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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #18136733 - 04/19/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

You hang with a confused crowed, that has mistaken agnosticism for atheism.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18136738 - 04/19/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

You hang with liars and losers who believe anything that comforts them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #18136745 - 04/19/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
From the atheists I know they don't make final conclusions on god. In other words they don't say there is no god.  They just don't believe it exists because of lack of evidence. :shrug: That's logical




This is how pretty much every atheist is. Teknix takes issue with saying that god is unlikely with all given evidence available to us, as if that's making a final conclusion.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18136748 - 04/19/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I'm very aware of that. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18136796 - 04/19/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
From the atheists I know they don't make final conclusions on god. In other words they don't say there is no god.  They just don't believe it exists because of lack of evidence. :shrug: That's logical




This is how pretty much every atheist is. Teknix takes issue with saying that god is unlikely with all given evidence available to us, as if that's making a final conclusion.





Then you don't know any real atheist. You also have no reason to claim such an association. More like a bunch of wannabe's.


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18136799 - 04/19/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
From the atheists I know they don't make final conclusions on god. In other words they don't say there is no god.  They just don't believe it exists because of lack of evidence. :shrug: That's logical




This is how pretty much every atheist is. Teknix takes issue with saying that god is unlikely with all given evidence available to us, as if that's making a final conclusion.





Then you don't know any real atheist. You also have no reason to claim such an association.



I am a real atheist. You don't know any real atheists, you just know what you think atheism is.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18136819 - 04/19/13 06:18 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

You think yourself to be an atheist in a very broad and general term that doesn't acknowledge agnosticism and try to paint a black and white picture in false dichotomy and inconsistency.


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18136830 - 04/19/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You think yourself to be an atheist in a very broad and general term that doesn't acknowledge agnosticism and try to paint a black and white picture in false dichotomy and inconsistency.



I don't know what you're trying to say here. Most atheists can be considered agnostics as well, in the most technical and strict definition, but in terms of practicality I am an atheist. For all practical purposes I am a full atheist. If some evidence were given to me that made agnosticism look more correct, I would lean that way but as it is right now I see no evidence whatsoever that suggests theism is true so I am an a-theist.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18136858 - 04/19/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

why atheist? It comes with the irrational polarity of the extreme.

(at the head of the ship)


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18136969 - 04/19/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

A-theist means not-theist. You're putting an "irrational polarity" onto the term that isn't there. A-theist means I am not a theist at this current moment because all the available evidence lacks a suggestion of theism. If some evidence that makes me think a god is even possible were to surface, I would be an agnostic because I would have some reason to think god might be possible. As it is not, there's nothing logical to suggest that a god is possible or probable and as such I am for all practical intents and purposes non-theistic or an atheist.

This has been explained to you ad nauseum, you just ignore the explanation or try to twist it to fit your ideas.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18136978 - 04/19/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Yah, that is what you are saying, but in reality it is the negation of a belief, or a disbelief, or belief in the absence of. Both are equally polarities of the extreme. The purported median between the extreme polar opposites is agnosticism. (inconclusive, not belief nor disbelief)



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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18136997 - 04/19/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

It's not just the negation of the belief, it's being entirely without the belief because I don't deem it a logical or necessary belief. Being a-theistic just means you don't think there is a need for theism. If you're agnostic, you're uncertain. I'm not uncertain, with all the available evidence I have it is obvious to me that there is no suggestion of theism outside of the human mind. But if evidence arose which made the belief in theism seem logical I would change my position.

I'm not being extreme, I'm being rational.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18137004 - 04/19/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

You can argue a particular stance within atheism, but it doesn't take away from what atheism represents as a whole. (the particular stance you are arguing isn't even fully atheist, but a mix of the median and the extreme)


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18137015 - 04/19/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You can argue a particular stance within atheism, but it doesn't take away from what atheism represents as a whole. (the particular stance you are arguing isn't even fully atheist, but a mix of the median and the extreme)



No what I'm saying represents how atheists actually feel. You're presenting a false idea of what atheism is and acting like that represents the whole. Most, if not all, atheists would change their position with sufficient evidence.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18137040 - 04/19/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Only in a false dichotomy you could divide peoples stances between theist and atheist. It doesn't accurately represent reality, fanciful thinking at best.


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18137058 - 04/19/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Me labeling my own belief has nothing to do with dividing people's stances.

It's not a false dichotomy. You can be either theist or atheist. If you're unsure, you're an agnostic. It's a spectrum which includes all the possible permutations and shades of these beliefs. I don't see how this is fanciful or doesn't represent reality. :shrug:

What do you suppose there is in this case other than theism, atheism and agnosticism? Are you arguing that there's another possible position I'm ignoring?


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18137074 - 04/19/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

That definition is broad, and not useable to discuss particulars, semantics, stances or differentiate beliefs and non-beliefs.

You can call yourself atheist in a broad sense, but that has nothing to do with the argument of it being the only rational position.

You are not evidence of rationality, sorry.

:shrug:


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18137120 - 04/19/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I am not evidence of rationality? :lol: That statement makes no sense.

Atheism is the only rational position because any other position involves asserting things which there is no real evidence for.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18137142 - 04/19/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
I am not evidence of rationality? :lol: That statement makes no sense.

Atheism is the only rational position because any other position involves asserting things which there is no real evidence for.





Only in your false dichotomy, as I have already said.

Agnosticism isn't believing either way. How is leaving the answer unknown an assertion?

It is a silly question.

God can be defined however one chooses to define it.


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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18137168 - 04/19/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I don't have a false dichotomy. You refuse to even state what you mean by that. There is a dichotomy, you can either believe or not believe. Agnosticism is not taking up a position either way.

You can be uncertain about anything. For example, solipsism is an interesting philosophical exercise but it's not practical or rational. The same goes for agnosticism. You can be uncertain, and technically no one can ever know if it is true or not but for practical purposes you can be a-theistic.

I'm not saying you can't define god however you want, I'm saying that's stupid to do. Calling God "everything," for example is possible but it doesn't lend credibility to the idea nor does it add evidence.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.




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