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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Tsukasa]
    #17850908 - 02/23/13 01:51 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TriGeoLight said:
More so than often because rape is hardly reported... Or at least what our society calls rape. Older men and women having sex with children (under age) there are a great deal number of people who enjoyed it and still enjoyed the fact it happened as well as children having sex with other children.

I think the only reason people tell like the people at Pen State did was because they where brainwashed in to believing they were victims and that they were taken advantage of and become hurt and resentful over it and desire revenge. The same happens with a bunch of other cases in my opinion. They enjoyed it until they learned it was wrong. Our society is very close minded and I don't desire to be a part of it. But I'm trapped.




So your saying these kids were gay?


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: johnm214]
    #17851329 - 02/23/13 06:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Yep.  Tough shit, if you want to put someone in jail, you may have to be inconvenienced and deal with some bitter memories.



It still seems like one needs a per se line.  At some point, a person becomes young enough that any attempt to show that they understand is just an exercise in harassment.  Putting a 4 year old on the stand to question him/her about sex is absurd at best and abusive at worst.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17851391 - 02/23/13 07:05 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Yep.  Tough shit, if you want to put someone in jail, you may have to be inconvenienced and deal with some bitter memories.



It still seems like one needs a per se line.  At some point, a person becomes young enough that any attempt to show that they understand is just an exercise in harassment.  Putting a 4 year old on the stand to question him/her about sex is absurd at best and abusive at worst.




This is why we have anatomically correct dolls and social workers skilled at repeatedly helping a child into answering correctly before we put them on the stand.

Duh!


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17851393 - 02/23/13 07:06 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yes...anatomically correct dolls are going to be very helpful at finding out whether or not a child understands STDS and child support...

What was I thinking?


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17851397 - 02/23/13 07:10 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yes...anatomically correct dolls are going to be very helpful at finding out whether or not a child understands STDS and child support...

What was I thinking?




Obviously, you weren't.  Or you wouldn't have asked.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17851455 - 02/23/13 07:50 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Yep.  Tough shit, if you want to put someone in jail, you may have to be inconvenienced and deal with some bitter memories.



It still seems like one needs a per se line.  At some point, a person becomes young enough that any attempt to show that they understand is just an exercise in harassment.  Putting a 4 year old on the stand to question him/her about sex is absurd at best and abusive at worst.






Why?  The kid can be put in a seperate room with just the judge prosecutor and defense table and go slow.  Judges are well suited to stop legitimate harrasment, but this same kind of thing has to occur when the fact of the touching/raping is disputed rather than just the consent.  Its really difficult to see how much lattitude a defendant would need to fairly examine a juvenile accuser who's that young. 

Basically its such a ridiculous proposition that a young child has consented that I doubt they will be examined much except perhaps by a pro se fruitcake who doesn't realize its just pissing everyone off, and then the judge can step in.

I assume you agree that rape shield laws that limit the right of the accused to confront the witness and question them are wrong, even with children, yes? The same arguments are made there, though I agree where everyone agrees the conduct took place there's more of an argument for protecting the victim.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: johnm214]
    #17851607 - 02/23/13 09:15 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I see absolutely no point in asking a 4 year old about contraception, STDs, pregnancy, social stigma, etc...It is needlessly harassing a victim.  There is no reason NOT to have a per se prohibition on an adult having sex with a 4 year old, and lots of good reasons to have such a prohibition.

I don't claim to know where the line should be, but it's pretty clear to me that a line should exist and that age 4 is on the wrong side of that line.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #17851733 - 02/23/13 10:00 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I see absolutely no point in asking a 4 year old about contraception, STDs, pregnancy, social stigma, etc...It is needlessly harassing a victim.  There is no reason NOT to have a per se prohibition on an adult having sex with a 4 year old, and lots of good reasons to have such a prohibition.

I don't claim to know where the line should be, but it's pretty clear to me that a line should exist and that age 4 is on the wrong side of that line.





I agree in the specific, but I'm generally against "good enough" cut offs in the law that attach strict liability beyond some point for fear that point will be set so liberally that it relieves the prosecutor of establishing the actual offensive conduct occured at all.  If we're going to have a jury system I think they should decide the actual matter, not some proxy for it served up by the legislature.  If we're trying to stop harmful exploitation, lets put that question to the jury.

For example, I probably particpated in a rape technically under some states' laws due to assisting in a medical procedure (catheterization of a young child who wasn't too pleased about the prospect).  If any penetration, depending on what penetration is defined as, counts as rape, that child was raped.  Obviously a prosecutor would not bring that case, but then why do we have laws that are so broad as to criminalize such conduct that we don't know ahead of time whether its harmful or not?  Rather than age and penetration being dispositive, the actual harm is what should be targeted. The criminal laws should be strictly circumscribed to the most egregious and clear cases.

Same thing with stupid DWI laws that apply whether you are intoxicated or not (or even have a physiologically active substance in your body at all).  Prosecutorial and judicial efficiency should not be valued above the rights of the defendant and the restraining power of the jury.  In the more extreme cases the question is so obvious that I don't see much testimony being needed in the first place.  Its really hard to see how a lawyer would think it fruitful to beat up the witness when its so obvious a question.

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OfflineTsukasa
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: budmanman]
    #17858363 - 02/24/13 03:18 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

TriGeoLight said:
More so than often because rape is hardly reported... Or at least what our society calls rape. Older men and women having sex with children (under age) there are a great deal number of people who enjoyed it and still enjoyed the fact it happened as well as children having sex with other children.

I think the only reason people tell like the people at Pen State did was because they where brainwashed in to believing they were victims and that they were taken advantage of and become hurt and resentful over it and desire revenge. The same happens with a bunch of other cases in my opinion. They enjoyed it until they learned it was wrong. Our society is very close minded and I don't desire to be a part of it. But I'm trapped.




So your saying these kids were gay?



No, some might be in to that though. I'm saying that some enjoyed it but become resentful or start feeling victimized by what today's society tells them.


--------------------

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17858387 - 02/24/13 03:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I see absolutely no point in asking a 4 year old about contraception, STDs, pregnancy, social stigma, etc...It is needlessly harassing a victim.  There is no reason NOT to have a per se prohibition on an adult having sex with a 4 year old, and lots of good reasons to have such a prohibition.

I don't claim to know where the line should be, but it's pretty clear to me that a line should exist and that age 4 is on the wrong side of that line.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Tsukasa]
    #17858394 - 02/24/13 03:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I see absolutely no point in asking a 4 year old about contraception, STDs, pregnancy, social stigma, etc...It is needlessly harassing a victim.  There is no reason NOT to have a per se prohibition on an adult having sex with a 4 year old, and lots of good reasons to have such a prohibition.

I don't claim to know where the line should be, but it's pretty clear to me that a line should exist and that age 4 is on the wrong side of that line.




:whathesaid:
Quote:

TriGeoLight said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

TriGeoLight said:
More so than often because rape is hardly reported... Or at least what our society calls rape. Older men and women having sex with children (under age) there are a great deal number of people who enjoyed it and still enjoyed the fact it happened as well as children having sex with other children.

I think the only reason people tell like the people at Pen State did was because they where brainwashed in to believing they were victims and that they were taken advantage of and become hurt and resentful over it and desire revenge. The same happens with a bunch of other cases in my opinion. They enjoyed it until they learned it was wrong. Our society is very close minded and I don't desire to be a part of it. But I'm trapped.




So your saying these kids were gay?



No, some might be in to that though. I'm saying that some enjoyed it but become resentful or start feeling victimized by what today's society tells them.




Well I am not very informed about the sandusky stuff but I am pretty sure the men claimed that as boys they struggled when sandusky tried to touch them and butt fuck them. Sandusky butt fucked them rite? Pretty sure he did. What a sick fuck. He is a child rapist.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: budmanman] * 2
    #17858461 - 02/24/13 03:49 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Sandusky butt fucked them rite? Pretty sure he did.

He did. But what I find confusing is that these kids continued to go to Sandusky's house and spend the night there and travel all over the country with him. They did this for years. Then they told Sandusky to fuck off and he reluctantly did back off. It's not like he abducted them, tied them up, and fucked them.

I know that trauma victims sometimes act in inexplicable ways, but it's hard for me to swallow parts of their story. When I was a kid, if someone was doing something to me that I didn't like, I would just stop going to their house and spending the night. It's not that hard to simply say no when he calls up on the phone and invites me over to a sleep-over, yet some of these guys stayed in their relationship with Sandusky well into their teens.

Maybe they didn't particularly care for the sex, but they liked all the other benefits that came with spending time with Sandusky. It seems to me that they made a conscious decision to put up with the sex (or they enjoyed it) in order to get the fun trips and other nice things Sandusky did for them. Either that or they liked having access to regular blowjobs.

I don't know all the details of this case, but that's what I've been able to glean. In my book, a 15 year old boy knows exactly what's up when he's getting his dick sucked, and he can put a stop to it at any time. These guys didn't say anything until much later when they realized Sandusky's and Penn State's deep pockets were vulnerable to a giant civil lawsuit after a criminal trial.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Diploid]
    #17858471 - 02/24/13 03:51 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:manofapproval:


:shitstorm: incoming. Brace for arrival.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Diploid]
    #17858540 - 02/24/13 04:07 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
it's hard for me to swallow parts of their story.



Pun intended?


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17858548 - 02/24/13 04:08 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't even catch that, but ho-ly fucking :lolsy: 
Thank you.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17858558 - 02/24/13 04:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I was waiting to see if someone would notice that. :razz:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleHand of Fate
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Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 68
Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Enlil]
    #17858709 - 02/24/13 04:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
it's hard for me to swallow parts of their story.



Pun intended?




Freudian slip?

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: Diploid]
    #17858729 - 02/24/13 04:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Sandusky butt fucked them rite? Pretty sure he did.

He did. But what I find confusing is that these kids continued to go to Sandusky's house and spend the night there and travel all over the country with him. They did this for years. Then they told Sandusky to fuck off and he reluctantly did back off. It's not like he abducted them, tied them up, and fucked them.

I know that trauma victims sometimes act in inexplicable ways, but it's hard for me to swallow parts of their story. When I was a kid, if someone was doing something to me that I didn't like, I would just stop going to their house and spending the night. It's not that hard to simply say no when he calls up on the phone and invites me over to a sleep-over, yet some of these guys stayed in their relationship with Sandusky well into their teens.

Maybe they didn't particularly care for the sex, but they liked all the other benefits that came with spending time with Sandusky. It seems to me that they made a conscious decision to put up with the sex (or they enjoyed it) in order to get the fun trips and other nice things Sandusky did for them. Either that or they liked having access to regular blowjobs.

I don't know all the details of this case, but that's what I've been able to glean. In my book, a 15 year old boy knows exactly what's up when he's getting his dick sucked, and he can put a stop to it at any time. These guys didn't say anything until much later when they realized Sandusky's and the Penn State's deep pockets were vulnerable to a giant civil lawsuit after a criminal trial.




Sandusky was basically pimping them out and he was their only customer.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: budmanman]
    #17860198 - 02/24/13 08:49 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Which poses the question, where do we draw the line with consent, what is consent in the first place, if a drunk chick who hops on your nuts is actually being raped, and a kid who is selling their ass for football tickets is being raped, I guess the same logic applies to a regular kid having sex with someone who is less than 10 years older..... great logic....


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.

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OfflineWithinity
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Re: Why do we deny childrens innate sexuality? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17860227 - 02/24/13 08:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Just fuck off already Seashrooms, no'one wants to hear your justification for Child Molestation, we get the point.


--------------------

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