mins

2falaffels in bottom  salsa on top spinace red pebber artischoke pesto tomato falaffel salsa ( mais ) or such :wink:
always squeeze falaffels flat when putting them in
Then wrap and roll

Its vegetarian, but tastes better than with meat IMO
No need for regular salad in it or cucumber,hardly any taste difference
Can be added and mais too if you want
Or substitute the red pebber with mais without much taste difference

You can grow the tomato and spinace in your garden  (spinace grows very easily, you will have more than you need easily)
Only need 1 tomato for 2-3 durums  and small handful spinace for each
:wink:

Edited by lessismore (07/17/13 04:35 PM)

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Invisibleswimmingfast

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,013
Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #18572148 - 07/17/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

There may be no "struggle"
only more cooking recipes!

God's Semen Sticks
Pan fry (thin-cut sweet potatoes or regular potatoes).
The way I cut them is: thin disc shapes and then cut the "disc's" into quarters -- they'll sorta look like triangles.

olive oil
diced red onion
minced garlic
diced habanero pepper
parsley
salt

optional condiments:

shredded mozzarella cheese
ketchup
mayonnaise

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: swimmingfast]
    #18572608 - 07/17/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:

DAMN that looks tasty! I've never heard of cashew cheese, but it's going to have too high a fat content for my purposes. I checked with my insurance company today, and I'm gonna make an appointment for Quest Diagnostics tomorrow for an NMR blood profile, to see how I'm doing since last December's lipid workup. My parents were two of the unhealthiest people I ever met. I spent my whole childhood visiting my folks in the hospital. My dad rather enjoyed the attention in an infantile way. Both parents were heavy smokers, and I must have been born nicotine-addicted. Yet my father, who boasted of 15 major surgeries in 18 years, and who had many before I was born, still lived to 86. My mother had a series of heart attacks and strokes lived to 72. But my father's Uncle Herman who used to live in Lauderhill, FL, took himself to the airport with just a cane and a limo when he was 103. Had his daughter not moved him to Michigan, he might have lived longer than his 106 years. I don't know if I can effect longevity, but I can do something about quality of life by getting off the SAD diet. My oldest friend swears that the casein in milk and cheese is carcinogenic, so he has been off dairy for years. We're both cancer phobic. I've had melanoma and basal cell carcinomas of the skin, and his sister recently died of colo-rectal cancer. I'd prefer a nice quick vascular incident myself, given a choice.




Cashew cheese is really not so different than hummus, but with cashews as opposed to garbanzo beans.  You could substitute hummus in the vegan pizza recipe, or really anything else you find suitable.  You just have to get creative with a food processor.  The goal here is a thick paste that you like to go on this crust.  A lot of places here will do vegan pizzas with marinara (the corn cashew pizza has no marinara) and no cheese substitute of any sort, but always seem to make up for it by loading them with green olives and artichoke hearts to make them appetizing, some oil is almost always inescapable.

My mother is vegetarian, but I'm not so sure her diet is healthy - it's fully a moral thing to her.  I saw a lot of Iceberg lettuce, fattening dressings (Midwesterners sure do seem to like their ranch dressing), and lots of prepackaged frozen veggie burgers and blue tortilla chips in her kitchen when I went home a month ago. Just a lot of transitional foods one may start eating when they become vegetarian, but that ideally one would grow out of --- a lot of hippy junk food.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Edited by CosmicJoke (07/17/13 06:54 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18574120 - 07/17/13 11:57 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

According to Dr. Eselstyne, some people react biochemically, that is, inflammation of the arteries that results in laying down 'protective' plaques in the arteries to cover the inflammation (and causing decreased blood flow, heart attacks and strokes), just from spray oil on their cookware! Then we simply say, "oh, these are normal with age," when they may well be abnormal. A very long time ago, hunter-gatherers may have eaten olives, for example, off the trees for food. But they didn't express the oil of thousands of those olives and consume it. Even three thousand years ago is brief compared to human history going back tens of thousands of years. Just because something tastes good doesn't mean we should consume it in quantities (like sugar). I've heard that the Death Angel mushroom is tasty, until it melts down your liver in three days and you die in slow agony. Sugar, oil, and refined carbohydrates cause all manner of insult to our systems, but slowly for the most part. I do miss blue corn chips too, but the oil is inescapable. Veggie burgers have oil and a shit-load of salt. It's not like I'm pining away for food, I'm not. We drank red wine and ate rye and banana breads tonight. I'm good. :smile:


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18574869 - 07/18/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Cant eat oil as I got gaut, but the recipe I posted is one of the few vegetarian meals without oil :wink: (very small amount in the pesto)

Cant walk or feel feet/hands if I eat oil, so try to limit it
But else olive oil is usually healthy if moderated, its high in calories after all

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore]
    #18575636 - 07/18/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Cant eat oil as I got gaut, but the recipe I posted is one of the few vegetarian meals without oil :wink: (very small amount in the pesto)

Cant walk or feel feet/hands if I eat oil, so try to limit it
But else olive oil is usually healthy if moderated, its high in calories after all




Wow! That is severe. Are you taking Allopuranol to lower the uric acid? I was using Celery Seed Extract to lower the uric acid from my use of diuretic in blood pressure meds. Thanks for the recipe suggestion!


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Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: struggling with spirituality [Re: lessismore]
    #18576049 - 07/18/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Cant eat oil as I got gaut, but the recipe I posted is one of the few vegetarian meals without oil :wink: (very small amount in the pesto)




I really don't think so, about the low oil in pesto, same with things like baba ganoush or hummus - every week i pick up some of that from a lebanese restaurant down the street and pesto from 'pesto outside the box' at our farmer's market.  It's all delicious, but it's most certainly not low in oil - there's 27g of fat per serving in pesto I have :shrug: That's anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3rd of the fat you should you have in your entire day, in just a little bit of goo...


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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