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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: PsilyPhily]
#18132060 - 04/18/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PsilyPhily said:
For those who don't know, Agnostic is basically saying I am an atheist who is open to the fact there are many things we do not understand and maybe never will so to rule anything out is ignorance.
Yup, that's what atheists say too. Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. As I've said before in the thread, i think that most self-identifying atheists and self-identifying agnostics, pretty much have the same views regarding god.
Are you a theist? Yes or no?
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132064 - 04/18/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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What claim was that?
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132072 - 04/18/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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The one you've conveniently forgotten in just a few posts.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18132070 - 04/18/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
PsilyPhily said:
For those who don't know, Agnostic is basically saying I am an atheist who is open to the fact there are many things we do not understand and maybe never will so to rule anything out is ignorance.
Yup, that's what atheists say too. Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. As I've said before in the thread, i think that most self-identifying atheists and self-identifying agnostics, pretty much have the same views regarding god.
Are you a theist? Yes or no?
One can hold both views, but as far as definitions are concerned they aren't the same. Atheist =/= agnostic.
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132078 - 04/18/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: The one you've conveniently forgotten in just a few posts. 
Nope, you solved it already.
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132088 - 04/18/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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There is a "belief" there is no god. - atheism
or
You don't "believe" there is a god. - agnosticism
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132089 - 04/18/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's true, I've corrected your mistake.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132094 - 04/18/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: There is a "belief" there is no god. - atheism
or
You don't "believe" there is a god. - agnosticism

This has nothing to do with your claim as I stated before.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132099 - 04/18/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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What claim?
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132102 - 04/18/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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That to be an atheist you must be sure there is no god rather than just believe there is no god(s).
I asked for the dictionary version you said proves what you stated. I'm still waiting.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132126 - 04/18/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
That to be an atheist you must be sure there is no god rather than just believe there is no god(s).
I asked for the dictionary version you said proves what you stated. I'm still waiting.
So are u saying an atheist must have faith to believe there is not a god?
Atheism concludes that there is no god, with belief, not with science or rationality or logic.
Get it?
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132145 - 04/18/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not saying anything. You and I were discussing what the dictionary says as to a definition of an atheist. Get it? 
Still waiting for you to provide that definition you think exists.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132150 - 04/18/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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You already posted it.
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132161 - 04/18/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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fos
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18132170 - 04/18/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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No just agnostic, I can't believe anything without hard evidence.
It just seems that science is pointing towards something at play.. I wouldn't guess what because I need the proof but modern physics really seems to be proving that we are either very very lucky to exist (that's really putting it lightly too..) or that there is some divine force at work.
I watched a video today about the 'cosmological constant' Which basically shows that either we are very lucky because our physical laws are the way they are. (even the finest change would not allow a universe to exist) Or it states we live in a multi-verse and so we are just living in a universe that was one of very few that had the exact right physical forces to be able to even have anything but a cloud of primordial soup..
I feel I should be getting harsh on you two but I cut it out before posting.. You are lucky because I had some killer arguments to keep you both quite.
Phil.
-------------------- "If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment." β Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991 "Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract, good effort though."
Phil.
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: PsilyPhily] 1
#18132181 - 04/18/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think I'm terrified.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18132375 - 04/18/13 10:08 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
fos
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clam_dude
stranger in astrange land

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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: PsilyPhily]
#18132389 - 04/18/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
PsilyPhily said: No just agnostic, I can't believe anything without hard evidence.
It just seems that science is pointing towards something at play.. I wouldn't guess what because I need the proof but modern physics really seems to be proving that we are either very very lucky to exist (that's really putting it lightly too..) or that there is some divine force at work.
I watched a video today about the 'cosmological constant' Which basically shows that either we are very lucky because our physical laws are the way they are. (even the finest change would not allow a universe to exist) Or it states we live in a multi-verse and so we are just living in a universe that was one of very few that had the exact right physical forces to be able to even have anything but a cloud of primordial soup..
I feel I should be getting harsh on you two but I cut it out before posting.. You are lucky because I had some killer arguments to keep you both quite.
Phil.
I didn't ask if you were agnostic. I asked if you are a theist - yes or no?
Get harsh on me. If science discovers some kind of underlying intelligence, or "god", so be it. I, like you can't believe anything without evidence. That's why I'm no a theist. Therefore I'm an atheist.
So, are you a theist?
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: johnm214]
#18132417 - 04/18/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
falcon said: Well why call yourself someone that doesn't think that there is a God, i.e. an Atheist and then qualify it with the provision that you're not sure?
That's not what an atheist is. Atheism refers to one's belief in, rather than the existance of, god. To say your an atheist is to say you do not have a belief in god. A newborn would be an atheist, as would someone who is convinced there is not god, as would someone who doesn't know if there's a god but doesn't believe in one. Essentially all atheists are of the last type, including all the famous authors/speakers.
Quote:
Icelander said: Actually you might have a point here. The 100% assurance there is no god is illogical imo. So if atheists include this group as members at least part of that stance is illogical.
Yes, but then that has nothing to do with atheism. Included in atheism are people who are sure there is no god, and these people are irrational when applied to god in the general sense. This says nothing about the rationality of being an atheist, only of being a special kind of atheist (one that doesn't tend to exist in practice, I've never met one).
It's a bad analogy, to have a "belief" that there isn't a god, you would first have to an idea that there is a god or a concept or idea of what god is.
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18132425 - 04/18/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
PsilyPhily said: No just agnostic, I can't believe anything without hard evidence.
It just seems that science is pointing towards something at play.. I wouldn't guess what because I need the proof but modern physics really seems to be proving that we are either very very lucky to exist (that's really putting it lightly too..) or that there is some divine force at work.
I watched a video today about the 'cosmological constant' Which basically shows that either we are very lucky because our physical laws are the way they are. (even the finest change would not allow a universe to exist) Or it states we live in a multi-verse and so we are just living in a universe that was one of very few that had the exact right physical forces to be able to even have anything but a cloud of primordial soup..
I feel I should be getting harsh on you two but I cut it out before posting.. You are lucky because I had some killer arguments to keep you both quite.
Phil.
I didn't ask if you were agnostic. I asked if you are a theist - yes or no?
Get harsh on me. If science discovers some kind of underlying intelligence, or "god", so be it. I, like you can't believe anything without evidence. That's why I'm no a theist. Therefore I'm an atheist.
So, are you a theist?
False dichotomy, what's that now like 7?
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