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JoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix] 1
#18119667 - 04/16/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Well, there isn't any evidence for that conclusion, plain and simple. Explain all you want, it doesn't mean anything without evidence.
I didn't even give you an answer and you're still parroting the one point you think your argument hinges upon.
There will never be evidence that unicorns don't exist SO YOU CAN NEVER TELL ME THEY DON'T EXIST, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY AREN'T REAL!
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
#18119690 - 04/16/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can't really say unicorns don't exist in the entire universe, only within the sample space which is earth. Likely it is a story, but our minds have been known to manifest our current situation/reality from our thoughts, just as every invention was once a thought and even more particularly an idea.
Do you think it is outside of the realm of possibilities that a horse could be genetically modified to grow a horn?
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JoieDeVivre
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18119718 - 04/16/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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That wouldn't be a unicorn it would be a genetically modified horse.
-------------------- Sapere aude "We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."
UBUNTU- I am because we are.
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nurazz
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18119719 - 04/16/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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unicorns exist - they are just deformed horses whose penises grew on the top of their head, same applies to everything that is being talked about in this thread.
excluding the Almighty Atheismo.
Atheismo be Praised.
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18119753 - 04/16/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: You can't really say unicorns don't exist in the entire universe, only within the sample space which is earth. Likely it is a story, but our minds have been known to manifest our current situation/reality from our thoughts, just as every invention was once a thought and even more particularly an idea.
Do you think it is outside of the realm of possibilities that a horse could be genetically modified to grow a horn?

You mean magically genetically modified right?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (04/16/13 05:59 PM)
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nurazz
nurazz


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18119796 - 04/16/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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of course it is magic, don't be silly.
but I do agree, with an infinate universe we kinda have to leave all options open to be subjected to eternal change.
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: nurazz]
#18119804 - 04/16/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I wish I had some eternal change.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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clam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18120066 - 04/16/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
Quote:
clam_dude said: Yes! Tyson is agnostic, and can rightly call himself that. I have no problem with that. My problem is with his definition of atheist (as someone who goes around talking about atheism all the time). Do you agree that that's not a good definition of "atheist"? I don't know why we're still talking about this. I don't think you listen to anything i say.
How do you know he doesn't have more reasons? That could be but a single example as to the why.
IE; People doing what you are doing right now . . . (making bare and false statements based without evidence. The intent seems to cause controversy and get attention.)
The only reason he gave was that atheists are out talking about it. That's what he said. He never said anything about a "why" question. He might think it's a stupid question for all you know. maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say, at no fault of my own.
And again, what the hell statement did I make without evidence? Again, I'm accused of something, and there is no example.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
Edited by clam_dude (04/16/13 07:05 PM)
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clam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18120122 - 04/16/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Well, there isn't any evidence for that conclusion, plain and simple. Explain all you want, it doesn't mean anything without evidence.
Do you have a learning disorder? I'm not trying to be insulting. It's just that, in the context of this debate, it would be nice to know.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
Edited by clam_dude (04/16/13 07:07 PM)
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18120123 - 04/16/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
teknix said:
Quote:
clam_dude said: Yes! Tyson is agnostic, and can rightly call himself that. I have no problem with that. My problem is with his definition of atheist (as someone who goes around talking about atheism all the time). Do you agree that that's not a good definition of "atheist"? I don't know why we're still talking about this. I don't think you listen to anything i say.
How do you know he doesn't have more reasons? That could be but a single example as to the why.
IE; People doing what you are doing right now . . . (making bare and false statements based without evidence. The intent seems to cause controversy and get attention.)
The only reason he gave was that atheists are out talking about it. That's what he said. He never said anything about a "why" question. He might think it's a stupid question for all you know.
And again, what the hell statement did I make without evidence? Again, I'm accused of something, and there is no example.
You said that atheism is the only rational position, and claim it is because there isn't evidence for a god, when that is using absence of evidence as evidence of absence, and you really have no real reason to conclude atheism as the only rational.
So you have one reason, and it seems to apply to your current situation. The only fact that matters is that he claims agnosticism as his position, and you have one reason, of possibly many, as to why. (As your arguments exemplify the reason)
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clam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18120140 - 04/16/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: You can't really say unicorns don't exist in the entire universe, only within the sample space which is earth. Likely it is a story, but our minds have been known to manifest our current situation/reality from our thoughts, just as every invention was once a thought and even more particularly an idea.
Do you think it is outside of the realm of possibilities that a horse could be genetically modified to grow a horn?

yeah, so go believing in unicorns then. It's a free country.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
Edited by clam_dude (04/16/13 07:09 PM)
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18120153 - 04/16/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't believe nor do I disbelieve. What would be the purpose?
You built a false dichotomy, amongst other things . . .
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clam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18120181 - 04/16/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: I don't believe nor do I disbelieve. What would be the purpose?
Yeah, so maybe there are unicorns and maybe there aren't. But what are you going to do with that information? Is that an excuse to believe in unicorns? Seriously, this is just nothing more than an inability to listen.
We have all said so many times that, sure unicorns "could" exist somewhere in the universe. SO WHAT??
if it doesn't effect our lives here on earth, then how does it matter?
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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clam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18120183 - 04/16/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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If I stop responding to you, teknix, don't be surprised.
-------------------- "I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18120393 - 04/16/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh, I'm not surprised, it wouldn't be the first time some one clammed up when confronted with the truth.
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix] 1
#18120477 - 04/16/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18120628 - 04/16/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
clam_dude said:
Quote:
teknix said: I don't believe nor do I disbelieve. What would be the purpose?
Yeah, so maybe there are unicorns and maybe there aren't. But what are you going to do with that information? Is that an excuse to believe in unicorns? Seriously, this is just nothing more than an inability to listen.
We have all said so many times that, sure unicorns "could" exist somewhere in the universe. SO WHAT??
if it doesn't effect our lives here on earth, then how does it matter?
Your attacking a strawman, believing in unicorns isn't my position.
So then, a god could exist and you don't have much of an argument from there. To me it seems likely that you are more inclined towards agnosticism than atheism.
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yeah


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
#18120697 - 04/16/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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this thread is dildos
--------------------
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Icelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: yeah] 1
#18120716 - 04/16/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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 The shroomery at it's best. A zillion repeat posts saying nothing. We rock.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Vaipen
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Diploid]
#18121786 - 04/17/13 01:36 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: You cannot think about thinking. Think about it :-)
I don't know where in the world you get this notion, but anyone who can't think about thinking has a cognitive deficit. Most children start thinking about thinking when they're just starting to develop reason. Even retards can do it. Hell, I suspect even some of the higher non-human animals can do it too.
If you can't, see a doctor, perhaps? 
I'll ignore the personalism.
I'll give you this idea. I took it from Alan Watts.
'You cannot touch your left fingertip with your right fingertip. You cannot bite your own teeth. '
In the same way you cannot think about thinking. When you think about thinking, you are thinking. In the case of the fingertip, who is to say with which fingertip you are touching the other tip? Is the left tip touching the right or vice versa? And which tooth is biting the other? The upper one or the lower one?
Self-reflective consciousness has the same issue. When you think about thinking itself, you are thinking. So what part is the one having the thought, the part where you think about thinking, or the part where you think about thinking about thinking.
Alan Watts also mentioned in a lecture 'are you doing it or is it doing you'? Are you the thinker or the thought thought off?
There is no way to think about thinking. It is a paradox. You might as well put two mirrors facing each other and, like all kids do at some point, try to see infinity by sort of peeking alongside the opposing mirrors. But invariably the reflections bend out of sight.
Thinking is a process that by definition of self-reflective consciousness precedes any other consideration. You cannot turn your thoughts off and then think about what thinking is. You also cannot think and then shut yourself off so you escape the superceding rule. There is no way to get rid of the process and still have a thought.
As you do it, it does you.
With my deep gratitude for Alan Watts.
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