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OfflineBearr
Stranger
Registered: 02/07/13
Posts: 74
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: To those who faint... [Re: AIRDOG]
    #17805939 - 02/15/13 08:41 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I've come really close to passing out several times. I get the same feeling, sense of oh fuck somethings about to happen. I attribute it to a low blood pressure but I don't know. Are you eating enough? Drinking enough water? Making sure your body has enough energy for the trip? Sodium is also important to maintain blood pressure.

Mushrooms will lower your blood pressure so if it is on the low end this could be the cause. Stacked on top of a sodium deficiency or dehydration, your pressure could be low enough that the effects you described could definitely happen. If your blood pressure gets low, your brain shuts the body down and can also kick up adrenaline to get your blood pumping faster. It could be why you feel this sense of doom and then black out.

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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: Bearr]
    #17806526 - 02/15/13 11:26 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bromo-DragonFLY




Do you have a reference to any papers talking about the vacoconstruction problem? You mean 2-CB, don't you?


--------------------
Stand up. You're not alone.

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OfflineSeenSoFar
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #17808191 - 02/15/13 03:57 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:

Bromo-DragonFLY




Do you have a reference to any papers talking about the vacoconstruction problem? You mean 2-CB, don't you?




No, I mean Bromo-DragonFLY. You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY

If you check out the wikipedia article on vasoconstriction here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasoconstriction

You will see under the heading "Exogenous medications" that psilocybin is listed as a known vasoconstrictor. Also if you read this link from google books here:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=y-O1mo6Lg2wC&pg=PA447&lpg=PA447&dq=psilocybin+vasoconstriction&source=bl&ots=Rw-dl2Xm_s&sig=opnQyBpn4I2NTpyrrPhzsd_B0j0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YbweUdy9K8mSiAKN9oCYDw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=psilocybin%20vasoconstriction&f=false

You will see that 5-HT1 agonists are shown to cause vasoconstriction, and psilocybin is known to bind to 5-HT1 receptors, therefor it would also cause vasoconstriction. This is why it is useful for the treatment of migraines, as compounds that cause vasoconstriction to the blood vessels of the brain are useful in treating migraines.

Furthermore, a quote from the wikipedia article on Psilocybin is as follows (emphasis added):

Quote:

Psilocybin is rapidly dephosphorylated in the body to psilocin, which is a partial agonist for several serotonergic receptors. Psilocin has a high affinity for the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor in the brain, where it mimics the effects of serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, or 5-HT). Psilocin binds less tightly to other serotonergic receptors 5-HT1A, 5-HT1D, and 5-HT2C.




And a quote from the article on the 5-HT1D receptor is as follows (emphasis added):

Quote:

5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin) receptor 1D, also known as HTR1D, is a 5-HT receptor, but also denotes the human gene encoding it.[1] 5-HT1D acts on the central nervous system, and affects locomotion and anxiety. It also induces vascular vasoconstriction in the brain.




--------------------
I was an atheist before I tried DMT, and I was an atheist after I tried DMT. For about 5 minutes in between, I was convinced that I was a shower curtain.:deemsters:

Bug powder dust an' mugwump jism
The wild boys runnin' 'round Interzone trippin'
Led into control about the Big Brother
Tryin' like hard to not blow my cover

    -Bomb the Bass Bug Powder Dust (Kruder and Dorfmeister K&D Sessions Remix)

Edited by SeenSoFar (02/15/13 04:04 PM)

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InvisibleOnePerEyeM8
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Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1,718
Loc: Westeros
Re: To those who faint... [Re: StoryTeller]
    #17808417 - 02/15/13 04:34 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StoryTeller said:
To those who faint on mushrooms: Has there ever been anything that you've taken to decrease the chances of fainting?

There's a feeling I get when I'm about to pass out that I call the "feeling of doom." Suddenly, out of nowhere, it's like someone hits a switch in my brain that says "you're now going to lose control of all bodily functions and pass out." This always happens on a dose of a cut or higher.

I want to solve this problem for myself, and help others who have this problem as well. I'm down for using myself as a guinea pig if anyone has any safe theories that I could try out :tongue2:




Have you ever tried making mushroom tea? If not, then try doing that, and strain it really well. If you faint then at least you'll know it's probably the psilocybin/cin itself rather than something else in the mushroom.

Definitely the first test I'd conduct.

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Offlinedivvy123
STRANGER DANGER


Registered: 06/24/12
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: OnePerEyeM8]
    #17809743 - 02/15/13 08:01 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OnePerEyeM8 said:
Quote:

StoryTeller said:
To those who faint on mushrooms: Has there ever been anything that you've taken to decrease the chances of fainting?

There's a feeling I get when I'm about to pass out that I call the "feeling of doom." Suddenly, out of nowhere, it's like someone hits a switch in my brain that says "you're now going to lose control of all bodily functions and pass out." This always happens on a dose of a cut or higher.

I want to solve this problem for myself, and help others who have this problem as well. I'm down for using myself as a guinea pig if anyone has any safe theories that I could try out :tongue2:




Have you ever tried making mushroom tea? If not, then try doing that, and strain it really well. If you faint then at least you'll know it's probably the psilocybin/cin itself rather than something else in the mushroom.

Definitely the first test I'd conduct.



I agree.
But, I have passed out a few times from not being hydrated. If I don't drink anything throughout my trip I will get dizzy and lose consciousness.


--------------------
Amanita 'nother liver. :lol:

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OfflineStoryTeller
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: To those who faint... [Re: divvy123]
    #17810836 - 02/15/13 11:19 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Actually those who are saying dehydration/malnutrition could be correct... I always fast before mushrooms trips and then once I'm up and my stomach is queasy I don't think about putting anything else in.

And I'll have to see if tea does it to me as well.

Thanks for the input everyone!


--------------------
I am a fictional character written anonymously for the sake of entertainment.

All I know is something like a bird within her sang...

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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: StoryTeller]
    #17811691 - 02/16/13 04:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


wikipedia says:
Laboratory testing has confirmed that in October 2009, a batch of Bromo-Dragonfly was distributed, mislabeled as the related compound 2C-B-FLY, which is around 20x less potent than BDF by weight. This mistake is believed to have contributed to several lethal overdoses and additional hospitalizations. The batch implicated in these deaths also contained significant synthesis impurities, which may have contributed to the toxicity.




That's probably why I made the connection to 2C-B. They are also very similiar compounds.

The first one is Bromo-DragonFLY, the second 2C-B-FLY and the third 2C-B.

So you are saying that at a certain dosage threshold of psilocin certain areas of the brain do not get enought blood anymore causing people to black out? Could this also explain the paralysis associated with some woodlovers? You don't think it's dangerous (as in potentially damaging certain areas of the brain irreversibly), do you?


--------------------
Stand up. You're not alone.

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OfflineSeenSoFar
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 160
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Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: To those who faint... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #17811744 - 02/16/13 04:57 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:


wikipedia says:
Laboratory testing has confirmed that in October 2009, a batch of Bromo-Dragonfly was distributed, mislabeled as the related compound 2C-B-FLY, which is around 20x less potent than BDF by weight. This mistake is believed to have contributed to several lethal overdoses and additional hospitalizations. The batch implicated in these deaths also contained significant synthesis impurities, which may have contributed to the toxicity.




That's probably why I made the connection to 2C-B. They are also very similiar compounds.

The first one is Bromo-DragonFLY, the second 2C-B-FLY and the third 2C-B.

So you are saying that at a certain dosage threshold of psilocin certain areas of the brain do not get enought blood anymore causing people to black out? Could this also explain the paralysis associated with some woodlovers? You don't think it's dangerous (as in potentially damaging certain areas of the brain irreversibly), do you?




It's more a matter of individual reactions than any sort of symptom that is repeatable in a large population. Most people can (and some do) take massive doses of psilocybin and suffer no such side-effects. Psilocybin is one of the safest recreational substances in terms of danger of physical damage, a person would have to consume an unreasonable quantity of dried mushrooms to reach anything close to a lethal dose. It just that certain people seem to be much more sensitive to vasoconstriction from any serotonergic psychedelic (not just psilocybin/psilocin) than others. I personally have never experienced any sort of vasoconstriction, and neither has just about every person I have discussed it with, but I know a person who will get numbness in their extremities every time they take any sort of serotonergic psychedelic, and will sometimes complain of faintness and tunnel vision during and after a trip.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that affected individuals are suffering or may suffer brain damage, I think the symptoms would be much more severe than that. From everything I know the oxygen deprivation has to be severe and protracted to cause brain damage, and I believe that a person would be suffering symptoms of an ischemic stroke if they were to get to a point where brain damage could occur. I do however think that if a person were to suffer faintness or loss of consciousness from something like psilocybin, it might be wise for them to avoid any substance that is known for severe vasoconstriction, as if an unaffected individual was to, say, suffer consistent numbness in their extremities from a particular substance, an individual who is predisposed to excessive vasoconstriction may suffer an ischemic stroke or gangrene in their extremities from the same substance. So I would say it's probably a blessing if they discovered such a sensitivity from an incident as minor as a brief loss of consciousness rather than one that may result in a permanent or semi-permanent disability.


--------------------
I was an atheist before I tried DMT, and I was an atheist after I tried DMT. For about 5 minutes in between, I was convinced that I was a shower curtain.:deemsters:

Bug powder dust an' mugwump jism
The wild boys runnin' 'round Interzone trippin'
Led into control about the Big Brother
Tryin' like hard to not blow my cover

    -Bomb the Bass Bug Powder Dust (Kruder and Dorfmeister K&D Sessions Remix)

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OfflineStoryTeller
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Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 625
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: SeenSoFar]
    #17816351 - 02/16/13 11:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SeenSoFar said:
I wouldn't go as far as saying that affected individuals are suffering or may suffer brain damage, I think the symptoms would be much more severe than that. From everything I know the oxygen deprivation has to be severe and protracted to cause brain damage, and I believe that a person would be suffering symptoms of an ischemic stroke if they were to get to a point where brain damage could occur. I do however think that if a person were to suffer faintness or loss of consciousness from something like psilocybin, it might be wise for them to avoid any substance that is known for severe vasoconstriction, as if an unaffected individual was to, say, suffer consistent numbness in their extremities from a particular substance, an individual who is predisposed to excessive vasoconstriction may suffer an ischemic stroke or gangrene in their extremities from the same substance. So I would say it's probably a blessing if they discovered such a sensitivity from an incident as minor as a brief loss of consciousness rather than one that may result in a permanent or semi-permanent disability.





:thumbup: Good advice. If I'm still fainting after taking mushrooms with healthy nutrient/water levels, I'll try a vasodialator with them. If that doesn't work I guess I'll just have to find something else to work with or just stop eating psychs for a while.


--------------------
I am a fictional character written anonymously for the sake of entertainment.

All I know is something like a bird within her sang...

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OfflineSeenSoFar
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Registered: 12/30/12
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: StoryTeller]
    #17816453 - 02/17/13 12:24 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Please post back as to what happens if you take a vasodilator and if it solves the problem or changes the symptoms. If not, I will dig deeper.


--------------------
I was an atheist before I tried DMT, and I was an atheist after I tried DMT. For about 5 minutes in between, I was convinced that I was a shower curtain.:deemsters:

Bug powder dust an' mugwump jism
The wild boys runnin' 'round Interzone trippin'
Led into control about the Big Brother
Tryin' like hard to not blow my cover

    -Bomb the Bass Bug Powder Dust (Kruder and Dorfmeister K&D Sessions Remix)

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OfflineSteelPanther


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 3,453
Loc: The Energy
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: To those who faint... [Re: SeenSoFar]
    #17816735 - 02/17/13 12:39 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

It sounds like vaso-constriction, and weed is a pretty potent vaso-dialator. I always smoke a little weed to combat vaso-constriction .


--------------------
Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.

Edited by SteelPanther (02/17/13 12:43 AM)

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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: To those who faint... [Re: AIRDOG]
    #17817519 - 02/17/13 07:34 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AIRDOG said:
blood pressure drops



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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Posts: 3,071
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: birdland]
    #17817691 - 02/17/13 08:50 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for your input, SeenSoFar.


--------------------
Stand up. You're not alone.

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OfflineSeenSoFar
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Registered: 12/30/12
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #17819623 - 02/17/13 02:25 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Thanks for your input, SeenSoFar.




Not a problem, I love to help! I have studied the pharmacology of psychedelics quite a bit, and I'm always happy to share what I've learned and hypothesize about any questions someone may have.


--------------------
I was an atheist before I tried DMT, and I was an atheist after I tried DMT. For about 5 minutes in between, I was convinced that I was a shower curtain.:deemsters:

Bug powder dust an' mugwump jism
The wild boys runnin' 'round Interzone trippin'
Led into control about the Big Brother
Tryin' like hard to not blow my cover

    -Bomb the Bass Bug Powder Dust (Kruder and Dorfmeister K&D Sessions Remix)

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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: SeenSoFar]
    #17820992 - 02/17/13 07:01 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Ginkgo biloba is a vasodilator that shouldn't interact with the trip like alcohol and cannabis do.

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OfflineStoryTeller
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #17822503 - 02/17/13 11:57 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I was actually looking into getting some Ginkgo recently. I'm definitely going to get a couple ounces before the next trip and see what that does


--------------------
I am a fictional character written anonymously for the sake of entertainment.

All I know is something like a bird within her sang...

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Offlinederrumbe
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Registered: 02/17/13
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: Bearr]
    #17823499 - 02/18/13 07:03 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I posted yesterday on adverse effects on mushrooms what really often happens to me.I am sure my fainting is connected with eating, because everytime I 'm on the end of my trip and feeling hungry I eat (a biscuit,a piece of bread)and in ten minutes my head start to overheat,my ears to whistle and I faint.I did avoided to eat for years ,but last time I took mushrooms I was starving and it all went on again,and worst.
I always take mushrooms with empty stomach(and during the day I do a light meal 4-5 hours before),no alcool ,and i usually make a tea,wich make it more easier to digest and it rise faster ,and I keep hydrated.It's not the type of mush, because I had the very same problem with different species.
Helped me a lot being always careful to the set and settings...I don't do mushrooms on party or raves, it's not a party or recreational drug for me, so fortunately everytime I went down there was somebody to help me and I wasn't in a random or dangerous place...

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OfflineStoryTeller
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: derrumbe]
    #17824732 - 02/18/13 01:23 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Have you ever taken any other psychedelics? If so did they give you the same effects?


--------------------
I am a fictional character written anonymously for the sake of entertainment.

All I know is something like a bird within her sang...

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Offlinederrumbe
Stranger

Registered: 02/17/13
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: To those who faint... [Re: StoryTeller]
    #17825467 - 02/18/13 03:51 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I'm a psychedelic lover so  I do LSD ,DMT, 5MEO dmt,changa ,salvia....and never had this kind of reaction.And I did a lot of these stuffs,but the fainting is always and only related to mushrooms .If I just take them with empty stomach it's ok as soon as i eat, something happens.I've experienced bad stomach and belly pain on trips,and it's bad but i can manage it,but nothing like this.I thought it might be related to levure or processed food,but couldn't verify.Last time I was so fucking scared I thought I would have died ...like I could monitorate the experience from my brain but I wasn't sure I was going  to be able to go back to control my body.It lasted more than the other times,like 20 minutes .When I came back to some kind of normal state there was a big black spider just 30 cm upon my head on the wall.I looked at that as a sign ,a symbolism.But wathever,I'm just in this way....
I think I 'll never eat anything again on a trip, even if it seems it's ended, i will wait 'till the next day.

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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: To those who faint... [Re: derrumbe]
    #17830580 - 02/19/13 02:13 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I know exactly what you're talking about. It could be a number of things. Does your fainting happening right after smoking weed? Shrooms and weed affect blood pressure. Too low and you'll start fainting. On higher doses you're bound to have one hell of a trip when it happens. Been there. Just let go. You'll wake up immediately as your body re-regulates the pressure changes. Just remember to:

eat before tripping (strong meal, but after that fast for 6-3 hours depending on your system)

keep hydrated while tripping.

Don't smoke massive amounts of weed during your trips.

Lower the dose of shrooms if you feel that your problem is anxiety related.


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

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