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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1784145 - 08/06/03 05:54 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

People are still moaning about the war... Jesus...


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 18 years, 22 days
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1784174 - 08/06/03 06:14 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
If the money actually goes to the rebuilding of the country, what difference does it make who does the work?

I'll repeat, should the US just start carting money away, let me know. 


Wow, if we put Iraqi money into American pockets, it's all good, but when we put American money into American pockets (through social programs), it's STEALING!  :wink:   


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Cornholio]
    #1784244 - 08/06/03 07:03 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
If the money actually goes to the rebuilding of the country, what difference does it make who does the work?

I'll repeat, should the US just start carting money away, let me know. 


Wow, if we put Iraqi money into American pockets, it's all good, but when we put American money into American pockets (through social programs), it's STEALING!  :wink:   


Did you start drinking early today?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1784336 - 08/06/03 09:19 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GernBlanston said:
Well.. lemme see.

We are spending their money to rebuild their country, right?  Who is doing the rebuilding?

Halliburton - a company that until 2 years ago was partially owned by one Richard Cheney, who also sat on it's board of directors.  You know.. the vice president?  The guy who still gets $120k a year in 'consulting fees' from the company?

*crap* I've drawn a blank on the other company - out of SF...  owned by George Schultz... damn :frown:

Anyhoo... it doesn't really seem to me like they're getting too much of their money to rebuild.  Seems a bit like, yet again, the Old Boys Club of the Good Ol US of A is profiting. 




This drives me insane. You act like Haliburton is responsible for rebuilding the entire country. All they are doing is working on the oil infrastructure. The reason they got the contract is the same reason the did in the last war. They are the most qualified to do the work.

We have spent billions of dollars on this war. Why do you think it is so wrong for American companies to make some money rebuilding? Should we just give all of the contracts to the French maybe? No one is going to do the work for free.

We, along with the other countries that helped, fought this war. American tax dollars paid for it. Why shouldn't American workers reap the benefits of the rebuilding contracts? I would much rather have any money that is paid by our taxpayers, be paid to companies that employ the same taxpayers.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: shakta]
    #1784551 - 08/06/03 11:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

We have spent billions of dollars on this war. Why do you think it is so wrong for American companies to make some money rebuilding?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The same people responsible for slaughtering thousands of innocents then get to make enormous profits out of it too? Do you think the Nazi's deserved all the jews money because they'd spent so much on sending them to Auschwitz?

Where did you learn your morals?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Xlea321]
    #1784743 - 08/06/03 01:06 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

The reason they got the contract is the same reason the did in the last war. They are the most qualified to do the work.

Jesus, man. If you actually believe this, then there is something very wrong here. The reason they got the contract is that the company was partially owned by Dick Cheney - Bush Sr.'s Sec. Def. Halliburton was, at that time, a company in Texas who had NEVER been awarded a single international contract. Not one. They had NO experience in rebuilding the infrastructure of an entire country. Hell, some people argued that they weren't even very good at doing it in Texas!

We have spent billions of dollars on this war. Why do you think it is so wrong for American companies to make some money rebuilding?

But when the motivation for the fucking war in the first place was so that American companies could have an obstacle free avenue for making giant shitloads of money - with no federal regulatory roadblocks (which, themselves, are becoming corrupted to the will of big business as we speak) in the way.. well, THAT's a problem.

Some of you people see what you want to see and nothing else. Goddamn it, I hope the sky is at least a pretty color in your tiny little world.


--------------------
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1784746 - 08/06/03 01:08 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Considering you have no evidence to base your claim on, I'd say that the sky in your world is the one we should be looking at.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1784872 - 08/06/03 02:04 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

It's certainly far more valid a claim than the whole weapons of mass deception nonsense ever was.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Xlea321]
    #1784893 - 08/06/03 02:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

..even i can agree with that!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Xlea321]
    #1784928 - 08/06/03 02:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
We have spent billions of dollars on this war. Why do you think it is so wrong for American companies to make some money rebuilding?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The same people responsible for slaughtering thousands of innocents then get to make enormous profits out of it too? Do you think the Nazi's deserved all the jews money because they'd spent so much on sending them to Auschwitz?

Where did you learn your morals?




Give me a damn break. You comparing this to the Nazis is now the height of your mental retardation that we all have become all to familiar with. Saddam was the Nazi in this case. We are playing the same role we did in that war. We are rebuilding the nation that was ruled by the Nazi, just like we did with Germany after WW2. Everyone thinks that Saddam being gone is a good thing. We all know that the country has to be rebuilt after 30 years of neglect by Saddam's regime and the war. We (American taxpayers) are going to foot most of the bill. We deserve to pay our own companies to do the rebuilding. Who else should get the contracts? Canada? France? If they are not willing to help the people of Iraq rebuild their country why should they benefit from it?


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1784959 - 08/06/03 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Plus, there would have been no sanctions had Saddam complied with the surrender agreement.





Here is a brief timeline with some quotes:

April 3, 1991: U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 687. It includes
many demands but states that once Iraq complies with the weapons
inspection regime, the sanctions "shall have no further force or effect."

May 20, 1991: President George Bush: "At this juncture, my view is we don't want to lift these sanctions as long as Saddam Hussein is in power." James Baker, Secretary of State: "We are not interested in seeing a relaxation of sanctions as long as Saddam Hussein is in power."

January 12, 1995: While inspections were taking place, Ambassador
Madeleine Albright said the U.S. was "determined to oppose any
modification of the sanctions regime until Iraq has moved to comply with
all its outstanding obligations." She specifically cited the return of
Kuwaiti weaponry and non-military equipment.

May 12, 1996: On "60 Minutes," Lesley Stahl asks Albright: "We have heard that a half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. Is the price worth it?" Albright responds: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

March 26, 1997: Albright, in her first major foreign policy address as
Secretary of State: "We do not agree with the nations who argue that if
Iraq complies with its obligations concerning weapons of mass destruction,
sanctions should be lifted. Our view, which is unshakable, is that Iraq
must prove its peaceful intentions.... And the evidence is overwhelming
that Saddam Hussein's intentions will never be peaceful."

November 14, 1997: President Clinton. [During a standoff on weapons inspectors] "What he [Hussein] says his objective is, is to relieve the people of Iraq, and presumably the government, of the burden of the sanctions. What he has just done is to ensure that the sanctions will be there until the end of time or as long as he lasts.

August 20, 1997: Ambassador Bill Richardson: "Sanctions may stay on in
perpetuity."






--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Edame]
    #1785012 - 08/06/03 02:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

While your timeline is nicely done, it doesn't change the fact that had he complied, things would have been very different.

For that matter, had he not invaded Kuwait, there would have been no sanctions.

Anyone with no ax to grind realizes he, and he alone, was responsible.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1785088 - 08/06/03 03:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I was just pointing out that I felt that your statement was inaccurate. What motivation was there for Saddam to disarm when the US states publicly that sanctions would never end as long as he was in power? As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. I think most people here would agree that Saddam really didn't give a shit what happened to his people, so why continue to impose sanctions that contribute to their starvation and suffering?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Edame]
    #1785132 - 08/06/03 03:18 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Just think of all the trouble we could have avoided had Bush The Elder just let our guys finish the job the first time.

And as for the publicly stated desire for the sanctions to remain in effect, we'll never know if they would have or not since he didn't comply. The onus was upon him. He thought he could bluff his way past them. He was wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Zahid]
    #1785246 - 08/06/03 04:04 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
i carry i gun to. I hope that doesnt allow any random person to kill me.

Don't be silly. Are you part of an otherwise evil military power?





Well you seem to think the whole of the american millitary is evil some i dont think the same about. Most of what you think is good i think is bad and vice versa but that the opinion you choose to have. And who is to say im not apart of the american millitary?

Quote:

Zahid said:
And just beacuse a contry cant beat another country's military it doesnt make it right to attack innocent people from that country.

Why do you keep saying 'innocent'? Are the Americans killed in the Iraqi and Afghan wars innocent? Innocent people are non-combatants.





i dont think you realize that the uss cole was not taking over yemen. It was docked their for peaceful reason which makes the ship non-combative. I dont see why you cant understand this.

Quote:

Zahid said:
When america was at war with iraq i certainly couldnt beat the iraq millitary by myself. Did that allow to kill any iraq i choose.

You're twisting my words. I am talking about soldiers, not civilians.





Well the reality is most deaths of us soldiers arnt from uniformed iraqi troops. Most are "civilians". If i were serving in iraqi curently i would treat everyone i see as threat however they may apear. That is the reality of fighting there. Therfore by your standards i could kill and iraqi.

Quote:

Zahid said:
As for the whole array of different 'military types' you're always mentioning, if they're deployed in the region, I'd say they're fair game.





Again the uss cole were not deployed in active combot and were non-combative at that point. But beacuse you feel the uss cole is somehow fair game i bealive that by your logic any iraqi is america is "deployed" and therefore fair game.



--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1785286 - 08/06/03 04:14 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone with no ax to grind realizes he, and he alone, was responsible.

Don't be silly. Israel has broken scores of UN resolutions. No sanctions have yet been enforced. You talk as tho imposing sanctions is normal procedure.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Xlea321]
    #1785296 - 08/06/03 04:18 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

But alex at least isreal didnt invade another country like saddam. O no wait they did.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1785300 - 08/06/03 04:20 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

we'll never know if they would have or not since he didn't comply

No, he clearly complied. Otherwise we would have found WMD. The only thing he is guilty of is not being particularly helpful to a bunch of foreigners wanting to inspect every top secret location in his country. Do you think George Bush would happily co-operate in showing foreigners round around every top secret location in the US if he was asked to by the UN? I have my doubts.

He thought he could bluff his way past them

He didn't "bluff" anyone. There are no WMD there.

He was wrong.

Doesn't really matter does it. Thousands of innocents were slaughtered for the sake of giving the UN inspectors a few more months to establish the truth that there were no WMD in the country. A price worth paying?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: Xlea321]
    #1785316 - 08/06/03 04:25 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I wish you would stop saying there is absolutely no wmd in iraq you have no clue. Unless i see that video of you and saddam together in bed ive heard so very much about. And since he didnt document the destruction of his wmd he obvously didnt comply. Him not documenting the destruction breaks the cease-fire. Do you know what cease-fire means and what it means to break it. It means you can fire now. Something that occurs in war.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Unreported cost of war: 827 Americans wounded [Re: d33p]
    #1785367 - 08/06/03 04:41 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I wish you would stop saying there is absolutely no wmd in iraq you have no clue.

Ok, we can't find any and it's widely accepted by everyone from government ministers to intelligence experts that they don't exist. If you want to believe they are there you go ahead.

Do you know what cease-fire means and what it means to break it.

Yes I do. Do you even know what the "ceasefire" at the end of the first gulf war consisted of?

It means you can fire now

Don't talk out of your ass. It means no such thing. Armed force is permitted only in self-defense to an armed attack (UN Charter, art. 51) or with Security Council authorization (UN Charter, art. 42).


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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