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Offlinepsychedelicchick
The Outsider
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Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 19
Loc: Trinidad and Tobago Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: psychedelicchick]
    #17780880 - 02/10/13 11:26 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

psychedelicchick said:
"Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."




Precisely.  Who's quote is that?





Sam Harris from Letter To A Christian Nation


--------------------
"Over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill


Edited by psychedelicchick (02/10/13 11:30 PM)


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: cez]
    #17780904 - 02/10/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:

I don't understand how it's rational not to believe in a higher existence?
Why is a rational mind so important to you?

I think a lot of the brilliant minds in the world and of the past lean more towards an irrational mind.




There is no alternative to rationality.  There are subjective experiences - we might date someone for reasons that we can't quantify or rationalize.  But that's just because we don't understand the complexities of the human mind.  It's not "irrational" to date this person either. 

If irrationality is an alternative to rationality, then there is no point in talking about anything, ever. 

If I accept someone's statement that they don't use reason regarding god, then I must use reason to understand why this statement might lead to a belief in god.  you can't have it both ways.  You can't decide on a whim when not to use reason.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


Edited by clam_dude (02/10/13 11:36 PM)


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: psychedelicchick]
    #17780916 - 02/10/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psychedelicchick said:
Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

psychedelicchick said:
"Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."




Precisely.  Who's quote is that?





Sam Harris from Letter To A Christian Nation




Lol, that's not surprising.  I'm a big fan of Sam's. The only thing I've heard him say that I disagree with was his speech where he criticized the use of the word "atheism."


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisiblecez
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Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: psychedelicchick]
    #17780922 - 02/10/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

psychedelicchick said:
Its unjustified when there is absolutely zero evidence.





I think there's plenty of evidence that details a "master builder" so to speak.
Anything I post regarding evidence can be picked apart-Doesn't make it untrue, except maybe to you:wink:

Because you can't see something doesn't mean there's nothing there.
A shark for example may not notice the existence of humans but obviously that doesn't mean we can't affect that shark.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!
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Posts: 17,397
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: cez] * 1
    #17780932 - 02/10/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

This whole thread; :facepalm:




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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17780943 - 02/10/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
This whole thread; :facepalm:







Sure, if nobody believed in god anymore.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisiblecez
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Posts: 5,854
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17780944 - 02/10/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

cez said:

I don't understand how it's rational not to believe in a higher existence?
Why is a rational mind so important to you?

I think a lot of the brilliant minds in the world and of the past lean more towards an irrational mind.




There is no alternative to rationality.  There are subjective experiences - we might date someone for reasons that we can't quantify or rationalize.  But that's just because we don't understand the complexities of the human mind.  It's not "irrational" to date this person either. 

If irrationality is an alternative to rationality, then there is no point in talking about anything, ever. 

If I accept someone's statement that they don't use reason regarding god, then I must use reason to understand why this statement might lead to a belief in god.  you can't have it both ways.  You can't decide on a whim when not to use reason.





Of course you can.
You can use reason when picking a college major and you can decide on a whim where to go out to eat.

And if your saying "atheism is the only rational position," one can only infer the opposite being  "theism is an irrational position."


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Registered: 10/18/11
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme] * 3
    #17780949 - 02/10/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
This whole thread; :facepalm:









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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #17780952 - 02/10/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Common now, this is just becoming spam.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


Edited by clam_dude (02/10/13 11:44 PM)


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude] * 2
    #17780969 - 02/10/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Common now, this is just becoming spam.






--------------------


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Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Aerial Boundaries]
    #17780987 - 02/10/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Person said:
Actually agnosticism is the only rational position.  It's just as impossible to prove that there is no god as it is to prove that one exists.





atheism is the lack of belief in a god- this is the definition used by pretty much every prominent atheist- they are essentially all agnostic atheists.

You seem confused and likely mislead by semantic bullshit put out by theists and mystics and those who think the existance of the word agnostic somehow renders it exclusive of the term atheist.


Quote:

Aerial Boundaries said:
Well, no, atheism entirely precludes the existence of a god.





Back it up.

Why do all the prominent atheist atuhors I'm aware of call themselves atheists yet not hold this position?  Who exactly are the positive atheists you claim are referred to by this term?

Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennet, Penn Jillette, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Dan Barker, et cet all believe god is possible yet call themselves atheists because they lack a belief in him.  So is this just a term that refers to a nonexistant class of people?


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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #17780988 - 02/10/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Ok now, seriousness, I demand seriousness. We're talking about adults with imaginary friends here.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!
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Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude] * 2
    #17780992 - 02/10/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

It's only an imaginary friend if you're a child. If you're older, it's a mental disorder.
If you convince someone else your imaginary friend is real, it's religion!


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Registered: 10/18/11
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17780995 - 02/10/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Ok now, seriousness, I demand seriousness. We're talking about adults with imaginary friends here.




You can't demand seriousness while being flip.


--------------------


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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17781000 - 02/10/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
It's only an imaginary friend if you're a child. If you're older, it's a mental disorder.
If you convince someone else your imaginary friend is real, it's religion!




Almost - if you convince someone else, it's a cult.  Gather a few thousand more people and it's a religion!


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineAedan
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Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 950
Loc: the desert
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17781136 - 02/11/13 12:25 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I would define God as everything, yes, but that this everything has an inherent personal characteristic. Hence "God" not "the universe" or whatever. God being the universe and everything that exists beyond it. Would the universe exist if there were nothing to perceive it? If yes then who would be asking the question? I believe the experience of God exists as a unitive state between subject and object. Why God is not rational is because the rational mind cannot comprehend it. A subsystem cannot comprehend that which is meta to it.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Aedan]
    #17781143 - 02/11/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phoenician said:
Would the universe exist if there were nothing to perceive it? If yes then who would be asking the question?




Who says there's a question being asked?


--------------------


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Registered: 05/12/08
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Loc: Northland, New Zealand. Flag
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17781157 - 02/11/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Ok now, seriousness, I demand seriousness. We're talking about adults with imaginary friends here.




So, what happens when you are really afraid? What higher function than prayer does a true atheist have?


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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Aedan]
    #17781171 - 02/11/13 12:32 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Phoenician said:
I would define God as everything, yes, but that this everything has an inherent personal characteristic. Hence "God" not "the universe" or whatever. God being the universe and everything that exists beyond it. Would the universe exist if there were nothing to perceive it? If yes then who would be asking the question? I believe the experience of God exists as a unitive state between subject and object. Why God is not rational is because the rational mind cannot comprehend it. A subsystem cannot comprehend that which is meta to it.




If we can't comprehend it, then why do think it exists?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #17781178 - 02/11/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:

So, what happens when you are really afraid? What higher function than prayer does a true atheist have?




What people believe when they're afraid has no bearing on weather "god" exists or not.  When I'm afraid, I'm afraid.  But I don't make up imaginary friends.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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