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 wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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 Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? 
#17795208 - 02/13/13 12:55 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Has anyone bought and fruited a Master slant from him?
Was its performance enough to justify the price?
I've bought plug spawn from Sporeworks and Stamets and they both performed equally well. Honestly, Sporeworks' plug spawn looks much healthier in the mycobag- much more brilliant white and actually had a mycelium body forming. However, I think this was due to the grain that was in there with the dowels.
I realize Stamets is a non-sponsor, but I believe I've been told it was ok to discuss him on this forum. But, it could have been somewhere else as it has been a while. Not trying to advertise for him, but if this is unacceptable feel free to delete/block.
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 Versicolor
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Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17795408 - 02/13/13 01:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would recommend Aloha Medicinals for expensive cultures.
I'm sure the stamets cultures are good too though.
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon 
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Versicolor]
#17795493 - 02/13/13 01:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah they're way too expensive for me! Sporeworks & out-grow for me.
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Versicolor
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17795512 - 02/13/13 02:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that unless you are going commercial, there is no point in an expensive culture. Sponsors such as Spore Depot and Sporeworks have cheap cultures that work well.
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TheApprentice
back at it
Registered: 09/25/11
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17795798 - 02/13/13 03:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Yeah they're way too expensive for me! Sporeworks & out-grow for me.
I hear ya. I have been searching all over for a pink oyster, and went to fungii perfecti...
I applaud the man for his work, but wtf.
and i see some farms on youtube that pay for his spawn. and they still turn a sizeable profit.
which is why i'm not a mushroom farmer
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: TheApprentice]
#17795952 - 02/13/13 03:29 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, my goal is going commercial. It will be small at first. About a 15Lx8Wx8H room to start.Does this change anything as far as recommendations go?
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17796321 - 02/13/13 04:25 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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why not make your own?
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: TheApprentice]
#17796617 - 02/13/13 05:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheApprentice said:
Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Yeah they're way too expensive for me! Sporeworks & out-grow for me.
I hear ya. I have been searching all over for a pink oyster, and went to fungii perfecti...
I applaud the man for his work, but wtf.
and i see some farms on youtube that pay for his spawn. and they still turn a sizeable profit.
which is why i'm not a mushroom farmer
www.out-grow.com. ; they have pinks. I think they have 50 species of fungal cultures
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Quote:
psylosymonreturns said:
why not make your own?
I do intend on it. But, until I can come up with the money for a trip to Washington or wherever I need to go pertaining to what I'm looking for, I would rather start with a proven line of genetics developed by a proven professional.
And, with all the effort I'm putting into this grow room, I wouldn't mind paying a little extra... If I get something for the "extra".
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17796976 - 02/13/13 06:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Regarding Aloha... Do they offer a King Oyster culture? If so, what is the two letter name they use to ID it?
Thanks.
EDIT: "EL", perhaps? E for eryngii?
Edited by wally_world (02/13/13 06:23 PM)
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Versicolor
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17797258 - 02/13/13 07:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Take a look at their list.
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Humbled
Local Budtender
Registered: 01/19/08
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Versicolor]
#17798837 - 02/14/13 12:56 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have no experience with Aloha or Stamets but I would speculate that a high performing strain increases yields significantly when used on a large scale such as a commercial grow op.
Even slight increases that a home grower would regard as normal or negligible become exponential for a big commercial grower.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 262
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Humbled]
#17798991 - 02/14/13 01:59 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have a FP oyster slant. I have had bad luck with my oyster spawn and have not gotten it to fruit yet unfortunately. I would be willing to send anyone a agar wedge of it if they want to send me a print or culture back of a species I do not have (which shouldn't be hard I don't have many). Just throwing that out there.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17799008 - 02/14/13 02:05 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh also you are legally restricted from selling any mushrooms grown from Stamets cultures. Perhaps he has some commercial friendly strains for sell but I think they are all 'patented'. Thats right folks, you can now own rights to DNA!
Edited by thenilsmeister (02/14/13 02:06 AM)
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johnny.fairplay
StrangerThanFishin
Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 454
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17799011 - 02/14/13 02:07 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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He has to take you to court. And I believe you sign a contract rather than a strain being patented.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: johnny.fairplay]
#17799024 - 02/14/13 02:14 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ya that makes more sense, but how he would go about proving it?
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johnny.fairplay
StrangerThanFishin
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17799037 - 02/14/13 02:19 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Exactly
Provided you are not taking his strain and mass selling spawn.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: johnny.fairplay]
#17799058 - 02/14/13 02:30 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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It does colonize spawn very fast. I have had G2G jars finish in two weeks, im not sure if thats normal for oyster though.
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forrest
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,011
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17799127 - 02/14/13 03:08 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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When i do g2g with kings they are colonised in less than a week, but with greys they tend to take two weeks
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JaComet
Old Hand
Registered: 11/12/02
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: forrest]
#17799323 - 02/14/13 04:46 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I got started in edibles with Paul's grow kits. Figured it would be pretty cost effective, guaranteed fruiting and plenty of flesh to pick and culture from.
Worked for me.
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd
Registered: 12/19/07
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17799666 - 02/14/13 07:50 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Quote:
TheApprentice said:
Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Yeah they're way too expensive for me! Sporeworks & out-grow for me.
I hear ya. I have been searching all over for a pink oyster, and went to fungii perfecti...
I applaud the man for his work, but wtf.
and i see some farms on youtube that pay for his spawn. and they still turn a sizeable profit.
which is why i'm not a mushroom farmer
www.out-grow.com. ; they have pinks. I think they have 50 species of fungal cultures
Out-Grow is the Shit. I do not buy edible cultures or supplies from anyone else. He is local too so I get packages in 2-3 days
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BigPharma
Myco-Rising
Registered: 07/22/11
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Brain Fart]
#17799865 - 02/14/13 08:49 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I looked at stamet's cultures for about five minutes then took my business elsewhere. they were seriously over-priced and offered few incentives to justify the expense. at most labs you get life-time warranties where they'll replace your culture, not stamets. most labs also provide expected growth parameters/yields for their mushrooms, but not stamets. Stamets doesn't even carry the same strains consistently, its just whatever they have that they currently like, and may not be the same later if you need to replace your culture.
I also don't much appreciate being sold a product and being told how I'm allowed to use it. If I buy it, its mine and I'll do with it what I please; fuck his caveats.
Stamets has started rubbing me the wrong way; he comes across as opportunistic and proprietary, and I don't quite respect that regardless of his contributions to the field.
In the end I ended up not buying any culture. I considered buying some King Oyster culture from Mycelia, but when I looked at their growth sheets I realized that I was already getting their projected max yield from my grocery store clone I got nearly for free.
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"There are no differences, but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference."
-William James on NO2 in 1882
Edited by BigPharma (02/14/13 08:50 AM)
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: BigPharma]
#17800212 - 02/14/13 10:19 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, it looks like I'm going with Aloha. They have a much better selection, are a bit cheaper, and will replace cultures.
They almost have TOO LARGE of a selection. I'm guessing it will serve me best to place a call when I order to describe my situation and get feedback as to which variation would be best for me.
Once I get everything going I will post back with results.
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17801404 - 02/14/13 02:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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bigpharma (evil name! Ha!)
I can't help but agree with everything you're saying.
Saying what can't be done with the cultures is a jerky move.
Its like if I sold my album and said it can't be played in the bathroom.
Its like, dude, you already ripped me off on the price, now this?? I still don't understand how agar wedges grown out are so fucking expensive.
I'll just stick with cheap culture syringes. Let the lab guys do the clean work and I can get a ready to use product immediately. Seriously. Hundreds of dollars for an oyster....um...no.
I'd rather grab one off a tree. Haha... mycelial tissue at cocaine prices!
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17810941 - 02/15/13 11:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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While I have your guys' attention, is there another board geared specifically toward edibles that would serve me better?
I posted a couple questions about the construction and setup of my grow room and got zero responses... Perhaps because lack of experience from the member base with larger scaled edible operations?
Fungiforum seems to be the only board I can find that isn't specifically for psychedelic mushrooms. Any other suggestions?
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forrest
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17811133 - 02/16/13 12:23 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.ediblemushroom.net/
these are dedicated to edibles, but still need to grow in quantity of active members i think, (wich you could help doing)
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: forrest]
#17811726 - 02/16/13 04:48 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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In "growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms" Stamets frequently emphasizes that you have to find the strain that best suits your conditions, not the other way around. So it might be that a certain strain is high yielding in his environment for his conditions, but not for you.
Before going commercial, I would either isolate my own cultures from spores and test them for the substrate and conditions I want to grow them in and then start there - or - first have a look at what substrates and environmental conditions are to be expected and then find a vendor that offers a suitable, well proven strain. In the second scenario I would want to pay for the quality of the strain, not the name attached to it.
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: forrest]
#17812051 - 02/16/13 08:13 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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ediblemushroom and fungiforum have some very good info for small scale producers, but no active user base ATM. There are plenty of "small scale" pros here and at mycotek.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Loc: Seattle
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: simplemachine] 1
#17812075 - 02/16/13 08:23 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anyone who makes you sign a statement before buying a culture that you won't tell ANYONE where you got the culture is selling bunk, period.
In 2009 after I built our mushroom farm, I ordered a Portabella culture and a week after it arrived it was totally green with trichoderma, yet had never been opened or removed from the bag the test tube was shipped in. I called to get a replacement and 'Jim' told me it must be because I'm inexperienced and screwed up the culture. There would be no guarantee, and the 'contract' says if I told anyone it arrived contaminated they'd sue me.
So here's the bottom line Paul: It arrived contaminated and your employees didn't make it right and wouldn't put you on the phone, so sue away. I don't play games with unscrupulous vendors any more. I thought I knew you better than that from our dealings in years past, but I was apparently mistaken. With full knowledge that Vivian is terminally ill with cancer, you took my $150 dollars and sent me crap with no guarantee and then demanded my silence. I could never in good conscience recommend anyone to order from you.
Aloha Medicinals has far superior and lower-age cultures(I love how you trademarked the term P-value  ) which are commercially viable and you'll get a replacement even years later if you lose it.
RR
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#17812079 - 02/16/13 08:27 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said:
Before going commercial, I would either isolate my own cultures from spores and test them for the substrate and conditions I want to grow them in and then start there - or - first have a look at what substrates and environmental conditions are to be expected and then find a vendor that offers a suitable, well proven strain. In the second scenario I would want to pay for the quality of the strain, not the name attached to it.
Isolating WILD cultures is the way to go if you don't want to buy one. In the wild, natural selection is already doing the hard work for you by screening out all but the best genetics for any given environment.
That being said, I still think Stamets prices and lack of support are outrageous. Aloha is a much better deal, and I'm sure the genes are just as tight.
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simplemachine
Manfly
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17812081 - 02/16/13 08:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
There would be no guarantee, and if I told anyone it arrived contaminated they'd sue me.
RR
Shocking. F*ck that guy.
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wem420
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 24
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17812483 - 02/16/13 10:26 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
With full knowledge that Vivian is terminally ill with cancer, you took my $150 dollars and sent me crap with no guarantee and then demanded my silence.
Hi, dont know if she still has cancer problems, but if so...
I know this is wrong place to do it, i know, im sorry.
Alas i must say i've met so many people that have cured their cancers by the concentrated cannabis oil, I must say if you havent checked out rick simpson etc. plz do!
I've went to the places, been with the patients, seen it all. Wish you and Vivian the best
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wem420]
#17812732 - 02/16/13 11:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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It seems Paul is all about the money. That's pretty sad.
I thought with all the world betterment stuff he's apways spouting, he was kind of a hero of mine.. time I re-assesed that idea. I'll hang with you guys any day! Where folks give a wedge away. Free!
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day
Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 9 months, 2 days
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17812945 - 02/16/13 12:15 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
It seems Paul is all about the money. That's pretty sad.
I thought with all the world betterment stuff he's apways spouting, he was kind of a hero of mine.. time I re-assesed that idea. I'll hang with you guys any day! Where folks give a wedge away. Free!
I was just dicking around on his website and noticed that he has now trademarked and copyrighted the Stamets P-value scale...
as in "Each strain is designated with the Stamets P Value® scale,"
How funny is that? As if patenting a strain of a wild organism ain't enough. Um,,, didnt monsanto invent that shit?? 1 part ego, 1 part greed.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17813506 - 02/16/13 02:40 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Damn, I am sorry to hear about that RR, that sounds like total bullshit. Luckily I have not had a bad experience with FP yet, they have actually been great. They gave me a free oyster block and sent me a set of sweet mushroom playing cards with a handwritten christmas card which I was pretty stoke on. I would never pay 150 for a culture though, especially with that kind of fine print tomfoolery.
Edited by thenilsmeister (02/16/13 02:41 PM)
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 262
Last seen: 3 years, 21 days
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17813528 - 02/16/13 02:46 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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One thing that does bother me though is that I live in Olympia and you cannot pick up orders of anything from their business location so I have to pay shipping for driving it 15 miles. Supposedly the whole thing is fenced off and kept very private. What kind of mischief are you up to in there Paul? Maybe if I take his mycology course one day (if its even worth it) I will "get lost finding the bathroom" or something haha.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17813737 - 02/16/13 03:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
"Each strain is designated with the Stamets P Value® scale,"
As you folks meet more and more professional mycologists in your travels, you'll find the number one thing you never do is name something after yourself. This is what got Stephen Peele in so much trouble with the community fifteen to twenty years ago and nobody has forgotten about it yet. You would think he wouldn't repeat the mistake, especially on something which has been used for years.
I think I'll trademark the name 'tree' because I have one in my back yard and it has bark and leaves. If you want to call a woody proliferation which rises from roots in the ground with bark and leaves a tree, you have to pay me.
RR
--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
Registered: 04/23/12
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17813796 - 02/16/13 03:35 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why doesnt this rule go for naming newly identified species? For example Suntzii Allenii etc etc. Seems more historical than scientific and a poor way to taxonomize an already confusing clade.
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17813803 - 02/16/13 03:36 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow. Thank you very much for sharing that experience in spite of being sued.
I didn't know the contract went so far to say you cant tell anyone that you've received a contaminated.
After hearing this, I will do my damnedest to not buy anything at all from FP. I just placed an less with them for some petri dishes and now I feel dirty. Almost as dirty as when I bought spores from spores101. ALMOST. Even typing that company makes me feel like washing my hands.
As far as the premises being fenced off... It's probably so nobody can get an up close view of his "ground breaking" techniques.
I do like his idea of bioremediation but as far as I can see, most of his knowledge has been gleaned from traditional ethnic growers from around the world, perhaps with a bit more scientific commentary thrown in.
However, I do see a lot of similar "proprietary egos" in this community, be it on a smaller scale. So, I can't say his fears are completely unfounded. Perhaps a lot of ppl don't like him simply because he beat them to the punch? However, having as much clout as he does in the mushroom community, it sets a bad example and merely perpetuates this secretive mindset of a lot of growers.
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
Registered: 06/15/12
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Loc: Babylon
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17813826 - 02/16/13 03:41 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's funny^
I'm actually glad so many folks chimed in on this. When I saw the prices I thought it was my own personal disbelief of worth.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day
Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 9 months, 2 days
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17813905 - 02/16/13 03:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
thenilsmeister said:
Why doesnt this rule go for naming newly identified species? For example Suntzii Allenii etc etc. Seems more historical than scientific and a poor way to taxonomize an already confusing clade.
The rule has always been that u can technically name it anything you want so long as u follow the rules of Latin grammar and nomenclature BUT...that only a PRICK would ever name it after themselves. That being said you could EXPECT that if PS ever found a new species he would,first patent it, and second, name it P. stamitzii.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17814810 - 02/16/13 06:39 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think we need to gang up on the guy. I just wish he would go back to an earlier age when honesty and integrity would make you a lot more money than you could get from cheating. There's only so many new customers to go around so there's no reason not to ship what a person orders and guarantee it. For crying out loud, aloha will replace a culture without question, even if you drop it on the floor and break it open.
RR
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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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JaComet
Old Hand
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17817148 - 02/17/13 04:18 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well RR, this is news to me. I always figured to give the guy some credit for being there from early on and basically starting/promoting the whole home cultivation scene. Even if he has been working with government agencies since day 1.
Guess I need to look for Antibiotic Agar elsewhere.
Peace All
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
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Loc: Babylon
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: JaComet]
#17817898 - 02/17/13 10:03 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah rog I feel the same way. Its just shitty. On a positive note, when I said "that guy was my hero" well, I had al these big ideas. Mostly revolving around medicine and unstudied fungals. When I looked into it, stamets had done just about all of the things I thought about doing. I thought that was pretty neat.
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batman returns
Dude man
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#17818057 - 02/17/13 10:45 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was disillusioned when I went to Olympia to take the seminar. I found it to be very basic, and most of the attendees exuded a really strange attitude... Dusty was really chill though. Paul seemed to be occupied with other things the entire time... which he probably was. The cultures you get from the seminar are guaranteed for life. I didn't know you couldn't tell anyone where your culture came from. I know you're not supposed to sell his spawn, but fruitbodies are Ok. Like I said, I felt the seminar was overpriced and lacked in information. Haven't really had any other problems, just put through an order for the last of my lab, laminar flow thread here I come!
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: batman returns]
#17819182 - 02/17/13 01:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good to know batman, saved me 3000$ 
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batman returns
Dude man
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17819354 - 02/17/13 02:08 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's nice to see an opperation like his first hand, really nice lab and spawn room. Worth $3000? Nope. Pretty much just a glorified tour. Wish I had that money back from time to time... usually when rent is due. 
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Amanita virosa
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: batman returns]
#17819713 - 02/17/13 02:41 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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and on than note... moderator... kill this fucking thread before I beat him up some more for making me listen to that same goddamn interview over and over and over when I am on hold at FP. Yes, we know your life story already!
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wally_world
Mr. Cook
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17820488 - 02/17/13 05:14 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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^ I wonder how well he pays his employees? I've pondered relocating to a place where I could work something I enjoy and FP was the first to come to mind.
Idk, maybe he treats employees better than his customers? They all sound reasonably happy when talking on the phone. Idk, though, I think the dreary NW weather would drive me to drinkin- I NEED sunshine in my life or I am not the same person.
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thenilsmeister
Shroomery addict
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: wally_world]
#17820951 - 02/17/13 06:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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From what I hear its pretty hard to get a job there. I have inquired about internships/jobs to no avail. It seems like you need an inside hookup, I could imagine it would be a good job though.
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile
Registered: 09/06/10
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: thenilsmeister]
#17972231 - 03/18/13 02:31 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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WOW this thread is in exact line with numerous different realizations i've had about Stamets and Fungi Perfecti. He used to be my hero and i thought i'd be driven to tears when i met him..... yeah not so much anymore. This stuff is common cultural inheiritance. It's our duty to do this research for the betterment of all and to share it, fill niche here or there and do hard work, don't try to play these marketing ploys and contract games.
My first bit of disillusionment came when Aloha showed me proof their strains of agaricus are agaritine free---when i asked Fungi Perfecti bout this they told me that they didn't bother to screen for that and that Dr. John Holliday was probably lying. Wow. He further explained to me how brown rice is pretty horrible substrate for any medicinal mushroom. No thanks Paul i don't need overpriced cultures wiht crazy rules attached and "myceliated brown rice flour" that is little more than brown rice flour. They sent me playing cards this year too, must've had them taking up space and figured they could try to keep you in love enough not to look up Aloha. Also they treated me like a cretin when i inquired about internship/job opps. Aloha offered me the scholarship and engauged me in several eductional discussions via e-mail.
Enough Stamet's Bashing i had a question. I just cloned several wild Pluerotus and one wild Lion's mane. Are my cuts already mono-cultures? or do wild mushrooms require isolating? (then i'd test each available isolate right?)
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I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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Lord_McLovin
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17972829 - 03/18/13 06:33 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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As far as I know, cloned tertiary mycelium can in general contain more than one strain, so you should watch out for the occurence of sectors. You might want a second opinion, though.
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Amanita virosa
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#17973251 - 03/18/13 09:44 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lord_McLovin said:
As far as I know, cloned tertiary mycelium can in general contain more than one strain, so you should watch out for the occurence of sectors. You might want a second opinion, though.
Tertiary mycelium is still dikaryotic and should be a pure isolate. Any sectoring is likely contamination.
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nycomyco
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17973713 - 03/18/13 11:42 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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McLovin's right, you can encounter two incompatible strains within one fruitbody. This L. sulphureus dish contains two tissue clones from the same fruit and you can clearly see the barrage line separating the two cultures.
It seems crazy, but if you think about it it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint- since lots of matings occur between spores from the same fruit, it helps to have as much genetic diversity as possible.
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Amanita virosa
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: nycomyco]
#17974179 - 03/18/13 01:28 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nycomyco said:
McLovin's right, you can encounter two incompatible strains within one fruitbody. This L. sulphureus dish contains two tissue clones from the same fruit and you can clearly see the barrage line separating the two cultures.
It seems crazy, but if you think about it it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint- since lots of matings occur between spores from the same fruit, it helps to have as much genetic diversity as possible.
but how do two different strains communicate to make one individual fruit body if they are repelling one another? seems more likely in something like sulfer shelf where you have a cluster of many different fruiting bodies than in, say, an agaricus where each fruiting body is clearly distinct. Did the two tissue samples come from the exact same fruiting body or from two different ones from the same cluster? I have cloned a lot of mush and never seen this....not doubting you, just very interesting...
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nycomyco
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17978310 - 03/19/13 08:04 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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these were from the same "shelf" and actually quite close to eachother. that's a really good point though- perhaps the tertiary mycelium acts differently than secondary and has no trouble making connections between incompatible hyphae... but how?? I hope someone with some expertise in this can weigh in.
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Amanita virosa
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: nycomyco]
#17978450 - 03/19/13 08:52 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
nycomyco said:
these were from the same "shelf" and actually quite close to eachother. that's a really good point though- perhaps the tertiary mycelium acts differently than secondary and has no trouble making connections between incompatible hyphae... but how?? I hope someone with some expertise in this can weigh in.
Fascinating....Mycelio (carsten) or Alan rockerfeller would know more. or rr of course...
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Lennybernadino
Amazon grower
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17979328 - 03/19/13 01:01 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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I think Paul Stamets is subject to all sorts of cultural influences that go along with being a celebrity. Also he is doing a lot of groubdbreaking and as a high profile grounfbreaking mycorevolutionary he has had to deal with a lot of bullshit Aloha does not and yes that has changed his attitude, made him kind of Harder and colder in a legal buissenss sense. his fame makes him soought after by simply more people than he or his company have time to deal with wich has some unfortunate consequences of them having to reject portentially valuable contacts . He has to protect himself and fund his investigations, I believe that is his priority and so he wants to make money to do that, if he got some negative aspects in his personality because of the celebrity status and such well we all are all memebers of a very sick and confused species, raised in sick societied surrounded by sick people telling us how to live, we all take unpleasant cultural illnesses into ourselcves as a result of this there is no reason that a famous peorson who is a little fucked up liek everyone is should be any mor attacked about being fucked up than everyone eslse is though it may be considered he is attacked fort the good work he does as awell by sick assholes .
My ecperience with the strains is this , I cloned a warm weather
P. ostreatus mushroom strain from a FP wooden dowel, and I cloned a local P.pulminarius strain that was one of the best I have seen around and cultivated them side by side . The Dowel strain is a goof producer wich produces large mushrooms though with large stipes, The pulminarius is mquicker and produces reliably a lot more quickly, though not quite as much so far, produces large clusters that have very little stipe . The Pulminarius taste slightly better so I think I am deciding to favor mother nature{s strain wich was free than the dowel strain wich was also free (a friend gave me the dowel).
Conclusion is that Both Funi perfecti works through maybe thousands of strains to isolate a few good ones, Mother nature works with much more than that and occasionally comes up with excellent strains as well, I like combining mushroom hunting and growing I am a much mroe skilled and talented hunter/observer than i am a cultivator (been practising growing foronly the last 5 years) And I can hunt down excellent strains of wild mushrooms an recognize them when I see them . Fungi Perfectis is a well known celebrity amongst mushrom companyes and therefore enjoys the ability to charge more money . Aloha earns its reputation merely on doing a really good job but they will never be as famous as Paul stamets. Mother nature does not charge anyhting and comes up with some of the best strains ever but also comes up with shit strains, though you must relise that nature is higly competitive so that mushrooms in nature have been selected agains numerous competitors.
jEr
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nycomyco
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Lennybernadino]
#17979728 - 03/19/13 02:38 PM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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well put, Lenny. We have to consider the vast amount of revolutionary work Stamets' team is doing, adn the reality that it takes $, time, and care to put those revolutionary ideas into practice. I hope that he chooses more open-source and less murdery organizations than the Department of Defense to collaborate with in the future so that we can actually reap the benefits of these discoveries as a global society. I got the impression from hearing him talk about the insecticidal and agarikon projects, and some pretty crazy personal experiences defending intellectual and physical property, at the seminar that he has learned some valuable lessons and has operationalized safeguards to insure that humanity doesn't lose these discoveries.
Not to excuse the clear problems that everyone's raised, but I think we gotta at least give the man props for being the most influential advocate and important researcher in this field we're all dedicated to. It's also now up to us to carry on with this type of research, and we have the benefit of being part of this gem of a mycelially-networked community which shares rather than hoards called shroomery.
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile
Registered: 09/06/10
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Loc: Planet Earth
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: nycomyco]
#17982564 - 03/20/13 01:13 AM (11 years, 30 days ago) |
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Hrm, spotting sectoring in Hericium is quite a trick. Thanks for the info however coflicting.
My main concern with Paul is the fact that all his over blown mushroom promoting that has driven the expansion of the commercial field here is going to reach a tipping point. First of all his claims and the field of mycology typically appeals to particular demographics and personalities, so he is basically targeting creative business people seeking opportunity, sick people or their relatives, or a young person seeking identity. I see him taking advantage of this psychology for whatever that is worth, and his claims are all based in fact, but they are majorly overblown. I stand by my original statements that he does not bother to carry agaritine free agaricus, but puts the info in his book, his company called aloha liars when i said they did, he exaggerates the science behind "novel compounds", which is even more of a joke when you realize all his "medical mushroom pills" are little more than brown rice flour, and with his wealth of knowledge trust me he knows this. I think all the interest he's garnered from those of us on the outskirts of the mainstream, free thinkers, dreamers, and big dream believers is about to be turned into disillusionment. I noticed he took that chart of medical mushroom benefits out of his catalog (probably because its exageratory and maybe he realizes what he is going to ulimately do not only to his own reputation but the ENTIRE INDUSTRY). It just seems all this marketing and exagerating is going to turn the whole country off just as much as he turned them on if he doesn't get more down to earth and realistic. And as far as handling your business and yada yada i'd say taking care of RR appropriately is a good place to start.
My prediction is Aloha will be standing long after Fungi Perfecti finally fizzles out, unless it gives up on the PR assault and gets with a real sensical program. BTW aloha's actual quality medicine is on average 33% the price. And i don't understand your argument that its cool he fleeces money from sick people and those interested in a tour/meeting him(a byproduct of the PR) because it goes into research costs.
He's a pioneer yeah, but when you "rest on your laurels" you lose everytime.
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I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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nycomyco
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17983398 - 03/20/13 09:00 AM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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Fair enough, his employee certainly should not have assumed Aloha was lying without having looked into it. Working for Stamets, they might think they're privy to the best cultures and every piece of information the moment it comes out- ultimately with this attitude more things will fly by their radar. As for his medicinals being glorified brown rice flower- how does Aloha's method differ from FP's? From what a FP employee told me, they grow out their mycelium on brown rice extra long so that vast majority of rice is converted into mycelium. Then for medicinals that include mycelium+fruitbody, they allow it to start to fruit then freeze(?)dry and grind it all.
Another questions- is there a third party that analyzes samples from FP, Aloha and others?? Also, FP tests a bunch of strains of each medicinal for % of active compounds- for instance he showed a chart of 12 or so different highly-variable hericium strains and their erinacene content and confirmed that their commercial hericium culture is indeed the most medically active strain. Do other producers like Aloha do this too?
The prices on aloha are indeed better, so if they are comparable or better, I will switch, although I make more and more of my own medicinals these days and save a fortune
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nycomyco
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: nycomyco]
#17983423 - 03/20/13 09:06 AM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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and following up on the chemical analysis issue: Stamets mentioned that some tests are bogus. For instance B-glucan analyses of the same sample from different labs shows extreme variance. I think he said that overall polysaccharide content is a better indicator of b-glucan content. Agaratine should be much easier to test for since it's a much smaller molecule. If I were Aloha, I might have the A blazei sample tested by several independent labs just to be sure.
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Amanita virosa
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17983587 - 03/20/13 10:00 AM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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Paranoid megalomaniac. Sorry, anyone that goes to such extremes to protect their "property" has psycological issues. At least when Monsanto does it, they are protecting something they actually "created" thru genetic modification. No amount of banter will ever convince me that someone can patent their version of a species. You will also never convince me that it is that difficult or takes millions of dollars to develop a new strain of edible mushroom. When I first started doing mushroom installations, i was purchasing plugs and sawdust spawn from FP. One day I mentioned what I was doing with the spawn to some guy named Peter at FP, essencially re-selling it by putting it in other people's logs on their property. Although he did not say anything to me at the time, about a week later I received a threatening letter saying what I was doing was illegal, along with several pages of legal documents that I was supposed to sign and return. Sorry, that is just plain paranoid. Lord forbid that someone else might make a few bucks off of something they bought from FP. I don't think anyone is disputing that the guy is a "pioneer". I just think his business practices suck and that he is paranoid.
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17984311 - 03/20/13 01:19 PM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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Agree. 100% ^
Unless we are talking about a puppy or some other pet, when you sell something, who cares where the fuck it goes!
Imagine if some store sold you a bicycle and stipulated that you couldn't ride it on Sundays or face a lawsuit. That's how ridiculous this shit is. If he believed in the helping/healing things he claims to, he'd be more interested in spreading these than monopolizing them. Its really sad actually. Note: if you sell stamets' cultures mycelium ect, just say it's wildcrafted & nobody will know. It's that simple.
Edit: Cmon paul.. isolating for certain traits genetically is something a young child could be trained to do. Yes its work but this capital Naziism is a real bummer.
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batman returns
Dude man
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: Amanita virosa]
#17986447 - 03/20/13 07:51 PM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said:
Paranoid megalomaniac. Sorry, anyone that goes to such extremes to protect their "property" has psycological issues. At least when Monsanto does it, they are protecting something they actually "created" thru genetic modification. No amount of banter will ever convince me that someone can patent their version of a species. You will also never convince me that it is that difficult or takes millions of dollars to develop a new strain of edible mushroom. When I first started doing mushroom installations, i was purchasing plugs and sawdust spawn from FP. One day I mentioned what I was doing with the spawn to some guy named Peter at FP, essencially re-selling it by putting it in other people's logs on their property. Although he did not say anything to me at the time, about a week later I received a threatening letter saying what I was doing was illegal, along with several pages of legal documents that I was supposed to sign and return. Sorry, that is just plain paranoid. Lord forbid that someone else might make a few bucks off of something they bought from FP. I don't think anyone is disputing that the guy is a "pioneer". I just think his business practices suck and that he is paranoid.
At the seminar I attended, he said that he only patented strains to protect the from the big evil corporations, and that he'd never take action against the little guy. Guess he's as full of shit as it seems. Like I said earlier, it was a very strange vibe there... kind of hostile. Dusty was way cool, but most of the guests and Paul himself where off putting. Jimmy was cool... but most of the other people where just too cool for school.
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woodland_jewel
In den Gärten Pharaos
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: batman returns]
#17986902 - 03/20/13 09:12 PM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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This is an interesting thread, but how many of you have actually READ the Spawn Sales Agreement? Here are the two points of it that are related to what's been discussed here...
From http://fungi.com/mushroom-spawn-sale-agreement.html
- 4. Limited Warranty. Fungi Perfecti, LLC guarantees to our customer that the mushroom culture will be viable upon receiving. We will replace any spawn stored and used according to this Mushroom Spawn Sale Agreement if the mushroom culture does not demonstrate vitality and purity during the expansion stage. If you wish to request replacement spawn, please provide a written explanation of the problem/s you are having and forward your inquiry to either our mailing address or our email, info@fungi.com. We will promptly replace your spawn at no additional charge, subject only to availability. If your culture is no longer available, we will talk with you about providing a suitable replacement species. This spawn is being provided as an educational service, and we make no guarantee as to their productivity, usefulness, fitness for a particular purpose or otherwise unless stated in this Agreement. Fungi Perfecti, LLC shall not be responsible for consequential damages or other damages except as specified. This is the sole and exclusive limited warranty provided by Fungi Perfect, LLC, and customer agrees that the limit of Fungi Perfecti, LLC's liability to customer shall be the purchase price.
- 5. Limitation of Use. Your Fungi Perfecti, LLC ready to inoculate mushroom spawn is conditionally delivered subject to your agreement to comply with the following limitation of culture(s) use:
You may not sell, transfer, market or assign Fungi Perfecti, LLC's spawn or cultures—or any spawn or cultures subsequently derived therefrom—in any way, shape or form without our written consent.
You may not represent these cultures as being connected with Fungi Perfecti, LLC without our written consent.
You may only use these cultures for fresh and dried fruit body products, and for your personal use to grow spawn for fresh and dried fruit body products.
If the actions of the company conflict with the sales agreement then that's one thing, but I don't see anything here that should inspire such ire. The dude just doesn't want people making spawn from his cultures and selling it as though it was from Fungi Perfecti. I wouldn't want some ass selling contaminated spawn and attaching my name to it either.
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batman returns
Dude man
Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 213
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: woodland_jewel]
#17987376 - 03/20/13 10:45 PM (11 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
You may not sell, transfer, market or assign Fungi Perfecti, LLC's spawn or cultures—or any spawn or cultures subsequently derived therefrom—in any way, shape or form without our written consent.
This is the line that inspires the ire. You cannot sell his spawn, period. No fruiting logs, no kits, just mushrooms. I've always personally felt it was an unreasonable request. One way around it would be to just start from spore off "his" fruit bodies.
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fivedollalongtime
Patriarch of Mushroom Kingdom
Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 78
Loc: That place with the sell ...
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Re: Edible cultures: Stamets. Overpriced hype? [Re: batman returns]
#18987053 - 10/16/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have tons of edible and medicinal cultures, 40+ AND GROWING! If anyone needs anything in particular, PM me. I also have many rare mycorrhizal species, that none of you could really use 
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"Although September 11 was horrible, it didn't threaten the survival of the human race, like nuclear weapons do" Stephen Hawking
"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet" Stephen Hawking
"Mushrooms are NOT plants and the NPK numbers have about as much relevance as they would if you were feeding fertilizer to humans."
RR
My personal projects in progress for the Mushroom Kingdom:
http://       
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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A lot of the expensive cultures with guaranteed premium yields probably don't outperform regular clones of store bought mushrooms (which anyone can knock up with know how or even h202).
I've never come across an isolate of any of the oyster varieties that didn't perform quite well so I would think twice before paying someone big bucks because you want commercial yields just because they claim their isolate performs. Nearly all the phenotypes of some of these species do.
I hear shiitakes can be iffy but with time and a collection of say 10 different strains I'm sure with, time, testing and selective isolation you could come up with an awesome one.
these guys have to claim they have isolates that out perform others to stand out.
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